Holland's Greenspace

dto · Post by **dto** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:08 pm

Keep hearing rumors that there is going to be a parking garage in this space... any one have details?

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:25 pm

With first floor retail, please?

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:30 pm

dto wrote:Keep hearing rumors that there is going to be a parking garage in this space... any one have details?

That's what I'm hearing recently too...except all the way to 11th Street, with current tenants moving to some other unknown location. Nothing official though.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:43 pm

More dead space around GLM woohoo!

dto · Post by **dto** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:14 pm

It seems silly that it would only be a parking garage. First Floor Retail and even some new office space would be nice.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:17 pm

Retail would be perfect right there.

U R my Helix · Post by **U R my Helix** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:01 pm

Green space is good. It makes urban areas interesting and adds foot traffic. I have seen hundreds of people in the old market trying to look into the gated courtyard area in the old market. Take the stone pillars from the Metz mansion and put them in front of the green space as a vinyette, add a wrought iron fence covered by vines and a garden ...... Instant attraction.

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:13 pm

Buildings are good too. We need more of them.

U R my Helix · Post by **U R my Helix** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:45 pm

GetUrban wrote:Buildings are good too. We need more of them.

There are things other than buildings that are good for an area. Here is one example from a very successful urban metro area. Figure out a way to have green space / attractions / and buildings. Vegas if full of these, yes they have gambling but they also offer a lot of activity's that draw people to an area and keep them around. We have buildings, we have people, we have bars & restaurants & event venues what we lack in this area other then special times like the mall tree lighting are ongoing attractions. Something to bring our out of town visitors to see. We used to give friends a driving tour of the city (the Regency mansions used to be on the tour). The downtown area lacks family friendly free time events that keep them in the area.

: Vegas Volcano.jpg (12.05 KiB) Viewed 2590 times

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:24 pm

That's true, but we already have GLM and HOA parks with their water features , Lewis & Clark Landing, Bob Kerrey Bridge with a connection to River's Edge Park across the river, Miller's Landing up by Gallup , and the Pioneer Courage sculpture garden up by the OWH. They could be made even better. Why not put some of the ideas you have into the greenspaces that are already there? More buildings with more people living, working, performing, eating, drinking, shopping etc. is what we need to make it a more vibrant, active, urban, fun place to be. We are running a little short on buildings, compared to what we had 40-50 years ago, but we're on the right track now.

omahahawk · Post by **omahahawk** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:52 am

Not sure who this supposed parking garage is intended to benefit. If HDR has their own parking garage as part of their building and Shamrock has their own parking garage I wouldn't think the Holland could justify it for their performances as the garage on Capital is mostly empty at night. Although maybe the garage at Shamrock won't be big enough alone to handle projected demand. In any case street level retail would be essential though in any garage on this space.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:54 am

Now that I think about we shouldn't want a garage here as fronts the mall. And furthermore I doubt HDR wants two garages outside their headquarters. RFP around the junk pile on the south east corner for something mid-rise that aesthetically complements the Holland but doesn't block the HDR <> Central Park view.

dto · Post by **dto** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:30 pm

Not that I understand it, but it seem like the Holland wants to have their own parking.
I also cant imagine anything else going up unless the other building on the block come down.

Joe_Sovereign · Post by **Joe_Sovereign** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:36 am

They could rent space in the parking garage during the day. Parking in the garage attached to The World Herald Building is $115 per month, the surface lot where HDR is building is full of cars today who are going to need somewhere to park during the day. It wouldn't be empty.

I don't have a huge problem with a garage as long as the existing historic buildings aren't touched. It would be very nice if it was in someway mixed use with ground level retail or office space or some kind of structure on top of the garage such as office or performance practice space. At least a green roof.

garyomaha · Post by **garyomaha** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:49 pm

Just a thought, as an occasional Holland visitor. You can drop a lot of money on tickets for some events there, and there's no connected parking. The Orpheum spoiled the concept of "walking" and "umbrellas" for some when the skywalk to the OPPD garage was installed. Stay dry from your garage at home to your seat at the show. Perhaps some people have enough clout to get a connected parking garage next to the Holland, even though, yes, the garage across Capitol is just a few (possibly wet) steps away.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:28 pm

garyomaha wrote:Just a thought, as an occasional Holland visitor. You can drop a lot of money on tickets for some events there, and there's no connected parking. The Orpheum spoiled the concept of "walking" and "umbrellas" for some when the skywalk to the OPPD garage was installed. Stay dry from your garage at home to your seat at the show. Perhaps some people have enough clout to get a connected parking garage next to the Holland, even though, yes, the garage across Capitol is just a few (possibly wet) steps away.

I am totally fine with them wanting connected parking. Putting just a parking structure that will essentially create a lifeless wall from 13th to 11th around GLM is repeating the exact same mistake that was made directly on the south side of the park with the Landmark Center. Literally going to line the park on both sides with giant blank concrete nothingness and continue to wonder why the park doesn't always live up to the potential it could have.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:53 pm

Just valet, it'll give you peace of mind to enjoy the night.

Seth · Post by **Seth** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:08 pm

To me, it just seems wasteful and redundant to have separate parking for the Holland and surrounding daytime office buildings. They're are plenty of opportunities to share the space between users. The OPPD garage and Orpheum are a perfect example.

Linkin5 · Post by **Linkin5** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:13 pm

Seth wrote:To me, it just seems wasteful and redundant to have separate parking for the Holland and surrounding daytime office buildings. They're are plenty of opportunities to share the space between users. The OPPD garage and Orpheum are a perfect example.

I would definitely agree.

U R my Helix · Post by **U R my Helix** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:15 pm

First let me say that the owners of this property should have the right to do whatever they want with it.
But wouldn’t it be the ideal spot for a public arts project that incorporates the long term placement of musical instruments?

The play me piano for example, with an orchestra of accompanying items. Here is an example of a similar project.

http://freenotesharmonypark.com/product ... allations/

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:47 am

Recently heard more insider talk about the area east of the Holland, including the existing historical buildings coming down. Apparently, it will become a Tack Architects-designed parking garage with first floor retail fronting the GLM. The owner of the Happy Hollow Coffee and Specht buildings also replaced the former Theisen mansion in Regency with the Tack-designed ART [house]. Given their track record, it could be a very interesting design. But it comes at the cost of losing the historic Specht building. Hopefully the facade can at least be saved or re-assembled somewhere else.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:38 am

Perfect local for a unique building even if it's a parking garage. Would be great if they could stack apartments above like DSM did.

Joe_Sovereign · Post by **Joe_Sovereign** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:48 am

There is plenty of room to build a garage without tearing down the historic buildings!!!

Post by **Brad** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:55 am

Joe_Sovereign wrote:There is plenty of room to build a garage without tearing down the historic buildings!!!

Totally Agree...

"Omaha... We Don't Coast, We Blow Up History Every Chance We Get!".

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:59 am

Here's a photo of the Specht building from Douglas Street....

...and a link to more info...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Specht_Building

It has survived the wrecking ball before...

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:08 am

This would be yet another sad day in Omaha's history if those buildings were torn down for a parking garage. I don't care how nice you try to make it, but a parking garage is just that and nothing more. These historical buildings be torn down can't be undone. Just like Jobber's Canyon, you can't tear down the buildings and then years later hope that you didn't.

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:19 am

I agree. I'd much rather see them stay intact. This time, it appears the owners of the building to the east of Specht are ready to let theirs go. If these buildings do come down, the larger 4-story Pinnacle Bank building east of 11th will lose even more of it's original historic context.

I wonder how much of a fight the preservation community will be able to muster on this one. The anger over Jobbers is still simmering and has been intensified with ConAgra itself erasing most of their justification for that nightmare happening. In this case, It will be tough, if not impossible to save anything if the owners are the enablers.

mr. omaha · Post by **mr. omaha** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:12 pm

THIS CITY IS SO MYOPIC AND SHORT-SIGHTED IT IS ABSOLUTELY SICKENING!!!!

I am certain that if they could, all the dunces out there who are somehow now in a position of power, and who seemingly get their jollies via a wrecking ball, would tear everything historic in this town down build a parking lot on it. It's not like there ain't tons of other opportunity in and around downtown to develop better parking options on underutilized, neglected, or overgrown lots which currently DO NOT contain historic structures, so that these lazy people can have a convenient place to park whatever lifestyle vehicle they own while they spend a few hours pretending to be "hip" and "trendy" during the one or two times a year they visit downtown. These are the same idiots who say downtown is "dangerous at night"... Screw you people.

These self-promoting jerkoffs have absolutely NO respect for the things that came before them that helped make this town what it is (was).

I can see the new Chamber of Commerce tourism ads now.....

"Greetings From Omaha! Visit our historic PARKING GARAGES!!!"

NovakOmaha · Post by **NovakOmaha** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:27 pm

Google World Theater Omaha & take a look at what gave way to OmahaPark One. Google Rialto Theater Omaha & see what gave way to what is now the headquarters for the owh. You could have a whole discussion about old Omaha theaters. I know one screen theaters aren't really feasible these days, especially downtown, but the Rialto especially was a palace inside and out. Other cities have performing arts halls without attached parking garages. What is it about Omaha that in order for a venue to succeed people need to park, INSIDE, immediately next to the venue?

Here in Detroit the Fox Theater is the Orpheum of Detroit...an old vaudeville house that the Little Caesars billionaires rehabbed into a beautiful broadway performance venue. We go there a few times a year. We park a block or more away and walk. And that's downtown Detroit. AND we live to tell.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:30 pm

I just think its ironic how this past week there was a bunch of pub about how the Holland has changed Omaha's cultural scene and has become a hub for the arts ect. You would think an organization that prides itself on things like that would have a different perspective about a city's past than this.

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:31 pm

I doesn't make much sense at all, especially since there is already a full-block parking garage directly north of the Holland, and even more coming on the next block east with the HDR high-rise. It would be easy to build a tunnel or skywalk to the Holland from one or both of the garages. My guess is HDR also wants some control over their view to the south, adding their influence to affect future plans for the Holland....of which they were/are the architect.

The Holland has been successful for 10 years without adjacent parking to the east. Why do they need it now?

In too many cases, it seems like for every good or even mediocre thing we have in Omaha, we often gave up something better.

Seth · Post by **Seth** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:43 pm

With the recent discussion about downtown parking, why this territorial need for dedicated parking still persists is beyond me. TicketOmaha's other venue at the Orpheum works great sharing space with commerical parking; why can't they do it here? There are tons of empty garages within mere blocks during the typical event.

Joe_Sovereign · Post by **Joe_Sovereign** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:36 pm

A well designed garage with ground level retail and better yet office or residential on top as well would be a big improvement over the current green space.

There is ZERO reason why you would need to tear down the Historic Buildings to make this happen.

This is parking for 1600 cars and would fit in the current green space

mr. omaha · Post by **mr. omaha** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:52 pm

Hey, all you dunces at Holland.... HERE'S A NOVEL IDEA:

Post by **BRoss** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:57 pm

mr. omaha wrote:Hey, all you dunces at Holland.... HERE'S A NOVEL IDEA:

That would be awesome!

Post by **Coyote** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:02 pm

How about putting the Frankie Pane façade in there ?

Midwestern · Post by **Midwestern** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:13 pm

The GLM destroyed so much already, it would be a shame to lose almost every historic building north of Farnam from 10th-14th.

Joe_Sovereign · Post by **Joe_Sovereign** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:19 pm

mr. omaha wrote:Hey, all you dunces at Holland.... HERE'S A NOVEL IDEA:

Imagine this but with ground level retail and a modern design matching the Holland.

NovakOmaha · Post by **NovakOmaha** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:50 pm

What the Holland didn't spur, what the mall didn't spur, what could have made the mall area special and really could have made downtown explode....was anything other than office and parking space. No retail, no restaurants, no housing, etc. Nothing to make the area surrounding the mall 24 hour or even 18 hour. A 20 story apartment building with ground floor restaurant would have been so bad?

Midwestern · Post by **Midwestern** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:20 pm

NovakOmaha wrote:What the Holland didn't spur, what the mall didn't spur, what could have made the mall area special and really could have made downtown explode....was anything other than office and parking space. No retail, no restaurants, no housing, etc. Nothing to make the area surrounding the mall 24 hour or even 18 hour. A 20 story apartment building with ground floor restaurant would have been so bad?

This area is kinda already screwed when it comes to attaining any sense of daily vibrancy. Almost all of those 3-4 story neat buildings around this area that could have supported retail or restaurants and been an extension of OM are long gone. And now you have GLM as a barrier. And there's no 11th street crossing of GLM. Not that it matters -- what retail is on the other side of the GLM from this area anyway? It's a big concrete slab of NOTHING.

How can anyone make a strong case to save these buildings that will actually convince their owners to keep them when all of the other retail surrounding GLM has already been destroyed? Offices and the Holland Center + parking for those two things it is, then.

I hate losing the architecture/history as much as anyone, but you've gotta be realistic.