Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

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choke
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by choke »

iamjacobm wrote:Still not a lot of details to be found, but it sounds like the library is the plan along with residential, office and retail including a grocery store.
Not bad for where the city is at. At least it wasn't just more apartments and hotel. Plus it frees up the primo downtown library spot for development. What kind of grocery store? Mom and Pop's grocery or a major player in the business????
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by MadMartin8 »

Well, it's better than an unused Arena or parking lot sitting there.
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Chungus
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by Chungus »

Kind of underwhelming... looks like it belongs on a college campus, not an urban core. Does the greenspace open onto the overpass? :?:
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

I'm guessing the design and layout will change substantially as the project moves along as they alluded to in the article.
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GetUrban
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by GetUrban »

Well, it's certainly not maxing-out the full potential for the four-block site, density-wise, but the building designs look pretty good.

I'm still not convinced there's really a need to move the library, unless you show me some really substantial replacement going into the old site.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by Chungus »

I'm sure the building designs will change quite a bit, but I would guess that the overall site layout would stay about the same.
choke
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by choke »

GetUrban wrote:Well, it's certainly not maxing-out the full potential for the four-block site, density-wise, but the building designs look pretty good.

I'm still not convinced there's really a need to move the library, unless you show me some really substantial replacement going into the old site.
The current library is a homeless shelter. Our downtown library should be more like DoSpace, IMO. And moving it closer to schools, Creighton and Central, is not a terrible idea. Someone will nab the empty space (Kiewit) at the head of the mall, no doubt.
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GetUrban
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by GetUrban »

choke wrote:
GetUrban wrote:Well, it's certainly not maxing-out the full potential for the four-block site, density-wise, but the building designs look pretty good.

I'm still not convinced there's really a need to move the library, unless you show me some really substantial replacement going into the old site.
The current library is a homeless shelter. Our downtown library should be more like DoSpace, IMO. And moving it closer to schools, Creighton and Central, is not a terrible idea. Someone will nab the empty space (Kiewit) at the head of the mall, no doubt.
I think the homeless will find the new library too. That's really more of a question of what can be done to help solve the homeless problem, more than where they'll go. There's nothing so unique about DoSpace that could not be retrofitted into the old library. It seems like Omaha just keeps moving things around rather than adding to what we already have, and somehow ending up with less variety of things going on downtown in the process. Central and Creighton each already have libraries focused toward their own curriculum, although it would be a good alternate place for students to go study, I agree.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
choke
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by choke »

GetUrban wrote:
choke wrote:
GetUrban wrote:Well, it's certainly not maxing-out the full potential for the four-block site, density-wise, but the building designs look pretty good.

I'm still not convinced there's really a need to move the library, unless you show me some really substantial replacement going into the old site.
The current library is a homeless shelter. Our downtown library should be more like DoSpace, IMO. And moving it closer to schools, Creighton and Central, is not a terrible idea. Someone will nab the empty space (Kiewit) at the head of the mall, no doubt.
I think the homeless will find the new library too. That's really more of a question of what can be done to help solve the homeless problem, more than where they'll go. There's nothing so unique about DoSpace that could not be retrofitted into the old library. It seems like Omaha just keeps moving things around rather than adding to what we already have, and somehow ending up with less variety of things going on downtown in the process. Central and Creighton each already have libraries focused toward their own curriculum, although it would be a good alternate place for students to go study, I agree.
Unfortunately, what would solve the homeless problem is if us way too nice Midwesterners would quit enabling them. It also wouldn't hurt if other states like Wisconsin wouldn't direct there homeless to come here (and yes, that is happening). There's a point when trying to modify the past to fit the future, e.g.,Rosenblatt and Civic Auditorium, is beyond fruitful. I see nothing wrong with a new library; it's due. Plus, the library can be in a more dense setting where you might attract a little more traffic. It is currently on an island; no way to build around it. This is Omaha, not Seatlle; we are going to shuffle things around. Amazon isn't putting there HQ here anytime soon.
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by jlincoln »

I don't see people investing in luxury living across from a public library, known for attracting the lost and homeless.
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iamjacobm
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by iamjacobm »

jlincoln wrote:I don't see people investing in luxury living across from a public library, known for attracting the lost and homeless.
The Paxton which has condos ranging from 300K to over 800K is directly across the street from the current library.
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by jlincoln »

iamjacobm wrote:
jlincoln wrote:I don't see people investing in luxury living across from a public library, known for attracting the lost and homeless.
The Paxton which has condos ranging from 300K to over 800K is directly across the street from the current library.
OK, your risk not mine.
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by Chungus »

jlincoln wrote:
iamjacobm wrote:
jlincoln wrote:I don't see people investing in luxury living across from a public library, known for attracting the lost and homeless.
The Paxton which has condos ranging from 300K to over 800K is directly across the street from the current library.
OK, your risk not mine.
Doesn't seem to be holding any other city back...
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by Coyote »

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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by almighty_tuna »

In Coyote's second rendering, anyone else curious as to where that skywalk is going?
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by daveoma »

choke wrote:
GetUrban wrote:
choke wrote:
GetUrban wrote:Well, it's certainly not maxing-out the full potential for the four-block site, density-wise, but the building designs look pretty good.

I'm still not convinced there's really a need to move the library, unless you show me some really substantial replacement going into the old site.
The current library is a homeless shelter. Our downtown library should be more like DoSpace, IMO. And moving it closer to schools, Creighton and Central, is not a terrible idea. Someone will nab the empty space (Kiewit) at the head of the mall, no doubt.
I think the homeless will find the new library too. That's really more of a question of what can be done to help solve the homeless problem, more than where they'll go. There's nothing so unique about DoSpace that could not be retrofitted into the old library. It seems like Omaha just keeps moving things around rather than adding to what we already have, and somehow ending up with less variety of things going on downtown in the process. Central and Creighton each already have libraries focused toward their own curriculum, although it would be a good alternate place for students to go study, I agree.
Unfortunately, what would solve the homeless problem is if us way too nice Midwesterners would quit enabling them. It also wouldn't hurt if other states like Wisconsin wouldn't direct there homeless to come here (and yes, that is happening). There's a point when trying to modify the past to fit the future, e.g.,Rosenblatt and Civic Auditorium, is beyond fruitful. I see nothing wrong with a new library; it's due. Plus, the library can be in a more dense setting where you might attract a little more traffic. It is currently on an island; no way to build around it. This is Omaha, not Seatlle; we are going to shuffle things around. Amazon isn't putting there HQ here anytime soon.
Most homeless people are mentally ill. It seems to me like free mental health care would remove homeless people from the street and make them into productive tax paying citizens. Just sayin'.
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zedmib
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by zedmib »

almighty_tuna wrote:In Coyote's second rendering, anyone else curious as to where that skywalk is going?
I would say the skywalk is crossing 17th street to Park 6.
I agree the plan is a touch underwhelming but we all dream big and that's never a bad thing.
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symphie
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by symphie »

Are those renderings of Tetrad's new plan for the site?
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by makeogreatagain »

Nope, those are plans for my new home.
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by Omaha Cowboy »

zedmib wrote:
almighty_tuna wrote:In Coyote's second rendering, anyone else curious as to where that skywalk is going?
I would say the skywalk is crossing 17th street to Park 6.
I agree the plan is a touch underwhelming but we all dream big and that's never a bad thing.
Underwhelming indeed.. But I agree with your sentiment...

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symphie
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by symphie »

makeogreatagain wrote:Nope, those are plans for my new home.
You must have some pretty fat pockets. Let me know when you have your first cookout.
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by NEDodger »

Uninspiring, but there are three potential wins here:

1.) A grocery store comes to downtown
2.) The main library comes to this site and opens the current library site for development
3.) The NE State Offices move here and opens the brick monstrosity to development on the south side of Leahy Mall.
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by Omaha Cowboy »

NEDodger wrote:Uninspiring, but there are three potential wins here:

1.) A grocery store comes to downtown
2.) The main library comes to this site and opens the current library site for development
3.) The NE State Offices move here and opens the brick monstrosity to development on the south side of Leahy Mall.
Completely agree..

3 potential wins including a downtown grocery store and the current library site open for what could be the next downtown highrise development.. The next 3-5 years should be very telling...

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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by daveoma »

NEDodger wrote:Uninspiring, but there are three potential wins here:

1.) A grocery store comes to downtown
2.) The main library comes to this site and opens the current library site for development
3.) The NE State Offices move here and opens the brick monstrosity to development on the south side of Leahy Mall.
I really agree with you on all 3 points. :thumb:
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by RNcyanide »

NEDodger wrote:Uninspiring, but there are three potential wins here:

1.) A grocery store comes to downtown
2.) The main library comes to this site and opens the current library site for development
3.) The NE State Offices move here and opens the brick monstrosity to development on the south side of Leahy Mall.
If it maintains the curvature of the new plan, I wouldn't say it is entirely uninspiring - we don't really have a lot of curved buildings or layouts like that DT. However, as far as redevelopment of the NESOB and Library goes, well... I mean there was a reason there isn't a 40 story office tower on this site anymore and Lanoha/TACK's proposal is still only a proposal. We're going to be waiting quite a while, barring Kiewit relocating downtown or an outside player.
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by RNcyanide »

And whatever is hopefully built where the brick chode is right now, I hope they incorporate elements of the original WoW building. That would be so neat to see a modern take on it.
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.

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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by Midwestern »

RNcyanide wrote:We're going to be waiting quite a while, barring Kiewit relocating downtown or an outside player.
The current Kiewit tower in midtown would make a really good condo/apartment building.
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by Ben »

Moving the library sounds like a great idea, in theory, but before the city and Tetrad propose doing it, you'd think they'd consult the library board, right?

Yeah, not so much. Apparently the first time several people on the board saw this plan was when it was on the news.... Reporters called a friend on the board for a comment, and her response was "on what?".
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Re: Tetrad Development (Civic Auditorium)

Post by iamjacobm »

The platting doc is called "Civic Square."
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Re: Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

Post by Coyote »

Well, it is starting to sound like a Civic project....
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Re: Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

Post by ShaneofCal »

I am pleasantly surprised by the details of this project. It seems like an all-encompassing plan, with space for residents, retail, offices, civic engagement, and lots of green. The great thing is that there is ample time to refine the visual components as the project progresses, though I don't hate it as it stands. They have kept to a scale that compliments the project's future inhabitants. One thing to be grateful for from the initial renderings is that it seems like a rather inviting space. People will want to go to this part of town once completed.
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Re: Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

Post by Coyote »

Omaha Planning Board wrote: APPROVAL 7-0.

Approval of the Preliminary Plat, subject to the following conditions:

1) Proposed nodes and on-street parking improvements will be subject to the Public Works Department public improvement process.

2) The proposed conversion of Chicago Street will require concurrence from Public Works - a traffic study will need to be submitted for review.

3) Coordinate with Public Works on the following: (a) A pavement assessment and the potential resurfacing of Chicago Street. (b) The placement of meters at all on-street parking stalls. (c) Potential improvements at 19th Street and Capitol Avenue which may allow for on-street parking to be added along the west side of the development.

4) Consider improvements to provide additional internal connectivity for the development.

5) Dedicate right-of-way as needed to ensure required sidewalks fall within the right-of-way.

6) Receive a right-of-way lease from the city for any elevated connection across 17th Street.

7) Provide sidewalks along all street frontages.

8.) Compliance with all applicable stormwater management ordinances and policies.
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Re: Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

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iamjacobm
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Re: Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

Post by iamjacobm »

Platting is before city council. It looks to follow the exact proposed layout in the renderings above.

EDIT: 365K SF of office, civic and retail along with 176 residential units.
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Re: Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

Post by buildomaha »

I still don't know if I'm a fan of the design. I don't believe that green spaces need to be incorporated in the middle of the densest part of the city, no matter how great they are. There's plenty of room for green space downtown, just not here. I also don't believe that downtown is the right place for a superblock like this to be handed over to a single developer. The block would have a lot more variety had it been given the opportunity to develop naturally rather than forcing this to be built. This is a project that looks like it belongs in a business park off Dodge.
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Re: Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

Post by buildomaha »

To support my earlier claims here's an article about how these supposed revitalization projects go wrong. Although this isn't a project designed for tall buildings like the example from the article, I completely agree with the idea that many small, home grown developments add much more to a downtown area than large scale redevelopments that waste so much of our urban space, like the current design of this project.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/201 ... talization
The zoning code effectively prohibits any sort of small-scale, incremental development for a huge portion of downtown. Instead, these zones are reserved for the exclusive use of large developers willing to invest in massive, all-or-nothing projects like the Legacy Tower or the Excellus Blue Cross Blue Shield offices, both of which sit empty outside of work hours.

Rochester should learn from the failure of local titans of industry (Xerox, Bausch & Lomb, Kodak) and realize that a downtown of grand or monumental scale is hardly a prerequisite of success and vitality. In fact many places with considerably more active downtowns exhibit a far more humble appearance than Rochester (e.g. Princeton, New Jersey; Summit, New Jersey; Easton, Pennsylvania; Ithaca, New York). It’s time for planners to permit a more granular approach to downtown development and eliminate nonsensical mandates of high floor counts and monumental scales.

If Rochester truly wants the quality of its street life to match that of its skyline, it’s time to think beyond the form to the function of its buildings and how they connect with their surroundings. Fortunately, recent efforts on behalf of the city and private developers alike have moved towards fixing the planning failures of the past, and downtown is slowly but surely heading in the right direction. But to address the root of the issue, planners must work towards continuing to relax a zoning code fixated on some twentieth century vision of a downtown built for cars and commuters.

Codes should allow developers every opportunity to incrementally build downtown as a true place to live again. Until then, the gap between the grandeur of the skyline and the health of the streets will remain.
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iamjacobm
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Re: Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

Post by iamjacobm »

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/city-co ... 8f387.html
It shows four buildings with apartments, offices, stores and possibly a new downtown public library at the site at 18th Street and Capitol Avenue.

That's smaller, but roughly along the lines of what the developer, Tetrad Property Group, and Omaha Mayor Jean Stothert have talked about since she chose the developer in 2014.

The developers envision a grocery and other retail, a fitness center and civic buildings.

The four buildings combined would have a total of about 740,000 square feet. The development could cost $200 million, the mayor’s press release said.
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mcarch
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Re: Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

Post by mcarch »

Are they really moving the State Offices there?

Also, they should add back in a performing space since they tore the one in the Civic down. It was constantly being used for Comedic shows.
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Re: Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

Post by MadMartin8 »

Well, we may get that "urban" Hyvee or whatever like everyone wanted. The more I look at the plan, the more I just see a lot of wasted space, but it'll serve its purpose if it actually includes the items they are hoping to include.

If they move the state offices there, doesn't that free up the land that is pretty centralized and currently taken up by that weird red brick building? Good news there.
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Re: Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

Post by mcarch »

MadMartin8 wrote:Well, we may get that "urban" Hyvee or whatever like everyone wanted. The more I look at the plan, the more I just see a lot of wasted space, but it'll serve its purpose if it actually includes the items they are hoping to include.

If they move the state offices there, doesn't that free up the land that is pretty centralized and currently taken up by that weird red brick building? Good news there.
I agree with the wasted space. They could have added so much more mixed space. Every tower that has been proposed included one or two uses and have ultimately failed. Where are our office, retail, hotel, and residential buildings in one?
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