The Yard (15th & Cuming)

[omahahawk]

I'm not sure why you seem to think this is a bad thing Linkin.  Granted, another Nines or 22 floors would be preferable and even the Saddle Creek guys went on record stating they preferred a permanent development.  But do you really think it will still be just a courtyard in 5 years? For the time being it seems better than the empty lot it is now.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I bet it could still be a courtyard in five years. The profits from beer sales could be pretty sweet for NewStreet. They did take out a 10 year permit.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20101012/N ... or-go-slow

Residents and businesses are very concerned that this 10-year empty lot permit could derail the vision for North Downtown. And they are absolutely right to be concerned.

Any "temporary" permit given should be in two, maybe three year increments, so the city can reconsider market conditions and encourage the owner to develop.

NewStreet is a huge, corporate land developer. They are not thinking of what is best for the neighborhood. They are holding out to maximize their profits (at the neighborhood and City's expense) so their chief executives can line their pockets as much as possible.

[DTO Luv]

I'm not sure why you seem to think this is a bad thing Linkin.  Granted, another Nines or 22 floors would be preferable and even the Saddle Creek guys went on record stating they preferred a permanent development.  But do you really think it will still be just a courtyard in 5 years? For the time being it seems better than the empty lot it is now.

I think it will be in place much longer than that. I work in North DT now and I really do not see the area changing much in the next decade. Many of the projects in the area now have been urban blunders on many levels, and this just sets further precedence. The Hilton is an atrocious waste of land as compared to the Marriott design. Not even considering the the height but much of hotels property is dedicated to little used surface parking. Removing commercial and retail space from the stadium was incredibly short sighted. It's not as if there is a shortage of parking in the area, but there are now that many fewer retail/commercial opportunities in NDT. The idiotic idea that a triangular lot is somehow "dead space", (but yet a prime location? ) only usable for a sweetheart deal for an ice cream shop, further shows no one in charge here is looking at the big picture of what NDT could have been. MECA seems to think they can never get rid of their surface lots. And now we'll have a "temporary" place holder with The Yard.  I'm realistic about the economy's effect on development but I see the area floundering long term (at least as a true urban neighborhood) due to the lack of cohesive vision for the area. What it is now is a wanna-be OKC.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Wow. Well said, D'Shawn.

I agree there has been a complete lack of cohesive vision. I really wish the 2005 North Downtown Master plan was able to actually get the city to put into effect serious design and infill guidelines for the district. This also an example of how a revised tax code could work wonders - penalizing landowners who sit on vacant or surface parking lots and rewarding them for developing multi-story, mixed use projects.

This makes me think of Portland's Pearl District. Look at what has happened there in the span of a decade. Yes, it was different economic times, but I doubt that city's government would have granted a ten year open lot permit for a huge two-square block site.

I'm wondering how things would be different if we had the first or second phase of the streetcar in place or being built, which should have happened years ago.

Why are there such roadblocks to progress in Omaha?

[OmahaBen]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20101012/N ... or-go-slow

Residents and businesses are very concerned that this 10-year empty lot permit could derail the vision for North Downtown. And they are absolutely right to be concerned.

Any "temporary" permit given should be in two, maybe three year increments, so the city can reconsider market conditions and encourage the owner to develop.

NewStreet is a huge, corporate land developer. They are not thinking of what is best for the neighborhood. They are holding out to maximize their profits (at the neighborhood and City's expense) so their chief executives can line their pockets as much as possible.

I agree 10 years is too many for a temporary permit, and any temporary permit should've been done on probably a 3-5 year basis.

I even agree that they're holding out to maximize their profits. My issue is I don't see what's wrong with that. I think anyone that goes in to business wants to make a living. They own the land outright, and notwithstanding the god awful Kelo decision, they should be free to develop the land at their leisure.

As much as people want to see growth, the points they make (god awful economy, huge gluts in the office space and condo markets, tight construction lending market, etc.) are all valid reasons to hold off.

[S33]

Who would have ever thought that a business would aim to maximize it's profits with the assets it rightfully owns. I also do not seeing why an outdoor venue in North Downtown is such a problem. Summer time and baseball doesn't equal sitting in a booth in a bar a block away from the stadium. I think we and the north downtown neighborhood will live to see another sunrise with or without "The Yard."

Once again, this is another example of the unwillingness to compromise on ANYTHING from the "mixed-use" crowd.

So, when all else fails, let's just panic.

[Big E]

Once again, this is another example of the unwillingness to compromise on ANYTHING from the "mixed-use" crowd.

Compromise?  So far that crowd has been completely and totally ignored in nearly every aspect of north downtown's development.

[S33]

Once again, this is another example of the unwillingness to compromise on ANYTHING from the "mixed-use" crowd.

Compromise?  So far that crowd has been completely and totally ignored in nearly every aspect of north downtown's development.

Just be sure not to let anyone come around and tell you how to run your business and utilize your assets. Coming from a small business owner, reaping the benefits of an open, capitalistic market, I find many of your arguments ironic and contradicting to your own interests.

(if I am correct from previous conversations that you are, in fact, a business owner)

[Big E]

I'm a small business owner that doesn't live in a dreamworld that never has and never will exist, and wouldn't work anyway.

It's only a free market if everyone is playing by the same set of rules.  Any unregulated free market will inevitably cease to exist once the major players get together and stifle competition - which always has and always will happen barring government regulation.

Frankly, I'd do it myself given the opportunity.  This doesn't even take in to consideration the willingness to completely and totally |expletive| over any and all that get in the way of said goal.

Besides, this conversation is about development ordinances.  Things like fire codes, plumbing, bathrooms, zoning, easements, etc.

Making the jump from this (which you seem to agree with in your own backyard) to fascism is a little extreme, don't you think?

[S33]

Making the jump from this (which you seem to agree with in your own backyard) to fascism is a little extreme, don't you think?

As I already said...

BigE, had I known your original analogy was in response to OFace, I would not have responded. I didn't agree with his post and wasn't supporting that position.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I'm reinserting the following post because it should never have been removed as it in noway singles out or insults any group or individual and pertains directly to the topic at hand: land use in North Downtown:

The truth, though, is that nobody really owns land. We live in a country with a government. If you want to purchase a secluded island and own it outright, then you can start your own society and build whatever you want there.

Land use affects every aspect of life, and can affect quality of life profoundly. What one person does with "their" land can affect their neighbor and their entire community.

Also, Big E, great point about the zoning ordinances that suburbanites "benefit" from being government regulations that just happen to jive with their ideology. There is no retort to that, and regulating land use in North Downtown is no different.

For you suburbanites, think of it in terms of somebody buying the subdivided parcel right next to your home. They don't want to build anything on it right now, because they're going to wait until building prices go down so they can save some dollars. In the meantime, they are just going to camp in a tent on the lot indefinitely, possibly for years to come.

Does that sound healthy for your neighborhood?

[OmahaJaysCU]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20101012/N ... or-go-slow

Residents and businesses are very concerned that this 10-year empty lot permit could derail the vision for North Downtown. And they are absolutely right to be concerned.

Any "temporary" permit given should be in two, maybe three year increments, so the city can reconsider market conditions and encourage the owner to develop.

NewStreet is a huge, corporate land developer. They are not thinking of what is best for the neighborhood. They are holding out to maximize their profits (at the neighborhood and City's expense) so their chief executives can line their pockets as much as possible.

I 100% agree.  The retail for Phase 3 of the Bluestone development is completely leased (not finalized completely though).  Demand for affordable (young professional type) housing in downtown is very high.  I would bet that a few hundred units of apartments with retail on the ground level would be a huge seller.  Like all developments right now, securing financing would be difficult.  But I feel like the demand is there.  

The Yard won't ever turn into anything else.  I would bet a ton of money on it.  Beer revenues from the CWS would be massive.  Costs to maintain the property for Newstreet would be very low.  By next June, they could probably cover all of their losses on the property through just 1 CWS.  This is exactly what the neighborhood does not need.  I do think that there should be some type of public greenspace in NDT.  But a giant fenced in area is not the answer.

[OmahaJaysCU]

To address NDT as a whole.  I think the biggest hindrance to development right now is the diversity of ownership among all NDT properties.  This gives an unfair advantage to current landowners.  Developer X can try and buy parcels Y and Z, but the owner of land W now has the power to hold out and list the property at more than its worth.  This property, given its common ownership, can be very attractive to potential investors.  If Newstreet isn't going to do anything, they need to sell it.

[OmahaBen]

Demand for affordable (young professional type) housing in downtown is very high.  I would bet that a few hundred units of apartments with retail on the ground level would be a huge seller.

If you really wanted to bet, go try to secure a loan and finance such a project yourself. If it's such a sure fire seller, I'm sure you'd have no problem obtaining financing.

Or is this like most other "bets" on this forum, where people only want to bet other people's money?

Besides, I think Newstreet admitted that apartments would probably be in demand in the last fishwrap article. But they don't want to build an apartment building and deal with residential tenants rather than owners. Frankly, I don't blame them. I've lived in 3 different apartment complexes over the last 5 years, and in 2 of the 3 the tenants treat the building like ****.

Like all developments right now, securing financing would be difficult.  But I feel like the demand is there.

Again, the question is demand for what.

The Yard won't ever turn into anything else.  I would bet a ton of money on it.

Sure you would. So long as it was other people's money.

[Big E]

I think the pot shots at the plan are misguided, however.

Let me rephrase that:

I'm all for the plan.  I think the lack of any actual ordinances or legislation to implement the plan is the problem.

[S33]

And have you tried looking for affordable apartments that cater to young professionals in downtown?  Because you won't find much.  Meanwhile, projects like 22 Floors are sold out.

I remember looking a few years back - there ain't shyt, at least nothing worth the money they are charging. I know as of last year there were a couple developers toying with the idea of more affordable options, however, the locations weren't exactly "prime."

[OmahaJaysCU]

And have you tried looking for affordable apartments that cater to young professionals in downtown?  Because you won't find much.  Meanwhile, projects like 22 Floors are sold out.

I remember looking a few years back - there ain't shyt, at least nothing worth the money they are charging. I know as of last year there were a couple developers toying with the idea of more affordable options, however, the locations weren't exactly "prime."

Honest question though to be devil's advocate, given the extreme lack of development in NDT, is 15th and Cuming a prime location?

[S33]

And have you tried looking for affordable apartments that cater to young professionals in downtown?  Because you won't find much.  Meanwhile, projects like 22 Floors are sold out.

I remember looking a few years back - there ain't shyt, at least nothing worth the money they are charging. I know as of last year there were a couple developers toying with the idea of more affordable options, however, the locations weren't exactly "prime."

Honest question though to be devil's advocate, given the extreme lack of development in NDT, is 15th and Cuming a prime location?

Right now, I would say no. But I also have no idea what the occupancy rate is closer to the Old Market. If it's high enough, I would guess they could charge prime prices...

[ricko]

Don't kid yourself.  Development of this type is oftentimes rife with politics, back-room deals, sweetheart agreements, etc.. Frankly, I'd rather explore that angle than pretend that life is one great big group hug over the next big box-store being built on 204th St.

[Erik]

Don't kid yourself.  Development of this type is oftentimes rife with politics, back-room deals, sweetheart agreements, etc.. Frankly, I'd rather explore that angle than pretend that life is one great big group hug over the next big box-store being built on 204th St.

LOL..

[OmahaBen]

And have you tried looking for affordable apartments that cater to young professionals in downtown?  Because you won't find much.  Meanwhile, projects like 22 Floors, and Tip Top are sold out.  In this climate its difficult to get projects financed period, regardless of how "sure things" they are.

Seeing as I am the pure definition of a young professional as a just-out-of-school lawyer, who until a few months ago lived within walking distance of downtown, yes, yes I did.

And my point still stands, I don't blame people for not wanting to build "affordable apartments" even if the demand is there when they get trashed by their tenants - the TipTop, for instance, is really nothing but an off-campus dormitory for Creighton and it shows. My wife (then fiancee) and I paid more for a better apartment, and didn't regret it.

[Brad]

They voted on the yard today so now there will be a "re-vote" in December.

[omahahawk]

Yep, and it will be interesting to see how it turns out considering the guy who called for the re-vote was the same guy who cast the deciding vote the first time.

[liquid]

Total victory for the neighborhood, albeit far from the announcement of a 4-6 story mixed-use development. Sometime soon, I hope! Even so, glad someone is actually listening to the people who live and work in the area. Or is it just the strong-arms of MECA + NCAA? I'll take it either way.

Also, I obviously don't post much on these forums but have been enjoying them for years. This project in particular seems like it would get more "action," so to speak. What gives?

On that note, notice how "Cuming" is misspelled in the thread title? Naughty.  :lol:

[OmahaBen]

They voted on the yard today so now there will be a "re-vote" in December.

So yeah...I'm left wondering what the NCAA threatened to do. Maybe re-votes are more common than I think, but it strikes me as odd.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Total victory!

From the OWH Article:

The developer says the project is a placeholder until the economy and north downtown can support a full development with offices, shops and housing.

Yes, a placeholder until the economy can support a full mixed-use development...

Meanwhile, NuStyle announces the development of 106 market rate apartments with ground floor retail Downtown...

[S33]

It's official!!! The Yard will now become The Parking Lot.

Prime Downtown Land To Become Parking Lot
http://www.ketv.com/news/25976540/detail.html

OMAHA, Neb. -- A 2 square-block piece of prime, undeveloped land in north downtown Omaha that could have been a brick-walled, open-air entertainment pavilion will instead become a parking lot, officials said.

Officials said the city and the developer agreed to a compromise that would transform it into a paved surface to park cars.

The developer said the site will still be called the yard and events will still be held there.

Officials told KETV that alcohol sales would not be allowed during the two-week College World Series, but would be allowed the rest of the year.

Members of the North Downtown business Association said they were satisfied with the design changes. They said they hoped the site would be further developed in the future.

"Alcohol sales would not be allowed during the two-week College World Series, but would be allowed the rest of the year"

Well, at least this^^^ makes sense... water-headed morons.

[justnick]

It's already a parking lot. Does this just mean it's getting paved?

[iamjacobm]

I remember when they had a master plan for north downtown.

[S33]

It's already a parking lot. Does this just mean it's getting paved?

Nothing gets by you  :)

[GetUrban]

It's already a parking lot. Does this just mean it's getting paved?

Build it, and they will park.

Omaha, we know how to pave, except our streets of course.

[justnick]

It's already a parking lot. Does this just mean it's getting paved?

Nothing gets by you  :)

Merely pointing out that our dear geniuses in Omaha News feel the need to do a story on how a parking lot is becoming a parking lot. Love them.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Funny how they made it seem like it was going to be this glorious, open-air entertainment pavilion... but in stead it will be a parking lot. When in reality, both options are virtually the same exact land use - which is the exact same land-use that exist right now, this very day, on that site.

Much ado about nothing.

Yes, iamjacobm, I remember when there was a master plan, too...

[GetUrban]

It's already a parking lot. Does this just mean it's getting paved?

Nothing gets by you  :)

Merely pointing out that our dear geniuses in Omaha News feel the need to do a story on how a parking lot is becoming a parking lot. Love them.

They're just giving credit where it is due. Our planning department deserves an award. The next "big story" will be whether the parking stalls are striped with white paint or yellow.

[Omababe]

Merely pointing out that our dear geniuses in Omaha News feel the need to do a story on how a parking lot is becoming a parking lot. Love them.

LOL, I wondered about that too! Must have been a slow news day! The station we had on (forget which one) emphasized that there may be some entertainment in the parking lot as well.

[Brad]

I have said it before, but I will say it again.  I really want a 5 story mixed use development.  

However until this economy turns around, The Yard was a much better option that what there now (85% grass field - 15% gravel "parking") or the proposed paved parking lot.  Besides the tax revenue that just disappeared (which I mentioned in a previous post) we also just lost a bunch of jobs.

People Making Money from a parking lot:
Engineer
concrete worker
parking lot attendant
snow plow

People Making Money from the yard:
Engineer
Architect
concrete worker
parking lot attendant
snow plow
landscapers
planning and event coordinators
tent rental companies
bartenders/waitstaff
clothing vender's
catering companies
maintenance staff
security
and many more...

If they didn't want a permanent beer garden, which I do not either, then fine give "The Yard" a 4 or 5 year permit rather than the 10 they initially gave them.  Omaha cant just throw money and upset off companies that have been great partners in the past.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

But Brad, it would seem to me that the more money that is being made with the property on a year-round basis, the more disincentive there is to develop it for its proper use in the hopefully near future.

[S33]

I'm going to let my house rot and deteriorate so I can maintain a healthy level of incentive to buy a new one.

[cdub]

I have said it before, but I will say it again.  I really want a 5 story mixed use development.  

However until this economy turns around, The Yard was a much better option that what there now (85% grass field - 15% gravel "parking") or the proposed paved parking lot.  Besides the tax revenue that just disappeared (which I mentioned in a previous post) we also just lost a bunch of jobs.

People Making Money from a parking lot:
Engineer
concrete worker
parking lot attendant
snow plow

People Making Money from the yard:
Engineer
Architect
concrete worker
parking lot attendant
snow plow
landscapers
planning and event coordinators
tent rental companies
bartenders/waitstaff
clothing vender's
catering companies
maintenance staff
security
and many more...

If they didn't want a permanent beer garden, which I do not either, then fine give "The Yard" a 4 or 5 year permit rather than the 10 they initially gave them.  Omaha cant just throw money and upset off companies that have been great partners in the past.

Then blame the great partners because they refused to do the project without beer.