Omaha Forums

Midwestern wrote:To me, the sq feet of the space isn't that big of a deal, it is all about the pricing. THAT is what we are missing for downtown is a market where the groceries are priced evenly with other supermarkets in town.

Patrick's is neat and all, but they don't come close to Hy-Vee/Bakers on prices. You actually could probably end up spending twice as much there for the same exact items on a lot of stuff. I'm definitely glad Patrick's exists, but we need something way better on pricing. And at least double the sq feet of Patrick's would be nice, but not required by any means.

Definitely. If you lived dt and did all of your shopping at Patricks and/or Cubby's you would be raked over the coals. An affordable option (Hy-Vee, Baker's, even Target) would do wonders for people looking to raise families downtown.

You know, despite being the centerpiece of a metro about 4x the size of Omaha....it wasn't more than a handful of years ago that Minneapolis didn't have a single legitimate full-size/service downtown grocer. Oh sure, there were little markets and bodegas here and there. And that's good and necessary. But now there is a Lunds/Byerlys at Hennepin and 11th, which is kinda the southernish edge of the CBD, a Whole Foods at Hennepin & Washington, the northernish edge of the CBD, and just across the river to the north is another Lunds/Byerlys at Hennepin & University.

It's not perfect. It leaves a big chunk of the DT area, especially the eastern part, still not particularly close to a grocery store. Oh you could walk it, but it'd be a bit of a haul. That having been said, it's on public transit lines and is still MUCH better than it was, and way better than having nothing nearby at all and having to go to the suburbs to shop at a legit grocery store.

Oh, and there's also a multi-level Target store at 9th and Nicollet. It's not a SuperTarget, so it does not have a full-fledged grocery area....but it has a reasonable selection of fresh and pre-packaged goods at typical reasonable Target prices.

Would be cool to have something like this in DTO. The tall building you see to the upper left is Target's HQ....so obviously the Twin Cities has a bit of a built-in "home field advantage" when it comes to having something like this in the CBD. But it seems reasonable to think that Omaha could sustain one grocery store, or maybe an urban Target/Walmart type of thing in its downtown.

I wish people were more concerned about getting another HQ or large sums of jobs downtown than a grocery store.

MTO wrote:I wish people were more concerned about getting another HQ or large sums of jobs downtown than a grocery store.

Sometimes it takes a city having amenities like these in order to attract larger companies to relocate downtown or move into the city. I don't think they are completely unconnected nor do I think most everyone here aren't concerned about bringing more jobs downtown.

Well we do have the best chamber of commerce if anyone can do both they can.

MTO wrote:I wish people were more concerned about getting another HQ or large sums of jobs downtown than a grocery store.

Getting a grocery store downtown would go a long way toward convincing some more companies to re-locate downtown from the suburbs, and retain the companies that already are downtown. It is all about making downtown a better place to both live AND work.

Midwestern wrote:To me, the sq feet of the space isn't that big of a deal, it is all about the pricing. THAT is what we are missing for downtown is a market where the groceries are priced evenly with other supermarkets in town.

Patrick's is neat and all, but they don't come close to Hy-Vee/Bakers on prices. You actually could probably end up spending twice as much there for the same exact items on a lot of stuff. I'm definitely glad Patrick's exists, but we need something way better on pricing. And at least double the sq feet of Patrick's would be nice, but not required by any means.

There are two problems, regarding pricing though:

1.) The rent/purchase of the property downtown is going to be a lot higher than what these stores would be paying out west, so that money has to be made up somewhere.

2.) Patrick's/any independent grocer is not going to be able to compete with the Baker's or Hy-Vee's on pricing because of the wholesale volume that the chains are purchasing.

I think there's a great chance that a supermarket makes it's way downtown, but I think it may be unrealistic to expect their prices to be in line with the rest of their locations. When I worked at Baker's, we had price discrepancies between stores - a supermarket that has to pay higher property costs downtown is almost assuredly going to have higher prices.

Midwestern wrote:

MTO wrote:I wish people were more concerned about getting another HQ or large sums of jobs downtown than a grocery store.

Getting a grocery store downtown would go a long way toward convincing some more companies to re-locate downtown from the suburbs, and retain the companies that already are downtown. It is all about making downtown a better place to both live AND work.

Grocery stores will locate close to where people live, more so than where they work. The increase in downtown residents will attract grocery stores more than any other factor. I agree with MTO that people shouldn't lose sight of the importance of landing another HQ or other smaller businesses downtown, but I agree a major grocery store may increase the chances of people wanting to live near where they work. I just hope any new HQs locating downtown won't come in as heavy-handed as ConAgra did. You have to be careful what you wish for.

Bottom line is a grocery will have to make a profit to survive, like any other business.

Water Tower Place in Chicago is very cool. I know Omaha couldn't build something on this scope but more than just a store would be good. More of like a small mall. http://chicagonista.com/wp-content/uplo ... Tower-.jpg

Denver now has a full service supermarket in Lower Downtown...

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_2 ... own-denver

The 46,475-square-foot King Soopers store will offer a full array of perishable and nonperishable foods, prepared meals packaged for a quick lunch, a Starbucks cafe open late with an outdoor patio, even a sit-down sushi bar — all specifically tailored to the downtown neighborhoods it will serve, a King Soopers spokeswoman said.

"A full-service grocery store has been on the docket for downtown for decades," Downtown Denver Partnership CEO Tami Door said. "The kicker has been that we needed enough residential population to support it out of the gate, and we needed enough in the pipeline to ensure the store would be able to grow."

David Livingston, a Wisconsin-based supermarket analyst, said grocery chains are looking for the kind of population density in downtowns that only comes with vertical development.

"In a downtown area, you really want to start with about 10,000 residents in your first half-mile," Livingston said.

Zip code 68102 had 6,102 residents at the 2010 Census. I would assume with all of the apartment projects over the past 5 years that that number is pretty close to 7,000 now.

Zip code 50309 (Des Moines DT + East Village) had 5,431 residents at the 2010 Census.

I would assume that if Hy-Vee feels the numbers work for Des Moines, then they'd work for Omaha as well.

Midwestern wrote:Zip code 68102 had 6,102 residents at the 2010 Census. I would assume with all of the apartment projects over the past 5 years that that number is pretty close to 7,000 now.

Zip code 50309 (Des Moines DT + East Village) had 5,431 residents at the 2010 Census.

I would assume that if Hy-Vee feels the numbers work for Des Moines, then they'd work for Omaha as well.

Most supermarket chains operate on pretty tight margins, so they're going to be very careful where they locate. I remember reading somewhere years ago (market survey study) that the magic number was at least 7,000 people per neighborhood per store. Maybe that explains the interest.

Midwestern wrote:Zip code 68102 had 6,102 residents at the 2010 Census. I would assume with all of the apartment projects over the past 5 years that that number is pretty close to 7,000 now.

Zip code 50309 (Des Moines DT + East Village) had 5,431 residents at the 2010 Census.

I would assume that if Hy-Vee feels the numbers work for Des Moines, then they'd work for Omaha as well.

Since HyVee HQ is in Des Moines I am sure they had some leniency in what numbers they needed.

I get what you're getting at, but I doubt they would open a grocery store just as a gesture of good will that they knew would lose money. I think they realize that know is the time for both cities to get in on that potential market before someone else does.

Midwestern wrote:I get what you're getting at, but I doubt they would open a grocery store just as a gesture of good will that they knew would lose money. I think they realize that know is the time for both cities to get in on that potential market before someone else does.

Not that they would open it on goodwill, but testing a concept w/o the bottom line as the most important thing is not uncommon for a company the size of Hy-Vee.

Here is what the Des Moines Hy-Vee will look like.

|expletive| me

Midwestern wrote:Here is what the Des Moines Hy-Vee will look like.

Complete with a great placement of their Market Grille restaurant on the corner...

Dear Hy-Vee:

We want something almost exactly like that in downtown Omaha.

Thanks!

Yeah that needs to be built in downtown Omaha yesterday. Such a smart idea to put apartments on top.

Coyote wrote:

Midwestern wrote:Here is what the Des Moines Hy-Vee will look like.

Complete with a great placement of their Market Grille restaurant on the corner...

No kidding. Having their Market Grille is perfect for an urban location.

...i feel like that's something that would jive better in MTC. Or maybe one of the lots in North Downtown. Otherwise, I'd want something with a little more oomph if it's in downtown proper. But I mean, it's cool and all.

And this is the best we can do, pathetic.

With the land they cleared from Clarinda-Page, maybe they have a second chance to get it right.

The funny thing is, there actually is a full service grocery store nearby. I don't know if people who live in the area have heard of it - it's called Supermercado. I actually really like the place, but I live nowhere near it. I assume because most (fairerskinned) people think it's an ethnic store, they wouldn't shop there.

MTO wrote:And this is the best we can do, pathetic.

Good point, I will take the look of this any day over the proposed look of the HyVee in Des Moines.

RNcyanide wrote:With the land they cleared from Clarinda-Page, maybe they have a second chance to get it right.

The funny thing is, there actually is a full service grocery store nearby. I don't know if people who live in the area have heard of it - it's called Supermercado. I actually really like the place, but I live nowhere near it. I assume because most (fairerskinned) people think it's an ethnic store, they wouldn't shop there.

That place is awesome! I used to love to shop there.

I wouldn't get too excited about this till a company says it will build.

You don't need to get excited, one already exists.

The Publix full size grocery store in downtown Ft. Lauderdale has an attached parking garage. You park above the store. The escalators are special belts that catch the specially made wheels on the shopping carts. It's actually pretty cool.

The new Hy-Vee in DT DSM looks pretty impressive and they have already said they are considering locations in DT Minneapolis and St. Paul. I have to imagine Omaha and maybe KC are on their list too.

KC already has nice full service DT grocery store. We usually stay downtown and it's very handy:

http://cosentinosmarket.com/downtown/

Minneapolis has multiple DT grocery options. The urban area of KC is growing, I imagine Hy-Vee has their eye on every major market's downtown that they have a presence in.

From the Des Moines Register:

"Hy-Vee is using this urban downtown store as a pilot that it hopes to replicate in other cities such as Lincoln, Omaha and Kansas City."


With the rumors of a streetcar line growing stronger, it would definitely be smart of them to try and locate this as close to Farnam St. as possible.

They should demolish the state building and put it there.

It would be right on farnam and near the Old Market.

If they moved the State Building offices to the new Civic site and opened that site for development, that would probably be the best location for a Hy-Vee with 3-4 floors of apartments on top, just like Des Moines' has.

A second good option could be the Library site with many more floors of apartments on top.

I have to believe that there would be a streetcar stop very close to either of those options.

If they are wanting to be closer to the Old Market, they could try for Howard St. between 13th-14th.

I definitely wouldn't want to see them on the Civic site, it's too far removed to be that walkable so I don't believe it'd be successful there, although I suppose with that site they could have a somewhat sizable surface lot tucked behind there and they could have most of their customers be car drivers.

Hy-Vee's downtown 'grocerant' a step in a new direction

Patt Johnson - Des Moines Register wrote:This store is a hybrid, melding traditional groceries, fresh meats, produce and bakery with a diverse selection of prepared foods ranging from dine-in meals to take-out to chopped up and ready-to-cook ingredients for preparing at home.

It's a formula that directly feeds into today's lifestyle, Edeker said.

The industry-coined phrase "grocerant," the conceptual combination of grocery store and restaurant, is becoming the buzzword and blueprint for the grocery store business. Shoppers' busy lifestyles and desire for prepared foods are driving changes in the traditional grocery store.

By the numbers

$10+ million project
35,695 square feet
370 employees (71 full-time)
Four entrances — two on Court Avenue, one on Fifth Avenue and one on the south side of the building
11 checkout lanes, including four self-check machines
18,000 total items
40 organic produce items
15 homegrown produce items
12-tap growler station
18 varieties of artisan bread
13 flavors of bagels
108 seats in the Market Grille
40 seats on the patio
28 varieties of doughnuts made fresh daily
22 types of sushi
1,526 wine bottles in the temperature-controlled, all-glass wine room

"80,000 workers and 9,000 residents" Omaha is no where near that, we're gonna have to wait quite a while.

MTO wrote:"80,000 workers and 9,000 residents" Omaha is no where near that, we're gonna have to wait quite a while.

Are we really that far from those numbers? I swear I remember reading that we had almost 10k residents dt. Have no clue on how many workers.

That's the beauty of Omaha. When others say it can't be done or it's not feasible, Omahans step up and take charge. Who needs a Hy-Vee downtown?

Selfishly I want something a little closer to 19th St so I can make a run during my lunch hour. Would be nice to have somewhere decently close to grab a quick lunch or some fresh fruit DT. I guess the struggle comes with do you place it closer to the OM with more permanent residents and get more business after 5 or try and put it more centralized in the CBD to cater to the daytime population and the lunch rush.

Because of the year round farmers market and Patricks I would personally want HY-Vee a little further north and west. Somewhere that can kill it for day time population and in a location convenient for people headed home from the office to grab a few things.

I'm thinking like that lot where Wells Fargo is closing their drive thru on 20th. You get a lot of apartment units close with Highline, Slate, The Wire, The Bank. Pretty close to City Hall and the Courthouse, not a lot of office to the west, but getting from FNB to there isn't too far of a walk. Then the added bonus of being on a westbound 1 way street to catch people on their way home from work.

That way they don't muscle out a local option closer to the Old Market and we get much more of DT served by a few different options.