Urban Grocery Store

Downtown, Midtown, and all parts east of 72nd.

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Urban Grocery Store

Postby Coyote » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:41 am

David Brown, Pres. & CEO of the Chamber mentioned that there are two Grocery Stores that are looking at Downtown Omaha to build an Urban Grocery Store. We have multiple threads were the need for a downtown grocery store would be a huge asset in Omaha...

Where would the best location for this to land? What amenities and features would we want to see?
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby iamjacobm » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:07 am

I have to think you want it south of 480. Would 10th and Harney be an option? I think youoght want to try and find something closer to 15th so it's more central.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby MTO » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:26 am

Whatever it is it'd better not be s standalone structure.
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby iamjacobm » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:31 am

Actually the best location is probably the Lanoha Tower site. Close enough to the existing base around the Old Market and not too far from the growing North DT on the BRT line good interstate connection right by a lot of jobs to get strong lunch business.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Garrett » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:17 am

If possible, the Chamber building and the O Dude site would be amazing. Close to the new BRT, essentially in the Old Market/Market West area, and accessible to the North Downtown areas. Of course, as Jacob mentioned, the Lanoha site would be great as well. And, of course, the Capitol District, but that may take more time than a grocer wants to wait.
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby iamjacobm » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:35 am

It depends what kind of store we are talking about too. A full fledged urban Target type store or something like HyVee in DT DSM. Vey different sizes with very different needs in terms of parking, square footage and delivery logistics.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Professor Woland » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:00 pm

iamjacobm wrote:It depends what kind of store we are talking about too. A full fledged urban Target type store or something like HyVee in DT DSM. Vey different sizes with very different needs in terms of parking, square footage and delivery logistics.


We probably won't get a second Whole Foods yet, but something like their store in the bowery or their store in the Pearl District in Portland would be cool.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Midwestern » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:00 pm

Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and Hy-Vee are realistically the only ones I could see looking at this right now, so probably two of those three. An urban Target would be amazing but I doubt Target or Wal-Mart are looking here, although I supposed Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market is an option.

Anyway, the location of this definitely will make or break its success. It 100% for sure needs to be south of 480. The best place would be somewhere where it could easily get business from the DT worker population while obviously also getting business from the DT population. I don't think anything on 10th street would be a good idea -- much too far away from the major employers -- but it could still work out.

To me the best lots from most to least ideal would be:

1. Bid red box lot (state offices)
2. Chamber lot (13th-14th Harney)
3. Library lot
4. Lanoha lot
5. Somewhere along 10th street south of 480

I'm not sure any other realistic location would end up being successful. The Tetrad site would be way too far from most of the apartment/condo population and would require needing a fairly large surface lot at first which I suppose in this case wouldn't be the worst thing in the world since it could be easily developed on later.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Professor Woland » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:09 pm

Midwestern wrote:Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and Hy-Vee are realistically the only ones I could see looking at this right now, so probably two of those three. An urban Target would be amazing but I doubt Target or Wal-Mart are looking here, although I supposed Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market is an option.

Anyway, the location of this definitely will make or break its success. It 100% for sure needs to be south of 480. The best place would be somewhere where it could easily get business from the DT worker population while obviously also getting business from the DT population. I don't think anything on 10th street would be a good idea -- much too far away from the major employers -- but it could still work out.

To me the best lots from most to least ideal would be:

1. Bid red box lot (state offices)
2. Chamber lot (13th-14th Harney)
3. Library lot
4. Lanoha lot
5. Somewhere along 10th street south of 480

I'm not sure any other realistic location would end up being successful. The Tetrad site would be way too far from most of the apartment/condo population and would require needing a fairly large surface lot at first which I suppose in this case wouldn't be the worst thing in the world since it could be easily developed on later.


I think if it took up a good portion of the first floor of the Lanoha lot with a tall structure above it, it would be perfect. When I used to walk around downtown and imagine what I would do (which buildings would be razed, which would be saved, what would go where, etc.), I had that site pegged as either a large Whole Foods with a condo tower above it or Omaha's Neiman Marcus store (the Sachs Fifth Avenue would have gone on the lot where HDR is building. Anyhow, the Lanoha lot would get my vote.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Linkin5 » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:52 pm

Needs to be at the base of a residential tower, a standalone would be a waste of land and way too expensive in the downtown area.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby GetUrban » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:45 am

You'd have to look at how much foot traffic from nearby residents it would actually take to make a profit. Otherwise a full-scale Hy-Vee type store would almost certainly have to depend on people driving to the location and parking in a free garage or unfortunately, surface parking, in addition to DT resident customers. A sufficient number of DT residents available as customers would be the thing most needed for an "urban-style" non-surface lot type store to succeed. I don't think you can count on many grocery store customers from people who only work downtown, which until recently has been in decline since the 50's. I'd love to see an urban super Target come in at the Lanoha, civic, or HDR site, but I'm doubtful there are enough potential customers to support one just yet. A store like that could draw from a 2-4 mile radius though...then you'd need easy, free parking.
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Midwestern » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:15 pm

Well, as long as the building with the grocery store is right up on the sidewalk (can't remember the urban planning term for a building with no set-back from the sidewalk) then having a surface lot wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It would have to be a surface lot though, I can't see many Omahans buying their groceries and then going into a parking garage. That would be a little bit too much of a leap from the current norm.

If one of the two stores was a Trader Joe's that had a small surface lot, I think DT could support both TJ's and a Hy-Vee. TJ's with fairly easy parking would be a big draw from people within a 5-mile radius.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby lmdramos » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:55 pm

There's a city target by me....walking out straight in to the garage is so nice...don't have to worry about the weather!

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby iamjacobm » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:09 pm

Midwestern wrote:Well, as long as the building with the grocery store is right up on the sidewalk (can't remember the urban planning term for a building with no set-back from the sidewalk) then having a surface lot wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It would have to be a surface lot though, I can't see many Omahans buying their groceries and then going into a parking garage. That would be a little bit too much of a leap from the current norm.

If one of the two stores was a Trader Joe's that had a small surface lot, I think DT could support both TJ's and a Hy-Vee. TJ's with fairly easy parking would be a big draw from people within a 5-mile radius.


The reason I mentioned interstate access in my post is b/c it is no doubt that this store would need more than a DT population to thrive. As for the surface lot issue, i disagree. If the garage is free for grocery shopping than I don't see any issue at all with it. As mentioned who wouldn't want to be out of the elements during the winter or a rain storm.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Midwestern » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:20 pm

iamjacobm wrote:
Midwestern wrote:Well, as long as the building with the grocery store is right up on the sidewalk (can't remember the urban planning term for a building with no set-back from the sidewalk) then having a surface lot wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It would have to be a surface lot though, I can't see many Omahans buying their groceries and then going into a parking garage. That would be a little bit too much of a leap from the current norm.

If one of the two stores was a Trader Joe's that had a small surface lot, I think DT could support both TJ's and a Hy-Vee. TJ's with fairly easy parking would be a big draw from people within a 5-mile radius.


The reason I mentioned interstate access in my post is b/c it is no doubt that this store would need more than a DT population to thrive. As for the surface lot issue, i disagree. If the garage is free for grocery shopping than I don't see any issue at all with it. As mentioned who wouldn't want to be out of the elements during the winter or a rain storm.


We can hardly get people to use the plentiful parking garages we have now for non-work related purposes. Although in general I would think those living within a 3 mile radius of this potential store would be more willing to park in a garage than the rest of Omaha as a whole, so maybe you're right it's not such an issue at all.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Ben » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:19 am

I wouldn't be surprised if they're looking at the retail space in the new Capitol district buildings...

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Greg S » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:09 am

I'd vote for Cosentino's, just like the one they have in Power and Light in KC. Was in it again this weekend. Great mix of groceries, liquor, grab and go meals, along with a café.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby NEDodger » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:31 pm

Cosentino's IS great. We always head over there for a late breakfast whenever we're staying in Power and Light. Can also pick up some bottled Jack Stack's BBQ sauce.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Greg S » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:48 am

Yeah they have a great BBQ sauce selection.

How's the breakfast? We stayed at the Downtown Marriott last weekend and almost went there.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby PotatoeEatsFish » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:40 am

They should make it look like the old department stores in cities, it could be almost as big as a mall kind of like the Macy's Building in New York only not as large.
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Coyote » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:31 am

If we could get something like a grocer and a Marshall Field’s with offices/apartment/condos, on the red brick building lot, that would be way cool.
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Garrett » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:36 am

Might have to do some time traveling for that, Coyote.
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby NEDodger » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:15 am

Greg S wrote:Yeah they have a great BBQ sauce selection.

How's the breakfast? We stayed at the Downtown Marriott last weekend and almost went there.

Greg


It's not bad - they've got a little buffet so it's quick to just grab what you want. Really inexpensive too. For the area, we've just always thought it was a great option.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Greg S » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:26 am

Will have to try it sometime. They seem to do a real good business. We bought a bunch of stuff there for our tailgate at the Royals game.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby HskrFanMike » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:13 pm

What about at ground level in the proposed HDR building or Tetrad project at the Civic?

If someone really wanted to do standalone, what about under the interstate?
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby GetUrban » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:27 pm

HskrFanMike wrote:What about at ground level in the proposed HDR building or Tetrad project at the Civic?

If someone really wanted to do standalone, what about under the interstate?


The first two have been mentioned earlier in the thread. With the number of people HDR will have coming and going from their HQ building and garage, there would have to be a pretty good separation to avoid congestion with the grocery store crowd. The site is a whole block though, and the tower footprint won't likely take up that much space, so it's doable.

It would be great if the space under I-480 could be used for a store, but I wonder if that is even allowed code-wise. That would complicate bridge maintenance and fire fighting if the store ever caught fire. I like the idea of getting rid of I-480 and tuning it into a boulevard.
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby MTO » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:06 pm

I'm all for a big box grocer so as long as it doesn't force Patrick's and Wohlner's to close those are my two favorite places to grab groceries in town.
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Garrett » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:55 pm

Though not likely... If Omaha could get a Mariano's I would be set.
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby iamjacobm » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:14 pm

Need to remember HDR doesn't have a very fast timeline though. If a grocery store were to go there it would be 2019 until it opened. If places are actively looking I doubt they want to wait nearly 5 years before a return.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Midwestern » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:23 pm

I would think that only companies that already have a presence in Omaha would be looking to open a downtown store, especially since it has to be seen as a fairly un-proven/risky model.

So I would think Hy-Vee, Kroger (Bakers), Spartan Nash (Family Fare/No Frills/BagNSave), Trader Joes, etc.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby iamjacobm » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:25 pm

IMO Hy-Vee and Whole Foods would be most likely. Hy-Vee is trying it in Des Moines and Omaha is a huge market for them. WF has introduced a new smaller concept for urban areas that wouldn't shock me.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Midwestern » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:29 pm

My guess would be that one of the two is for sure Hy-Vee, and the second is either a smaller footprint Whole Foods or a Trader Joes. I think Trader Joes already has a lot of experience with urban locations.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Coyote » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:19 pm

Don't leave an urban Target out of this mix.
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby SaveOmaha » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:55 pm

Coyote wrote:Don't leave an urban Target out of this mix.


I hope you know something we don't know :D

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Linkin5 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:02 pm

iamjacobm wrote:IMO Hy-Vee and Whole Foods would be most likely. Hy-Vee is trying it in Des Moines and Omaha is a huge market for them. WF has introduced a new smaller concept for urban areas that wouldn't shock me.


Just went to an urban WF in Minneapolis, it was really nice my only complaint with WF is it's pricey, Trader Joes would be ideal IMO.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby mr. omaha » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:09 pm

The smaller Hy-Vee Drugstore in Florence is great.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby nativeomahan » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:21 pm

I can't see anything other than a specialty store settling downtown. Trader Joes. Whole Foods or something similar. The store would have to be special in order to draw people from beyond downtown. There aren't enough downtown residents to support a Hy-Vee. While quite a few new residences are being built, they are spread out over about a square mile. No one location could be self sustaining just with walk in residential and business traffic. If that wasn't the case a Hy-Vee type store would already be open.

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby SaveOmaha » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:39 pm

My dream spot would be in the Brandeis Building. The retail there has been an absolute bust. The area really needs a shot in the arm, and the Brandeis is kind of in the thick of things. Plus it's an absolutely incredible building. But the parking situation...

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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Coyote » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:59 pm

I see a trend developing here... Who would the urban market be geared towards?
A working clientele who may need quick lunch or dinner options,
A residential clientele who may need a quick home meal option...

How many sq ft would said grocery store really need?
How much is Cubby's or Patrick's? Who do they cater to?
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Re: Urban Grocery Store

Postby Midwestern » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:50 am

To me, the sq feet of the space isn't that big of a deal, it is all about the pricing. THAT is what we are missing for downtown is a market where the groceries are priced evenly with other supermarkets in town.

Patrick's is neat and all, but they don't come close to Hy-Vee/Bakers on prices. You actually could probably end up spending twice as much there for the same exact items on a lot of stuff. I'm definitely glad Patrick's exists, but we need something way better on pricing. And at least double the sq feet of Patrick's would be nice, but not required by any means.


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