Holland's Greenspace

Downtown, Midtown, and all parts east of 72nd.

Moderators: Coyote, Omaha Cowboy, Brad, nebugeater

User avatar
Coyote
City Council
Posts: 20617
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:18 am
Location: Three floors down
Contact:

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Coyote » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:23 pm

GetUrban wrote:Great news and possibly a very rare, long-awaited victory for historic preservation in Omaha, if the buildings remain as-is or re-purposed.


Also... A victory for non-government voices. For the common citizen that wants to be a part of public discourse.
Image

Linkin5
County Board
Posts: 3820
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Linkin5 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:16 pm

I'm sure this is a reaction to my scathing facebook review of OPA, lol.

MadMartin8
Planning Board
Posts: 2136
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:48 pm
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby MadMartin8 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:24 pm

Greg S wrote:I have mixed feelings on this.

Greg



Indeed. I'll be curious to see what the long term ramifications of this are.
No posts exist for this topic

MTO
City Council
Posts: 7876
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:49 am
Location: Dundee

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby MTO » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:32 pm

It would be great to see something classy and mixed use fill in the rest of the lot but it just sucks Holland will be land locked. While OPA could always do something more somewhere else in the future it would have been ideal to have it all together in one large facility.
15-17, 26, 32

Tornado
Home Owners Association
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:52 am
Location: West Omaha

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Tornado » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:38 pm

WOW........I'm a little shocked here. I don't think any of us will ever know all the details of just why OPA suddenly backed out of this deal, but this whole process has been so F'd up from the beginning maybe they just couldn't deal with the controversy any longer. Situations like this usually come down to money, so I'm assuming a couple big donors, influential individuals, both with the city and OPA, were not on the same page with this process. I'm sure that public outcry, M's Pub fire, and the timing of Conagra headquarters move(Jobbers Canyon), didn't help the situation either. I'm happy though :D :D

Linkin5
County Board
Posts: 3820
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Linkin5 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:49 pm

Tornado wrote:WOW........I'm a little shocked here. I don't think any of us will ever know all the details of just why OPA suddenly backed out of this deal, but this whole process has been so F'd up from the beginning maybe they just couldn't deal with the controversy any longer. Situations like this usually come down to money, so I'm assuming a couple big donors, influential individuals, both with the city and OPA, were not on the same page with this process. I'm sure that public outcry, M's Pub fire, and the timing of Conagra headquarters move(Jobbers Canyon), didn't help the situation either. I'm happy though :D :D


It's honestly completely ridiculous that an arts society would even consider knocking down historic buildings for a parking garage, it never made an ounce of sense. I'm surprised they even suggested this in the first place, it is a nightmare for their image.

User avatar
Coyote
City Council
Posts: 20617
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:18 am
Location: Three floors down
Contact:

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Coyote » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:50 pm

“This decision will allow us to resume our original multi-year timeline to develop a plan for future growth and expansion,” said Joan Squires, president of Omaha Performing Arts. “The planning process escalated in an effort to meet deadlines associated with HDR’s relocation and that did not give our organization enough time to meet with the community, arts partners, and others.”

“The decision for HDR to relocate downtown and build a corporate tower created a tremendous amount of excitement,” said D. David Slosburg, member of the Board of Directors, Omaha Performing Arts. “As a good community partner we agreed to sell our property as long as we could accommodate our long-term programming and educational needs and not reduce our level of patron services. In the end, the project became just too divisive.”

“As we look to the future, we still have plans to expand our programs and activities,” said Joan Squires, president of Omaha Performing Arts. “However, these considerations take time – to thoughtfully consider all options, to engage our community and arts partners, and to evaluate how we can continue to serve our community and region.”

“Our organization has a bright and exciting future ahead,” said Squires. “We are confident that a mutually acceptable resolution will be found in due course, and we look forward the next chapter for our community and for Omaha Performing Arts.”
Image

nativeomahan
Planning Board
Posts: 3463
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:46 pm
Location: Omaha

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby nativeomahan » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:00 pm

Thank goodness that cooler heads, and common sense prevailed. I do believe that the increasingly intense negative publicity played a huge role in this development. OPA simply isn't use to receiving negative publicity. They weren't prepared for it, and didn't have the stomach for it. They made a wise decision, albeit a bit belated. I think they are exiting this proposed deal with their integrity largely intact.
Now, I have a question. Why on earth would HDR design a building to be built on land they didn't already own, or have a done deal to purchase? To me that shows arrogance on the part of HDR.

lisanstan
Home Owners Association
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: O! (maha)

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby lisanstan » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:21 pm

I think HDR and OPA both arrogantly thought this would happen without either of them having to get dirty. I'm guessing the ConAgra defection (leaving us with a out of place suburban campus on prime urban land), $11M in tax payer money being handed over to OPA so they could demolish historic buildings to build an unnecessary parking garage, and the coup de gras was M's Pub. People were upset and it wasn't just Jane Doe. I think Kulik's presence and comments were influential.

User avatar
GetUrban
Parks & Recreation
Posts: 1855
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: Omaha

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby GetUrban » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:37 pm

Also, Restoration Exchange Omaha and Modeshift Omaha deserve a lot of credit for rallying like-minded people and adding to their ranks through education on why historic architecture matters in Omaha too.

I certainly hope their hastily conceived plans weren't dropped simply because a couple of large donors threatened to pull their donations, but instead they listened to the multitude of many voices speaking out against them.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

Professor Woland
Library Board
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 8:28 pm
Location: Omaha Metro Area

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Professor Woland » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:45 pm

This was the proper outcome, but because of the dynamics of the situation it's a mixed blessing. Obviously, the city should never have paid to buy land for OPA. Secondly, while by all accounts eminent domain wasn't on the table, it had to hang over any negotiations. On the other hand, I don't know if the primary reason this came apart was the taxpayer money, I think it was the preservationists' salty tears, and that spells trouble in the future. If there's one thing as odious as rich people screwing the public over, it's activists claiming power to interfere with consensual transactions in the future. To put a finer point on it, let's say that no city money was going to be used at all and that the owners were thrilled to sell their properties; in such a scenario there still would have people trying to put legal roadblocks in the way of the project. I fear that this victory has empowered those people.

User avatar
iamjacobm
City Council
Posts: 8856
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Midtown

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby iamjacobm » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:50 pm

I think bad publicity is a lot stronger tool for preservationists than legal hurdles. As we saw in Midtown a historic designation isn't worth the paper it is written on if it can be voted away easily.

Professor Woland
Library Board
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 8:28 pm
Location: Omaha Metro Area

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Professor Woland » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:54 pm

iamjacobm wrote:I think bad publicity is a lot stronger tool for preservationists than legal hurdles. As we saw in Midtown a historic designation isn't worth the paper it is written on if it can be voted away easily.


The Midtown thing was a Pyrrhic victory for the forces of right (willing sellers and willing buyers) and good taste (the Clarinda was the architectural equivalent of Nickelback.) Other than the actual Mutual of Omaha people and the condo owners who sold their condos, no one was happier than me to see that abomination leveled to the ground, but I sensed the way that the preservationists got charged up afterward.

User avatar
skinzfan23
County Board
Posts: 5199
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:26 am
Location: Omaha/Bellevue

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby skinzfan23 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:01 pm

Wow, I am shocked, just like everyone else.

User avatar
Omababe
Planning Board
Posts: 2180
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:47 am
Contact:

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Omababe » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:01 am

Bosco55David wrote:Glad to see this happen!


Yes, finally sanity prevailed!

Louie
Library Board
Posts: 403
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Maplewood

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Louie » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:34 am

Is OPA going to look at another lot now? Or are they tabling discussion?

User avatar
GetUrban
Parks & Recreation
Posts: 1855
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: Omaha

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby GetUrban » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:06 am

Louie wrote:Is OPA going to look at another lot now? Or are they tabling discussion?


Looks like OPA is going to learn to live with the land between Holland & Specht that they already own. I believe they already bought the sliver of land that Frankie Pane's used to occupy. The direct adjacency of the land occupied by the Specht, Alvine, and Happy Hollow Coffee building is what made it so attractive for them to attempt to acquire, obviously. It has been shown that ample parking is available on adjacent blocks. Seems they should focus their future expansion plans solely on the adjacent greenspace they already own. Build up, not out.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

Greg S
County Board
Posts: 3611
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:46 am

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Greg S » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:34 am

I imagine it will be a smaller expansion now.

Greg

User avatar
GetUrban
Parks & Recreation
Posts: 1855
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: Omaha

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby GetUrban » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:32 pm

They'll have 20,972 sf less site area to add to the 153,359 sf they already have, but they can add floors vertically, so it could be a wash.
Plus if they decided there was a way they could utilize the existing buildings after all, they might find willing sellers without much public outcry.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

Louie
Library Board
Posts: 403
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Maplewood

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Louie » Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:50 pm

GetUrban wrote:They'll have 20,972 sf less site area to add to the 153,359 sf they already have, but they can add floors vertically, so it could be a wash.
Plus if they decided there was a way they could utilize the existing buildings after all, they might find willing sellers without much public outcry.

Integration of a modern larger building around the older storefronts would be a real eye catcher for downtown.

User avatar
iamjacobm
City Council
Posts: 8856
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Midtown

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby iamjacobm » Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:53 pm

It is obviously a different use than OPA would want, but this project in Minneapolis is another great example of the old with the new.

Image

Louie
Library Board
Posts: 403
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Maplewood

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Louie » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:43 pm

iamjacobm wrote:It is obviously a different use than OPA would want, but this project in Minneapolis is another great example of the old with the new.

Image

That's so cool.

Joe_Sovereign
Library Board
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:57 pm
Location: Omaha Metro Area

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Joe_Sovereign » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:07 am

Can the City now use that $10 million and build the 11th street pedestrian bridge and the Bob Kerry bridge extension?

User avatar
jessep28
Planning Board
Posts: 2360
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:10 pm
Location: Omaha Metro Area

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby jessep28 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:04 am

Joe_Sovereign wrote:Can the City now use that $10 million and build the 11th street pedestrian bridge and the Bob Kerry bridge extension?


The vote was never taken so redevelopment bonds were not issued.
Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum

User avatar
Seth
Parks & Recreation
Posts: 1439
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:59 pm
Location: Ford Birthsite Neighborhood

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Seth » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:18 pm

GetUrban wrote:They'll have 20,972 sf less site area to add to the 153,359 sf they already have, but they can add floors vertically, so it could be a wash.


Yes, exactly. Why they needed an entire city block to build a low-rise structure on in the middle of downtown is puzzling to me.

User avatar
RNcyanide
Planning Board
Posts: 2748
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:37 am
Location: Chalco

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby RNcyanide » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:41 pm

Seth wrote:
GetUrban wrote:They'll have 20,972 sf less site area to add to the 153,359 sf they already have, but they can add floors vertically, so it could be a wash.


Yes, exactly. Why they needed an entire city block to build a low-rise structure on in the middle of downtown is puzzling to me.


More puzzling still is how they thought no one would really care if they tore down historic buildings for nothing more than a parking garage. I really want to be a fly on the wall in the meeting where that decision was made.
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.

The Bride

User avatar
Coyote
City Council
Posts: 20617
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:18 am
Location: Three floors down
Contact:

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Coyote » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:04 pm

OPAS has just submitted a site plan for 1200 Douglas. All that is known is that it is for one building. If this is their green space or for the eastern portion of the Holland is yet to be disclosed...
Image

User avatar
PotatoeEatsFish
Library Board
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby PotatoeEatsFish » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:10 pm

Coyote wrote:OPAS has just submitted a site plan for 1200 Douglas. All that is known is that it is for one building. If this is their green space or for the eastern portion of the Holland is yet to be disclosed...


Now when you say building does that guarantee it's not a garage?
I got that Milf $

User avatar
GetUrban
Parks & Recreation
Posts: 1855
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: Omaha

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby GetUrban » Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:26 am

Somewhat related to this, I heard Alvine Engineering at 11th & Douglas will be moving into the Lanoha development on the lot just south of the Mattress Factory....AKA the former Wall Street Tower showroom site. The design looks to have changed too, since the project developer was awarded/chosen, but I don't know if the renderings have been released to the public yet.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

MTO
City Council
Posts: 7876
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:49 am
Location: Dundee

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby MTO » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:35 am

Hope they added a floor as well.
15-17, 26, 32

daveoma
Human Relations
Posts: 837
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:18 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby daveoma » Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:33 pm

I really wish there was a way to expand the theater itself and somehow turn it 90° so they could use their land more efficiently. I would love to know what this new building is going to be.

User avatar
Coyote
City Council
Posts: 20617
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:18 am
Location: Three floors down
Contact:

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Coyote » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:33 pm

Coyote wrote:OPAS has just submitted a site plan for 1200 Douglas. All that is known is that it is for one building. If this is their green space or for the eastern portion of the Holland is yet to be disclosed...


Given the past 24 hours... I have to wonder if something is happening here that is trying to hide under the HDR train wreck.
Is there a divert attention and obtain controversial permits play going on?
I hope people don't fall asleep to an OPAS end run Statue of Liberty play going on...
Image

User avatar
HR Paperstacks
Parks & Recreation
Posts: 1702
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:39 pm
Location: Midtown Crossing

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby HR Paperstacks » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:38 pm

I really have a hard time supporting OPA after this whole debacle. I know it's not the only reason for HDR scrapping their plans, but their heavy handedness in this whole things leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's too bad as I was considering checking them out at sometime in the near future. But now I probably never will.

User avatar
Coyote
City Council
Posts: 20617
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:18 am
Location: Three floors down
Contact:

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Coyote » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:55 pm

Can someone figure out and post an OPAS timeline on this development situation?
When did OPAS find out HDR wanted to purchase their parking lot...?
What was their first response/demands?
When did they present their ornate designs of a garage/learning center...?
How did they chase away HDR? (If they are the culprit here) with unwarranted demands/requests
Image

Linkin5
County Board
Posts: 3820
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Linkin5 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:16 am

Coyote wrote:Can someone figure out and post an OPAS timeline on this development situation?
When did OPAS find out HDR wanted to purchase their parking lot...?
What was their first response/demands?
When did they present their ornate designs of a garage/learning center...?
How did they chase away HDR? (If they are the culprit here) with unwarranted demands/requests


Nobody got chased away here, OPA and HDR were in this together. I don't think it's any coincidence Richard Bell is on the OPA board of directors and is also former CEO of HDR and currently still on the HDR board of directors as well.

daveoma
Human Relations
Posts: 837
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:18 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby daveoma » Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:55 pm

HR Paperstacks wrote:I really have a hard time supporting OPA after this whole debacle. I know it's not the only reason for HDR scrapping their plans, but their heavy handedness in this whole things leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's too bad as I was considering checking them out at sometime in the near future. But now I probably never will.

Agreed, totally...OPA might provide essential cultural amenities for the city, but I believe they no longer consider what is best for the city when making their decisions. Their chairman behaves like a crime boss, and their board appears to desire a cultural fortress in which only the elite and well dressed are welcome.

nativeomahan
Planning Board
Posts: 3463
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:46 pm
Location: Omaha

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby nativeomahan » Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:03 pm

It's a rather unusual business transaction where absolutely everyone comes out of it looking much worse than when they went in.

Unusual, except in Omaha.

User avatar
PotatoeEatsFish
Library Board
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby PotatoeEatsFish » Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:32 pm

I'm going to be upset if HDR builds in Aksarben.
I really hope they stay downtown and build a high rise. Maybe a skinny taller one.
I got that Milf $

Professor Woland
Library Board
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 8:28 pm
Location: Omaha Metro Area

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby Professor Woland » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:26 pm

The only way the lot north of the Holland will ever be developed is if someone with money ponies up the dough to move the three buildings to a different location, gives OPA the entire greenspace lot, thereby freeing up the parking lot for development. Someone on this board needs to get their stuff together and invent something insanely profitable like a new propulsion system or something. Then they would have the necessary capital to do what needs to be done and a big enough business to inhabit the 1500 foot building they would pay for to the north of the Holland. Get on it!

MTO
City Council
Posts: 7876
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:49 am
Location: Dundee

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Postby MTO » Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:38 pm

|expletive| that if OPA wants to play that game than pull some old fashion imminent domain on them.
15-17, 26, 32


Return to “Urban Omaha Development”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests