High rise housing downtown

Downtown, Midtown, and all parts east of 72nd.

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NovakOmaha
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High rise housing downtown

Post by NovakOmaha »

I know I said I would be refraining from posting here...ok, I have a little bit. Anyway, something struck me the other day. Is there not one developer on the planet who looked at downtown Omaha & said, "Hey! There's got to be lots of demand for high rise downtown Omaha housing in a new building with all the class a amenities. I'll do it!"

I heard a while back that there was a proposal for a 32 story apartment or condo for Des Moines. Not sure if it's going anywhere but still.

Ok, vent over.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by skinzfan23 »

There has to be demand there to warrant such a building. The price per sq ft is going to be pretty expensive in a 32 story tower. Des Moines did have a proposal for a 32 story building, but the chances of that happening are probably next to nothing. They also had a 17 story residential tower on top of parking planned that has since turned into a 5 story parking garage.

I think it would be great if we could get at least one tall residential new construction tower but there has been a ton of apts come online downtown in the past few years. You would have to hope that there are still enough people willing and able to pay the high rents that these high-rise buildings will command.

There is a 12 story residential apt tower being constructed as part of the Shamrock development.
Last edited by skinzfan23 on Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by MadMartin8 »

All the shorter apartment complexes essentially dooms any hopes of one tall apartment tower. That said, I think I'd prefer the depth of construction we currently have all over downtown to having one giant apartment tower.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by Athomsfere »

There are these, although a little pricey:

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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by iamjacobm »

Keeping my hopes up for a 10th and Harney announcement. Think there is potential for something substantial.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by Ingersoll1978 »

I won't get too excited until construction begins...but we have news on the 32-story proposal with movie theater (Main Street Theaters):

Downtown high rise advances with $107 million price tag in Des Moines
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/ ... /83501816/

UrbanDSM.com project page: http://www.urbandsm.com/downtown/item/the-fifth
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by MTO »

If DSM actually gets that the debate is over, their skyline bests ours. Keep us updated on this one.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by NovakOmaha »

Ingersoll1978 wrote:I won't get too excited until construction begins...but we have news on the 32-story proposal with movie theater (Main Street Theaters):

Downtown high rise advances with $107 million price tag in Des Moines
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/ ... /83501816/

UrbanDSM.com project page: http://www.urbandsm.com/downtown/item/the-fifth
I read that this morning. It sure sounds promising.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by NovakOmaha »

My thing is this: When the Leahy Mall was built there should have been one or more apartment/condo towers built overlooking the mall. If it had more residential and retail the area around the mall could have had and now would have contributed to a 24 hour downtown. 1299 Harney, instead of looking industrial should have been a 32 story residential tower.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

For what it's worth, Highline is like 16 stories. What's the threshold for highrise?
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by HskrFanMike »

NovakOmaha wrote:I know I said I would be refraining from posting here...ok, I have a little bit. Anyway, something struck me the other day. Is there not one developer on the planet who looked at downtown Omaha & said, "Hey! There's got to be lots of demand for high rise downtown Omaha housing in a new building with all the class a amenities. I'll do it!"

I heard a while back that there was a proposal for a 32 story apartment or condo for Des Moines. Not sure if it's going anywhere but still.

Ok, vent over.
Umm...yeah. Here's a 60 page thread on this very topic:

http://www.eomahaforums.com/viewtopic.p ... &start=240

Which then led to another now-Minarded topic:

http://www.eomahaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15580

So there are two developers who thought the answer was "yes"...and found out the answer is actually "No."
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by Omaha Cowboy »

iamjacobm wrote:Keeping my hopes up for a 10th and Harney announcement. Think there is potential for something substantial.
Agreed. Outside of the Capitol District project which adds a 12 story residential building and the 14 story Marriott Hotel.. 10th and Harney looks like our only realistic hope (at this time at least) for another new high/mid rise building for downtown Omaha...

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Re: High rise housing downtown

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TitosBuritoBarn wrote:For what it's worth, Highline is like 16 stories. What's the threshold for highrise?
I'm no "expert" but my personal threshold is once you get to 20 stories, you have a high rise. 30 stories plus would qualify as a skyscraper.. 10-19 stories equals mid rise.. Below 10- low rise..

But these are my own definitions. Not anything out of a book etc :) ...

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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by Coyote »

For me it is:
1-3 stories = low rise
4-12 stories = mid rise
12-40 stories = high rise
40+ stories = skyscraper
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by MTO »

TitosBuritoBarn wrote:For what it's worth, Highline is like 16 stories. What's the threshold for highrise?
16-32 yeah pretty much the same thing.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by skinzfan23 »

Coyote wrote:For me it is:
1-3 stories = low rise
4-12 stories = mid rise
12-40 stories = high rise
40+ stories = skyscraper
I agree with all of these. When I looked up skyscraper, it stated that the building needs to be 40+ stories as you mentioned.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by MTO »

That's pretty stupid to count floors when they can very so much in height.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by Omaha Cowboy »

Another way to look at it is height instead of stories..

I know back in the day, when I was a regional editor over at Emporius (Skyscraper.com) the pretty much regarded opinion was a building of at least 400 ft, was considered "skyscraper status".. So you could measure it: buildings with 400 ft+ a Skyscraper, 250-399 feet a high rise, 150-249 mid rise and under 150 ft a low rise.. Or something along those lines...

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iamjacobm
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by iamjacobm »

There is really not hard definition. Pretty sure according to fire codes a highrise is over 75 ft b/c their ladders can't reach higher than that.

The IREM says 10+ is a highrise.

I am sure a dozen other sources say different things.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by Omaha Cowboy »

iamjacobm wrote:There is really not hard definition. Pretty sure according to fire codes a highrise is over 75 ft b/c their ladders can't reach higher than that.

The IREM says 10+ is a highrise.

I am sure a dozen other sources say different things.
:thumb: ...

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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by daveoma »

I'm super green with envy seeing this development. I would love to see 2-3 residential high rises more than 20 storeys in and around downtown Omaha. This tax abatement is an interesting idea. I would love it if Omaha had more incentives for high rise residential.

Omaha still has many things DSM does not: a really cool burgeoning district in Benson and the Old Market (which is much bigger and busier than the bar district in DSM).
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by Stargazer »

Don't forget Midtown Crossing, Aksarben Village... Blackstone district is taking off, promise of Capitol district, Dundee is fantastic as always... cool things happening in north downtown. Heck, South 24th is fun to visit.

I can live without the high rises... Omaha is doing just fine.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by EastCB »

Stargazer wrote:Don't forget Midtown Crossing, Aksarben Village... Blackstone district is taking off, promise of Capitol district, Dundee is fantastic as always... cool things happening in north downtown. Heck, South 24th is fun to visit.

I can live without the high rises... Omaha is doing just fine.
Yep. So many cool areas.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by Athomsfere »

Omaha Cowboy wrote:
TitosBuritoBarn wrote:For what it's worth, Highline is like 16 stories. What's the threshold for highrise?
I'm no "expert" but my personal threshold is once you get to 20 stories, you have a high rise. 30 stories plus would qualify as a skyscraper.. 10-19 stories equals mid rise.. Below 10- low rise..

But these are my own definitions. Not anything out of a book etc :) ...

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Well, as far as I am aware:

There are no official rules! Just generally accepted ranges and yours seem about as fair as any. The world's first skyscapers were about 10 stories...
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Re: High rise housing downtown

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Athomsfere wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:
TitosBuritoBarn wrote:For what it's worth, Highline is like 16 stories. What's the threshold for highrise?
I'm no "expert" but my personal threshold is once you get to 20 stories, you have a high rise. 30 stories plus would qualify as a skyscraper.. 10-19 stories equals mid rise.. Below 10- low rise..

But these are my own definitions. Not anything out of a book etc :) ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace
Well, as far as I am aware:

There are no official rules! Just generally accepted ranges and yours seem about as fair as any. The world's first skyscapers were about 10 stories...
:thumb: ...

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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by MTO »

Of course Omaha is snigger and better city with more to offer but that's all the more reason we have a worthy skyline. But DSM lacking such distributed urbanism puts all their eggs in one "downtown" basket.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

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The definition of what constitutes a "skyscraper" is mostly dependent on the location. In Omaha, the newest FNB tower and Woodmen still meet the criteria, but in NYC or Chicago they would just be called high-rise if that. If you created a world-wide definition, now you'd probably have to set the bar higher and call anything over 1000 ft. or 300m a skyscraper....even though the sky technically comes all the way down to the ground.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

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MTO wrote:Of course Omaha is snigger and better city with more to offer but that's all the more reason we have a worthy skyline. But DSM lacking such distributed urbanism puts all their eggs in one "downtown" basket.
Omaha would be better off with more eggs in its downtown basket, IMO. Can you imagine what it'd be like if more companies had located DT?
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by Garrett »

GetUrban wrote:The definition of what constitutes a "skyscraper" is mostly dependent on the location. In Omaha, the newest FNB tower and Woodmen still meet the criteria, but in NYC or Chicago they would just be called high-rise if that. If you created a world-wide definition, now you'd probably have to set the bar higher and call anything over 1000 ft. or 300m a skyscraper....even though the sky technically comes all the way down to the ground.
Generally, in urban circles, 1-5 floors is a low rise, 6-12 floors is a mid rise, 13-39 floors is a high rise, over that is a skyscraper, and over 300 m/1000 ft. are known as supertall skyscrapers, and over 600m are megatall.

As for high rise housing, if I've said it once I've said it 1,000 times here. We do not need it. High rise housing, and skyscrapers in general means nothing to the health or prosperity of a neighborhood, an active street life does. Yes it looks pretty and it's nice for the proverbial dick measuring contests, but it really isn't much more than that. How many people here on a Friday night think "Gee, I wanna go to One First National Center"? How many Chicagoans do you think go hang around the Sears Tower, John Hancock, or the residential towers like the Aqua? Or New Yorkers around the Empire State Building, or 432 Park Avenue? If you want a healthy urban area, you don't need, or necessarily even want skyscrapers. You want people infrastructure and an active street life.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

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I want both.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by iamjacobm »

Garrett wrote:
GetUrban wrote:The definition of what constitutes a "skyscraper" is mostly dependent on the location. In Omaha, the newest FNB tower and Woodmen still meet the criteria, but in NYC or Chicago they would just be called high-rise if that. If you created a world-wide definition, now you'd probably have to set the bar higher and call anything over 1000 ft. or 300m a skyscraper....even though the sky technically comes all the way down to the ground.
Generally, in urban circles, 1-5 floors is a low rise, 6-12 floors is a mid rise, 13-39 floors is a high rise, over that is a skyscraper, and over 300 m/1000 ft. are known as supertall skyscrapers, and over 600m are megatall.

As for high rise housing, if I've said it once I've said it 1,000 times here. We do not need it. High rise housing, and skyscrapers in general means nothing to the health or prosperity of a neighborhood, an active street life does. Yes it looks pretty and it's nice for the proverbial dick measuring contests, but it really isn't much more than that. How many people here on a Friday night think "Gee, I wanna go to One First National Center"? How many Chicagoans do you think go hang around the Sears Tower, John Hancock, or the residential towers like the Aqua? Or New Yorkers around the Empire State Building, or 432 Park Avenue? If you want a healthy urban area, you don't need, or necessarily even want skyscrapers. You want people infrastructure and an active street life.
Totally agree, as I have mentioned before as well.

You can get 7 of this Alvine sized projects on random lots DT for the price of the DSM project. Picture 7 of these projects going in NDT and imagine the impact it would have vs. one highrise. Yes they are cool to look at and look great in pictures and I would be excited to see one proposed. And I do think they can send a visual message of progress and civic pride, but our city could use a lot more 5 floor infill and rehab work.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by MTO »

Well if infill is the only thing that matters we have that covered.
And people don't sit around saying lets go to the Empire State Building but their not supposed to be destinations rather symbols. Symbols that can employ thousands or house thousands of people with the copious revenue occompanying those thousands. And some do have destinations The Hancock Center is ten of those ten floor squatt buildings you guys love stacked with a Cheesecake Factory under it.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

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iamjacobm wrote:
Garrett wrote:
GetUrban wrote:The definition of what constitutes a "skyscraper" is mostly dependent on the location. In Omaha, the newest FNB tower and Woodmen still meet the criteria, but in NYC or Chicago they would just be called high-rise if that. If you created a world-wide definition, now you'd probably have to set the bar higher and call anything over 1000 ft. or 300m a skyscraper....even though the sky technically comes all the way down to the ground.
Generally, in urban circles, 1-5 floors is a low rise, 6-12 floors is a mid rise, 13-39 floors is a high rise, over that is a skyscraper, and over 300 m/1000 ft. are known as supertall skyscrapers, and over 600m are megatall.

As for high rise housing, if I've said it once I've said it 1,000 times here. We do not need it. High rise housing, and skyscrapers in general means nothing to the health or prosperity of a neighborhood, an active street life does. Yes it looks pretty and it's nice for the proverbial dick measuring contests, but it really isn't much more than that. How many people here on a Friday night think "Gee, I wanna go to One First National Center"? How many Chicagoans do you think go hang around the Sears Tower, John Hancock, or the residential towers like the Aqua? Or New Yorkers around the Empire State Building, or 432 Park Avenue? If you want a healthy urban area, you don't need, or necessarily even want skyscrapers. You want people infrastructure and an active street life.
Totally agree, as I have mentioned before as well.

You can get 7 of this Alvine sized projects on random lots DT for the price of the DSM project. Picture 7 of these projects going in NDT and imagine the impact it would have vs. one highrise. Yes they are cool to look at and look great in pictures and I would be excited to see one proposed. And I do think they can send a visual message of progress and civic pride, but our city could use a lot more 5 floor infill and rehab work.
Here are the more precise, agreed-upon criteria for tall buildings....

http://www.ctbuh.org/HighRiseInfo/Talle ... fault.aspx
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Re: High rise housing downtown

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TitosBuritoBarn wrote:For what it's worth, Highline is like 16 stories. What's the threshold for highrise?
Lol. If you have to ask, it's probably not a high rise. ;)
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Re: High rise housing downtown

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Garrett wrote:
GetUrban wrote:The definition of what constitutes a "skyscraper" is mostly dependent on the location. In Omaha, the newest FNB tower and Woodmen still meet the criteria, but in NYC or Chicago they would just be called high-rise if that. If you created a world-wide definition, now you'd probably have to set the bar higher and call anything over 1000 ft. or 300m a skyscraper....even though the sky technically comes all the way down to the ground.
Generally, in urban circles, 1-5 floors is a low rise, 6-12 floors is a mid rise, 13-39 floors is a high rise, over that is a skyscraper, and over 300 m/1000 ft. are known as supertall skyscrapers, and over 600m are megatall.

As for high rise housing, if I've said it once I've said it 1,000 times here. We do not need it. High rise housing, and skyscrapers in general means nothing to the health or prosperity of a neighborhood, an active street life does. Yes it looks pretty and it's nice for the proverbial dick measuring contests, but it really isn't much more than that. How many people here on a Friday night think "Gee, I wanna go to One First National Center"? How many Chicagoans do you think go hang around the Sears Tower, John Hancock, or the residential towers like the Aqua? Or New Yorkers around the Empire State Building, or 432 Park Avenue? If you want a healthy urban area, you don't need, or necessarily even want skyscrapers. You want people infrastructure and an active street life.
they aren't mutually exclusive. I don't think it matters either way, as it all ends up in the hands of urban planning codes.

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Re: High rise housing downtown

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I've always thought an essential piece to make downtown living appealing is convenient access to groceries. I'm aware there is one grocer, but I've heard they are also expensive because it is a bit niche to be a grocer downtown in this era in Omaha. So which comes first? More people downtown to justify a bigger grocer? Or will someone come in and take a chance (HyVee, Family Fare, Bakers, Walmart Neighborhood Market) ? OR does it take something more drastic like the streetcar being built. I know easy accessible transportation will be vital to any downtown grocer.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

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Only you guys would overparse arbitrary definitions.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

Post by NEDodger »

Busguy2010 wrote:I've always thought an essential piece to make downtown living appealing is convenient access to groceries. I'm aware there is one grocer, but I've heard they are also expensive because it is a bit niche to be a grocer downtown in this era in Omaha. So which comes first? More people downtown to justify a bigger grocer? Or will someone come in and take a chance (HyVee, Family Fare, Bakers, Walmart Neighborhood Market) ? OR does it take something more drastic like the streetcar being built. I know easy accessible transportation will be vital to any downtown grocer.
More people downtown has to come first. The profit margins for a large grocer are tiny, so no one is going to invest a fortune to get a store off the ground in the hope that Omaha's downtown population grows. It has to be worth the investment to bother with this.
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Re: High rise housing downtown

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That's what I thought, but I also wonder what influences people to live downtown. I personally would love to live downtown because it would be cool, but beyond that, I can't justify it. Mainly because A) It is far from my friends and family, B) It is expensive if you want to live in a newly remodeled place, and C) it just doesn't seem practical for me in its current state. Downtown is too much of a place people just visit; either once a day, once a week, or once a year.

I would love to hear from some people who live downtown. What drove you there? What are the pros? Does it take an urban crusader to live there? Any sacrifices?
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Re: High rise housing downtown

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Busguy2010 wrote:That's what I thought, but I also wonder what influences people to live downtown. I personally would love to live downtown because it would be cool, but beyond that, I can't justify it. Mainly because A) It is far from my friends and family, B) It is expensive if you want to live in a newly remodeled place, and C) it just doesn't seem practical for me in its current state. Downtown is too much of a place people just visit; either once a day, once a week, or once a year.

I would love to hear from some people who live downtown. What drove you there? What are the pros? Does it take an urban crusader to live there? Any sacrifices?
I lived downtown until recently and it was a mixed bag. Where it wasn't great: It was Omaha hasn't developer enough yet.

Grocery getting: Actually the options are fine. Bakers on Leavenworth, Walmart at Aksarben, a dozen stops on my drive from work to home were possible. Once a week I'd go buy my fresh vegetables, chicken and fruit from Hyvee (the one on Saddlecreek / center). If I needed something in a pinch there are options like the SuperMercado (Council Bluffs walmart isn't far either).

What made me want to live downtown, always has been a dream of mine to live in a vibrant downtown like Chicago, NY, Tokyo, Seoul etc. The fact that I can walk outside and see civilization and architecture. I get a bit of a high from seeing the skyline. It was also great to be able to walk to the bar, uber around and quickly be anywhere in Omaha that matters (West O has nothing of interest). Gene Leahy Mall, MTC, Bob, the Zoo, TD Park, Creighton... Just grab my camera and go.

the cons to me: People I work with seem terrified of DT. Like it is a long drive into a foreign nation. I have even brough west O friends downtown and they are amazed at how clean and "big" the city is now. So I found myself working out west and meeting friends out west. That got old. The other thing was no decent mass transportation. When I was looking at The Highrise for example, garage parking would have been $100 month. Plus insurance and car payments that's ~$750 / month for a car. If Omaha could support it I would much rather sell my car, and take the rail every day. When I need to travel I would just rent a car for the weekend and still save money. (Surprisingly I am a car guy too).

If the streetcar line still ran (or a subway or something else accessible and cheapish) I would have stayed probably...
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