Rows on South Hill (Johnston & Son Funeral Home)

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:22 pm

Do we know that there weren't other buyers who were outbid by the developer?

I would agree that it isn't a good idea to force tax payers to pay for a building because it is historic, but I do believe that establishing historic preservation districts that limit what you can do with certain properties is a worthwhile endeavor. There may be value to a developer to tear down a historic building and replace it with a fast food restaurant or gas station, but to the neighborhood as a whole, there really isn't. To the city as a whole, there is even less; a visually stimulating building built with a type of craftsmanship not seen anymore, or another Arby's? Too much of this and you end up with a city that no one wants to live in because it has no character and becomes the butt of many jokes.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:30 pm

TitosBuritoBarn wrote: but I do believe that establishing historic preservation districts that limit what you can do with certain properties is a worthwhile endeavor.

The best way of doing that(imo), already exists. There is grant money available for "historic" properties to anyone proposing to restore one. Simply apply with the assessor's office for a historic designation, apply for grant money, and there will be a framework of restoration bylaws created specifically to ensure the property is returned to its original state (or close to).

this is a good incentive for those who own properties of historical significance, and a good way to avoid having your government meddle too deeply in private real estate.

Linkin5 · Post by **Linkin5** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:36 pm

I might be in the minority but I really don't care about an old mortuary house that is trying to sell way above market level. I care about saving Omaha's historic treasures, this is far from one.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:47 pm

A 15-room mansion from the 1880's should be worth saving, but I agree, that its historical significance really only is aesthetical. Not to mention, will likely be hard as heck to sell. I don't know many people who want a 575K funeral home.

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:01 pm

S33 wrote:
TitosBuritoBarn wrote: but I do believe that establishing historic preservation districts that limit what you can do with certain properties is a worthwhile endeavor.
The best way of doing that(imo), already exists. There is grant money available for "historic" properties to anyone proposing to restore one. Simply apply with the assessor's office for a historic designation, apply for grant money, and there will be a framework of restoration bylaws created specifically to ensure the property is returned to its original state (or close to).

this is a good incentive for those who own properties of historical significance, and a good way to avoid having your government meddle too deeply in private real estate.

I agree, but the current grants or credits for rehab are just a one-time deal. Maybe a property tax break or exemption that would keep going on well-maintained historic properties after the rehab is completed, would be a good incentive to save more historic properties. It could be taken into account during valuations by the assessor. Of course it would take some potential tax revenue away from the city/county. ...just an idea. Probably not something legislators want to hear since so many others are clamoring for property tax relief now.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:22 pm

GetUrban wrote: I agree, but the current grants or credits for rehab are just a one-time deal. Maybe a property tax break or exemption that would keep going on well-maintained historic properties after the rehab is completed, would be a good incentive to save more historic properties. It could be taken into account during valuations by the assessor. Of course it would take some potential tax revenue away from the city/county. ...just an idea. Probably not something legislators want to hear since so many others are clamoring for property tax relief now.

Would also be hard to enforce, as you would have to have some sort of inspection process to verify they are meeting the standards for the tax credits, and I'm not sure if that would be just an extension to the assessor's office, or what.

Joe_Sovereign · Post by **Joe_Sovereign** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:19 pm

I wish a developer had bought the house in order to save it all on their own but they did not.

Perhaps in order to save this piece of our city's history the city could have held a competition for ideas for reuse or architectural suggestions for restoration. There are lots of people and architecture firms who would have gladly provided ideas and concept drawings for free. At that point it might have been easier to find a developer interested in investing in the property. The lack of effort to save a historic structure is what I find disturbing. Those last few mansions on 10th street I always thought added wonderful character to the area and contrast so nicely with the newer developments.

DanielBeattyDA · Post by **DanielBeattyDA** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:43 pm

Joe_Sovereign wrote:I wish a developer had bought the house in order to save it all on their own but they did not.

Perhaps in order to save this piece of our city's history the city could have held a competition for ideas for reuse or architectural suggestions for restoration. There are lots of people and architecture firms who would have gladly provided ideas and concept drawings for free. At that point it might have been easier to find a developer interested in investing in the property. The lack of effort to save a historic structure is what I find disturbing. Those last few mansions on 10th street I always thought added wonderful character to the area and contrast so nicely with the newer developments.

This received a good deal of press. I don't believe there were any serious developers in the area who were oblivious to this site being for sale. Look, I know it sucks that this house is going to be lost.....but no developer saw this building as a good investment.

Joe_Sovereign · Post by **Joe_Sovereign** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:25 am

Petition to save historic mansion-turned-mortuary draws hundreds of signatures.

http://www.omaha.com/money/blog/petitio ... mode=story

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:19 am

While yes it's tragic the mansion is being torn down, it's not really the worst thing in the world considering its being replaced by this development. It's a beautiful mansion with beautiful woodwork and the like, but what could it be used for? Most Americans would be far superstitious to live there, and I'm not sure it lends itself to other good development ideas. This certainly isn't the biggest loss Omaha has sustained, not by a long shot, and I think what we're gaining outweighs what we're losing.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:07 pm

Obviously nothing can be done to save it, but I am glad that it at least got some mention and thought.

Joe_Sovereign · Post by **Joe_Sovereign** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:36 pm

Garrett wrote:While yes it's tragic the mansion is being torn down, it's not really the worst thing in the world considering its being replaced by this development. It's a beautiful mansion with beautiful woodwork and the like, but what could it be used for? Most Americans would be far superstitious to live there, and I'm not sure it lends itself to other good development ideas. This certainly isn't the biggest loss Omaha has sustained, not by a long shot, and I think what we're gaining outweighs what we're losing.

It could be used by Grace University which is just a block away. Universities often use old homes for office and meeting space. A private donor could donate it to them or the University could pay a down payment and fund raise for contributions.

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:39 pm

It's good to see such a large outpouring of support for the poor old mansion. Unfortunately, it's fate was probably sealed after conversion to a mortuary with all of the modifications to the exterior. The interior is still fantastic though. But even with a full restoration, it would still not reach the caliber of some of the other historic properties along 10th, such as the Joel Cornish house.

But, one by one the loss of each of these pieces of our history has a cumulative effect eroding away the architectural heritage of Omaha. It's arguable whether the proposed replacement is as good as what came before, in my opinion. At least there will be a new influx of people living in the location which will help revitalize 10th st. So there are trade-offs.

Also, I tried to find photos of the Kountze house before the conversion to mortuary, with no luck.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:00 pm

Yes, the Cornish house is amazing. Is the brick building, to the right in the photo, attached to the house?

I would also like to see pictures of the Kountze house before the vinyl siding was added. Does anyone know if it is brick underneath?

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:14 pm

skinzfan23 wrote:Yes, the Cornish house is amazing. Is the brick building, to the right in the photo, attached to the house?

I would also like to see pictures of the Kountze house before the vinyl siding was added. Does anyone know if it is brick underneath?

Yeah from Google Earth, I can see the brick building to the right is attached to the Cornish House. Still a cool house though.

I think Kountze didn't live there for too long, so maybe there is another name associated with the house after that, but before Johnston. I looked in the Online Durham Museum photos to no avail.

bigredmed · Post by **bigredmed** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:34 pm

The Cornish house is historic for Omaha as it is this city's first apartment building. It was never a private home that was converted.

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:09 pm

bigredmed wrote:The Cornish house is historic for Omaha as it is this city's first apartment building. It was never a private home that was converted.

Hmmmm....I read that it was built in 1886 as a single family dwelling, with the addition and conversion to apartments occurring in 1911 after the Cornish family moved out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_N._Cornish_House

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:17 pm

Not saying that the funeral home deserves this but I did find this interesting house in Chicago was recently moved.
Historic Rees House loaded up, ready for big move

The historic Harriet F. Rees House, a fixture at 2110 S. Prairie Ave. for 126 years, already has been loaded onto dollies and is waiting to be moved to its new perch a block away and across the street.
The move is part of Emanuel's plan to build the McCormick Place entertainment district, which will include a basketball arena for DePaul University, a 1,200-room Marriott hotel and a retail development.

The house, built in 1888 by Rees, widow of real estate pioneer and land surveyor James H. Rees, is the last structure standing on the 2100 block of South Prairie. The house was granted landmark status in 2012 by the Commission on Chicago Landmarks.

Moving the 762-ton house will be a monumental job, involving 29 remote-controlled hydraulic dollies with a total of 232 wheels. The total weight, including equipment, is 1,050 tons

The article also says that the relocation is one of the heaviest in US history.

bigredmed · Post by **bigredmed** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:21 pm

GetUrban wrote:
bigredmed wrote:The Cornish house is historic for Omaha as it is this city's first apartment building. It was never a private home that was converted.

Hmmmm....I read that it was built in 1886 as a single family dwelling, with the addition and conversion to apartments occurring in 1911 after the Cornish family moved out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_N._Cornish_House

I was taught in my Nebraska History class that this was Omaha's first apartment building. Thanks.

Lillian Bean · Post by **Lillian Bean** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:47 pm

Comment from Ben Phillips who started the petition: "According to sources I have spoken to, Clarity will not do the project at 10th and William if they do not get $1.1 million in TIF or Tax-increment funding. In order for Clarity to get their TIF, they have to first go in front of the Omaha planning board than the City Council. The next meeting for the Omaha planning board is Wednesday March 4th at 1:30 pm at City Hall; so please be there for your support and to voice your opposition."

It is interesting timing with the recent article about how TIF has "run amok."

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:47 pm

Lillian Bean wrote:Comment from Ben Phillips who started the petition: "According to sources I have spoken to, Clarity will not do the project at 10th and William if they do not get $1.1 million in TIF or Tax-increment funding. In order for Clarity to get their TIF, they have to first go in front of the Omaha planning board than the City Council. The next meeting for the Omaha planning board is Wednesday March 4th at 1:30 pm at City Hall; so please be there for your support and to voice your opposition."

It is interesting timing with the recent article about how TIF has "run amok."

It will be interesting to see what happens to the house if they don't get the TIF. Still a chance it could be saved, I guess.

It seems like they have a good chance of getting TIF though, considering TD Ameritrade got it for their new building in Old Mill. It's much more arguable whether the Old Mill site was really "blighted" by the TIF standards. TD had a lot of pull though.

redhotchili2333 · Post by **redhotchili2333** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:12 pm

My architect friend said shutting down TIF wouldn't stop anything. They would just demolish the building and sell the land-probably to some boring apartment builder.

Besides almost every one of the preservation projects in town use TIF. Putting the one mechanism that saves our buildings on trial would be a very bad idea if we want to save any more buildings in this city.

It sucks its coming down but I like that new families will be moving into our urbanizing city. It would be a shame to shut down urban development in Omaha.

Joe_Sovereign · Post by **Joe_Sovereign** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:24 pm

The best solution would be to save the house and get the developer to build the row houses elsewhere in the area. There would need to be a use for the house, I think Grace University is an obvious option, they could reuse the house as office space with little renovation. There would need to be a land swap with the developer and possible some money to sweeten the deal if the new location is less desirable. This would obviously require the City, Grace University, a cooperative developer, and most likely some outside money

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:31 pm

TIF request for the row homes in front of the Planning Board.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:53 pm

Joe_Sovereign wrote:
Garrett wrote:While yes it's tragic the mansion is being torn down, it's not really the worst thing in the world considering its being replaced by this development. It's a beautiful mansion with beautiful woodwork and the like, but what could it be used for? Most Americans would be far superstitious to live there, and I'm not sure it lends itself to other good development ideas. This certainly isn't the biggest loss Omaha has sustained, not by a long shot, and I think what we're gaining outweighs what we're losing.

It could be used by Grace University which is just a block away. Universities often use old homes for office and meeting space. A private donor could donate it to them or the University could pay a down payment and fund raise for contributions.

pump the breaks, Joe. If something needs to be donated with someone else's money in order to save it, then I say tear it down. At that point, you're basically just in charity architecture, and that only benefits whomever it was given to.

Midwestern · Post by **Midwestern** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:43 pm

I'm somewhere in the middle on all this preserve vs. non-preservation talk.

Omaha has lost a lot of treasures over the years (post office, hotel Fontenelle, old WOW tower, some of the JC buildings, etc....) but I don't think it's realistic that every last example of history end up being saved. We shouldn't over-react to every little thing just because we've lost so much in the past.

So with that being said, I don't necessarily mind seeing this one go. If there is some beautiful brick masterpiece that we are unaware of under that ugly siding then I guess that would help its case.

The interior is beautiful but if almost nobody gets to see that anyway, then what's the point?

I do place very high value on the merits of having good architecture around, but this just isn't it.

And lastly, having increased density and investment in this area would help in the future to place more value on keeping things like the Cornish House and other 10th street treasures around.

Post by **Coyote** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:47 pm

Midwestern wrote:The interior is beautiful but if almost nobody gets to see that anyway, then what's the point?

I hear they have interior room views to die for.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:12 pm

Coyote wrote:
Midwestern wrote:The interior is beautiful but if almost nobody gets to see that anyway, then what's the point?
I hear they have interior room views to die for.

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:02 pm

skinzfan23 wrote:Not saying that the funeral home deserves this but I did find this interesting house in Chicago was recently moved.
Historic Rees House loaded up, ready for big move

The historic Harriet F. Rees House, a fixture at 2110 S. Prairie Ave. for 126 years, already has been loaded onto dollies and is waiting to be moved to its new perch a block away and across the street.
The move is part of Emanuel's plan to build the McCormick Place entertainment district, which will include a basketball arena for DePaul University, a 1,200-room Marriott hotel and a retail development.

The house, built in 1888 by Rees, widow of real estate pioneer and land surveyor James H. Rees, is the last structure standing on the 2100 block of South Prairie. The house was granted landmark status in 2012 by the Commission on Chicago Landmarks.

Moving the 762-ton house will be a monumental job, involving 29 remote-controlled hydraulic dollies with a total of 232 wheels. The total weight, including equipment, is 1,050 tons

The article also says that the relocation is one of the heaviest in US history.

There was a story in the Chicago Tribune today about another house that was being moved in Evanston. A preservationist apparently made a deal with a developer who bought the property and intended to tear down the house to purchase it for $10 and move it for $85,000. So it may not be such a far fetched idea for preservationists to buy endangered properties. Granted they move them.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/e ... tml#page=1

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:44 pm

Just about anything can be moved...

Moving the Shubert Theater - Minneapolis

Seth · Post by **Seth** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:51 pm

Archimedes wrote:Give me a lever and a place to stand and I will move the earth.

Post by **Coyote** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:25 pm

Seth wrote:
Archimedes wrote:Give me a lever and a place to stand and I will move the earth.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:51 pm

Preservation doesn't need to be legislated if enough of the city and it's people give a |expletive|. Austin has brand new high dollar apartment/condo buildings right next to dumpy old shacks and one story buildings. I have seen too man projects down here that are building around the little old buildings to count. What's going to change the culture is if people start demanding projects that get creative and dont spend their money at places that tear down the old.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:13 pm

Demo has begun.

mattl181 · Post by **mattl181** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:34 pm

The Instagram page @eastof72nd (which I would highly recommend following if you are so inclined) posted a picture tonight of the mansion completely demolished

Post by **Brad** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:43 pm

Wow, that was quick!

Joe_Sovereign · Post by **Joe_Sovereign** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:41 am

Well in 130 years I am sure these cookie cutter row homes will be a historic landmark, so we have that to look forward to. It is not like there are any surface lots, abandoned industrial buildings, or neighborhoods of run-down post war track homes in the area that could have been used for this project. I am happy to see the type of homes that are being built in this place but tearing down one of the few remaining 130 year old mansions in the area to do it is bad for the city.

Joe_Sovereign · Post by **Joe_Sovereign** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:56 am

It is too bad we couldn't have found a use for the house and built the row houses somewhere else.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:22 am

Not to mention, I doubt with the materials they are using, the row houses will stand the test of time for 130 years like the house did.

bigredmed · Post by **bigredmed** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:44 pm

The house was nice, but realistically, could you really see a single family moving into it? Think about it's location and consider that your kids could not play in the front yard or back yard for traffic or Sons of Italy parking issues. You really wouldn't have a private back yard.

The house was great. The house would have had to have a Hazmat inspection and given it's age and what it was used for, the odds of failure of the inspection with costly repairs needed are pretty good.

So that is bad enough, but then you buy a house that has some historical factor to it, and suddenly you can't pick a paint color, window treatment, or house plant without getting prior approval by a group of government backed busy bodies who can decree anything they want without ever paying for it. I certainly would rather drop massive coin on a new McMansion rather than an old McMansion just to avoid the need to have my choice in toilet paper pre approved by 2 different committees.

This house would have gone down a long time ago had our current overzealous regulatory structure been in place when the funeral home bought it. They would never have got permission to change the Kountze family mansion into a funeral home.