North Downtown vs. Other Cities' Arena Districts

Failure · Post by **Failure** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:58 am

I'm certain this discussion has already taken place on this forum, but why the $&@! did Omaha not surround its arena with entertainment? North Downtown should stand for Nothing to Do. Other cities (OKC, KC, Lincoln) did/are doing it right, so why didn't we? This city's love affair with parking lots makes me insane. All we need now is a streetcar connecting all of them and we'll be set, right? Will one of the progressive thinkers on this site please run for public office!?!?

S33 · Post by **S33** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:03 pm

I'm fairly certain that area entertainment has sprouted up out of nowhere in the "arena district", even in the face of the ever-popular, Old Market. Hang in there, sport.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:23 pm

S33 wrote:I'm fairly certain that area entertainment has sprouted up out of nowhere in the "arena district", even in the face of the ever-popular, Old Market. Hang in there, sport.

I totally agree, yes, it has taken some time to develop the area, but the economy's struggles have led to some of this. Â

Take a look at the difference in just a few years.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qw9yqc ... orm=LMLTCC

Compared to:

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=41.266 ... orm=LMLTCC[/url]

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:18 pm

Give it time man. Out of all the new stadiums that have been built recently, I think you can find more examples of stadiums that had slim to nil in entertainment options sprout up around them. Dallas's...er...Arlington's new billion dollar stadium for the Cowboys, for example, is a nightlife dead zone surrounded by parking and a Walmart. The NY Mets' new Citi Field has an auto junk yard over the right field wall and parking lots and freeways behind all the others.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:04 pm

We've seen some nice developments since the CLink and TDA have been built. It takes time though, and Omaha has a ton of available space in N.Dowtown.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:23 pm

We also have a $174 million project recently announced literally right outside the front door.

Lincoln's arena would be like if Omaha put the arena in the Old Market. Â The Haymarket is an established area. Â North Downtown was a scrap yard a decade ago.

Give it some time.

l-dude · Post by **l-dude** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:54 pm

To the Lincoln homers on this forum (of which I'm an associate member), let's not brag...our arena is as much a reclaimed railroad yard grayfield as the UP Shops, ASARCO, Aaron Ferrer scrap metal yard/Quest Center location was. Â In Lincoln, current/former railroad tracks/yards lie to the north, west and south of the Pinnacle Bank Arena location. Â On the East side lies the almost three block (North to South) location of the main Post Office, which has/will have NO street presence, especially after their daily desk hours end, ie: giant black hole) and will not not move until it's duties are transferred to Omaha's P.O. Mail handling facility, a political third rail in Lincoln . Â The City Mission homeless shelter is just across the tracks to the west and Alter Scrap Metal yard is south of the primary development area. Â Announced plans by a private developer for ONE square block of new development adjacent to the new arena. Â Lots of "plans" for future development, including the Breslow Ice arena, without any solid commitments. Â Sounds like we're following the Quest Center North Downtown redevelopment plan word for word.

NovakOmaha · Post by **NovakOmaha** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:12 pm

iamjacobm wrote:We also have a $174 million project recently announced literally right outside the front door.

Lincoln's arena would be like if Omaha put the arena in the Old Market. The Haymarket is an established area. North Downtown was a scrap yard a decade ago.

Give it some time.

I dont know how many of you remember or even know this but originally Omaha's arena was proposed just southwest of the Old Market. Â There were some renderings in the OWH.

l-dude · Post by **l-dude** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:20 pm

I remember this quite well...David Sokol almost lost his political standing years earlier than it actually happened by chairing the committee that recommended this.

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:57 pm

I was ecstatic that we didn't build the arena near the Old Market... it would have decimated a large tract of good building stock. Â Instead, we've reclaimed an industrial wasteland... and the area around it is blossoming with new development to complement it.

NovakOmaha · Post by **NovakOmaha** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:23 pm

Stargazer wrote:I was ecstatic that we didn't build the arena near the Old Market... it would have decimated a large tract of good building stock. Instead, we've reclaimed an industrial wasteland... and the area around it is blossoming with new development to complement it.

It was an interesting concept and would have been a catalyst for the area southwest of the Old Market. Â It also would have solved the pesky problem of getting from the Arena to the Old Market...

Just saying...

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:35 pm

That's a problem a short, first phase, trolley line along 10th Street would solve nicely (note the forthcoming, widened, Gene Leahy bridge furthers the cause as well). Â We're becoming a big enough city, we can stretch out a little... north downtown is accommodating that nicely (while eliminating that god awful wasteland which preceded it).

NovakOmaha · Post by **NovakOmaha** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:44 pm

Stargazer wrote:That's a problem a short, first phase, trolley line along 10th Street would solve nicely (note the forthcoming, widened, Gene Leahy bridge furthers the cause as well). We're becoming a big enough city, we can stretch out a little... north downtown is accommodating that nicely (while eliminating that god awful wasteland which preceded it).

Of course, in the original proposal that area was supposed to have the 100,000 seat domed stadium, just north of Marina City. Â Oddly, no trolly was proposed...

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:54 pm

Yeah, the novelty of driving still young.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:08 am

It's a problem two working legs could defeat. People have no problem walking the 4 mile Vegas strip, but won't walk 300 yards from the Arena to Old Market. That, I'll never understand.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:23 pm

People like blood sausage, too. People are morons.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:43 pm

The secret ingredient is blood.

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:People like blood sausage, too. People are morons.

Nice 'Groundhog Day' reference.

byrdrules · Post by **byrdrules** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:38 am

S33 wrote:It's a problem two working legs could defeat. People have no problem walking the 4 mile Vegas strip, but won't walk 300 yards from the Arena to Old Market. That, I'll never understand.

I'm with you on that one, I always thought that little walk was rather enjoyable.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:20 pm

Sorry for the size of the picture, but here is another picture from when the First National Tower was being built, showing the North Downtown area. Â To me, it looks like an amazing change in just 10-12 years.

Post by **Brad** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:23 pm

Whats the building in the Mattress Factory Parking Lot?

Linkin5 · Post by **Linkin5** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:32 pm

That is insane the difference between then and now.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:42 pm

Totally different view, but here is one of your aerials Brad showing the district:

Linkin5 · Post by **Linkin5** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:45 pm

So from what I can see, there used to be a viaduct that spanned over north downtown?

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:48 pm

Linkin5 wrote:So from what I can see, there used to be a viaduct that spanned over north downtown?

Yes, that was the bridge to access the airport. It was still there while they were building the (Qwest)/ CenturyLink Center, before 10th St. was opened to traffic.

Post by **BRoss** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:01 pm

skinzfan23 wrote:
Linkin5 wrote:So from what I can see, there used to be a viaduct that spanned over north downtown?
Yes, that was the bridge to access the airport. It was still there while they were building the (Qwest)/ CenturyLink Center, before 10th St. was opened to traffic.

Go to Google Earth and use the time slider tool. It's a cool feature that shows satellite imagery from the past.

Abbott Drive used run along Riverfront Dr and connected up to 8th & 10th Streets.

1999:

Now today, it connects up to Cuming Street.

2011:

1999 vs 2011:

But after looking at both skinzfan23's and Brad's picture, all I can say is wow!

That area looks completely different in those pictures.

Tornado · Post by **Tornado** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:08 pm

Wow! What a dramatic change in the landscape. If you ever get frustrated at the number of new projects downtown or the speed of which land is developed downtown all you need to do is take a good look at that photo and come to your senses. Thanks for posting that.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:51 pm

In terms of land-cover, the predominant type of development that North Downtown has seen has been the surface parking lot. Yes, over time that land-cover is being lessened, but, again, in terms of land cover alone, the area is certainly more a car-parking district than an "entertainment district."

Just food for thought as far as "how far we've come" since the photo from the First National Tower was taken.

And as for the old Abbott Drive viaduct, that's crazy to think about again. I was in high school at the time they were taking it down, but I still remember driving over all the old railroad tracks and past the metal-smelting plant on the way to pick up people at the airport.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:10 pm

I still think that it has come a very long way in just a little over a decade. Â I can't think of any other midwestern city that has had this amount of public/private development in an area in this past decade.

I count 5 hotels (over 1,050 rooms), 1 convention center/18,300 seat arena, 24,000 seat baseball stadium, at least 5 restaurants (Mattress Factory, Goodnights pizza, Union Sports Bar and Grill, Ricks Boatyard, and Zestos), 2 condo towers (Riverfront Place), 1 corporate HQ's (Gallup), National Park service building, pedestrian bridge spanning over 3,000 feet, concert space (Film Streams), 3 retail stores (American Apparel, Urban Outfitters, The Dugout).

I agree that there are a few parking lots that will hopefully be replaced soon, but compared to other cities, and especially cities of Omaha's size, great strides have been made.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:06 pm

Yes, all those things exist, and I, too, am happy with how far the district has come -- but I'm still not without my admonitions for the district.

I guess it's a little bit of "is the glass half full or half empty" because it's all relative. Â Compared to its peer group in the US, yeah, maybe the glass is half full. Compared to even smaller cities abroad, the glass is almost completely empty. Â :yes:

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:33 pm

Name these cities streets

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:16 pm

Difficult to do, considering the "arena district" is a bit of an American phenomenon. But if we're trying to compare apples to apples (that is, a new/modern sports venue nestled in an established area of the city (keeping in mind, this is just one 20,000-capacity soccer stadium, not a 24,000-capacity baseball stadium+convention center+18,000-capacity arena, like Omaha has), then I think the Stade des Alpes in Grenoble, France is a nice case in point. The metro area of Grenoble is roughly 200,000 people SMALLER than that of Omaha. This recently-opened stadium is surrounded by established, dense, mixed use neighborhoods and immense park/open space. The stadium features robust transportation connections including light rail service and ample bicycle and pedestrian facilities that connect it to the surrounding neighborhoods.

Here's a Wikipedia photo:

And that's just one example that I basically pulled out of a hat. But sure, if you want to compare Omaha to Wichita and Akron, I don't know. Yeah, we probably look pretty good.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:41 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote: And that's just one example that I basically pulled out of a hat. But sure, if you want to compare Omaha to Wichita and Akron, I don't know. Yeah, we probably look pretty good.

Oh, you are off the Omaha sucks compared to other US cities train in favor of the Europe is so much better than the US?

Linkin5 · Post by **Linkin5** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:52 am

skinzfan23 wrote:I still think that it has come a very long way in just a little over a decade. I can't think of any other midwestern city that has had this amount of public/private development in an area in this past decade.

I count 5 hotels (over 1,050 rooms), 1 convention center/18,300 seat arena, 24,000 seat baseball stadium, at least 5 restaurants (Mattress Factory, Goodnights pizza, Union Sports Bar and Grill, Ricks Boatyard, and Zestos), 2 condo towers (Riverfront Place), 1 corporate HQ's (Gallup), National Park service building, pedestrian bridge spanning over 3,000 feet, concert space (Film Streams), 3 retail stores (American Apparel, Urban Outfitters, The Dugout).

I agree that there are a few parking lots that will hopefully be replaced soon, but compared to other cities, and especially cities of Omaha's size, great strides have been made.

It really is amazing, I think if you told any city that in a decade a new district could generate that kind of activity they would take it. Â NDT in another decade is going to be amazing.

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:29 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:Difficult to do, considering the "arena district" is a bit of an American phenomenon. But if we're trying to compare apples to apples (that is, a new/modern sports venue nestled in an established area of the city (keeping in mind, this is just one 20,000-capacity soccer stadium, not a 24,000-capacity baseball stadium+convention center+18,000-capacity arena, like Omaha has), then I think the Stade des Alpes in Grenoble, France is a nice case in point. The metro area of Grenoble is roughly 200,000 people SMALLER than that of Omaha. This recently-opened stadium is surrounded by established, dense, mixed use neighborhoods and immense park/open space. The stadium features robust transportation connections including light rail service and ample bicycle and pedestrian facilities that connect it to the surrounding neighborhoods.

Here's a Wikipedia photo:

And that's just one example that I basically pulled out of a hat. But sure, if you want to compare Omaha to Wichita and Akron, I don't know. Yeah, we probably look pretty good.

That's not really a good comparison. That area had clearly been established for years before the stadium was even conceived. Try again.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:45 pm

Axel, no. The fact that North Downtown was in the condition that it was prior to the "arena district" coming in is just another facet of how Omaha loses by comparison. And I'm not trying to pick on Omaha; you pushed me to give an example. This is America's problem, not just Omaha's.

joeglow wrote:Oh, you are off the Omaha sucks compared to other US cities train in favor of the Europe is so much better than the US?

I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying, but no, that is not correct. When have I ever, repeat, ever said Omaha sucks compared to other US cities? Sure, there are innumerable examples of other US cities that are doing better in comparison. But their "successes," too, would seem humble in comparison to countries with societies that value urban living and nature alike. That's kind of the point we're getting at.

It's not as simple as "oh, whose city's 'arena district' looks cooler?"

NovakOmaha · Post by **NovakOmaha** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:10 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:Axel, no. The fact that North Downtown was in the condition that it was prior to the "arena district" coming in is just another facet of how Omaha loses by comparison. And I'm not trying to pick on Omaha; you pushed me to give an example. This is America's problem, not just Omaha's.

joeglow wrote:Oh, you are off the Omaha sucks compared to other US cities train in favor of the Europe is so much better than the US?
I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying, but no, that is not correct. When have I ever, repeat, ever said Omaha sucks compared to other US cities? Sure, there are innumerable examples of other US cities that are doing better in comparison. But their "successes," too, would seem humble in comparison to countries with societies that value urban living and nature alike. That's kind of the point we're getting at.

It's not as simple as "oh, whose city's 'arena district' looks cooler?"

Actually, the point of the original post in this thread is pretty much, why didn't Omaha surround the arena with entertainment? Â Comparing "successes" with countries "with societies that value urban living and nature alike...I'm assuming you're referring to Europe...where they preserve five hundred year old structures. Â Now, I enjoy bathrooms wedged into closets and well pretty much anywhere they can find a spare square foot, but....never mind. Â Let's just say success is in the eye of the beholder. Â Failure is as well.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Sun May 06, 2012 11:22 am

From the World Herald:

Billion-dollar transformation gets attention of Berkshire crowd

http://www.omaha.com/article/20120506/N ... hire-crowd

» Hot Shops Art Center, former mattress factory home to studios and galleries, 2001

» The CenturyLink Center (then called the Qwest Center), $291 million, completed in 2003

» Lewis & Clark Landing, a riverfront festival grounds replacing a lead refinery, $20 million, 2003

» Gallup campus, built in 2003, expanded in 2009, $108 million

» Hilton Omaha hotel, 2004, expanded in 2011, $107 million

» National Park Service's Midwest Regional Headquarters, $13 million, 2004

» Saddle Creek Records, including Slowdown music venue, Film Streams' Ruth Sokolof Theater, apartments and retail and restaurant bays, more than $10 million, 2006

» Mastercraft Furniture building, factory renovated into artist studios, offices, et al, $3 million-plus, 2006

» Bob Kerrey Pedestrian Bridge, $22 million, 2008

» Riverfront Place, two riverfront condominium towers, $68 million, 2006 and 2011

» 22 Floors, retail, restaurant and loft apartments, $3.9 million, 2009

» T.D. Ameritrade Park baseball stadium, home of the College World Series and Creighton University baseball, $131 million, 2011

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Sun May 06, 2012 10:43 pm

Great article!

It showed just how much has been done, but how much more needs to happen. Â The foundation for a vibrant area is there, time to make it live up to its potential.

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Mon May 07, 2012 12:33 am

So when's the expiration date for using Gallup, Rick's Boatyard, etc in the "NDT is awesome" articles? A lot of these things (Gallup, CenturyLink, Rick's, etc) opened 9 years ago. Sure, they're great but it's getting close to sounding more like, "Remember when all that new stuff was being built in north downtown? that was so great, let's relive that through another article about suburbanites discovering life exists outside of 480."