Holland's Greenspace

[Coyote]

Tombstones in a graveyard for felled buildings.

[MTO]

I'm just brainstorming for OPA.

[SaveTheOCHClocktower]

I agree that assessed value for tax purposes and fair market value are two completely different things. But 10 times different?

This morning's paper says that the Christian Specht building offer of $3.4 million includes $600,000.00 in "relocation fees." What do the relocation fees consist of? The Specht building is occupied by one tenant, Julia Russell Interior Designs. The building is 22 feet wide and 120 feet deep. Julia has design fabric and materials stored in the basement and a showroom on the first floor. There is no machinery or other equipment to be moved or replaced. The Happy Hollow Coffee building has a residential tenant and the Mayor is paying $600,000.00 in "relocation fees" for that one also. Why?

There is something other than "fair market value" going on here. You are being somewhat disingenuous if you will not acknowledge this.

[mattl181]

The mayor, OPA and everyone else involved does not seem to want an open and transparent discussion about this. After posting my concerns on the mayor's Facebook page, I was swiftly blocked. I had a friend that was also blocked after complaining of the mayor's bullying response to her question. It's a shame, but I think these buildings were gone even before the announcement was made and she now seems intent on containing the outrage that has ensued.

[daveoma]

The mayor, OPA and everyone else involved does not seem to want an open and transparent discussion about this. After posting my concerns on the mayor's Facebook page, I was swiftly blocked. I had a friend that was also blocked after complaining of the mayor's bullying response to her question. It's a shame, but I think these buildings were gone even before the announcement was made and she now seems intent on containing the outrage that has ensued.

Suppressing the voices of the people? Scary.

[iamjacobm]

Tombstones in a graveyard for felled buildings.

Just put it in the lobby of the Holland like the Medical Arts facade at FNB.

[jessep28]

The mayor, OPA and everyone else involved does not seem to want an open and transparent discussion about this. After posting my concerns on the mayor's Facebook page, I was swiftly blocked. I had a friend that was also blocked after complaining of the mayor's bullying response to her question. It's a shame, but I think these buildings were gone even before the announcement was made and she now seems intent on containing the outrage that has ensued.

Social media isn't the only way to contact the mayor's office. The people whom you and your fellow preservationists need to be harassing anyways are Omaha City Council members. They are the ones who will approving the purchase.

[PotatoeEatsFish]

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[PotatoeEatsFish]

Or toss the facade(s) across the street to front the park like that front on the south side of the park.

Maybe they could add it to the front entrance of the library. It would make the building look a little less ugly.

[GRANDPASMUCKER]

The mayor, OPA and everyone else involved does not seem to want an open and transparent discussion about this. After posting my concerns on the mayor's Facebook page, I was swiftly blocked. I had a friend that was also blocked after complaining of the mayor's bullying response to her question. It's a shame, but I think these buildings were gone even before the announcement was made and she now seems intent on containing the outrage that has ensued.

Has there ever been a forum or web site in the history of the internet that actually allowed opinions or conversations that might differ from the owner or moderator of the forum? I'll answer that for ya with a big fat NO! Dream on. I'm sure the Mayor has lots better things to do then police that stupid facebook page. Some goof who needs a life and a reason to live is guarding that facebook page like a loyal doberman chained to the back door. Back to the subject at hand those 3 buildings are a joke and semi useless and are going to be destroyed like they should have been 50 years ago and then we are going to try to move into the future. I wish Trump was our mayor because you know he would of got those 3 rundown buildings for 5 million.

[Coyote]

Has there ever been a forum or web site in the history of the internet that actually allowed opinions or conversations that might differ from the owner or moderator of the forum? I'll answer that for ya with a big fat NO! Dream on.

Ahem. You are still here...

[GetUrban]

C'mon, show some ReSpecht, Mr. Schmucker!....what do we exSpecht coming from you though.

[jessep28]

It's probably a staffer running Stothert's social media accounts. My guess is that they are simply trying to keep things from turning into a dumpster fire. Is heavy moderation a good thing for a public official's social media page? Maybe not, but constituents may actually go there to find information, and it's not fair to them to have to sort through trolls, people picking fights on the internet, and individuals who repeat the same talking points.

[Uffda]

Has there ever been a forum or web site in the history of the internet that actually allowed opinions or conversations that might differ from the owner or moderator of the forum? I'll answer that for ya with a big fat NO! Dream on.

Ahem. You are still here...

LOL

[mattl181]

It's probably a staffer running Stothert's social media accounts. My guess is that they are simply trying to keep things from turning into a dumpster fire. Is heavy moderation a good thing for a public official's social media page? Maybe not, but constituents may actually go there to find information, and it's not fair to them to have to sort through trolls, people picking fights on the internet, and individuals who repeat the same talking points.

I can assure you that I was not trolling, harassing or ranting and raving. Simply stating my opinion. For a mayor that claims to want to interact with the public and keep things transparent, it's just a little disappointing that I and others have been cut off from an avenue to do so.

That said, I know there are other ways to contact those involved, and believe me that has been done

[iamjacobm]

Restoration Exchange reporting that OPA has reached out to them to start a dialogue about the building's future.

[GetUrban]

Restoration Exchange reporting that OPA has reached out to them to start a dialogue about the building's future.

Yeah, I noticed that on Restoration Exchange Omaha's website/FB page. That is good news. They should really push for a modification of the purchase agreement to include verbiage that the buildings won't be demolished, before the Omaha City Council votes on it. I think there is actually more leverage to save the buildings now, if the city buys them with public money, than if they had been sold directly from the owners to OPA.

[Bosco55David]

It will be quite interesting if these buildings (or at least the Specht building) can be relocated and preserved.

[Seth]

It will be quite interesting if these buildings (or at least the Specht building) can be relocated and preserved.

I agree. As much as I love old buildings (and that's more than most), it's not the only factor to consider here. The Spect building is the only one of the three that retains much character anymore, and it's honestly pretty lonesome on this block. The real loss happened decades ago when this entire block was cleared out.

If the facade can be preserved and integrated into either the new structure that OPA is planning (or at least telling us they're planning), or relocated to a more fitting location, I'd be happy. I would actually love to see it rebuilt somewhere in Old Market where it would be in more relevant context. It would be an expensive option, but with the right incentives, it might just be feasible.

I think something a lot of people are missing here is what function the future structure here will serve. Some have touched on it here (and elsewhere), but it hasn't gotten much attention; OPA is proposing another big superblock structure with very limited use on a site fronting the GLM. I think that's the biggest potential loss here, especially if the alternative could be a more varied mixed-use commercial district. That's what this site really needs to connect OM, DT, and Capitol District together.

[Midwestern]

Why would someone want to [currently] open a restaurant or a non-niche store in the Holland Greenspace area? You would get virtually zero evening traffic except on performance nights at Holland.

This will all change though once the Capitol District + HDR's ground-level retail parking garage are built. So I hope nothing drastic is decided on the historic buildings before people get a chance to see that corridor actually come alive for once.

The stipulation for this $10 million city-deal should be that the Specht Building be re-located, and possibly the Happy Hollow Coffee building. The Alvine building wouldn't be worth the cost to move, IMO.

Somewhere along 10th street would be the best location to move them to. I still think 10th & Dodge would be the best fit. They would fit in well with the surrounding buildings, and that's not too terribly far of a move.

If it comes to building a new brick structure to put the facade of Specht on, then somewhere in the Old Market would be fabulous.

[PotatoeEatsFish]

Looking on the Omaha master plan for downtown you can see Holland had a planned expansion. Only in this one it left the old buildings alone.

[Finn]

The city, OPA and HDR should work to make this a true partnership. HDR is a nationally respected architecture firm. Their design services should be an integral part of the deal and come up with a design that incorporates the historical buildings (or at least the facades) into the new parking structure. Incorporating historical structures into new buildings is common in major cities and seems to be an idea that Omaha has not yet embraced, but should with an architectural firm that has undoubtedly worked on such projects across the nation. HDR worked on Aksarben Village, incorporating ground floor commercial uses into parking garages. They should use this opportunity as a portfolio project of maintaining and combining historical structures into new design.

[SaveTheOCHClocktower]

I am still trying to wrap my head around how much Mayor Stothert is paying Todd Simon for his land and buildings. Frankie Pane's vacant lot which adjoins the Specht building was reportedly recently purchased by an agent of OPA for $305,900.00. The Frankie Pane lot, at 3,220 square feet, is almost identical in size and layout to the Specht lot. $305,900.00 divided by 3,220 results in a land value of $95.00 per square foot.

The Specht building sits on 2,904 square feet of land which multiplied times $95.00 per square foot results in a land value of $275,880.00. The Mayor Stothert price for the Specht building of $3,400,000.00 less the land value of $275,880.00 results in a building only price of $3,124,120.00. $3,124,120.00 divided by the Specht building square footage of 7,920 results in a building price of $394.46 per square foot.

The Happy Hollow Coffee building sits on 4,752 square feet of land which multiplied times $95.00 per square foot results in a land value of $451,440.00. The Mayor Stothert price for the Happy Hollow Coffee building of $2,600,000.00 less the land value of $451,440.00 results in a building only price of $2,148,560.00. $2,148,560.00 divided by the Happy Hollow Coffee building square footage of 5,147 results in a building price of $417.44 per square foot.

In his 11/5/15 press release, with apparent unintended irony, Todd Simon was quoted as saying: "We are thrilled that everyone acknowledges the historic significance of the Specht building." This evokes a philosophy of "historic preservation subject to a capitalistic happy ending." During the height of the 2002 anti-eminent domain lawsuit filed by Todd Simon and Frankie Pane against OPA, a 2/22/02 World-Herald article stated that "Owners of the old buildings being sought for the proposed Omaha performing arts center have made a number of offers to end the stalemate - including selling their properties for a hefty premium." The 2/22/02 article revealed that Todd Simon had described his position in two simple statements: "The properties are not for sale. Any reasonable offer will be considered."

I think it is time to disband the Omaha Landmarks Heritage Preservation Commission and, once and for all, publicly declare Omaha to be a "Preservation Free Zone."

[SaveTheOCHClocktower]

Please understand that an Omaha "Preservation Free Zone" is not my desire. It's just that after 30 years of beating my head against this issue I have become a realist about how this town is run. I am tired of being one of the preservation sign-toting "usual suspects" rounded up to put "window-dressing" on the failure of long-range vision in this town. I am done standing by as another unique, worthy piece of our history tumbles into dust.

I fervently hope that the new generation can figure out a better way. As a bow to them, I offer ReSpecht.

[jessep28]

I am still trying to wrap my head around how much Mayor Stothert is paying Todd Simon for his land and buildings.

Proposing to pay. Again, the city council has to approve the deal. No money has been disbursed.

[skinzfan23]

Wonder how this will play out:
Omaha Performing Arts hires HDR to help design Holland Center expansion

Omaha Performing Arts has hired HDR Inc. for pre-design work on a mixed-use building that would be built as part of the expansion of the Holland Performing Arts Center.
The building, which is set to include more than 500 parking spots, would rise on a site that contains three century-old buildings whose possible demolition has sparked controversy.
In the meantime, OPA Chairman John Gottschalk pledged to work with community groups on the fate of the three buildings.
“We’re not going to do this unilaterally,” Gottschalk told The World-Herald. “We don’t have that kind of reputation. We’re not czars of downtown real estate. That’s crazy stuff.”

[Coyote]

We should just auction off the frontispiece.

[OutoftheCanyon]

We should just auction off the frontispiece.

The city should auction off his seat on the planning board.

[GetUrban]

We should just auction off the frontispiece.

I'm sure that's already what Gottschalk has in mind. It's pretty clear toward the end of the OWH article he doesn't see a way the buildings can be saved. If they keep insisting on providing a 500-stall parking garage, they'll need 175,000 to 200,000 square feet (at 350-400 sf per stall) just for that. He acts like none of the space in the existing buildings could be used at all by OPA. They haven't really given much detail on what their space program needs are though, beyond parking, a second performance space and a "performing arts high school", and maybe admin offices. I doubt they'll get that far "down into the weeds" at the design charrette they're hosting with REO.

It seems odd they would want to build the first phase of the Holland expansion at the same time as the HDR HQ, unless they'll get a package deal from Kiewit. Usually simultaneous projects around town drive-up construction costs, since the labor supply is limited.

It would be great if the buildings could be moved next to other nearby buildings of the same era, but that would cost quite a bit. Maybe someone will step up and pay for that.

[GetUrban]

From HDR's website:

On Civic architecture:

We are committed to strengthening communities through accessible, sustainable and inspiring public buildings. Through creative place-making, we strive to reinforce civic engagement, understanding that inclusion and participation is at the heart of community—whether it be a small rural town or a large international city. Our approach is based on collaboration. We always seek a shared idea—rooted in a specific community—to guide our design. Whether iconic or modest architecture, we listen to the concerns of a specific community and address them directly, and appropriately—resolving complex functional and operational requirements through deceptively simple architecture based on clarity of vision.

We'll see if they follow their own commitments.

On Retail & Mixed-use development:

The retail market has steadily evolved over the years. Shops have gone from being on main streets to inside malls; shopping malls have gone from indoors to open air; and shopping centers of today have morphed into mixed-use developments inspired by town centers of yesterday, integrating office, entertainment, and community infrastructure with retail to fulfil people's "live/work/play" desires. Throughout this evolution, we have been at the forefront, engaged with retail and mixed-use developers to combine art, commerce, sustainability and urban design to deliver commercially successful retail and social destinations that enhance life.

With the acquisition of Rice Daubney in 2013, we now have more than 39 years' experience designing mixed use and retail projects around the world.

Show us.

[Coyote]

[MTO]

From HDR's website:

On Civic architecture:

We are committed to strengthening communities through accessible, sustainable and inspiring public buildings. Through creative place-making, we strive to reinforce civic engagement, understanding that inclusion and participation is at the heart of community—whether it be a small rural town or a large international city. Our approach is based on collaboration. We always seek a shared idea—rooted in a specific community—to guide our design. Whether iconic or modest architecture, we listen to the concerns of a specific community and address them directly, and appropriately—resolving complex functional and operational requirements through deceptively simple architecture based on clarity of vision.

We'll see if they follow their own commitments.

On Retail & Mixed-use development:

The retail market has steadily evolved over the years. Shops have gone from being on main streets to inside malls; shopping malls have gone from indoors to open air; and shopping centers of today have morphed into mixed-use developments inspired by town centers of yesterday, integrating office, entertainment, and community infrastructure with retail to fulfil people's "live/work/play" desires. Throughout this evolution, we have been at the forefront, engaged with retail and mixed-use developers to combine art, commerce, sustainability and urban design to deliver commercially successful retail and social destinations that enhance life.

With the acquisition of Rice Daubney in 2013, we now have more than 39 years' experience designing mixed use and retail projects around the world.

Show us.

What kinda hippy bullshít is that.

[mr. omaha]

Hardly Done Right

[jessep28]

Just keep in mind that if a white elephant street car project is ever approved, I'm sure that HDR would be the engineering firm selected to design it.

[Coyote]

For one, Mayor Jean Stothert, who brokered the $10 million deal for the land OPA wants for the Holland’s expansion, has said the deal doesn’t preclude keeping all of the century-old buildings on the site.

She has said, especially, she hopes the Christian Specht building, which is the only one among the buildings to have status as a national and local landmark, could be saved. As a local landmark, hearings must be held on the Specht building before its status is revoked to allow it to be demolished.

Restoration Exchange wants to keep all three buildings.

OPA’s Gottschalk, former publisher of The World-Herald, said he doesn’t see how that would work in a development that would meet the Holland’s future needs, but added, “We’re sensitive to that issue. Yes, I think that the architectural value could and should be saved somehow.”

He has mentioned saving the cast-iron facade of the Specht building.

The Architectural value of WHAT could be saved SOMEHOW?

[GetUrban]

From HDR's website:

On Civic architecture:

We are committed to strengthening communities through accessible, sustainable and inspiring public buildings. Through creative place-making, we strive to reinforce civic engagement, understanding that inclusion and participation is at the heart of community—whether it be a small rural town or a large international city. Our approach is based on collaboration. We always seek a shared idea—rooted in a specific community—to guide our design. Whether iconic or modest architecture, we listen to the concerns of a specific community and address them directly, and appropriately—resolving complex functional and operational requirements through deceptively simple architecture based on clarity of vision.

We'll see if they follow their own commitments.

On Retail & Mixed-use development:

The retail market has steadily evolved over the years. Shops have gone from being on main streets to inside malls; shopping malls have gone from indoors to open air; and shopping centers of today have morphed into mixed-use developments inspired by town centers of yesterday, integrating office, entertainment, and community infrastructure with retail to fulfil people's "live/work/play" desires. Throughout this evolution, we have been at the forefront, engaged with retail and mixed-use developers to combine art, commerce, sustainability and urban design to deliver commercially successful retail and social destinations that enhance life.

With the acquisition of Rice Daubney in 2013, we now have more than 39 years' experience designing mixed use and retail projects around the world.

Show us.

What kinda hippy bullshít is that.

All good, if it was more than lip service. I'm not a hipster, but they seem to get it.

[skinzfan23]

In situation similar to Omaha's, D.C. project integrated 4 old buildings into new structures — though it came at a cost

The time it took to move and reinstall the buildings was factored in to the construction schedule, and the building opened on time, she said.
Workers preserved 20 feet of the interior of one building, 32 feet of another and 28 feet of each of the other two. The Preservation League determined an “appropriate depth” to retain, Emrick said, “carefully balancing key architectural and structural features of each building with the viability of the new development.”
(In Omaha, the Coffee Building is 56 feet deep and the others are 120 feet deep, according to Douglas County records.)

Here is the example from DC:


Along with the rendering that was proposed for the Clarinda/Page building in Omaha:

[MTO]

Can't wait for this to be over, this incessant parsimony reminds me of the desperate housewife show, annoying!

[GetUrban]

Better get used to it. I heard Alvine's deal gives them two years to get out.

[MTO]

Better get used to it. I heard Alvine's deal gives them two years to get out.

Well soon FDR should give us a nice destruction.