I was reading "The Reader" today and noticed an article about MAT completley rerouting their transit routes. As I read I noticed this in a paragraph
The long-term study also dealt a deathblow to train plans. After years of deliberation and proposals for a 10th Street trolley operating between North Omaha, downtown and Rosenblatt Stadium, MAT killed the idea as a public project. Residential densities along proposed trolley routes were simply not high enough to justify spending taxpayer dollars on trains and tracks.
Now, I do agree with the rerouting the buses, but to get ride of the trolley would be a poor decision based on future plans. Sure there might not be enough residents downtown at the moment, but with the River Front Place, SoMa, and other residential buildings this will add quite a few residents in later years. Besides, the trolley (in my eyes) wouldn't be used soley as transportation, but as a ride through the city to numerous attractions in the downtown area. More people would come downtown if this trolley was built because once you're down here you would have access to major attractions. People visiting for the College World Series would also benefit from this. They could stay downtown and take the trolley to the game. This would increase hotel business and possibly spark other hotels to come to Omaha and/or expand the current ones. Does anyone else think this could come in handy during the College World Series
You'll find nothing but light rail advocates on this forum.
As for MAT... unfortunately, they have long shown no interest in rail transit of any kind.
There is however... a private individual by the name of Steve Anderson (see eOmaha.com's 10th Street trolley project page ) who is working very hard to see a phased 10th Street trolley line introduced.
Forum member 'Zephyr' is our inside source on any new developments relating to this project.
Thanks Jeff, I didn't know that. I've only been coming to these forums for the last 2-3 weeks now. You guys really know your stuff. Anyway, I guess Steve understands the importance of this project as much as I do. Good luck to you Zephyr:)
Thanks for mentioning the article, avanzee, and welcome to the forum. Now I know Simon is just as bad as Ruegg was when it comes to forward thinking. That reaffirms my belief that MAT needs a complete overhaul. Ah, hope springs eternal...
Well. I don't think any one of us actually thought for a second that Omaha would see any form of rail transit persued by MAT.
MAT is a joke. The only reason they fed the people of Omaha lies and BS feasibility studies was to delay the Omaha citizens' realization that their city has an anti-transit transit authority.
It's very simple. For a city the size of Omaha, if we had a transit authority that cared about providing viable transit for the city, a plan for light rail would already be in place. I understand that there are funding constraints, but to not even have a PLAN for it in the future, pending funding, is absurd.
Eric, how soon are you going to come back to Omaha so we can start your light rail development firm?!!!
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
Aaron, I couldn't agree with you more. I also think it's ridicouls how MAT holds these "public meetings" so people can give comments on their plans, as if MAT expects to change their plans any. I will tell you coming from someone who works for one of their consultants, they have had some pretty hair-brained proposals that are near impossible to work with. If downtown is so lacking in population and density, then how come it can support 3 circulator bus routes? Give me a break.
I wish I could get back sooner, but it won't be until 2 years at the least. However, it may be a bit longer, as I might get some more experience in Denver or in another city before coming back to Omaha and giving MAT the smack down.
I can't believe MAT would be so ignorrant as to not see the beauty of a light rail system. The last I checked it was $1+ to ride the bus and it might have went up. Most people don't use the bus. It is slow and runs late. Most people in Omaha have cars so the bus is not even considered. I wonder how much GAS is wasted on these buses driving around empty or even half full. I used to ride the bus for a year for school and when we didn't have a car. Most of the popular stop and destinations from the North transit center were to Crossroads and DT/ Central High School. If they could get rid of buses entirley and replace it with a light rail system it would save on gas, run on schedule better, and potentially boost ridership for the novelty of the ride.
St. Louis has a light rail system that doesn't quite run all over but has trains between DT destinations and into inner suburbs. I tink Omaha could support a system like this.
Hey Zephyr... in the past you've talked of Dodge being unfeasible, or prohibitively expensive to run a rail line... because of the need for more space... but I'm wondering why you couldn't just run it among the traffic... as I see here in Toronto (or maybe I just misinterpreted what you were saying at the time)...
Jeff, that's a good point, and it probably could be done on Dodge Street. However, with light rail on Dodge, sharing the lanes with auto traffic, you would not get the full advantage of the technology. You would basically be degrading what could be rapid rail service to slow bus service. I do however think that a streetcar line paralleling Dodge from Downtown to Midtown on Farnam and Harney would be worthwile, which would serve circulator services and spur development; and you would not have as many traffic problems along that alignmnent. I've never heard of a light rail system running that long of a distance in mixed traffic - they usually have a dedicated right of way for most, if not all, of the segment.
I think as far as Dodge street is concerned, the only opportunity to do it right is if the Destination Midtown ideas are put into play. When Dodge would be rebuild to include the median and all the landscaping, THAT is the time to put in a little extra room for a light rail line. Otherwise the options would remain an in-traffic street car like Jeff posted, or elevated rail. $.02
Rail transit is absolutely not feasible on Dodge, unless some one forks up mucho-cash to build an elevated or underground system. There's simply not enough room on Dodge for all the traffic lanes that are needed, and a dedicated lane for light rail.
I agree with Eric, and what also happens to be the recommendations of the Destination Midtown study, that Farnam and Harney are absolutely the best corridors to use for an east-west system linking downtown and midtown, and in the future, UNO and Aksarben.
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
The sad thing is... Dodge from the river to Elkhorn... must literally account for more than half off all of Omaha's office space/retail/educational institutions. There is no better argument for mass transit than along this corridor. You wouldn't even need a circulator bus... you'd park out west... and take the light rail practically to your office/shopping/school destinations doorstep.
Jeff, I totally agree. But look at the city's priorities....
West Dodge Expressway anyone???????
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
Couldn't they put a train in that middle lane on Dodge? IMO they should just make Dodge St. an expressqay/freeway. It goes right into DT and runs all the way to far west O.
I agree with the recommendation of the Destination Midtown study by HDR, that Dodge Street needs to become a landscaped "Urban Boulevard", comparable to the Champs-Elysees in Paris.
Dodge needs to serve automobile traffic efficiently, as well as to be aesthetically pleasing and pedestrian friendly.
An expressway or freeway is out of the question for Dodge Street as it traverses some of Omaha's best urban neighborhoods.
As a society, we are past the "age of expressways".
As Jonathan Barnett, an Urban Design principal out of Philadelphia who was the main consultant on both Destination Midtown and Omaha By Design, once said at a public meeting for Omaha By Design:
In an age where most cities are tearing down the freeways that caused the death of their center cities, Omaha may become an interesting artifact of city development, having built "the last freeway" (referring to West Dodge).
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
Good point, Aaron. I remember that speech by Barnett and found it very intgeresting. There are several cities that have recently torn down their elevated freeways that once split downtowns, such as Boston, Portland, and San Francisco.
Making Dodge St an expressway or freeway all the way downtown would be the biggest mistake Omaha could make. Omaha already has some of the shortest commute times in the country. Could you imagine the front lawns of Mutual of Omaha or UNO being a freeway? All that would do is create more sprawl out west and diminish the older neighborhoods and downtown.
I agree that there is a deffinite need for a new "outer ring" making it easier for suburbanites to access I-80 and head downtown, but a new freeway right down the city's backbone into downtown is out of the question.
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
