North Downtown vs. Other Cities' Arena Districts
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North Downtown vs. Other Cities' Arena Districts
I'm certain this discussion has already taken place on this forum, but why the $&@! did Omaha not surround its arena with entertainment? North Downtown should stand for Nothing to Do. Other cities (OKC, KC, Lincoln) did/are doing it right, so why didn't we? This city's love affair with parking lots makes me insane. All we need now is a streetcar connecting all of them and we'll be set, right? Will one of the progressive thinkers on this site please run for public office!?!?
- skinzfan23
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I totally agree, yes, it has taken some time to develop the area, but the economy's struggles have led to some of this. ÂS33 wrote:I'm fairly certain that area entertainment has sprouted up out of nowhere in the "arena district", even in the face of the ever-popular, Old Market. Hang in there, sport.
Take a look at the difference in just a few years.
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qw9yqc ... orm=LMLTCC
Compared to:
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=41.266 ... orm=LMLTCC[/url]
- TitosBuritoBarn
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Give it time man. Out of all the new stadiums that have been built recently, I think you can find more examples of stadiums that had slim to nil in entertainment options sprout up around them. Dallas's...er...Arlington's new billion dollar stadium for the Cowboys, for example, is a nightlife dead zone surrounded by parking and a Walmart. The NY Mets' new Citi Field has an auto junk yard over the right field wall and parking lots and freeways behind all the others.
To the Lincoln homers on this forum (of which I'm an associate member), let's not brag...our arena is as much a reclaimed railroad yard grayfield as the UP Shops, ASARCO, Aaron Ferrer scrap metal yard/Quest Center location was. Â In Lincoln, current/former railroad tracks/yards lie to the north, west and south of the Pinnacle Bank Arena location. Â On the East side lies the almost three block (North to South) location of the main Post Office, which has/will have NO street presence, especially after their daily desk hours end, ie: giant black hole) and will not not move until it's duties are transferred to Omaha's P.O. Mail handling facility, a political third rail in Lincoln . Â The City Mission homeless shelter is just across the tracks to the west and Alter Scrap Metal yard is south of the primary development area. Â Announced plans by a private developer for ONE square block of new development adjacent to the new arena. Â Lots of "plans" for future development, including the Breslow Ice arena, without any solid commitments. Â Sounds like we're following the Quest Center North Downtown redevelopment plan word for word.
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I dont know how many of you remember or even know this but originally Omaha's arena was proposed just southwest of the Old Market. Â There were some renderings in the OWH.iamjacobm wrote:We also have a $174 million project recently announced literally right outside the front door.
Lincoln's arena would be like if Omaha put the arena in the Old Market. The Haymarket is an established area. North Downtown was a scrap yard a decade ago.
Give it some time.
I was ecstatic that we didn't build the arena near the Old Market... it would have decimated a large tract of good building stock. Â Instead, we've reclaimed an industrial wasteland... and the area around it is blossoming with new development to complement it.
Shoot for the Moon... if you miss, you'll land among the stars.
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It was an interesting concept and would have been a catalyst for the area southwest of the Old Market. Â It also would have solved the pesky problem of getting from the Arena to the Old Market...Stargazer wrote:I was ecstatic that we didn't build the arena near the Old Market... it would have decimated a large tract of good building stock. Instead, we've reclaimed an industrial wasteland... and the area around it is blossoming with new development to complement it.
Just saying...
That's a problem a short, first phase, trolley line along 10th Street would solve nicely (note the forthcoming, widened, Gene Leahy bridge furthers the cause as well). Â We're becoming a big enough city, we can stretch out a little... north downtown is accommodating that nicely (while eliminating that god awful wasteland which preceded it).
Shoot for the Moon... if you miss, you'll land among the stars.
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Of course, in the original proposal that area was supposed to have the 100,000 seat domed stadium, just north of Marina City. Â Oddly, no trolly was proposed...Stargazer wrote:That's a problem a short, first phase, trolley line along 10th Street would solve nicely (note the forthcoming, widened, Gene Leahy bridge furthers the cause as well). We're becoming a big enough city, we can stretch out a little... north downtown is accommodating that nicely (while eliminating that god awful wasteland which preceded it).
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- skinzfan23
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Whats the building in the Mattress Factory Parking Lot?
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- skinzfan23
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- skinzfan23
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Go to Google Earth and use the time slider tool. It's a cool feature that shows satellite imagery from the past.skinzfan23 wrote:Yes, that was the bridge to access the airport. It was still there while they were building the (Qwest)/ CenturyLink Center, before 10th St. was opened to traffic.Linkin5 wrote:So from what I can see, there used to be a viaduct that spanned over north downtown?
Abbott Drive used run along Riverfront Dr and connected up to 8th & 10th Streets.
1999:
Now today, it connects up to Cuming Street.
2011:
1999 vs 2011:
But after looking at both skinzfan23's and Brad's picture, all I can say is wow! That area looks completely different in those pictures.
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In terms of land-cover, the predominant type of development that North Downtown has seen has been the surface parking lot. Yes, over time that land-cover is being lessened, but, again, in terms of land cover alone, the area is certainly more a car-parking district than an "entertainment district."
Just food for thought as far as "how far we've come" since the photo from the First National Tower was taken.
And as for the old Abbott Drive viaduct, that's crazy to think about again. I was in high school at the time they were taking it down, but I still remember driving over all the old railroad tracks and past the metal-smelting plant on the way to pick up people at the airport.
Just food for thought as far as "how far we've come" since the photo from the First National Tower was taken.
And as for the old Abbott Drive viaduct, that's crazy to think about again. I was in high school at the time they were taking it down, but I still remember driving over all the old railroad tracks and past the metal-smelting plant on the way to pick up people at the airport.
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
- skinzfan23
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I still think that it has come a very long way in just a little over a decade. Â I can't think of any other midwestern city that has had this amount of public/private development in an area in this past decade.
I count 5 hotels (over 1,050 rooms), 1 convention center/18,300 seat arena, 24,000 seat baseball stadium, at least 5 restaurants (Mattress Factory, Goodnights pizza, Union Sports Bar and Grill, Ricks Boatyard, and Zestos), 2 condo towers (Riverfront Place), 1 corporate HQ's (Gallup), National Park service building, pedestrian bridge spanning over 3,000 feet, concert space (Film Streams), 3 retail stores (American Apparel, Urban Outfitters, The Dugout).
I agree that there are a few parking lots that will hopefully be replaced soon, but compared to other cities, and especially cities of Omaha's size, great strides have been made.
I count 5 hotels (over 1,050 rooms), 1 convention center/18,300 seat arena, 24,000 seat baseball stadium, at least 5 restaurants (Mattress Factory, Goodnights pizza, Union Sports Bar and Grill, Ricks Boatyard, and Zestos), 2 condo towers (Riverfront Place), 1 corporate HQ's (Gallup), National Park service building, pedestrian bridge spanning over 3,000 feet, concert space (Film Streams), 3 retail stores (American Apparel, Urban Outfitters, The Dugout).
I agree that there are a few parking lots that will hopefully be replaced soon, but compared to other cities, and especially cities of Omaha's size, great strides have been made.
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Yes, all those things exist, and I, too, am happy with how far the district has come -- but I'm still not without my admonitions for the district.
I guess it's a little bit of "is the glass half full or half empty" because it's all relative. Â Compared to its peer group in the US, yeah, maybe the glass is half full. Compared to even smaller cities abroad, the glass is almost completely empty. Â :yes:
I guess it's a little bit of "is the glass half full or half empty" because it's all relative. Â Compared to its peer group in the US, yeah, maybe the glass is half full. Compared to even smaller cities abroad, the glass is almost completely empty. Â :yes:
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
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Difficult to do, considering the "arena district" is a bit of an American phenomenon. But if we're trying to compare apples to apples (that is, a new/modern sports venue nestled in an established area of the city (keeping in mind, this is just one 20,000-capacity soccer stadium, not a 24,000-capacity baseball stadium+convention center+18,000-capacity arena, like Omaha has), then I think the Stade des Alpes in Grenoble, France is a nice case in point. The metro area of Grenoble is roughly 200,000 people SMALLER than that of Omaha. This recently-opened stadium is surrounded by established, dense, mixed use neighborhoods and immense park/open space. The stadium features robust transportation connections including light rail service and ample bicycle and pedestrian facilities that connect it to the surrounding neighborhoods.
Here's a Wikipedia photo:
And that's just one example that I basically pulled out of a hat. But sure, if you want to compare Omaha to Wichita and Akron, I don't know. Yeah, we probably look pretty good.
Here's a Wikipedia photo:
And that's just one example that I basically pulled out of a hat. But sure, if you want to compare Omaha to Wichita and Akron, I don't know. Yeah, we probably look pretty good.
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
Oh, you are off the Omaha sucks compared to other US cities train in favor of the Europe is so much better than the US?StreetsOfOmaha wrote: And that's just one example that I basically pulled out of a hat. But sure, if you want to compare Omaha to Wichita and Akron, I don't know. Yeah, we probably look pretty good.
It really is amazing, I think if you told any city that in a decade a new district could generate that kind of activity they would take it. Â NDT in another decade is going to be amazing.skinzfan23 wrote:I still think that it has come a very long way in just a little over a decade. I can't think of any other midwestern city that has had this amount of public/private development in an area in this past decade.
I count 5 hotels (over 1,050 rooms), 1 convention center/18,300 seat arena, 24,000 seat baseball stadium, at least 5 restaurants (Mattress Factory, Goodnights pizza, Union Sports Bar and Grill, Ricks Boatyard, and Zestos), 2 condo towers (Riverfront Place), 1 corporate HQ's (Gallup), National Park service building, pedestrian bridge spanning over 3,000 feet, concert space (Film Streams), 3 retail stores (American Apparel, Urban Outfitters, The Dugout).
I agree that there are a few parking lots that will hopefully be replaced soon, but compared to other cities, and especially cities of Omaha's size, great strides have been made.
That's not really a good comparison. That area had clearly been established for years before the stadium was even conceived. Try again.StreetsOfOmaha wrote:Difficult to do, considering the "arena district" is a bit of an American phenomenon. But if we're trying to compare apples to apples (that is, a new/modern sports venue nestled in an established area of the city (keeping in mind, this is just one 20,000-capacity soccer stadium, not a 24,000-capacity baseball stadium+convention center+18,000-capacity arena, like Omaha has), then I think the Stade des Alpes in Grenoble, France is a nice case in point. The metro area of Grenoble is roughly 200,000 people SMALLER than that of Omaha. This recently-opened stadium is surrounded by established, dense, mixed use neighborhoods and immense park/open space. The stadium features robust transportation connections including light rail service and ample bicycle and pedestrian facilities that connect it to the surrounding neighborhoods.
Here's a Wikipedia photo:
And that's just one example that I basically pulled out of a hat. But sure, if you want to compare Omaha to Wichita and Akron, I don't know. Yeah, we probably look pretty good.
OMA-->CHI-->NYC
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Axel, no. The fact that North Downtown was in the condition that it was prior to the "arena district" coming in is just another facet of how Omaha loses by comparison. And I'm not trying to pick on Omaha; you pushed me to give an example. This is America's problem, not just Omaha's.
It's not as simple as "oh, whose city's 'arena district' looks cooler?"
I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying, but no, that is not correct. When have I ever, repeat, ever said Omaha sucks compared to other US cities? Sure, there are innumerable examples of other US cities that are doing better in comparison. But their "successes," too, would seem humble in comparison to countries with societies that value urban living and nature alike. That's kind of the point we're getting at.joeglow wrote:Oh, you are off the Omaha sucks compared to other US cities train in favor of the Europe is so much better than the US?
It's not as simple as "oh, whose city's 'arena district' looks cooler?"
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
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Actually, the point of the original post in this thread is pretty much, why didn't Omaha surround the arena with entertainment? Â Comparing "successes" with countries "with societies that value urban living and nature alike...I'm assuming you're referring to Europe...where they preserve five hundred year old structures. Â Now, I enjoy bathrooms wedged into closets and well pretty much anywhere they can find a spare square foot, but....never mind. Â Let's just say success is in the eye of the beholder. Â Failure is as well.StreetsOfOmaha wrote:Axel, no. The fact that North Downtown was in the condition that it was prior to the "arena district" coming in is just another facet of how Omaha loses by comparison. And I'm not trying to pick on Omaha; you pushed me to give an example. This is America's problem, not just Omaha's.
I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying, but no, that is not correct. When have I ever, repeat, ever said Omaha sucks compared to other US cities? Sure, there are innumerable examples of other US cities that are doing better in comparison. But their "successes," too, would seem humble in comparison to countries with societies that value urban living and nature alike. That's kind of the point we're getting at.joeglow wrote:Oh, you are off the Omaha sucks compared to other US cities train in favor of the Europe is so much better than the US?
It's not as simple as "oh, whose city's 'arena district' looks cooler?"
- skinzfan23
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From the World Herald:
Billion-dollar transformation gets attention of Berkshire crowd
http://www.omaha.com/article/20120506/N ... hire-crowd
Billion-dollar transformation gets attention of Berkshire crowd
http://www.omaha.com/article/20120506/N ... hire-crowd
» Hot Shops Art Center, former mattress factory home to studios and galleries, 2001
» The CenturyLink Center (then called the Qwest Center), $291 million, completed in 2003
» Lewis & Clark Landing, a riverfront festival grounds replacing a lead refinery, $20 million, 2003
» Gallup campus, built in 2003, expanded in 2009, $108 million
» Hilton Omaha hotel, 2004, expanded in 2011, $107 million
» National Park Service's Midwest Regional Headquarters, $13 million, 2004
» Saddle Creek Records, including Slowdown music venue, Film Streams' Ruth Sokolof Theater, apartments and retail and restaurant bays, more than $10 million, 2006
» Mastercraft Furniture building, factory renovated into artist studios, offices, et al, $3 million-plus, 2006
» Bob Kerrey Pedestrian Bridge, $22 million, 2008
» Riverfront Place, two riverfront condominium towers, $68 million, 2006 and 2011
» 22 Floors, retail, restaurant and loft apartments, $3.9 million, 2009
» T.D. Ameritrade Park baseball stadium, home of the College World Series and Creighton University baseball, $131 million, 2011
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So when's the expiration date for using Gallup, Rick's Boatyard, etc in the "NDT is awesome" articles? A lot of these things (Gallup, CenturyLink, Rick's, etc) opened 9 years ago. Sure, they're great but it's getting close to sounding more like, "Remember when all that new stuff was being built in north downtown? that was so great, let's relive that through another article about suburbanites discovering life exists outside of 480."