Holland's Greenspace

Downtown, Midtown, and all parts east of 72nd.

Moderators: Coyote, nebugeater, Brad, Omaha Cowboy, BRoss

Louie
County Board
Posts: 3762
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Dundee

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Louie »

MTO wrote:
GetUrban wrote:Better get used to it. I heard Alvine's deal gives them two years to get out.
:x

Well soon FDR should give us a nice destruction.
Are we damming the Missouri River?
User avatar
iamjacobm
City Council
Posts: 10377
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by iamjacobm »

The Rally to Save the Specht is this Sunday. If fb reservations mean anything(big if) there could be a couple hundred people. They plan to line both sides of Douglas and 11th if enough people show up. There is a performance in the venue at 3 so there will be people showing up to attend that and seeing the rally.
Joe_Sovereign
Library Board
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:57 pm
Location: Omaha Metro Area

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Joe_Sovereign »

iamjacobm wrote:The Rally to Save the Specht is this Sunday. If fb reservations mean anything(big if) there could be a couple hundred people. They plan to line both sides of Douglas and 11th if enough people show up. There is a performance in the venue at 3 so there will be people showing up to attend that and seeing the rally.
"Save the Specht"? Have we already gave up on saving the other two buildings?
omahahawk
Parks & Recreation
Posts: 1091
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:16 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by omahahawk »

GetUrban wrote:Better get used to it. I heard Alvine's deal gives them two years to get out.

That may be but don't you kind of think things are going to start rolling on this site sooner rather than later. I think the articles mentioned that HDR/OPAS wanted construction to occur simultaneously. Just think how cool that would be to have all these projects going all at once, all the way down from the Holland, through HDR and the Capital District, to the Lanoha development. That would be quite a stretch of new development in that corridor.
User avatar
GetUrban
Planning Board
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: Omaha

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by GetUrban »

omahahawk wrote:
GetUrban wrote:Better get used to it. I heard Alvine's deal gives them two years to get out.

That may be but don't you kind of think things are going to start rolling on this site sooner rather than later. I think the articles mentioned that HDR/OPAS wanted construction to occur simultaneously. Just think how cool that would be to have all these projects going all at once, all the way down from the Holland, through HDR and the Capital District, to the Lanoha development. That would be quite a stretch of new development in that corridor.
I'd rather have everybody take their time and do it right. I'm still hopeful the existing buildings will be repurposed and worked into Holland's program needs as office, meeting, small performance space, etc. I know the chances are slim based on Gottschalk's statements, but it's worth a fight to convince OPA otherwise. My biggest fear is having the buildings destroyed for interim surface parking until they design and raise funds for the Holland expansion, to replace the surface lot on the HDR site. Alvine hasn't even announced where they might move, the city council hasn't even approved the $10 mil deal yet.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
User avatar
PotatoeEatsFish
Human Relations
Posts: 747
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by PotatoeEatsFish »

There was a lot of people at the rally today.
#SaveTheUglyGrainSilos2024
MTO
City Council
Posts: 7806
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:49 am
Location: Dundee

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by MTO »

All those people trying to save an old building while war famine and disease ravage the third world.
15-17, 26, 32
mattl181
Home Owners Association
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:28 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by mattl181 »

MTO wrote:All those people trying to save an old building while war famine and disease ravage the third world.
Oh come on, get off of your high horse. There are a lot of bad things going on all over the world all of the time, but that doesn't mean people can't still be concerned about the history of their city. Mind me asking what you are doing to stop war and famine in the world? :roll:
User avatar
PotatoeEatsFish
Human Relations
Posts: 747
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by PotatoeEatsFish »

MTO wrote:All those people trying to save an old building while war famine and disease ravage the third world.
:lol: White girl argument
#SaveTheUglyGrainSilos2024
User avatar
Garrett
Planning Board
Posts: 3487
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:29 pm
Location: New York City

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Garrett »

MTO wrote:All those people trying to save an old building while war famine and disease ravage the third world.
Why help Syrian refugees when there are a few buildings that could be torn down?
OMA-->CHI-->NYC
User avatar
RNcyanide
Planning Board
Posts: 2780
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:37 am
Location: Boston

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by RNcyanide »

Garrett wrote:
MTO wrote:All those people trying to save an old building while war famine and disease ravage the third world.
Why help Syrian refugees when there are a few buildings that could be torn down?
They could help tear them down...
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.

The Bride
User avatar
GetUrban
Planning Board
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: Omaha

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by GetUrban »

MTO wrote:All those people trying to save an old building while war famine and disease ravage the third world.
So, we shouldn't do anything else worthwhile until all people in the world are fed and there are no more wars?
I'm sure they'll postpone the absolutely critical Holland parking expansion until there is no world hunger and ISIS apologizes too.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
User avatar
Uffda
County Board
Posts: 4502
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:52 pm
Location: Land o Lakes, FL

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Uffda »

Coyote - you need to post that photo of the 'full' Omaha 8 garage you posted on FB.
User avatar
Coyote
City Council
Posts: 32940
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:18 am
Location: Aksarben Village
Contact:

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Coyote »

Uffda wrote:Coyote - you need to post that photo of the 'full' Omaha 8 garage you posted on FB.
Omaha Park 8 during a Matinee at Holland this weekend...
1300 stalls available, 30 used.
image.jpg
image.jpg (213.1 KiB) Viewed 2873 times
User avatar
Coyote
City Council
Posts: 32940
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:18 am
Location: Aksarben Village
Contact:

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Coyote »

Restoration Exchange wrote:Let's talk downtown parking.
Specifically Omaha Park 8.

In 2004 the eight-story, city-owned parking lot at 13th and Dodge Streets was completed for $23 million. With an underground link connecting the garage to the new Union Pacific headquarters, it was intended for UP employees to use during the day and the public to use at night, with the Omaha Performing Arts center, rising from the ground across the street at the time, mentioned in newspaper articles.

When the Holland Performing Arts Center was designed they included a covered walkway that leads to the Omaha Park 8 garage.

An World-Herald article from October 20, 2005 states - Parking ample for Holland Center - How to get there - Where to Park.
The new Holland Performing Arts Center will bring more big-city entertainment to Omaha. But big-city traffic and parking concerns probably won't follow.

Parking spaces for the Holland Center should be ample, even if there are events at the Qwest Center Omaha and the Civic Auditorium, said Erick Hoffman, vice president of marketing and communications for Omaha Performing Arts, the group that manages the Holland Center.

The Omaha Park 8 garage has 1,280 spaces. Surface lots northeast of the Holland Center have spaces for approximately 160 cars. Because many concertgoers share a ride and the Concert Hall has 2,000 seats, the 1,440 parking places to the north of the performing arts center should be adequate, Hoffman said.

So that was 2005. Ten years later is parking adequate?
Yesterday we went to find out.

During a Voices of Omaha concert of Handel's Messiah at the Holland Center a volunteer captured these images inside the Park 8 garage.

So we ask. Omaha do we have a downtown parking problem or a parking perception problem?
Ramlco
New to the Neighborhood
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:21 am

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Ramlco »

I'm not going to say that we should put a garage over the top of Specht, but that garage being empty is definitely not the norm. I've had to walk 6 blocks from the nearest open garage to get to the Holland more than once. Honestly, it makes me not want to go there.

You can claim downtown has a parking "perception problem" all you want, but the fact is that on a regular basis, I have to choose between walking six blocks from parking to a restaurant and going somewhere else. Having dinner in Midtown Crossing isn't nearly as appealing as in downtown, but I end up there many times just because parking is a pain downtown.

If you want people to provide continued business to all these awesome new developments downtown, they need a way to get there conveniently.
User avatar
skinzfan23
City Council
Posts: 9138
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:26 am
Location: Omaha/Bellevue

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by skinzfan23 »

Ramlco wrote:I'm not going to say that we should put a garage over the top of Specht, but that garage being empty is definitely not the norm. I've had to walk 6 blocks from the nearest open garage to get to the Holland more than once. Honestly, it makes me not want to go there.

You can claim downtown has a parking "perception problem" all you want, but the fact is that on a regular basis, I have to choose between walking six blocks from parking to a restaurant and going somewhere else. Having dinner in Midtown Crossing isn't nearly as appealing as in downtown, but I end up there many times just because parking is a pain downtown.

If you want people to provide continued business to all these awesome new developments downtown, they need a way to get there conveniently.
Have you ever tried to park in that garage while attending an event at the Holland Center? I have been by there numerous times and that garage is exactly as the picture shows. Event going on and no cars in it.

Even if you were to have to walk 6 blocks, that is a very short distance. I think most people will be ok walking that distance. Unless the garages downtown were completely full, this is absolutely a parking perception.
User avatar
iamjacobm
City Council
Posts: 10377
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by iamjacobm »

Holland redevelopment plan before planning board in December.
Ramlco
New to the Neighborhood
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:21 am

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Ramlco »

skinfan23 wrote: Even if you were to have to walk 6 blocks, that is a very short distance. I think most people will be ok walking that distance. Unless the garages downtown were completely full, this is absolutely a parking perception.
Its fine to say that walking six blocks is a short distance, but its a huge turnoff for most people, especially in dress clothes and in the winter.

The perception is definitely that there isn't enough parking downtown. Simply telling people it's not actually problem isn't going to bring them there. Perceptions are formed from experiences.
User avatar
GetUrban
Planning Board
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: Omaha

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by GetUrban »

The fact is parking can be a hassle almost anywhere in the city for activities that attract a significant number of people. Sometimes you're not going to get a space within 200', unless you really need it, i.e. you are handicap. In cities, compromises must be made. If the Holland center can't fit enough parking right next to their building without tearing down neighboring buildings, maybe they should reduce the number of parking stalls down to whatever it takes to fit into the space available and improve the valet parking service, and build a tunnel from the nearby garages. Quite a bit of effort was expended to save these historic buildings 10 years ago, and for the last 130+ years for that matter. The only thing that has changed is HDR is coming downtown (heavy-handed) with their own 1000 stall garage planned. Build a tunnel to that one too, if need be. I can almost guarantee that if you are going to attend an event at the CLINK, TD Ameritrade stadium, or dine at a restaurant in the Old Market, you are most likely going to walk further than 200-300 feet. Who knows, you might even enjoy it.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
Ramlco
New to the Neighborhood
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:21 am

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Ramlco »

As I've mentioned before, I'm not saying that the Holland should tear down historic buildings for a parking garage. But not acknowledging that Omaha has a parking problem downtown is an issue that is going to continue to get worse as more people and businesses move into the area.

I've attached a map of Omaha's downtown parking garages and Lincoln's downtown garages. Notice how many more garages are available in the Haymarket/Railyard area of Lincoln vs the Old Market area.
Attachments
Omaha Parking
Omaha Parking
Omaha Parking.JPG (153.88 KiB) Viewed 2651 times
Lincoln Parking
Lincoln Parking
Lincoln Parking.JPG (41.24 KiB) Viewed 2651 times
User avatar
skinzfan23
City Council
Posts: 9138
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:26 am
Location: Omaha/Bellevue

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by skinzfan23 »

Two things:
1) what are the number of spaces for the garages? Omaha Park 8 has nearly 1,300 stalls. Park 6 has over 900 and Park One has over 700.
2) You forgot to add all the parking lots in downtown Omaha as well.
Ramlco
New to the Neighborhood
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:21 am

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Ramlco »

The Omaha map is from the following link and does include city surface parking. If there is something missing, maybe its private and not on the city map?
http://parkomaha.com/map/

The Lincoln map is from here:
http://parkandgo.org/find-parking/interactive-map/

All three of those garages are well North of the old market by 5 or 6 blocks. If you can set a large enough radius you can make a case that we have enough parking spots, but if people don't use them because they are too far away its a not a valid point.

Some people probably do enjoy walking that far, but that's not the majority and probably contributes to this "perception problem".
User avatar
skinzfan23
City Council
Posts: 9138
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:26 am
Location: Omaha/Bellevue

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by skinzfan23 »

I don't believe the Omaha map shows any surface lots. It doesn't show the block where HDR is going to build, the surface lots in the Old Market and b/c they are off the map, the vast parking lots near the Centurylink Center.
swgiust
Library Board
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:17 am
Location: Omaha Metro Area

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by swgiust »

Park 8 is a classic city run, horribly managed, parking garage. The garage is not open all the time. Only on certain event nights. Then it closes 2 hours after an event. I know people who have had cars stuck in there overnight. They do a horrible job of getting people in quickly. Cars will line up around the block on a concert night.
User avatar
skinzfan23
City Council
Posts: 9138
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:26 am
Location: Omaha/Bellevue

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by skinzfan23 »

swgiust wrote:Park 8 is a classic city run, horribly managed, parking garage. The garage is not open all the time. Only on certain event nights. Then it closes 2 hours after an event. I know people who have had cars stuck in there overnight. They do a horrible job of getting people in quickly. Cars will line up around the block on a concert night.
Now that I can agree with. The city touts these garages but rarely has them available as they should be. Especially the CWS.
mattl181
Home Owners Association
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:28 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by mattl181 »

swgiust wrote:Park 8 is a classic city run, horribly managed, parking garage. The garage is not open all the time. Only on certain event nights. Then it closes 2 hours after an event. I know people who have had cars stuck in there overnight. They do a horrible job of getting people in quickly. Cars will line up around the block on a concert night.
I think that is definitely part of the problem. The city runs the garages TERRIBLY. For example, I work at the NE State Office building (yes, the big red ugly box) and park in the parking garage next to the Chamber. This garage was supposed to be one that was open to the public after five and on the weekends, but I have yet to see it open and available. Anyone have any experience trying to use it?

We need clear, consistent rules for every city garage. We can't say one thing and then run them a completely different way, if at all. Downtown Omaha has more than enough parking for the amount of people living/visiting but we need to run it in a much smarter way, something I thought the whole Park Omaha rebranding was going to take care of..
User avatar
skinzfan23
City Council
Posts: 9138
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:26 am
Location: Omaha/Bellevue

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by skinzfan23 »

Thats too bad if that isn't operating as they stated. I was thinking of using that garage if I go downtown, but thanks for the heads up that it isn't open like they stated it would be.
User avatar
iamjacobm
City Council
Posts: 10377
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by iamjacobm »

I didn't use it but last time I drove by they had a sign directing people to use it. I think it was a $2 flat fee but don't hold me to that.
mattl181
Home Owners Association
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:28 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by mattl181 »

skinzfan23 wrote:Thats too bad if that isn't operating as they stated. I was thinking of using that garage if I go downtown, but thanks for the heads up that it isn't open like they stated it would be.
I too have seen the $2 flat rate signs sitting outside, but the gate to the garage was down and there is no button to push to get a ticket like at other garages, just a numeric keypad. Didn't see a code to enter on the signs either. I even used the garage when there was an event at the Orpheum over this past weekend and there was nothing. Gate down, no sign and no cars parked in here.

Would seem like they could make a killing when surface lots are advertising $8-$10 for parking during Orpheum events. Just all very confusing as they advertised this as an option (a really good option, right in the heart of the OM, in my opinion) and don't seem to be following through.
MTO
City Council
Posts: 7806
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:49 am
Location: Dundee

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by MTO »

Was thinking since the city seams to be down with developers disrupting the grid they may as well let them have 11th too.
15-17, 26, 32
User avatar
mcarch
Library Board
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Elkhorn

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by mcarch »

mattl181 wrote:
swgiust wrote:Park 8 is a classic city run, horribly managed, parking garage. The garage is not open all the time. Only on certain event nights. Then it closes 2 hours after an event. I know people who have had cars stuck in there overnight. They do a horrible job of getting people in quickly. Cars will line up around the block on a concert night.
I think that is definitely part of the problem. The city runs the garages TERRIBLY. For example, I work at the NE State Office building (yes, the big red ugly box) and park in the parking garage next to the Chamber. This garage was supposed to be one that was open to the public after five and on the weekends, but I have yet to see it open and available. Anyone have any experience trying to use it?

We need clear, consistent rules for every city garage. We can't say one thing and then run them a completely different way, if at all. Downtown Omaha has more than enough parking for the amount of people living/visiting but we need to run it in a much smarter way, something I thought the whole Park Omaha rebranding was going to take care of..
City Run... is another name for Government Run... and when does the government run something with any sort of a brain?
garyomaha
Home Owners Association
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:53 am
Location: Omaha Metro Area

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by garyomaha »

I hate to disagree, but...

We have been to many, many events at the Holland. We have almost always parked in the parking structure just north of the Holland. There has always been ample parking. Then again -- and this may be important -- we tend not to show up at the last minute. We arrive early, find parking, walk over to the Holland, and enjoy the building and seeing people before they open the house.

Okay, if it's raining or snowing, jogging across the street between the garage and the Holland can be annoying. But that's Omaha weather! I am surprised they did not install an underground tunnel or skywalk -- the skywalk at the Orpheum is great. (Though, the Orpheum garage is run by OPPD and perhaps there's better management than the city-run garages?)

Sorry, we've not had a parking problem.
lisanstan
Library Board
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:20 pm

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by lisanstan »

Every year I go to the Christmas show at the Holland which is always one of the most attended events. I have never had a problem finding parking. I have parked in the Harney Street garage and on Farnam next to the park.
User avatar
GetUrban
Planning Board
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: Omaha

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by GetUrban »

MTO wrote:Was thinking since the city seams to be down with developers disrupting the grid they may as well let them have 11th too.
You don't mean closing 11th street to traffic do you? I think they're only talking about adding some site amenities such as special paving, benches, etc. They'll have to leave vehicle access east of the new HDR HQ for Ford Warhouse residents to drive into their garage. Unless they plan to have the city buy that for them to tear down later.

I was just looking at Paris on Google Earth....seems like we're arguing over minuscule crumbs and fragments of urban form here in Omaha, compared to even their most basic background urban fabric. Guess that's all we've got though.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
User avatar
Garrett
Planning Board
Posts: 3487
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:29 pm
Location: New York City

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Garrett »

Paris is also an ancient city, a former imperial capital, and one of the densest cities in the world.
OMA-->CHI-->NYC
User avatar
RNcyanide
Planning Board
Posts: 2780
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:37 am
Location: Boston

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by RNcyanide »

I don't envy Paris one bit on their urban composition. Yeah our downtown grid is a little off with superblocks and ConAgra screwing things up, but at least our downtown isn't a tangled and cob-webbed mess of streets and roundabouts.
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.

The Bride
Professor Woland
Library Board
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 8:28 pm
Location: Omaha Metro Area

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by Professor Woland »

Also most posters here would absolutely freak out if they lived in Paris when most of the city took its present form. The process of Haussmanization would be so traumatic it would send some into catatonic states.
MTO
City Council
Posts: 7806
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:49 am
Location: Dundee

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by MTO »

I think if your Paris a f-upped street grid doesn't matter.
15-17, 26, 32
User avatar
RNcyanide
Planning Board
Posts: 2780
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:37 am
Location: Boston

Re: Holland's Greenspace

Post by RNcyanide »

MTO wrote:I think if your Paris a f-upped street grid doesn't matter.
It was actually greatly improved under the rule of Napoleon. He had the streets widened and had the little alleyways that sometimes were used as streets blocked off, which allowed for multiple lanes of traffic and made it harder for people to barricade streets for protests and the occasional revolution and such.
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.

The Bride
Post Reply