Holland's Greenspace

Downtown, Midtown, and all parts east of 72nd.

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GetUrban
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by GetUrban »

If OPAS get's their way and they build the parking garage/multi-use space first on the east end as they say they'll do, their patrons will have a heck-of-a-time walking to the Holland center, while the second performance space is built in between.

Also, tell me how they could possibly get their parking garage/multi-use building built before HDR takes their surface parking. I would bet that the east end of the block will just be a big surface lot for at least 2-3 years if not longer. They said they haven't even started raising money yet.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
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iamjacobm
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by iamjacobm »

I am pretty sure that it would be "temporary" surface parking until HDR is finished.
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Coyote
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Coyote »

SO maybe I have missed this, but, who presently parks on the HDR lot that will be displaced until their parking garage is built?
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skinzfan23
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by skinzfan23 »

Coyote wrote:SO maybe I have missed this, but, who presently parks on the HDR lot that will be displaced until their parking garage is built?
Sounds like some World Herald employees.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Coyote »

skinzfan23 wrote:
Coyote wrote:SO maybe I have missed this, but, who presently parks on the HDR lot that will be displaced until their parking garage is built?
Sounds like some World Herald employees.
So it is only the OWH and Gottschalk that see the need right now for parking
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GetUrban
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by GetUrban »

Doesn't National Indemnity have some people moving into the OWH building, or was that the Landmark bldg?

Oh, and here's the Specht's big sister in SOHO...along with a whole family of cast iron facades. I wonder if OPAS would destroy these too, if they had the chance...We don't get to have original buildings like this in Omaha much longer.
Image
Last edited by GetUrban on Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
Joe_Sovereign
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Joe_Sovereign »

Coyote wrote:
skinzfan23 wrote:
Coyote wrote:SO maybe I have missed this, but, who presently parks on the HDR lot that will be displaced until their parking garage is built?
Sounds like some World Herald employees.
So it is only the OWH and Gottschalk that see the need right now for parking
The Omaha World Herald owns two parking garages both less than two blocks from the Holland's Front Door. The parking garage attached to the OWH building exits 1/2 a block from the Front Entrance of the Holland and the parking garage at 12th and Capital is one block from the back of the Holland. Both of these lots are mostly empty after 5pm.
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Coyote
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Coyote »

GetUrban wrote:Doesn't National Indemnity have some people moving into the OWH building, or was that the Landmark bldg?
YEs, they have been renovating (the 8th floor) for NICO
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by SwedishChef »

This story has riled me up enough to emerge from my longtime lurker status.

Quick background: I'm in my mid-to-late twenties. I work for a high-profile company here in town and do a "sexy" type of STEM work. Most of my career field is centered out in Silicon Valley, Boulder, Seattle, Portland, Austin, i.e., popular tech hub destinations. I could easily go to those places if I wanted to (and almost did), but I decided to stay in Omaha for several reasons.

One of them is that I think the city has an incredible amount of potential, and I believe we're at a crossroads that will determine if we ever reach that potential. I want to be in on it. I desperately want to be proud of this city.

It's stories like this, though, that make me more and more cynical. Considering the public lamentations and reopening of the Jobber's Canyon wounds not even a month ago, how is it even possible that we're having this discussion? Plus it's, ironically, an arts venue making the call; one would think they'd be the first ones denouncing a plan like this.

Omaha's next 30-40 years of economic and cultural development is going to sink or swim based on the outward reputation it builds. You have an entire generation coming into the workforce whose sensibilities about urban living, working, playing have shifted dramatically from the previous two generations. It's not even a "Oh, those young liberal kids, they haven't figured it out yet!" dynamic -- my husband and I are just pragmatic realists. For instance, I desperately do not want to spend 30+ minutes twice a day commuting to/from work from the 'burbs. It's a waste of my precious time and money. Plus I don't want to pay increasingly egregious property taxes to pay for unsustainable infrastructure.

I just want to have confidence that city leaders have a vision for the way forward. You have to see the forest for the trees. In my line of work, I have to think big-picture first in order to understand and act on the minute details. Debates like this one do not inspire much confidence, but instead show a lack of big-picture vision, moral fibre, and leadership. And granted, I'm young and perhaps naive, and there are likely bigger things at play here that I don't know about. But just on its face, this stinks out loud.

Yeesh, just looking at the site on Google gives me several alternatives (and some snarky comments):

Image

Unless they've done something utilitarian with it recently (that I don't know about), how about filling in that unused donut-hole patch of grass right in the middle of the freaking building? How many square feet does that add, especially if you stacked some floors? Jeeze.

I'm not rooted enough in my life yet (no kids, no mortgage) that I can decide to up and leave the city for good if I'm displeased with the direction it's going. I'm of course not the only one. I really, really don't want it to come to that.
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skinzfan23
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by skinzfan23 »

Thanks for your input SwedishChef. I agree with everything you said. I moved away for about 3 years and moved back for the same reason you are staying here. I see how much potential Omaha has and want to be a part of the progressive ways. Being progressive, does not mean forgetting about the past. I am getting fed up about city leaders not caring about all the old structures that still in the city. I feel that they just jump anytime there is an announcement of something getting built, even if it means tearing down history. These old buildings are the fabric of the community and if we tear them down, we will never be able to bring them back. Like you mentioned, I cannot believe this is even a discussion after so recently opening the wounds of ConAgra tearing down Jobbers Canyon.
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skinzfan23
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by skinzfan23 »

Here is another image of the current buildings:

Image
Tornado
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Tornado »

SwedishChef, Thanks for that great read. I too find it hard to believe that tearing these buildings down is even being considered, especially with all the room the Holland currently has between the existing center and these historic buildings. Every new development in this city apparently has to take up the entire |expletive| block.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by lmdramos »

http://dc.curbed.com/archives/2015/11/6 ... t.php#more

Here's a great project about incorporating old buildings into new construction in DC. Obviously something this large is never going to happen in Omaha but dos to show saving old buildings while incorporating new modern ones is being done all around the country and should be done in Omaha.
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GetUrban
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

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lmdramos wrote:http://dc.curbed.com/archives/2015/11/6 ... t.php#more

Here's a great project about incorporating old buildings into new construction in DC. Obviously something this large is never going to happen in Omaha but dos to show saving old buildings while incorporating new modern ones is being done all around the country and should be done in Omaha.
That's a great example, and much more complex than what they would have to do to save the buildings east of the Holland. It can be done! all they really need to do is build right up to the Specht, and leave access behind it. They could throw in a spot for Frankie Pane's while they're at it. Nobody ever mentions Frankie Pane's little strip of property in this discussion.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
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Bosco55David
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Bosco55David »

Wow...this has really turned into a huge soap opera.

Personally, I hope the buildings get preserved just to upset off the OPA, who are coming across as real assholes in this whole situation.
nebraska0490
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by nebraska0490 »

I would encourage everyone to write to city council members and the mayor with their thoughts and opinions on this issue if they have not already done so.

Pete Festersen – pete.festersen@cityofomaha.org
Ben Gray – ben.gray@cityofomaha.org
Chris Jerram – chris.jerram@cityofomaha.org
Garry Gernandt – garry.gernandt@cityofomaha.org
Rich Pahls – rich.pahls@cityofomaha.org
Franklin Thompson – franklin.thompson@cityofomaha.org
Aimee Melton – aimeemelton@cityofomaha.org
Jean Stothert – mayorstothert@cityofomaha.org


There is also a petition posted by Restoration Exchange: https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/sav ... t-building
Sign it. Share it. Spread the word to everyone you know.

I can relate a lot to what Swedishchef has to say... but I, in fact, moved away from Omaha to begin my career as an urban planner in Boston. Reasons like this issue are why I and much of my friends have left Omaha once becoming young adults. Lack of opportunity in certain fields, a non-progressive attitude (when it comes to historic preservation and culture), low density blocks that lacks a sense of “place”, and large companies monopolizing creativity, construction, and built work. It is my hope that something positive will come of this, but issues like this one make me realize that Omaha is not a good fit (nor probably ever will be) as a creative professional.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by mr. omaha »

Every time Omaha demos a building a bully gets his way.
Last edited by mr. omaha on Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
NovakOmaha
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by NovakOmaha »

Stay classy, OPA. Way to go after out-of-the-box thinking. They have a covered drive thru so the blue hairs can exit in comfort without having to interact with the unwashed masses and that isn't good enough.
You really can't blame gottchalk. Coming from the local monopoly fishwrap he's used to getting his way.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Professor Woland »

Could the buildings be moved to that lot on the east side of Tenth Street between Dodge and Capitol? I don't know how feasible or expensive such a move would be, but it could provide for a win win situation. The buildings would look better on that lot than their current location where they look out of place, the Holland could expand and everything would be groovy.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by RNcyanide »

Professor Woland wrote:Could the buildings be moved to that lot on the east side of Tenth Street between Dodge and Capitol? I don't know how feasible or expensive such a move would be, but it could provide for a win win situation. The buildings would look better on that lot than their current location where they look out of place, the Holland could expand and everything would be groovy.
If that's not feasible, I wonder if they could dismantle the Specht building's cast-iron facade, demolish the building, and build another building with the same dimensions elsewhere downtown and re-install the facade.
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GetUrban
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by GetUrban »

RNcyanide wrote:
Professor Woland wrote:Could the buildings be moved to that lot on the east side of Tenth Street between Dodge and Capitol? I don't know how feasible or expensive such a move would be, but it could provide for a win win situation. The buildings would look better on that lot than their current location where they look out of place, the Holland could expand and everything would be groovy.
If that's not feasible, I wonder if they could dismantle the Specht building's cast-iron facade, demolish the building, and build another building with the same dimensions elsewhere downtown and re-install the facade.
Sure it could be done....The Shubert theater in MPLS was moved..
https://vimeo.com/17810387
I hope it doesn't get to that point. The city owns that lot the professor mentioned. The Specht facade will at least be saved, I'll bet. Still can't believe we're taking about this.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Professor Woland »

GetUrban wrote:
RNcyanide wrote:
Professor Woland wrote:Could the buildings be moved to that lot on the east side of Tenth Street between Dodge and Capitol? I don't know how feasible or expensive such a move would be, but it could provide for a win win situation. The buildings would look better on that lot than their current location where they look out of place, the Holland could expand and everything would be groovy.
If that's not feasible, I wonder if they could dismantle the Specht building's cast-iron facade, demolish the building, and build another building with the same dimensions elsewhere downtown and re-install the facade.
Sure it could be done....The Shubert theater in MPLS was moved..
https://vimeo.com/17810387
I hope it doesn't get to that point. The city owns that lot the professor mentioned. The Specht facade will at least be saved, I'll bet. Still can't believe we're taking about this.
We live in a world where getting the fifth best option is usually a win. If the property owners sell (either of their own free will or because the threat of eminent domain hangs over them) it would be great to find a way to save the buildings.
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GetUrban
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by GetUrban »

It would actually be good to have the buildings nestled back into a context similar to their original, pre Campbell's soup era. But there are many successful examples of the most cutting-edge design juxtaposed against historical architecture. I'm going to hold-on to that hope for now, but I don't think HDR or OPAS has that in mind for the Holand expansion yet.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by ricko »

lmdramos wrote:http://dc.curbed.com/archives/2015/11/6 ... t.php#more

Here's a great project about incorporating old buildings into new construction in DC. Obviously something this large is never going to happen in Omaha but dos to show saving old buildings while incorporating new modern ones is being done all around the country and should be done in Omaha.
The fact that this kind of thinking has been going on in the District for 60 years makes it especially frustrating to watch Omaha's bone-headed leadership shoot itself in the foot. When Jobber's Canyon was demolished, I was living in DC and my boyfriend at the time, who had never been to Omaha, gave me a bunch of cr@p about it----it even made the Washington Post.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by SaOmaha »

Why can't the old builting om the east of the Holland block be use for office & classroom? It would be would more of challenge than clear & new construction,
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by swgiust »

Can somebody tell me which one of these councilman represents the actual district where this is happening?

Pete Festersen – pete.festersen@cityofomaha.org
Ben Gray – ben.gray@cityofomaha.org
Chris Jerram – chris.jerram@cityofomaha.org
Garry Gernandt – garry.gernandt@cityofomaha.org
Rich Pahls – rich.pahls@cityofomaha.org
Franklin Thompson – franklin.thompson@cityofomaha.org
Aimee Melton – aimeemelton@cityofomaha.org
Jean Stothert – mayorstothert@cityofomaha.org
nebraska0490
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by nebraska0490 »

That would be district three, Chris Jerram – chris.jerram@cityofomaha.org

Here is a map:
http://citycouncil.cityofomaha.org/imag ... 206-13.pdf
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GetUrban
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by GetUrban »

nebraska0490 wrote:That would be district three, Chris Jerram – chris.jerram@cityofomaha.org

Here is a map:
http://citycouncil.cityofomaha.org/imag ... 206-13.pdf
I'd write to all of them, since they'll all eventually be voting on it.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by lmdramos »

OWH reporting that the owners of the buildings have agreed to sell to the City of Omaha for $10 Million...that was quick.
Last edited by lmdramos on Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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iamjacobm
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by iamjacobm »

http://www.omaha.com/money/owners-agree ... 7b810.html
Private property owners who own three buildings at 11th and Douglas Streets have agreed to sell the properties to the City of Omaha, clearing the way for HDR Inc. to build a new headquarters downtown.

Mayor Jean Stothert announced Thursday that the city will buy the properties and give them to Omaha Performing Arts, which operates the Holland Center.

In exchange, she said, OPA must agree to sell a parking lot a block to the north to HDR, where the company plans to build its new international headquarters.
The city will spend $10 million to acquire the three properties and use redevelopment bonds to finance the purchase.
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iamjacobm
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by iamjacobm »

Sorry but why the |expletive| is the city spending $10 million of our tax money to buy the property to give it to OPA? Then the OPA gets to make a profit off selling their lot to HDR. What a joke.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by RNcyanide »

Really, though, who here was surprised at all? Yet another disappointment in this whole situation.
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.

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Coyote
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Coyote »

Because HDR didn't want to wait to aquire OPA land,
Which wouldn't sell unless they got all of this property in return,
so the city steps in so they wouldn't lose HDR and upset OPA?
The Omaha Oligarchy wins another round.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by RNcyanide »

Coyote wrote:Because HDR didn't want to wait to aquire OPA land,
Which wouldn't sell unless they got all of this property in return,
so the city steps in so they wouldn't lose HDR and upset OPA?
The Omaha Oligarchy wins another round.
Did you intentionally organize this like a poem?
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.

The Bride
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GetUrban
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by GetUrban »

I can't say I'm surprised, considering the rumors floating around for the last couple of months that the owners were up to something of their own and couldn't get OPAS/HDR to go along, so they took the 10 mil instead.

This sucks, but what do you expect? It's been this way in Omaha for at least the last 50 years. What's next to go, the Old Market? I guess anything without an Aksarben King's name on it is fair game.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
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skinzfan23
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by skinzfan23 »

Another sad day in Omaha's history.
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skinzfan23
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by skinzfan23 »

For what its worth, here is a petition to save the buildings.

https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/sav ... t-building
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Linkin5
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Linkin5 »

Holland Center or OPA will never see a penny of my money ever.
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iamjacobm
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by iamjacobm »

Linkin5 wrote:Holland Center or OPA will never see a penny of my money ever.
Except for your share of that $10 million in DT property they are getting for free of course.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

I like how one of the owners admired the interest from the public in saving the Sprecht building even though he's part of why it'll be torn down.

|expletive| [expletive].
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