Nebraska Medicine

[ShawJ]

S33 has a valid point. Whats more important, a historic building, or the lives of current and future people?

Historic should have some quantifiable standards.   A building should have some singular role in history, or some solitary architectural feature in order to qualify as "Historical".    Just because its old,doesn't make it historical.

It's not even that old. It was constructed in 1946.

I'm all about preserving old buildings, but I can't say I disagree with what UNMC is doing in this circumstance.

[GetUrban]

S33 has a valid point. Whats more important, a historic building, or the lives of current and future people?

Historic should have some quantifiable standards.   A building should have some singular role in history, or some solitary architectural feature in order to qualify as "Historical".    Just because its old,doesn't make it historical.

It's not even that old. It was constructed in 1946.

I'm all about preserving old buildings, but I can't say I disagree with what UNMC is doing in this circumstance.

Sometimes the historical significance of a building also includes the surrounding context in which it was originally built. In this case, the historical context of the building(s) in question is long gone. The scale of campus and newer buildings now surrounding it make it look out of context.

As sad as it is to see "historic" or older buildings from earlier generations demolished, cities do grow, and needs change over time.

Omaha has unfortunately torn down way too many historically significant buildings, even whole districts...enough to make anybody who cares, including myself, furious......but in this case it's justified.

Plus, I doubt many architectural historians would consider this example of mid-20th century colonial revival campus architecture very significant....If they do, I'm sure they'll speak-up.

[Big E]

Whats more important, a historic building, or the lives of current and future people?

Which current people?

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Not very historically significant? We've thrown away so much of our history in America that virtually anything older than 1950 could be considered historically significant merely by virtue of how rare it is.

I just thought I'd put that out there again. We're just a tear-down, throw-away kind of society, and I guess part of the aggregate of that is our lack of societal identity.

[Garrett]

Whats more important, a historic building, or the lives of current and future people?

Which current people?

Those fighting cancer. I've attended far too many funerals of 10 year olds to care what must be demolished for this. If this building can help cure this monster and give a 5 yetar old his dream to be a father, then its worth it.

[Big E]

Oh yeah, them.  I thought you meant those other people.

[Linkin5]

Oh yeah, them.  I thought you meant those other people.

Lol.

[S33]

Forgive BigE, he's a bit insensitive. Besides popping viagra from his Donald Duck PEZ dispenser, he's in relatively good health.

[NovakOmaha]

Does a building have to be old to be historic?  I'm serious.  My own opinion is that the new Union Pacific building is historic in that it showed a real commitment on the part of the company to Omaha and specifically downtown Omaha.  They used unique techniques in the construction such as using natural light.  Now there are some who probably felt that the old UP headquarters was historic and should have been adaptively reused.  

Streets has a passion for a particular school of thought that posits that fixating on the automobile and the implication that unrestricted growth, or for that matter growth in and of itself sometimes, does harm to society.  That passion is admirable and my hope is that Streets can put that passion to use in a productive way.  

FOR MYSELF, I am less inclined to agree that somehow west Omaha will slide into decline and malls such as Westroads will crumble onto the scrap heap of the future.  There were those who predicted that Fairacres and Dundee were also needless additions to Omaha.  In its development the area that was to be Dundee was clear cut of all trees.  Crossroads Mall was built on the edge of Omaha and farms surrounded it.  The Brandeis Company saw a demand and capitalized on that demand.  Did it contribute to the downfall of downtown and the way of life that was shopping in those times?  Perhaps, but I'd suggest that those who lived through the depression and WWII and were now living a more prosperous life had a right to want a better life for themselves and their families.  The life they wanted was that one didn't have to ride the bus or streetcar downtown to shop and them haul their bags home that way.  Were they criminal for wanting such a thing?  

Having said the above do I believe that Omaha has always had a spotless record in its planning?  Not at all.  When the west expressway was planned it would have been built next to the front door of my elementary school, Western Hills School.  It was roundly defeated and scrapped.  For those who don't know, it would have started at the point where the North Freeway and I-480 exit near Dodge, about 30th.  That's why that intersection looks unfinished.  There is probably something about it at the library or the city-county building.  Streets should take a look at the history of it.

Bottom line...I refer to my original question.  What constitutes an historic building and what are the parameters to such a designation?  If every building that is old or historic were to be torn down and replaced with standard issue Omaha tan brick, what would that do to Omaha?  Other than make it a bit boring, I'd suggest that Omaha would continue to soldier on.  Jobbers Canyon is gone and downtown is growing with new retail, residential and office buildings.

[GetUrban]

Novak, you bring up some good points. First, the answer is "yes" to the question of whether new buildings can be historically significant. There are many examples of newer structures in Omaha which would fit that category, U.P., the Holland, FNB Tower, Former NNG, Landmark Center, Gallup, National Park Service HQ, Bob Kerrey Bridge, Joslyn Addition, to name a few of the larger scale ones. Somehow, people seem to have reached the conclusion that no good new architecture can ever be created again, so we shouldn't even try. Every generation should make a contribution.

Dundee and Fair Acres definitely weren't a mistake even though they contributed to Omaha stretching it's borders.

Also, I'm not so sure that Dundee didn't simply replace farm fields. I don't think it replaced a forest of trees. 1910-1930 photos in the booths at Goldberg's at 50th & Dodge attest to that. It kind of looked like the hilly area northwest of 72nd and Bennington Road does today.

[bigredmed]

The old childrens hospital building that will get torn down was built for polio control.   While it dealt with other diseases, it, hattie B, and MMI were all built to deal with polio.    To the extent that This complex's necessity should scare the bleep out oof the people who don't vaccinate their kids.   Beyond that, it simply costs too much to retrofit these buildings.

[BRoss]

Senators: Full NU funding unlikely

Keen budget watchers in the Nebraska Legislature gave good reviews Thursday to the University of Nebraska's request for $91 million for new construction projects.

But senators on the budget-writing Appropriations Committee also signaled that NU may have to settle for less because of the slowly recovering economy and competition with tax cuts and other spending proposals.

No one testified against the four proposals, though Heineman has labeled the spending requests as "very bad timing."
The governor has said that it would be fiscally imprudent to take $91 million from the state's cash reserves, as NU proposes. His higher priority is winning approval of his $130 million-a-year tax cut package.

Supporters of the projects rejected Heineman's assessment.

[guitarguy]

After living near nyc for almost 2 years now and seeing how fundamentally old buildings in Manhattan are I think its easy to want that for Omaha but you have to remember Omaha is growing now more than ever so space is just now becoming more of a commodity in certain areas so functionality is transforming many historic areas of Omaha because there is now a need for growth. Once function balances with the needs of the city its possible these newer buildings will become more permanent.

Point being enjoy the surge of growth Omaha is seeing because Omaha is transforming into a bigger deal that everyone dreams about .. but there has to be some casualties along the way when building a city.
-Adam

[StreetsOfOmaha]

[joeycheeto]

Ultimately there is a building that must be destroyed to make room for the new building because there has to be continuity between the new building and the hospital proper because patient rooms will be there and they must be transported for tests surgery etc. So if they do not knock down the old and crumbling swanson hall, then they will have to remove monroe-meyer and that would displace a much needed service for kids in Omaha. The swanson building hss fallen into disprepair and is expensive to heat/cool because of the lack of insulation, etc. Plus the location of the hospital and research building nest to the patients and md's that they are trying to collaborate with and across the stret from the critical mass of the two durham research towers will prove to be important for fostering collaboration that is required for the nest great breakthrough in cancer and medical research! So, the old childrens hospital (swanson) is a very small price to pay. Plus it is really not that historic and having walked through it daily, is really a dump!

[l-dude]

The original Children's Hospital/ Swanson is one of many of our earlier "tilt-up" buildings.  They were purpose built, like many of our current structures, to provide a service (nothing more), in this case, treatment space for child polio patients.  Polio is now cured, as long as people keep their (including their children's) "shots" up to date.  How appropriate that the former Children's (POLIO) Hospital should succumb to the polio of our time...Cancer treatment Hospital/clinic and research.  Deal with it!

[BRoss]

Cancer center would get $35M

The University of Nebraska would get $56 million of the $91 million state funding it requested to build a new cancer research center and other health-related facilities, under a budget recommendation from the Legislature's Appropriations Committee.

The lawmakers propose providing $35 million — instead of the $50 million NU requested — for the $110 million cancer research center at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.

[Fromaha]

Just heard on Lincoln radio that the Governor signed the $71 Million budget bill which includes some of the money for this project. They didn't say how the money would be divided up amongst this and two other university projects, but this is good news for this project.

[BRoss]

Gov. approves main budget bills

The state will provide $50 million for the University of Nebraska Medical Center cancer research tower, provided the university raises $60 million in private funds.

The University of Nebraska at Kearney's College of Nursing and Allied Health will get $15 million if the university raises $3 million.

The budget includes a first, $6 million payment on financing bonds for a new veterinary research laboratory at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, provided $5 million is raised privately.

[BRoss]

Douglas County pledges $5M to UNMC cancer center

http://www.omaha.com/article/20120911/L ... cer-center

The Douglas County Board agreed Tuesday to contribute $5 million to help fund a $323 million cancer center for the University of Nebraska Medical Center.
County Board member Mary Ann Borgeson submitted a resolution asking the board to provide $500,000 per year for 10 years for the project. The money will come from the county's inheritance tax revenue.

[iamjacobm]

I take it these are the latest designs.  They look like the one OWH had been using lately.  A little different from those original schematics.

[MadMartin8]

I take it these are the latest designs.  They look like the one OWH had been using lately.  A little different from those original schematics.

That design is nice and all, but man, no ground level stores or restaurants? HOW LAME. The city needs to demand better design standards from our research hospitals.

[guitarguy]

I really don't think there is a lack of retail/restaurants in the area. On Leavenworth/Farnam/Saddle Creek there is quite a few places to stop for a quick lunch. Really the area around the med center is one of the most vibrant areas in town.

-Adam

[iamjacobm]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20121002/N ... ackers-say

University of Nebraska Medical Center officials portrayed their plan as a catalyst to redevelop the Saddle Creek Road corridor into something like Aksarben Village or Midtown Crossing. Such plans could revive a concept to move Saddle Creek Road to accommodate a flood-control waterway.

Would love to see that last line happen.

Don Leuenberger, the medical center's vice chancellor for business and finance, said a study from a Chicago firm concluded that a new cancer center would spur $383 million in new private development on property adjacent to the university, generating some $63 million in new property taxes.

The medical center has been acquiring property near its campus, including old rail lines and bank property. UNMC is in talks with the owners of the former Omaha Steel mill property and is considering adjacent sites for potential hotel development.

Gives a little bit of weight behind the Wal-Mart rumor.

I know this is all sunshine pumping so UNMC can get their cancer center built.  I am biting, there is a lot of untapped potential in this area, if UNMC is finding it necessary to have a hotel along side the new cancer center I don't see any reason why it can't be an anchor for a larger infill development.

[iamjacobm]

Well, the new tax passed.

[Brad]

After 94 years, Armstrong Cleaners closing

http://www.omaha.com/article/20121024/M ... rs-closing

Armstrong Cleaners and Laundry, an Omaha mainstay for 94 years, closes its doors today.

The property at 3872 Leavenworth St. has been sold to the University of Nebraska Medical Center by its owner, the George E. Armstrong Trust. The property was home to the first of five Armstrong locations and the company's main plant.

[iamjacobm]

UNMC needs to back the |expletive| off of this property.  

http://www.omaha.com/article/20121114/N ... for-parcel

Parking soon will be in short supply on the University of Nebraska Medical Center campus, and university officials may use eminent domain to acquire nearby land.

Architect and developer Bob Perrin wants to build townhomes and condos — 69 units — on a square block south of Leavenworth Street. The land sits between 40th Street and the Field Club Trail and Mason and Marcy Streets. Perrin said he’s ready to start construction in the spring.

But UNMC officials need more parking spots in the short and long term, and have targeted the land for parking.

[bigredmed]

Lot 4 is the structure that is closing.  The top two levels were closed last spring due to a HUGE hole in the top deck (on the order of 8x4 feet) that could not be fixed reliably.  The bottom two levels were closed this week due to structural concerns for safe use of the parking structure.

We have 6000 people who work there during the day.  We have 500 people who now have no place to park.  

Let's come up with a better solution if you don't like the idea of this land being used in this manner.  Shouting expletives gets us no where.

Effective now,  UNMC can't park 10% of the people who work there due to gross safety issues with their Lot 4.  The people are the people who treat patients, run the labs, teach the students.  They can't telecomute, they can't shift schedules, and the mass transit system would at best solve the problem for maybe 10% of the affected employees.  So, solve for X.

[MTO]

Does UNMC have short term plans to resolve the parking issue? Are they at least incorporating parking in to new projects where they can?

[iamjacobm]

Build another garage.  Pay attention to your crumbling parking structures before they fall apart.  Rent out garage space at Crossroads and run a shuttle.

UNMC has no business getting the city to use imminent domain on a property that has a development lined up to improve the neighborhood with housing instead of adding a ton of traffic on residential roads for a parking lot.

Edit: And my biggest issue with it is that if the guy doesn't want to sell and basically give away all the leg work he has done on the property then he should be able to go forward with his project.  If UNMC came back and offered enough for him to sell then I wouldn't be nearly as against this.  But asking the city to take the property from him is wrong.

[bigredmed]

Does UNMC have short term plans to resolve the parking issue? Are they at least incorporating parking in to new projects where they can?

Yes, the proposed cancer center will have parking.    The parking issue for a medical center like UNMC is a chronic one that doesnt lend itself to shuttles to the crossroads or mass transit like we could have in Omaha because we have peope with variable start and stop times,  so you have to build more parkingg than you would in a standard shift structure.

[derog]

Build another garage.  Pay attention to your crumbling parking structures before they fall apart.  Rent out garage space at Crossroads and run a shuttle.

UNMC has no business getting the city to use eminent domain on a property that has a development lined up to improve the neighborhood with housing instead of adding a ton of traffic on residential roads for a parking lot.

Edit: And my biggest issue with it is that if the guy doesn't want to sell and basically give away all the leg work he has done on the property then he should be able to go forward with his project.  If UNMC came back and offered enough for him to sell then I wouldn't be nearly as against this.  But asking the city to take the property from him is wrong.

I agree with everything you said. I know Methodist rents parking in the Crossroads mall garage from UNO (and uses shuttles), maybe UNMC could do the same.

[bigredmed]

Build another garage.  Pay attention to your crumbling parking structures before they fall apart.  Rent out garage space at Crossroads and run a shuttle.

UNMC has no business getting the city to use eminent domain on a property that has a development lined up to improve the neighborhood with housing instead of adding a ton of traffic on residential roads for a parking lot.

Edit: And my biggest issue with it is that if the guy doesn't want to sell and basically give away all the leg work he has done on the property then he should be able to go forward with his project.  If UNMC came back and offered enough for him to sell then I wouldn't be nearly as against this.  But asking the city to take the property from him is wrong.

I agree with everything you said. I know Methodist rents parking in the Crossroads mall garage from UNO (and uses shuttles), maybe UNMC could do the same.

To be fair, Methodist rents parking from the Crossroads because they are rebuilding their physical plant and the parking garage was deemed unsafe till this construction is completed.   For the most part, they use their own place and then rent parking from nearby lots (like the Episcopal church on Pacific) for a few users during day shift.

[Choleric]

Bottom line, no point in trying to justify using eminent domain to thwart a honest businessman's attempt at urban renewal and redevoloping a neighborhood for a slab of parking. There is plenty of other property in the area to utilize, heck there is 15 acres of land for sale across Saddle Creek.

[bigredmed]

No fan of eminent domain here.  The iron works are being looked at, but for research buildings.

[MTO]

The greater good...

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I completely agree with Choleric and iamjacobm on this one.

On one hand, you have UNMC claiming to want to be a "full-fledged member of the Midtown community," but on the other you have UNMC really acting as a very destructive force in that community, buying out small businesses and threatening others to put up more and more surface parking.

[bigredmed]

I completely agree with Choleric and iamjacobm on this one.

On one hand, you have UNMC claiming to want to be a "full-fledged member of the Midtown community," but on the other you have UNMC really acting as a very destructive force in that community, buying out small businesses and threatening others to put up more and more surface parking.

Again, not a fan of eminent domain.  Even when my employer uses it.

Also not a fan of surface parking.  BUT considering that one of the five parking structures is going to have to come down eminently, and that UNMC has already used all the capacity in it's existing parking structures and lots to relocate the people who need to move, and that parking structures are shockingly expensive (>$13,000 per stall), may be surface parking is the best of a couple of crappy choices?

Can UNMC really afford to keep building parking structures when they have a useful life span of 25 years before the cost of upkeep exceeds the cost of replacement?  Can we expect people to move to walkable distances from UNMC, given that we can't realistically count on mass transit in Omaha west of 90th street?   What about those employees (like me) that work at different hospitals during the day?  How do we handle this?

I am not saying that eminent domain is a good thing (frankly, I think that if it is used for ANYTHING, even schools and libraries, that doesn't have to do with a pressing public safety exposure, we are using it wrong.)  

This may be one of those big boy pants times.  Where we don't get to choose between ice cream and broccoli, but rather have to chose between brussel sprouts and broccoli.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

The big white elephant in the room is that these supposed "parking needs" have such a strangle hold on everything we do. The Med Center could be such a positive force in the area to promote transportation alternatives, many of which are associated with positive public health movements (irony...). But, instead, they continue right on doing things the way they have for the last 6 or 7 decades.

As for the eminent domain issue, I actually can't even believe it has entered the fray. To use eminent domain there has to be a valid public purpose. I don't quite see how the Med Centers "parking needs" quite fit into that model, even if they are a quasi-public entity.

[iamjacobm]

New plans for UNMC cancer center show parking garage to stay

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130215/L ... ge-to-stay

When officials first announced plans to build a cancer center on the west end of the University of Nebraska Medical Center campus, they said the parking structure near the Durham Outpatient Center would be razed to make way for the project. At the time, they said an underground parking garage would replace the 767 lost parking spots.  But plans have evolved since January 2012, and the garage will remain. Among the other changes:
» Instead of one of the new buildings stretching south from Dewey Avenue to Emile Street, it now will stop short of the walkway that cuts between the parking structure and Swanson Hall.
» The building housing the cancer center's inpatient rooms will run farther east and connect to the Hixson-Lied Center.
Construction on the cancer center, a joint project of UNMC and its hospital partner, the Nebraska Medical Center, is expected to begin in late summer. It's set to be completed in 2016.

Another rendering as well.  It looks a bit like TD Ameritrade's tower.