Omaha Conservatory of Music (70th & Cass)

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon May 26, 2014 5:30 pm

I can only imagine this complex is rumored to effect their property evaluations, negatively.

GRANDPASMUCKER · Post by **GRANDPASMUCKER** » Mon May 26, 2014 6:41 pm

HR Paperstacks wrote:WTH is wrong with these rich people who think this really affects them? This is outside their neighborhood and will only add to the tax base of the area. Don't they realize they live in the center of the city and this is bound to happen?! This will happen whether they like it or not. In a free market, they should have no say in what gets developed. Isn't this their whole point in government? You can't be hypocritical and have anyone take you seriously. And I guarantee you that this is exactly all their views - except when it comes to them of course.

One of those rich people is the next Governor of Nebraska so you are kidding yourself if you think they don't have enough influence to snuff this project out.

Professor Woland · Post by **Professor Woland** » Mon May 26, 2014 8:53 pm

HR Paperstacks wrote:WTH is wrong with these rich people who think this really affects them? This is outside their neighborhood and will only add to the tax base of the area. Don't they realize they live in the center of the city and this is bound to happen?! This will happen whether they like it or not. In a free market, they should have no say in what gets developed. Isn't this their whole point in government? You can't be hypocritical and have anyone take you seriously. And I guarantee you that this is exactly all their views - except when it comes to them of course.

I disagree with your assessment of their views. Most rich people are supporters of some sort of economic intervention, the percentage of economic libertarians among the wealthy is probably lower than it is among the population at large. One of the great myths of American history is that the regulatory state that emerged in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries came about in response to concentrated economic power. This is a risible assertion which is not backed up by evidence. The best account of this time is the recently deceased Gabriel Kolko's "Triumph of Conservatism". Kolko was a pretty radical socialist, so he was hardly a free market guy, but he was enough outside of the mainstream that he didn't feel any need to lionize the Progressives. As he explained the regulatory state came about to protect established interests (we see this happening right now with the cab companies citing regulations to keep Uber and Lyft at bay.) In short, even if the majority of Fairacres votes Republican (which might or might not be true) they are almost without exceptions supporters of the regulatory state, they just happen to support a brand of intervention where they have slightly more say.

NEDodger · Post by **NEDodger** » Tue May 27, 2014 4:26 am

HR Paperstacks wrote:WTH is wrong with these rich people who think this really affects them? This is outside their neighborhood and will only add to the tax base of the area. Don't they realize they live in the center of the city and this is bound to happen?! This will happen whether they like it or not. In a free market, they should have no say in what gets developed. Isn't this their whole point in government? You can't be hypocritical and have anyone take you seriously. And I guarantee you that this is exactly all their views - except when it comes to them of course.

Way to generalize.

I'd say with the likelihood of increased traffic along Cass/Underwood, it will likely affect them.

bigredmed · Post by **bigredmed** » Tue May 27, 2014 10:32 am

NEDodger wrote:
HR Paperstacks wrote:WTH is wrong with these rich people who think this really affects them? This is outside their neighborhood and will only add to the tax base of the area. Don't they realize they live in the center of the city and this is bound to happen?! This will happen whether they like it or not. In a free market, they should have no say in what gets developed. Isn't this their whole point in government? You can't be hypocritical and have anyone take you seriously. And I guarantee you that this is exactly all their views - except when it comes to them of course.
Way to generalize.

I'd say with the likelihood of increased traffic along Cass/Underwood, it will likely affect them.

Pretty sure that the people who bought the houses that over look the theater and a synagogue planned on that for neighbors, and not an apartment complex.
Frankly, though, I have a real problem with both sides on this issue. One side wants to use the power of the gun (in the hands of the government) to inflict their will on others without compensation and build an apartment complex next to their palatial estates. The other side wants to use the power of the gun (in the hands of the government) to keep rightful owners of the property from a lawful use of that property, again without any offer of compensation.

In my mind, the settlement is to offer the neighbors stock in the company that owns the apartments. When they become profitable, the neighbor's will get a boost in the stock value and they will have interest in the long term health of the development company as a whole due to their stock. Give all the neighbors 100 shares if their houses are within 300 yards of the apartments and let the others buy in at current market price sans brokerage fees. Once everyone realizes how far away the apartments really are going to be, they will calm down. The church and the playhouse will get donors to buy stock in the development company, as both are within 300 yards, and they will get a boost in their asset base. The neighbors will stop b*tching once they get a taste of the action, or have to b*tch in the presence of their friends who own stock.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Tue May 27, 2014 10:49 am

Interesting that Green Plains Energy is now a player in this game. I am for the $56 million apartment project first. It fits in line with the master plan, will help Crossroads and a very well respected firm completed the traffic study that shows the added population will not over crowd the streets.

Now if apartments get show down which sounds very likely I would hope Green Plains can come in and make a very nice HQ to help bolster the Crossroads area as well.

MadMartin8 · Post by **MadMartin8** » Tue May 27, 2014 5:31 pm

The increased traffic complaint is one of the most laughable arguments I have ever seen when considering where this is located. It's right next to the busiest intersection in Omaha, and I'd venture to say 80%+ of the traffic won't even go into their pretentious neighborhood anyways as the easiest route is probably going to be right off of 72nd. They just need to be honest and say they have a stereotype of apartment complexes and thus don't want "THOSE" kind of people living there, you know, those unwashed miscreants they deem unworthy of living next to (even though this project will most likely appeal to younger professionals)

Can't wait till they |expletive| bricks once Crossroads gets going.

Professor Woland · Post by **Professor Woland** » Tue May 27, 2014 5:58 pm

I think the apartments are going to be ugly if they look anything like the renderings, but I don't own the land and I'd rather die than declare that someone can't do what they want with their property (minus torts of course.) But what's interesting to me about this is that the synagogue is a much more attractive building than the Clarinda, and probably more historically important in the grand scheme of things in Omaha. Furthermore, when someone in Dundee wants to tear down a house they own there is untold wailing and gnashing of teeth about "the character of the neighborhood." But here we have an attractive, historically significant structure about to be replaced by something that will clash with the character of the area upon which it is being built and the ideological shoe seems to be on the other foot. The proper attitude, as I see it (which doesn't amount to much, I admit) is to admit that whichever party buys the property has the right to do as they please with it, and to extend this attitude everywhere else in the city.

lisanstan · Post by **lisanstan** » Tue May 27, 2014 7:35 pm

I think the assertion that there will not be increased traffic on Underwood is incorrect. With 435+ extra cars (because there will be some apts with 2 ppl) nobody is going to want to try and turn left onto Underwood/Cass and then sit behind all those cars trying to turn left onto 72nd. I can see a lot of people thinking they can game the traffic by going east through the neighborhood.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Tue May 27, 2014 8:01 pm

lisanstan wrote:I think the assertion that there will not be increased traffic on Underwood is incorrect. With 435+ extra cars (because there will be some apts with 2 ppl) nobody is going to want to try and turn left onto Underwood/Cass and then sit behind all those cars trying to turn left onto 72nd. I can see a lot of people thinking they can game the traffic by going east through the neighborhood.

Go right to 69th take a right and get to Dodge in a hurry. Lamp Rynearson did the traffic study, their stamp is on probably half of the city documents that I look at. Like cdub said a bunch of people saying it doesn't pass the sniff test doesn't make the experts wrong.

Globochem · Post by **Globochem** » Tue May 27, 2014 8:28 pm

Forget the absurdity of complaining that a development some 3 blocks away doesn't have the right to develop how it chooses (in this case absurdly belly aching over a high-end apartment complex). Forget that the upside to density is more retail opportunities and higher property values all around. Forget that this would be the second project rejected by the neighboring community for various reasons that boil down to trenchant misenthropy and how this would have a chilling effect on any subsequent development. Forget that this is blatant interference with a private transaction that if heeded could derail other projects all over town. Forget that no one chooses to drive down Underwood, rather one furiously finds oneself in a single file standstill inching past Memorial Park.

No, what really gets my blood boiling is the completely self-absorbed argument of a neighborhood that already all but prohibits access to Dundee and Benson from Dodge Street. Fairacres has carved a little pseudo-gated community for themselves at the cost of reasonable traffic flow through town. This is NOT going to change because the city has no interest in widening Underwood or upgrading infrastructure. Anyone along 69th Street might see an uptick in traffic, but no one, I mean NO ONE will travel down the Fireswamp of Underwood Avenue from 69th to Happy Hollow. Anyone who levels the moronic claim that "safety" would be harmed is merely desperately clutching for listener who would otherwise be fist pounding a steering wheel, wondering how this selfish, egotistical, narcissistic community managed to slip by the city planning department without a street light or passing lane, while stuck behind a funeral procession of Buick Skylarks gazing at the well trimmed verge. Build the damn thing.

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Wed May 28, 2014 12:48 pm

iamjacobm wrote:
lisanstan wrote:I think the assertion that there will not be increased traffic on Underwood is incorrect. With 435+ extra cars (because there will be some apts with 2 ppl) nobody is going to want to try and turn left onto Underwood/Cass and then sit behind all those cars trying to turn left onto 72nd. I can see a lot of people thinking they can game the traffic by going east through the neighborhood.
Go right to 69th take a right and get to Dodge in a hurry. Lamp Rynearson did the traffic study, their stamp is on probably half of the city documents that I look at. Like cdub said a bunch of people saying it doesn't pass the sniff test doesn't make the experts wrong.

The "increased Traffic in our neighborhood" argument falls flat when you consider the larger amount traffic Crossroads used to create during the 1960's-1980's when it was a bustling shopping center, not to mention the increase in traffic they'll see when it is redeveloped. You don't hear neighbors complaining about that proposed redevelopment. The area bound by 72nd-69th-Dodge-Cass should be allowed to develop into higher density. You can't even see the proposed site from most of Fairacres.

In my opinion, the problems you see with traffic backing up on Underwood are caused by the 4-way stop they have at the Underwood - Fairacres Road intersection. They should put in a stoplight that stays green all the time until it's activated when car wants to enter that intersection from Fairacres Road. It backs-up for 1/2 mile because of the four-way stop. Of course they would poo-poo that idea because people would supposedly be more tempted to speed from 69th to Happy Hollow. They speed anyway once they get through the 4-way stop to make-up lost time. I know that stretch well since I used to cut through that area on my way to the Country Club neighborhood north of Blondo near 56th. I used to turn left off of Underwood at Fairwood Ln to Hillcrest Dr and angle my way up to Western Ave.

Nevertheless, I still thank God the traffic engineers didn't get their way in the 60's and 70's and plow an expressway through some of the best neighborhoods in Omaha. (Dundee, Memorial Park, Fairacres, etc.) Compared to other cities, traffic in Omaha is a breeze. Try driving in Atlanta if you don't believe me.

I should add that it probably will be difficult to exit the new proposed development onto Cass St. without a stop light. Maybe they will have access to 69th too.

lmdramos · Post by **lmdramos** » Wed May 28, 2014 5:15 pm

I guess both sides might end up getting what they want.

New plan would mean renovation – not demolition – for former Temple Israel, fewer nearby apartments

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/new-pla ... f6878.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MadMartin8 · Post by **MadMartin8** » Wed May 28, 2014 5:17 pm

lmdramos wrote:I guess both sides might end up getting what they want.

New plan would mean renovation – not demolition – for former Temple Israel, fewer nearby apartments

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/new-pla ... f6878.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Omaha needs new tourism motto to go along with "Nebraska nice"

"Omaha regression"

Professor Woland · Post by **Professor Woland** » Wed May 28, 2014 5:47 pm

MadMartin8 wrote:
lmdramos wrote:I guess both sides might end up getting what they want.

New plan would mean renovation – not demolition – for former Temple Israel, fewer nearby apartments

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/new-pla ... f6878.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Omaha needs new tourism motto to go along with "Nebraska nice"

"Omaha regression"

You're not a fan of the idea? If they were pressured by the city to change their plans, I'm with you, but I think this concept would be much more attractive than what was proposed.

MadMartin8 · Post by **MadMartin8** » Wed May 28, 2014 6:00 pm

Professor Woland wrote:
MadMartin8 wrote:
lmdramos wrote:I guess both sides might end up getting what they want.

New plan would mean renovation – not demolition – for former Temple Israel, fewer nearby apartments

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/new-pla ... f6878.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Omaha needs new tourism motto to go along with "Nebraska nice"

"Omaha regression"
You're not a fan of the idea? If they were pressured by the city to change their plans, I'm with you, but I think this concept would be much more attractive than what was proposed.

I'm, as you eluded to, more disappointed with the fact that once again, NIMBYS are getting their way. Once again, a development is curtailed due to the incessant complaining of neighbors who complained under false pretenses.

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Wed May 28, 2014 6:27 pm

Actually this is a pretty positive thing I'd say. We get to keep that synagogue, which will become a cultural center, while still getting 250 apartments out of the deal. Could be way worse.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Wed May 28, 2014 9:41 pm

I love the new plan. OCM would be a fantastic addition to the area with the Playhouse right next door.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Wed May 28, 2014 9:59 pm

Way to puss-out

Post by **Coyote** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:56 pm

Bluestone's Cass Place will be before the City Council this coming Tuesday.

Post by **Coyote** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:03 pm

I guess I read the agenda wrong, all items on the Agenda were withdrawn by Bluestone today.

lmdramos · Post by **lmdramos** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:30 pm

Is the plan a no-go then?

Post by **Coyote** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:44 pm

lmdramos wrote:Is the plan a no-go then?

I'll have to look into this, all zoning was passed by the Planning Committee...

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:36 pm

Coyote wrote:I guess I read the agenda wrong, all items on the Agenda were withdrawn by Bluestone today.

Do they need to re-apply with changed plans? I noticed the TIF request was still mentioning tearing down the temple.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:53 pm

New proposal on the Planning Board agenda.

Post by **Coyote** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:31 am

iamjacobm wrote:New proposal on the Planning Board agenda.

Down to 250 apartments and the plan would also build a new home for the Omaha Conservatory of Music.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:16 am

So its basically been cut in half from the originally proposed 450 apartments.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:56 pm

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/despite ... 54940.html

A scaled-down plan for the former Temple Israel site won the Omaha Planning Board’s approval today, despite Fairacres neighbors’ objections.

The plan, and debate over it, will move forward to the Omaha City Council.

Developer Christian Christensen’s plans would build 168 apartments and renovate the former Temple Israel, 70th and Cass Streets, into a new home for the Omaha Conservatory of Music.

He had proposed razing the vacant temple and erecting 434 apartments, but changed plans after neighbors opposed.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:20 pm

No apartments. Still like OCM moving here though.

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/apartme ... d4856.html

The latest plan for the former Temple Israel site at 70th and Cass Streets drops a proposal for apartment complex, but it still would convert the vacant synagogue into a new home for the Omaha Conservatory of Music.

Conservatory officials announced today that they have agreed to buy the entire eight-acre site from Bluestone Development. Bluestone had proposed to build apartments on part of the land under a previous scaled-back proposal for the property, but significant neighborhood opposition remained to that plan.

“The purchase agreement for this incredible mid‐town Omaha site marks a major milestone in the evolution of the OCM,” Paul Smith, a member of the conservatory's board, said in a press release. “We plan to renovate the former Temple Israel building into a world‐class music education center for our community.”

jessep28 · Post by **jessep28** » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:28 pm

The not in my backyard crowd wins again.

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:57 pm

jessep28 wrote:The not in my backyard crowd wins again.

God forbid icky middle class people live there. That would just be trashy.

Post by **Coyote** » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:29 pm

How about pretentious avant-garde musician class dudes...

daveoma · Post by **daveoma** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:53 am

I thought the master plan for this area included high rise apartments. How will the vision ever come to fruition if a few residents block it? The apartments would have been in a great location to utilize the busiest bus line in the city along Dodge street. This could've been an impetus for even more development which might have made mass transit from downtown to Crossroads more feasible. I don't understand how people who live in the middle of an urban area of half a million people would think that redevelopment cannot and should not happen. I really hope in the future there will be other opportunities for a dense urban neighborhood around 72nd & Dodge.

Omababe · Post by **Omababe** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:47 am

jessep28 wrote:The not in my backyard crowd wins again.

If I know the area, it's in the backyard of some very influential people!

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:49 am

daveoma wrote:I thought the master plan for this area included high rise apartments. How will the vision ever come to fruition if a few residents block it? The apartments would have been in a great location to utilize the busiest bus line in the city along Dodge street. This could've been an impetus for even more development which might have made mass transit from downtown to Crossroads more feasible. I don't understand how people who live in the middle of an urban area of half a million people would think that redevelopment cannot and should not happen. I really hope in the future there will be other opportunities for a dense urban neighborhood around 72nd & Dodge.

I think there is a thread in the 'Projects Never Built' forum for the apartments you're talking about; which should have been where the Homewood Suites is now.

cg_8 · Post by **cg_8** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:37 am

"It was unclear how much of a role the neighbors’ opposition played in the change in plans."

^ This is probably one of the dumbest quotes from the article I may have ever read in my life...

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:14 am

cg_8 wrote:"It was unclear how much of a role the neighbors’ opposition played in the change in plans."

^ This is probably one of the dumbest quotes from the article I may have ever read in my life...

bigredmed · Post by **bigredmed** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:25 am

About to get blasted for this, but here it goes:

That neighborhood has two exits to the south and west. One is Cass street and one is Fonda (69th) street. This leaves a neighborhood with two exits that will fill up with apartment traffic really fast. The Conservatory would drain out onto Cass and not be a problem. I have to think that with their influence, someone showed the city council the road use projections from even a small apartment complex and persuaded them to approve this instead.

Not that I necessarily agree with the decision, but I am not surprised by it.

Apartments in this town have a habit of going scummy in a few years. For a while they are the new hotness and all the young up and comers want to live there. Then the next new hotness opens and the place declines. Not sure I would want to own a property like a house in Fair Acres that expensive and have it butt up against a college crash pad.

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:43 am

I see your point. They could have controlled their client base with higher rents.

bigredmed · Post by **bigredmed** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:51 am

RNcyanide wrote:I see your point. They could have controlled their client base with higher rents.

Only till they stopped being cool. Once that happens, they start doing deals, then they start renting to college kids, then section 8. Then they gut the place and turn it into condos/townhomes.