Omaha Forums

Lots of great ideas already! I like the idea of live music and art shows.. also like the idea of making it more obvious whats going on DT. Brad you're probably right about people not feeling safe.. seems any area of town deemed 'unsafe' dies rapidly. Was at the Sorenson Park area and its still mostly a ghost town.. when you have shootings as soon as it opens theres not much hope.

Do they have a summertime series here? Can't recall them ever sponsoring major events in the mall..

guitarguy wrote:Lots of great ideas already! I like the idea of live music and art shows.. also like the idea of making it more obvious whats going on DT.  Brad you're probably right about people not feeling safe.. seems any area of town deemed 'unsafe' dies rapidly. Was at the Sorenson Park area and its still mostly a ghost town.. when you have shootings as soon as it.

Where are you referring to and what shootings?

When the movie theater at Sorenson Park first opened there was a shooting I'm pretty sure?

guitarguy wrote:When the movie theater at Sorenson Park first opened there was a shooting I'm pretty sure?

Ok and you are calling it a ghost town because of that? I don't think that is what is keeping people away. Fast food row has sprung up over the last couple of years.

Well when it first opens and never gets any good buzz about it I'm sure that just might have something to do with it.

OK... so... here is what I think needs to happen.

As a whole, the whole sunken park thing is not gonna work. Psychologically, people aren't attracted to that kind of thing. All of the park west of the slides should be brought back up to street level. On the very western edge the plaza area should be expanded and the fountain area redone. Here, there should be movable seating along with tables and planters. The planters should also be at an appropriate scale so that people can sit on them, like the ones in the Old Market. The fountain in this area should be redone, and people should be allowed to wade in it and interact with it. In this section there should be a combination food carts and trucks, effectively creating a sort of lunch time center during the warmer months.

The middle section of the park between the plaza and the the slides should also be risen up and have more paths and quieter sitting areas, along with the new stream originating from the fountain in the plaza. Around the 11th Street arch there should be another, smaller plaza kinda like the one on the western end, with the same kind of seating and tables along with food trucks and carts. On the east end, there should be a waterfall near the slides, right next to the new 11th Street Plaza, preserving what is arguably the most successful part of the park. And on the bottom floor of the building on the northwest side of 10th and Farnam there should be a cafe with outdoor seating next to the stream.

On the whole, this would probably cost a decent amount of money to pull off, but it would make a much more usable park. And most of the work done would just be filling in with dirt anyway... I dunno. Thoughts?

I 100% disagree! I think the sunkin aspect is it's best feature! It's an oasis in the middle of downtown.

Just because it's heavily vandalized in inproperly maintained doesn't mean it's a failure, just means the city doesn't put in to it what needs to be put in to it.

The park is always busy and gets way more use than most parks in town.

The park is now 30+ years old and just needs som TLC.

I do agree more plaza areas would be nice. Picnic tables would be a nice addition too.

I am also still pushing for the 11th street a pedestrian Bridge.

I do think the sunken feature is the biggest problem. I think it' kills activity in the park at night. Just think if it were street level there would be more foot traffic after dark. Also too bad it was not built wide enough for small boats. Probably not feasible here but I really like the waterways in downtown OKC.

Greg

Brush Creek in KC is also sunken (they did not have a choice due to it being for flood control) and I think it suffers some of the same ills at the Leahy Mall in Omaha.

Greg

Garrett wrote:Thoughts?

Sounds like we took the same class on park planning.

While I think the psychological aspect of parks being unattractive if not on street level is generally true, I'm not sure it applies to all types of parks. Sunken parks are unattractive because people feel a sense of being trapped. That's the reason why, back when they first began rehabilitating GLM, they tore down the perimeter wall. Conversely, parks above street level are unattractive because humans are lazy and don't care to climb stairs or hills. But I believe parks that are more of a landmark to the city are an exception. Millennium Park here in Chicago for example is, depending on which street you enter from, above, below, and at street level. Yet it is the most popular park in the City. GLM is also a sort of landmark to the city and I believe it can afford it's placement below street level without compromising usage.

TitosBuritoBarn wrote:

Garrett wrote:Thoughts?

Sounds like we took the same class on park planning.

While I think the psychological aspect of parks being unattractive if not on street level is generally true, I'm not sure it applies to all types of parks. Sunken parks are unattractive because people feel a sense of being trapped. That's the reason why, back when they first began rehabilitating GLM, they tore down the perimeter wall. Conversely, parks above street level are unattractive because humans are lazy and don't care to climb stairs or hills. But I believe parks that are more of a landmark to the city are an exception. Millennium Park here in Chicago for example is, depending on which street you enter from, above, below, and at street level. Yet it is the most popular park in the City. GLM is also a sort of landmark to the city and I believe it can afford it's placement below street level without compromising usage.

No matter where you go I don't think you can escape Whyte, especially with park design.

Largely I would say Millenium Park can attract people because of all of the attractions it has. People are invited to interact with Cloud Gate, and the Crown Fountain, just like how in Omaha, the most successful part is the slides. Plus it has a certain flexibility the GLM lacks, from the Pritzker Pavilion which can be used for concerts and performances, or even just picnics to the ice skating rink during the winter. And even though there is only one, expensive as heck restaurant, there is a restaurant. Millenium Park also has something that GLM almost entirely lacks: flat space! If I wanted to pack up a basket and have a picnic in the park, it wouldn't be too practical. And on top of that, beyond the slides, what does GLM have to interact with? Funky benches?

Perhaps it wouldn't have to sacrifice the sunken concept entirely, however, there definitely are certain parts that could easily reworked, like the western edge plaza that I discussed.

The biggest problems with the West end is all the "interesting people" that hang out there. Sit in the Tap-house, have a beer, and watch the Tweakers. Also feeding the homeless on the NW corner doesn't help either.

I would like to see them add a plaza or something where this weird hill is. Nobody goes up there and its just a circle of nothing. If you cut the hill down, you can get a decent size plaza there.

Brad wrote:Nobody goes up there and its just a circle of nothing.

Hey! I've gone up there before! I actually liked it. But I don't disagree with your idea.

Yeah, that's the only place in the mall with a bench you can sleep on!

One of the original plans called for a much lower depth of the park and more retail and restaurant as well as possible boats. Take a look....

I wish it would have ended up like that. That looks fantastic.

I love all the ideas flowing here! I have posted photos of Klyde Warren Park before, but that park is an exact example of what I would like to see on the flat space by 14th and Douglas.

Imagine the entire side of the park for a block dedicated to food trucks:


And then having movable attractive tables and chairs:



Parks now a days need to have uses, especially in cities without massive population densities. GLM would probably be well used if DTO was twice as dense, but until then we need to be active about drawing people into the space.

NovakOmaha wrote:One of the original plans called for a much lower depth of the park and more retail and restaurant as well as possible boats.  Take a look....

We could have had that? Well, that's....... *sigh*. "Missed opportunities" the city's motto.

iamjacobm wrote:I love all the ideas flowing here!  I have posted photos of Klyde Warren Park before, but that park is an exact example of what I would like to see on the flat space by 14th and Douglas.

Imagine the entire side of the park for a block dedicated to food trucks:


And then having movable attractive tables and chairs:



Parks now a days need to have uses, especially in cities without massive population densities.  GLM would probably be well used if DTO was twice as dense, but until then we need to be active about drawing people into the space.

That sounds wonderful but how would we keep those smelly hippies out?

MTO wrote:That sounds wonderful but how would we keep those smelly hippies out?

Hippies in Dallas, you need to check your facts.

And to give credit where credit is due the park was mighty busy today, the slides were slam packed.

The "dumping bucket" fountain was fixed today. I believe they said it needed a new pump.

Brad wrote:The "dumping  bucket" fountain was fixed today.  I believe they said it needed a new pump.

Finally. Why do things always fall apart at h same time, I know the HoA fountain was different... Is the water fall at the west end flowing yet?

Coyote wrote:Is the water fall at the west end flowing yet?

One of them works, but I am not sure its on yet. I believe he said the other needed a new pump as well. They are going to fix it.

HofA is 20+ years old
GLM is 30+ years old

Interesting fact, he said the electrical bill for all the lights and fountains in both the HofA and the GLM parks is over a million dollars a year!

The warer is noticeably higher today. It's up on the bricks where it shod be. I actually think it could be just a smidge higher. Hope the turn on the water features soon.

Brad wrote:The warer is noticeably higher today.  It's up on the bricks where it shod be.  I actually think it could be just a smidge higher.  Hope the turn on the water features soon.

The water level is even higher today (as expected after all the rain) It is over the bricks and appears to be over maybe an 1" of the mulch on the island as well.

skinzfan23 wrote:

Brad wrote:The warer is noticeably higher today.  It's up on the bricks where it shod be.  I actually think it could be just a smidge higher.  Hope the turn on the water features soon.

The water level is even higher today (as expected after all the rain)  It is over the bricks and appears to be over maybe an 1" of the mulch on the island as well.

I was going to mention this too. Really high, glad you can't see below the limestone bricks now. Does the city manually drain this usually or just let it naturally drain?

iamjacobm wrote:

skinzfan23 wrote:

Brad wrote:The warer is noticeably higher today.  It's up on the bricks where it shod be.  I actually think it could be just a smidge higher.  Hope the turn on the water features soon.

The water level is even higher today (as expected after all the rain)  It is over the bricks and appears to be over maybe an 1" of the mulch on the island as well.

I was going to mention this too.  Really high, glad you can't see below the limestone bricks now.  Does the city manually drain this usually or just let it naturally drain?

If it gets too high, it will flow over the "Dam" on the east end.

Just drove by and the water looks so much better when it's full!

BVH posted a cool shot of what was there before GLM.

Cool, look a the building where the Holland is now. Is that what Swanson/Campbell's looks like before they coated it in Pink Gravel in the 80's?

By the way, they added a little die to the water in the GLM late last week.

They have been rehabbing the large red sculpture just east of 10th street this past week.

iamjacobm wrote:BVH posted a cool shot of what was there before GLM.

I just saw this. For all the |expletive| the city gets for doing things wrong, they definitely made the right decision in this case.

MadMartin8 wrote:

NovakOmaha wrote:One of the original plans called for a much lower depth of the park and more retail and restaurant as well as possible boats.  Take a look....

We could have had that?  Well, that's....... *sigh*.  "Missed opportunities" the city's motto.

I like it, but I see issues with it. I think with winter, those stores in located there would go out of business and close. Once all the businesses left, the bums move in. It would become a desolate place, possibly dark due to its lower elevation below the road, and even possibly dangerous.

I think the retail on the canal would have struggled as well. Kind of reminds of the riverwalk/canal area that was built in Las Colinas part of Irving/Dallas. Looked like it had lots of potential but failed ultimately.

I do wish GLM had been built to be more boat or gondola friendly. I'm also one that thinks long term it would have been better on street level.

Greg

When it was first built I asked one of the planners at the grand opening, "Why is it lower than street level? Doesn't that make it seem kind of isolated?" He answered that it would shield it from street level noise and be more tranquil. It does give it more square footage and a more interesting look but I wonder what kind of place it would be if it was at street level.

NovakOmaha wrote:I wonder what kind of place it would be if it was at street level.

Boring...

What about street level makes it boring? You'd have more foot traffic. When they were doing the planning for the recent remodel/fix up, they did get feed back that some people will not enter it because it's sunk below and does not have good visibility.

Greg

I like the oasis feel of it sunkin. If it was street level, it would be like every other park in town. I still don't where they found all these people that want to raise it up, I never hear anyone say that other than a few people on this forum.

It's not like nobody uses this park, its busy all the time. Probably has more traffic than any other park in town.

Also, how is it not boat friendly? You could get in a boat or gondola and go from one end to the other? If it was raised up, you could never do that. It it was raised up, you would need to stop at crosswalks instead of just passing under the street like you do now.

After seeing OKC's at street level I think that is much preferred for me compared to GLM and Brush Creek in KC.

For people preferring in to street level I remember reading it in the OWH when the redo was first being discussed. Sounds that was one of the major drawbacks to the GLM. People did not feel safe. Since bringing it to street level was cost prohibitive they did try to increase visibility so people once inside did not feel so isolated. I do know from personal experience that once the sun goes down it does not seem to be in use as much as it did when I first started going to GLM in the 80's.

Greg

People would start to feel a lot safer if the would fix all the broken lights!