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Although I do think this is a huge letdown, as someone else said, this could have a domino effect because I remember a little birdy saying something about the library moving to the site and big things happening on the current library spot...

I don't see what the big deal is. We living in Omaha should expect something like this to fall through (HDR, Wallstreet Tower, etc.).
It sounds like they'll move the library here and we can put a tower in the old library lot. I'm willing to trade the old rendering with a new tower at the library site, aren't you?

based on the amount of let downs in high rises and DT headquarters I am not surprised at all it appears the city demand appears currntly to build mini sub-areas such as MTC, Aksarben,etc although the Capitol district was long delayed I feel this will be our last large scale project for at least 5 years the demand is not so big DT with not so many new tenants and Conagra leaving hope the C-District will begin to attract more

I can't beleive after all the high rise FAILS we've had over the years some people still have faith on the library site.

HskrFanMike wrote:Green space makes for a fine interim solution while we wait for a more appropriate development.

That being said, I think we need to put a moratorium on any further demolition downtown until the Wall Street/Lanoha and Civic sites are developed. The Gavilon project would have been a much better fit on the Wall Street/Lanoha site, and would have retained the old W-H park a little longer.

If the old OWH park was done until something was built in that space, why is not a park done in the Wall Street/Lanoha site while sitting idle? Is it so expensive to do and mantain?

I mean, it is a sad sight having an empty lot in the middle of the CBD.

The most disappointing part of this is the talk of YMCA, Library, Children's Museum, a park. This is prime reality for residential due to it's proximity to Creighton. Also the idea of retail space up and down Capital Street takes another hit if you put these types of facilities along the street.

I don't care so much about the Office Tower but a new Public Library and a park is not what downtown Omaha needs. Is the park for the Library's visitors to sleep in at night?

A few blocks of 5 or 6 story Residential units with ground level retail that take advantage of the existing parking garage and internal parking would be every bit as good as the previous design. One block with a new expanded YMCA or a new expanded Children's Museum that take advantage of garage parking and is built to a urban design that engages at the street level is fine as part of a larger development.

mistergutierrez wrote:

HskrFanMike wrote:Green space makes for a fine interim solution while we wait for a more appropriate development.

That being said, I think we need to put a moratorium on any further demolition downtown until the Wall Street/Lanoha and Civic sites are developed. The Gavilon project would have been a much better fit on the Wall Street/Lanoha site, and would have retained the old W-H park a little longer.

If the old OWH park was done until something was built in that space, why is not a park done in the Wall Street/Lanoha site while sitting idle? Is it so expensive to do and mantain?

I mean, it is a sad sight having an empty lot in the middle of the CBD.

The World Herald built the OWH park with their own money because they were a good Corporate Citizen of Omaha. There aren't too many of those left. No out of town Real Estate Speculator is going to spend a dime they don't have to on a vacant lot. Now that the lot is locally owned it is more disappointing. If only Lanoha knew of a company that does landscaping and had landscaping designers on staff as well as dozens of workers they are already paying who could transform this entire block in less than a week.

Joe_Sovereign wrote:The most disappointing part of this is the talk of YMCA, Library, Children's Museum, a park. This is prime reality for residential due to it's proximity to Creighton. Also the idea of retail space up and down Capital Street takes another hit if you put these types of facilities along the street.

I don't care so much about the Office Tower but a new Public Library and a park is not what downtown Omaha needs. Is the park for the Library's visitors to sleep in at night?

A few blocks of 5 or 6 story Residential units with ground level retail that take advantage of the existing parking garage and internal parking would be every bit as good as the previous design. One block with a new expanded YMCA or a new expanded Children's Museum that take advantage of garage parking and is built to a urban design that engages at the street level is fine as part of a larger development.

Yeah, I can understand the tower but the original plan was for "family" residential. For all ages. That's what gets me. If you ain't gonna do it then let someone else give it a shot. The more residential you get downtown, the sooner someone will have to take notice. The more rooftops, the more development.

If we are going a civic component here I would like to see it taken to the extreme.

The Y, library, Children's Museum, move the Police and Fire HQ here, move the state office users here. Design a large scale development with all those uses could give us start of the art civic amenities while opening up some prime land in DT for more commercial development.

iamjacobm wrote:If we are going a civic component here I would like to see it taken to the extreme.

The Y, library, Children's Museum, move the Police and Fire HQ here, move the state office users here. Design a large scale development with all those uses could give us start of the art civic amenities while opening up some prime land in DT for more commercial development.

Agreed. Clearing up all of those sites would free up a bunch of land in better locations. I'll not hold my breath too much though. Finished development hasn't been particularly ambitious ever since the completion of MTC and Aksarben.

A little frustrating that this might be a longer timeline than expected, but at least the Civic was demoed, so that any development to be planned doesn't have to wait on that.

Also, I am not trying to restart the Zach Wiegert argument from the first couple pages of this thread, but on the Tetrad website it shows that Alex Henery also works for Tetrad.

RNcyanide wrote:Tetrad + Nustyle wins!!! 16 story office tower!!!!!

Tetrad Property Group/NuStyle
Development plan:
» A 16-story office tower on the northeast corner of the site, at 17th and Chicago Streets, which could accommodate 2,750
workers.
» 200 residential units, located on three floors above office space. The residential buildings would be on the northwest corner, at 19th and Chicago Streets, and next to the existing parking garage at 19th Street and Capitol Avenue.
» Retail space on the ground level of the residential buildings. The proposal says the spaces will provide opportunities for a day care, dry cleaner, a fitness center and other businesses that fit the neighborhood. One large space would be reserved for an “urban box store” offering groceries.
» A four-story “civic building,” located at 17th Street and Capitol Avenue, such as a small business training center or a community learning center, where classes could be offered in subjects like woodworking, painting and gardening.
Source: Civic Auditorium redevelopment proposals

A lump of coal is the only thing Omaha gets out of this pipe dream.

If they do go for more civic purposses (pun intended), I'd like to see a plan where you put in a larger children's museum, the long talked about natural history museum, and a first class library.

Greg

Greg S wrote:If they do go for more civic purposses (pun intended), I'd like to see a plan where you put in a larger children's museum, the long talked about natural history museum, and a first class library.

Greg

Frankly, I think all of that should be on the Riverfront. Put your sand volleyball court and food trucks at the Civic site. Tetrad shouldn't get the easy way out on this. The folks behind the Riverfront should get the non-profits. What a load of !*#*.

choke wrote:

Greg S wrote:If they do go for more civic purposses (pun intended), I'd like to see a plan where you put in a larger children's museum, the long talked about natural history museum, and a first class library.

Greg

Frankly, I think all of that should be on the Riverfront. Put your sand volleyball court and food trucks at the Civic site. Tetrad shouldn't get the easy way out on this. The folks behind the Riverfront should get the non-profits. What a load of !*#*.

I think somebody needs a hug ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

choke wrote:

Greg S wrote:If they do go for more civic purposses (pun intended), I'd like to see a plan where you put in a larger children's museum, the long talked about natural history museum, and a first class library.

Greg

Frankly, I think all of that should be on the Riverfront. Put your sand volleyball court and food trucks at the Civic site. Tetrad shouldn't get the easy way out on this. The folks behind the Riverfront should get the non-profits. What a load of !*#*.

Where on the riverfront? There isn't room on the old site for Rick's is there? Especially with the contamination below ground I would imagine.

Greg

I'm assuming this change has something to do with speculation on the office market downtown. I'd rather the Civic site sit primed for development or as a new civic plaza than an empty building. I agree that the library, YMCA, and children's museum all currently sit on prime space for redevelopment and we may end up coming out ahead. No more parks please. This is the Central Business District. It's the designated area for high intensity commercial and residential uses, not fields of grass.

As far as putting the library, YMCA, and Children's Museum on the riverfront, I think we want a level of walkability for at least the first two of those things for local residents. The riverfront is too remote and would necessitate driving for most patrons, which is not ideal.

How about the children's museum on Lot B the librar in NeDo and the Y can go |expletive| itself.

MTO wrote:How about the children's museum on Lot B the librar in NeDo and the Y can go |expletive| itself.

Lot B would be redeveloped for residential/commercial space. I doubt the Children's Museum would go there.
The Library would actually fit nicely in NeDo.
Lastly the Y is the most desperate out of these 3 for a new space. Why not let them build on part of the Civic lot? It's better than an empty lot for years.

TitosBuritoBarn wrote:I'm assuming this change has something to do with speculation on the office market downtown. I'd rather the Civic site sit primed for development or as a new civic plaza than an empty building. I agree that the library, YMCA, and children's museum all currently sit on prime space for redevelopment and we may end up coming out ahead. No more parks please. This is the Central Business District. It's the designated area for high intensity commercial and residential uses, not fields of grass.

As far as putting the library, YMCA, and Children's Museum on the riverfront, I think we want a level of walkability for at least the first two of those things for local residents. The riverfront is too remote and would necessitate driving for most patrons, which is not ideal.

I think the idea is that civic components can spur development. I think that's why the Clink and TDA were built in North Downtown. What's gonna be the tougher draw, old Civic site or the Riverfront? Bingo. Children's Museum to the Riverfront to neighbor with the Lewis & Clark center. Both family venues. Tetrad can have the Y and the library. BTW, who is walking to the old Civic site? You have to drive no matter which site you go to.

choke wrote:

TitosBuritoBarn wrote:I'm assuming this change has something to do with speculation on the office market downtown. I'd rather the Civic site sit primed for development or as a new civic plaza than an empty building. I agree that the library, YMCA, and children's museum all currently sit on prime space for redevelopment and we may end up coming out ahead. No more parks please. This is the Central Business District. It's the designated area for high intensity commercial and residential uses, not fields of grass.

As far as putting the library, YMCA, and Children's Museum on the riverfront, I think we want a level of walkability for at least the first two of those things for local residents. The riverfront is too remote and would necessitate driving for most patrons, which is not ideal.

I think the idea is that civic components can spur development. I think that's why the Clink and TDA were built in North Downtown. What's gonna be the tougher draw, old Civic site or the Riverfront? Bingo. Children's Museum to the Riverfront to neighbor with the Lewis & Clark center. Both family venues. Tetrad can have the Y and the library. BTW, who is walking to the old Civic site? You have to drive no matter which site you go to.

In the case of stadiums and convention centers, they can spur some development - hotels and a few bars - but north downtown hasn't really seen much more private investment with Century Link Center and TDA nearby than midtown or south Downtown have without similar facilities. The childrens museum could certainly be a solid addition to the riverfront, but the Y and the library generally cater to local residents and employees. I think there's enough room near the riverfront for a substantial urban neighborhood to take shape, but there are so many things that would have to happen in order to make way for it, not to mention the need for better connectivity, that I just don't see substantial activity adjacent there as compared to the Civic site. The Civic site is already in the CBD where there are many employers as well as residents nearby (which is generally the idea for a city placing its main library downtown), has easy access to other parts of downtown, and perhaps fewer obstacles in the way of further growth.

After listening to the Mayor on Grow Omaha, it sounds like the Library will move here, and a grocery store (Hy-Vee).

Is this the part where we start arguing about appropriate urban aesthetic design? I like what's planned for downtown DM, maybe something along those lines could be drawn up.

Coyote wrote:After listening to the Mayor on Grow Omaha, it sounds like the Library will move here, and a grocery store (Hy-Vee).

The Mayor would like a Hy-Vee there but does Hy-Vee want a Hy-Vee there? Stothert sounded pretty bullish and optimistic in her interview on Grow Omaha. How much of that is reality and how much of it is re-election talk? I still don't know if I can get past HDR. That was seemingly a slam dunk. But maybe she did try everything in her power to no avail. She thinks the downtown situation is rosy but the numbers say otherwise. Isn't the available percentage of office space downtown pretty high? There was no talk about the year-round-market on 10th street either. If that does come to fruition (they have their sign up now), that may scare grocers away from downtown. I personally like the market over a grocery store, although the store might be 24/7 where the market will not.

choke wrote:

Coyote wrote:After listening to the Mayor on Grow Omaha, it sounds like the Library will move here, and a grocery store (Hy-Vee).

The Mayor would like a Hy-Vee there but does Hy-Vee want a Hy-Vee there?

She said they were looking at Downtown. That is why I mentioned Hy-Vee and not Whole Foods which I heard from a Whole Foods Exec that said he wanted to put one Downtown, when the Regency one opened.

Coyote wrote:

choke wrote:

Coyote wrote:After listening to the Mayor on Grow Omaha, it sounds like the Library will move here, and a grocery store (Hy-Vee).

The Mayor would like a Hy-Vee there but does Hy-Vee want a Hy-Vee there?

She said they were looking at Downtown. That is why I mentioned Hy-Vee and not Whole Foods which I heard from a Whole Foods Exec that said he wanted to put one Downtown, when the Regency one opened.

I could definitely see a Whole Foods downtown. Like a glove.

I seem to recall Hy-Vee saying they wanted to put a store downtown in Omaha and were paying for a study before they said any more.

Going off my sometimes not great memory additional points seemed to be something along the line of they liked what they were doing in Downtown Des Moines, and really wanted to build in the downtown area, but they had reservations that Omaha didn't need / want a DT Hy-Vee like Des Moines did.

Athomsfere wrote:I seem to recall Hy-Vee saying they wanted to put a store downtown in Omaha and were paying for a study before they said any more.

Going off my sometimes not great memory additional points seemed to be something along the line of they liked what they were doing in Downtown Des Moines, and really wanted to build in the downtown area, but they had reservations that Omaha didn't need / want a DT Hy-Vee like Des Moines did.

Yeah Hyvee has stated they are very interested in entering the DTO market.

I'd rather have our local Wholner's, Patrick's and the 10th street farmers market than a Hy-Vee servicing downtown.

I like the idea of a Whole Foods/Wholner's full service location downtown. They probably have more "appeal" to an "Urbanist" than Hy-Vee.. But hey, if Hy-Vee wants to build a full service store downtown, I'll take it ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Does anyone have plans for DTO Des Moines Hy-Vee, and if was going to be any different than 'Regular ' model? Have they ever built a high end store?

MTO wrote:I'd rather have our local Wholner's, Patrick's and the 10th street farmers market than a Hy-Vee servicing downtown.

I think with that line up I'd still have to drive to a Hy Vee , Baker's or SuperTarget to finish my shopping. Fairly limited selection.

Greg

The problem isn't the limited selection its the mentality.

SO what possibly could HyVee be doing that would get someone in a bunch and not want them DT, or anywhere for that matter? They are one of the more solid selections IMO.

Nothing wrong with the other selections but HyVee would offer a much more complete option.

Entitled Americans

HyVee is the right fit here. They are a normal grocery store with just enough high end and niche selection to be "cool" enough for a downtown store.

Nothing cool or niche about Hy-Vee not a single thing.

MTO wrote:Nothing cool or niche about Hy-Vee not a single thing.

It's the most popular grocery store in town, would be an amazing addition downtown.

MTO wrote:Nothing cool or niche about Hy-Vee not a single thing.

The solution is simple then. Come up with the $$$ , Sign a lease or purchase / build a building, open a boutique grocery store that fits your desired profile.

The best grocery store in town is at village point but if you can not find enough sustenance to survive at either Patrick's, Wohlner's or the farmer's market then you're stuck in a 50s consumption model.