Holland's Greenspace

Downtown, Midtown, and all parts east of 72nd.

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Coyote
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Coyote » Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:04 am

Strange, since I thought I heard that OPA, or HDR, was going to look into using one of four Restoration Exchange's suggested architectural firms, but maybe I am mixing up a different story...
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RNcyanide
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby RNcyanide » Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:36 am

Wow, that all sounds shady as |expletive|. I wonder if the mayor can/will do anything about being cut out like that.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby MTO » Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:35 am

You guys trying to greater false drama again?..
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby mattl181 » Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:31 pm

MTO wrote:You guys trying to greater false drama again?..


The signs are all there, to ignore them is rather naive, no?

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GetUrban
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby GetUrban » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:22 am

Beyond securing the funds to purchase the properties, what makes you think the Mayor has any say in how OPA utilizes the property for expansion? There is nothing that says they even have to save the buildings. It's just a PR effort on OPA's part to have a dialog with with REO and their representative architects. They are not legally bound to initiate any of REO's architect's ideas. I hope OPA does, but I'd be surprised.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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GetUrban
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby GetUrban » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:14 pm

Heard Alvine Engineering bought the building at 1316 Jones and is moving there from their 11th & Douglas location. (future Holland Expansion site) It's good they are staying close to the Old Market, as long as they don't someday sell the building to make way for someone's parking garage.
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The building served most recently as a rental venue for banquets, parties, etc., as well as residential. It was Jones Street Brewery and Banana Joe's a few years before that.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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U R my Helix
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby U R my Helix » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:56 pm

Is the building empty now? it used to be low/moderate income apartments put into service in 1992. Typically these NIFA projects are required to be in service for 15 years with an additional extended use period before they can be out of the program. Do we know if the apartments are staying?
GetUrban wrote:Heard Alvine Engineering bought the building at 1316 Jones and is moving there from their 11th & Douglas location. (future Holland Expansion site) It's good they are staying close to the Old Market, as long as they don't someday sell the building to make way for someone's parking garage.
Image

The building served most recently as a rental venue for banquets, parties, etc., as well as residential. It was Jones Street Brewery and Banana Joe's a few years before that.

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GetUrban
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby GetUrban » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:29 pm

Alvine has a little less than 30,000 SF in their current building on two floors + mezz, including about 9k sf in the basement. 1316 has about 8500 sf on each of the 3 floors plus 8500 sf basement. If they down-size a bit, they could possibly leave the 3rd floor as residential. If I had to bet, I'd assume they'll take the whole building for the business. Time will tell. The NIFA requirements must have expired by now, 23+ years later, I would think.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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RNcyanide
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby RNcyanide » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:21 pm

It's awesome they are staying downtown and using another historic building to boot. Good for them.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby JDJase » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:23 pm

U R my Helix wrote:Is the building empty now? it used to be low/moderate income apartments put into service in 1992. Typically these NIFA projects are required to be in service for 15 years with an additional extended use period before they can be out of the program. Do we know if the apartments are staying?
GetUrban wrote:Heard Alvine Engineering bought the building at 1316 Jones and is moving there from their 11th & Douglas location. (future Holland Expansion site) It's good they are staying close to the Old Market, as long as they don't someday sell the building to make way for someone's parking garage.
Image

The building served most recently as a rental venue for banquets, parties, etc., as well as residential. It was Jones Street Brewery and Banana Joe's a few years before that.


I think the units were just renovated a few years ago (Bolts and Nuts Lofts, thread here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13194&hilit=1316+Jones). They rent(ed?) for well over $1,000/mo so def not low income. I had a friend that lived in one of the top floor units back in 2007-2008ish, they were actually very cool lofts.

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby U R my Helix » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:42 pm

Yep thought they "Bolts & Nuts Lofts" were redone in 2012 as well. There was also an OWH article that said they were turned into nice lofts. The website is still up for these but the website still says "AVAILABLE FALL 2012". http://www.boltsandnutslofts.com/ guess they didn't need to advertise them much.

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby iamjacobm » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:32 pm

Here is the thread we had for that building if we want to move some posts over.

http://www.eomahaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13194&p=190383&hilit=bolts#p190383

The lack of activity on their website and completely new use makes me wonder if they never ended up finishing that loft project. Would be interesting to find some more details.

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GetUrban
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby GetUrban » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:46 pm

Even though the Alvine move is directly related...Back to the more immediate topic at hand...

Modeshift Omaha has some good info and position statements on the OPA/Holland expansion...
http://modeshiftomaha.org/

and from their blog...
http://modeshiftomaha.org/2015/12/22/a-summary-of-and-our-take-on-the-hdropa-downtown-situation/
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby nebraska0490 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:08 am

Today the City Council is meeting to vote on the Downtown Redevelopment Plan to include the lots for the buildings on 11th and Douglas. This is a very important decision because if this is approved, then the plan to purchase the buildings and then tearing them down will have a chance to move forward. If you have time this morning, please email the city council members to voice your concern in this matter. It does not have to be a speech, just a few sentences to nicely voice your opinion. (kill ‘em with kindness, right?)

Emails can be found here: http://citycouncil.cityofomaha.org/council-members

With the recent tragedy of M’s Pub, it might be great to work that in to your statement.

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby mattl181 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:20 pm

nebraska0490 wrote:Today the City Council is meeting to vote on the Downtown Redevelopment Plan to include the lots for the buildings on 11th and Douglas. This is a very important decision because if this is approved, then the plan to purchase the buildings and then tearing them down will have a chance to move forward. If you have time this morning, please email the city council members to voice your concern in this matter. It does not have to be a speech, just a few sentences to nicely voice your opinion. (kill ‘em with kindness, right?)

Emails can be found here: http://citycouncil.cityofomaha.org/council-members

With the recent tragedy of M’s Pub, it might be great to work that in to your statement.


DONE!

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby NovakOmaha » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:52 pm

Ok, so I said I was not going to post here any more. Now I'm back but only for this reason. Some here have posted some pretty compelling thoughts regarding the old buildings near the Holland Center. Now is your chance to try to do something about it. I was a lobbyist for the student government while in college at UNL in the 70s. We successfully beat two bills to raise the drinking age from 18 to 21. Some day I'll tell you how we did it. It's pretty funny. Here are some tips to try to actually make a difference...

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/public-can-weigh-in-next-month-on-holland-center-expansion/article_ab85bb7f-f7c2-595f-aaa5-71ec11dffa64.html

1) Organize yourselves into a group. Meet, plan, execute. You're smart people. Some of you have the capability to do renderings as you have done here before.

2) Contact your city council persons well before the meeting. Call, email, visit in person if you can. Be respectful, organized and anticipate questions and have responses. Contact the Mayor as well. Ask friends to contact as well.

3) Attend the meeting and speak. You're all voters and citizens of Omaha. This is your right and responsibility. Bring visual aids if you can. Thank them for hearing you out.

4) Have a coherent message and alternatives. Research. See what other cities have done. Bring those ideas.

5) Contact OPA as well. Try to meet with them.

6) NEVER lose your cool. As my father said many times "The first one to lose their cool, loses". It's true.

7) Dress for success. Wear a suit if possible. This isn't student council. Yes there are going to be people who think they are more powerful than you. That may be but you have this opportunity to actually make a difference.

8) This is a process. Work the process. The vote coming up is one step. It isn't a sprint. It's a marathon. There will be more votes. While it may well be true that OPA has already decided to do whatever it is they want, you do have a say. Be proactive. Anticipate OPA's plan and be aware of every step. They are NOT a company as much as a clearinghouse for donor funds. Here's an idea: Find out who the big donors are, the board members too, and try to meet with them. Find out when their board meetings are and try to attend them as well.

9) Think three or four steps ahead.

10) Make me proud!

I'm going to crawl back under whatever rock I live under....good luck!

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Seth
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Seth » Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:31 pm

Very sage advice, Novak. We could use more of that on the site.

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby S33 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:40 pm

"The first one who loses their cool, loses"

I like that.

Good post, Novak.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby mr. omaha » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:29 pm

Mode Shift Omaha just posted information obtained through FOIA between the Mayor and John Gottschalk.

"This letter from Mayor Stothert to OPA Chairman John Gottschalk makes it abundantly clear that the City provided options for OPA to get a reasonable amount parking. This is an important point because, as we understand it, OPA still desires to construct a 520-stall parking garage on the site where the three historic buildings currently stand.

Needless to say, it appears OPA declined the City’s offer and continued to leverage their lot (the lot HDR plans to build on) in order to get everything they want, which is where we are today."

http://modeshiftomaha.org

Sounds to me like OPA is extorting the City.

Be sure to call or write your council representative before it's too late!!

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby skinzfan23 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:39 am

Ghost hunters investigating Specht building hope evidence of another world will save landmark in this one

“Mr. Specht, are you here with us?” Buckingham said in a soft yet firm voice seasoned by scores of similar investigations.
Lights on her hand-held electromagnetic field detector flickered.
“The K2 meter is going off now,” she said. “It may indicate something is here with us.”

RIP’s six-hour visit — which included a walk-through and equipment setup — turned out to be just the beginning.
The “sensitives” in the group left the Jan. 29 session convinced that they felt paranormal energy. Buckingham called it “nothing evil and nothing to be afraid of.” Days later, as they started to analyze and amplify recordings, they claimed to have heard an EVP: electronic voice phenomenon. It came after one of the humans asked about going to the second-floor loft area. Is it part of this building?
“No,” says a gravelly whisper.

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Seth » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:30 pm

Oh boy. Can't we stick to legitimate reasons?

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Lillian Bean » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:42 pm

The City has stated publicly that they did not have an interest in using eminent domain to acquire the three properties. During the City Council meeting today, a citizen brought up that the purchase agreement specifically listed that the buildings were being sold due to the threat of eminent domain. The response from the city attorney (I think?) was that this language was included because it got the sellers out of having to pay capital gains tax. So, you have a city employee, on public record, stating they lied in order to avoid taxes to the Federal Government. I realize tricks like this get played all the time, I'm just curious how the city can put it out there publicly and it's not a problem?
Thinking there's not a whole lot to say anymore now that people listen & she has to make sense.

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Coyote » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:47 pm

Lillian Bean wrote:The City has stated publicly that they did not have an interest in using eminent domain to acquire the three properties. During the City Council meeting today, a citizen brought up that the purchase agreement specifically listed that the buildings were being sold due to the threat of eminent domain. The response from the city attorney (I think?) was that this language was included because it got the sellers out of having to pay capital gains tax. So, you have a city employee, on public record, stating they lied in order to avoid taxes to the Federal Government. I realize tricks like this get played all the time, I'm just curious how the city can put it out there publicly and it's not a problem?


I was thinking the exact thing when he started talking about Capital Gains taxation being the reason they included this language for the benefit of the seller.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby PotatoeEatsFish » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:54 pm

Lets hope they legalize medical marijuana this year so we can farm in the field and sell our product out of the Specht Building. Enough media coverage could save the building. Plus who doesn't like weed?
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby jessep28 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:14 pm

Coyote wrote:
Lillian Bean wrote:The City has stated publicly that they did not have an interest in using eminent domain to acquire the three properties. During the City Council meeting today, a citizen brought up that the purchase agreement specifically listed that the buildings were being sold due to the threat of eminent domain. The response from the city attorney (I think?) was that this language was included because it got the sellers out of having to pay capital gains tax. So, you have a city employee, on public record, stating they lied in order to avoid taxes to the Federal Government. I realize tricks like this get played all the time, I'm just curious how the city can put it out there publicly and it's not a problem?


I was thinking the exact thing when he started talking about Capital Gains taxation being the reason they included this language for the benefit of the seller.


Katz didn't explain the tax implications very well. It isn't as bad as it sounds.

Treating the sale as an involuntary conversion substantially increases the time frame for the sellers to find and purchase replacement property and potentially defer any gain from the sale.

If they treated the deal as a regular sale, they sellers could also defer the gain under like kind exchange rules. However, the sellers would only have a max of 45 days to identify the replacement property and up to 180 days to close on the purchase. - https://www.irs.gov/uac/Like-Kind-Excha ... ction-1031
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Garrett » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:34 pm

PotatoeEatsFish wrote:Lets hope they legalize medical marijuana this year so we can farm in the field and sell our product out of the Specht Building. Enough media coverage could save the building. Plus who doesn't like weed?
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby jessep28 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:51 pm

Here is a video of the city council meeting from today which held a public hearing on purchasing the properties in question. Again, this was a hearing and not a vote.

The embedded video below should begin at the correct spot. If not, ether manually fast forward to the 1 hour 37 minute mark, or click the blue link above the video window, and that should open a new window and start the video when the public hearing begins.

http://youtu.be/U9xJHk4AWNg?t=5824
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby PotatoeEatsFish » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:29 pm

Garrett wrote:
PotatoeEatsFish wrote:Lets hope they legalize medical marijuana this year so we can farm in the field and sell our product out of the Specht Building. Enough media coverage could save the building. Plus who doesn't like weed?
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Aren't you 12?


15 tommorow and I wasn't being serious :lol:
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby skinzfan23 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:30 am

More than a dozen people ask City Council to pass on Holland Center expansion plan

Omahans told the City Council that they’re frustrated with how the city has handled a deal to buy three century-old buildings, then give them to the operators of the Holland Center. “I don’t think it’s fair that HDR and OPA are playing a game with each other and then using the citizens of Omaha as their toy,” Caitlin Kolb said. “And thinking we’re all too dumb or scared or complacent to take a stand against it.”

“We have mercilessly and relentlessly destroyed the buildings that have typified our city,” said Paul Kulik, chef at Le Boullion.

On the other side, representatives from the Mayor’s Office, HDR Inc. and the Greater Omaha Chamber of Commerce urged the council to approve the deal. They said it is necessary because Omaha Performing Arts would then sell a nearby parking lot to the engineering firm for its new international headquarters. Little said the company decided early on that it would keep its headquarters in Omaha.

The council is scheduled to vote on the agreement Feb. 23.

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby GetUrban » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:30 am

It really bothers me there is no verbiage that I'm aware of in the proposal on the table, saying that the buildings will be saved or Omaha won't end up with a lifeless wall of a parking garage along Douglas St. on the GLM, or that handing over the property to OPA is tied to City approval of their actual plans. The Omaha City Council should vote NO until OPA solidifies their actual plan and makes it public. They have separated approval of the property purchase from the reality of what they have in mind for the property. Plus, to add urgency to the matter, they have tied approval of the purchase to HDR's plans across the street as leverage. Since city the City of Omaha is the purchaser, OPA'S actual plans for the property should be known and agreed upon before the city hands over the property to OPA.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Garrett » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:25 am

PotatoeEatsFish wrote:
Garrett wrote:
PotatoeEatsFish wrote:Lets hope they legalize medical marijuana this year so we can farm in the field and sell our product out of the Specht Building. Enough media coverage could save the building. Plus who doesn't like weed?
Image


Aren't you 12?


15 tommorow and I wasn't being serious :lol:


Ha! Too funny. I joined this forum when I was your age. Looks like we have another urban planner in the works here eh?
From Omaha to Chicago
From Axel to Garrett

Still the same guy

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby MTO » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:10 pm

So from the press conference OPA will forgo their plans to their east and sell it off and NOT stand in HDR"s way.
15-17, 26, 32

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby RNcyanide » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:21 pm

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Omaha Cowboy » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:25 pm

MTO wrote:So from the press conference OPA will forgo their plans to their east and sell it off and NOT stand in HDR"s way.


Great news :thumb: ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Brad » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:34 pm

Omaha Performing Arts backs off land deal involving 3 century-old buildings

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/omaha-p ... cb11c.html

Roseann Moring / World-Herald staff writer wrote:Omaha Performing Arts will withdraw its request that the city buy three century-old buildings near the Holland Center in exchange for the arts group giving a nearby parking lot to HDR Inc., officials said Monday.
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby iamjacobm » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:39 pm

Wow.

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Seth
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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Seth » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:50 pm

Wow, that was unexpected! Great to see some common sense prevail, although it's a little troubling that the city would offer up $10 million beforehand.

I wonder what the future for this block will be now? Will OPA build parking on the greenspace they do own, or maybe do the sensible thing and arrange for parking space in one of the many nearby garages? Wasn't the latter the original plan years ago when the Holland was built?

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Greg S » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:57 pm

I have mixed feelings on this.

Greg

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby GetUrban » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:03 pm

Great news and possibly a very rare, long-awaited victory for historic preservation in Omaha, if the buildings remain as-is or re-purposed.

Greg, I don't see how you can reach any conclusion other than a positive one if the buildings are saved. But, you're entitled to your own opinion, whatever that is.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Bosco55David » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:15 pm

Glad to see this happen!


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