Official: Patrick's Market (1416 Howard)

[the1wags]

None other than Jeff Beals has posted on the GrowOmaha forum rumors section that he's heard it from 2 sources that a grocer "west of the Old Market" could be in the works.

Where are possible sites/and or buildings for this. I first thought of 1412 Howard across from the police station but that building is just shy of 9000ft2. A standard Fareway is 25k ft2 and those are smaller than most "supersized" grocers like HyVee, etc.

Discuss.

[almighty_tuna]

Trader Joe's has been thrown around a bit as a business looking to get into downtown Omaha.  This may very well be a continuance of that.  Trader Joe's are 10-15,000sqft, so this wouldn't really be out of the question; just a smaller TJ's.

[Gerald W. Kopiasz]

How about Kraft DC building on 16th?  It is a fairly good sized, multi-level structure that has enough room to the east for parking...

Gerald

[the1wags]

That could be a possibility Gerald.  Meeks Motor Car Co building is listed for sale on the Grubb Ellis website. 16,880 ft2 floor plates, so good space to work with.

Meek's Motor Car Co. Building
801 South 16th Street
Omaha, NE 68102

[StreetsOfOmaha]

When I hear it will be west of the Old Market, I'm thinking JLofts, or in that vicinity.  I don't know how much space some of the retail bays are in JLofts.

Trader Joe's would be great, or something around that basic size (10-15,000 sf).  That area doesn't need a super walmart, just a nice grocery store.

[DTO Luv]

As a Downtowner too I don't see why people haven't already taken advantage of the grocers already Downtown. Just within a few blocks of where I live there are 5 small grocers with enough items between them that I can get what I need. Plus there is a full service grocer just across 480 in Midtown. Another one would be nice but I think people should be more aware of what's out there.

Off the top of my head here is a short list of places Downtown that sell groceries and other necessities.

-International Foods: 25th and Farnam
-All Nations: 24th and Leavenworth
-Four Aces: 24th and Leavenworth
-East Africa Grocery: 26th and Leavenworth
-Cubby's: 13th and Jackson
-Downtown Foodmart: 16th and Harney
-Farrells: 9th and Dodge
-(Can't recall the name): 19th and St. Mary's Ave.
-Food Bonanza: Park Ave & Leavenworth (Midtown)
-Although not a full fledged grocer, the Dollar General has a small enough selection of some food and has other everyday things (cleaning supplies, toiletries)

That's already 9 grocers, some a few more specialltty than others, but it's still a pretty comprehensive list. I my self have shopped at all but one of those places and can always find everything I want. I don't think any new grocer DT would be like what people would expect out of a Baker's or any other big store. A new store would be much smaller than a tradional suburban store.

I think the best we could hope for in a DT grocery store is a Wholner's type place. They are considered to be a grocery store but still have a smaller selection and higher prices than the Baker's down the street.

So when people think "Downtown Grocery store" what comes to mind? Are you thinking a Baker's/Hyvee type store with a big parking lot being the sole grocery store DT? Or are you thinking more of a Wholner's type store with more stores spread around DT? Something else? I'd be interested to hear what you all think.

[Big E]

I'm thinking Wohlner's-esque, only larger.  Maybe 1/4 the size of a suburban store.  Maybe even multi-level to conserve space.  It would certainly be catering to the swing by on foot to get what you need for the next two days crowd, rather than the next two weeks in your SUV crowd.

I do think it would be great to have it set up like a year-round farmer's market, with some stalls that vendors could rent for some specialty items.

-Big E

[the1wags]

Most of those existing places downtown I would not call a grocery store. I mean, you can go into most any convenience store and buy milk, eggs, butter, bread, ice cream, and so on but they are not a grocery store. You'll pay through the nose about as bad as a grocery store at most of those places too. I guess with the no car lifestyle one has to make do with what is available to the area. But until a real grocer comes DT, I don't mind driving a few minutes to get my grub.

I'm not thinking (nor would I want) a 85,000 square foot box with 10 acres of parking will be built downtown, but something the size of a Fareway (25,000ft2) could be done.

[DTO Luv]

Have you even been to most of the places I've listed? I'm guessing you haven't but they are what you'd expect to find going grocery shopping in Chicago, NYC, and other eastern cities. Some do lean more to the convenience side but I hate to see people discount what is already down here. I'm trying to shed some light on things that people wouldn't have other wise known about. There are some suburban leaning people who wouldn't consider these 'real' grocery stores but they do provide a service that I don't see Baker's, Hyvee, Bag & Save, or any other big name grocer in town doing. I'd rather give my money to the people who are trying to make it work.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

D'shawn, I guess I don't really understand what you're trying to say.  None of those places are a secret known only to you, nor are they grocery stores (save Food Bonanza, which is in Midtown); they're "corner market" type places, glorified convenience/liquor stores.  I'm not saying that's bad, what I'm saying is they are what they are.  They don't come anywhere close to providing the kinds of products and services that a grocery store does; bakery, deli, meets, cheeses, etc.  They're pop-in-pop-out places, and that's fine, and that works for a lot of people (myself included).  And also, LET'S FACE IT, none of those places are what you'd call a "classy establishment." Most of them are sketchy as h*ll.  Many downtown residents aren't comfortable going to places like that, or just choose not to.

Anyway, I think you're just trying to say, "look what we already have", but it's coming out like, "we don't need a grocer downtown," which I don't think is what you mean (or is it?).

Anyway, I think we're talking about something the size of a Wholners if not a little bigger.  Now, whether it's Trader Joe's, Bakers, Hy-Vee, Fareway...whatever...doesn't really matter "that much".  What matters is that downtown is underserved by grocers, and that whoever builds does it right, ie. urban, potentially multiple level and NO PARKING LOTS.

[DTO Luv]

|expletive|. I had this big long response typed out and the |expletive| mouse fell of the desk and closed the window.

I'll retype it up later but I answered some of your questions Aaron.

[icejammer]

So when people think "Downtown Grocery store" what comes to mind? Are you thinking a Baker's/Hyvee type store with a big parking lot being the sole grocery store DT? Or are you thinking more of a Wholner's type store with more stores spread around DT? Something else? I'd be interested to hear what you all think.

I think something along the lines of a Fareway (@25000 sq. ft.) is going to be the upper end, size-wise, of what you might expect to see downtown, but I don't foresee that in the near future.  Personally, I would envision something a little more specialty perhaps, someone carrying strictly organic produce, along with specialty bakery items, cut-to-order meat items, more of what I would call a "boutique" grocery store, somewhere closer to 15000 sq. ft.  I think something on those lines would be very popular downtown.

[Brad]

I don't care what they sell.... An old run down gas station with the specials and name spray painted on the side of the building is not a grocery store.

[HskrFanMike]

A downtown Fareway (yes, I realize this was used as an example only) would be a huge get for downtown Omaha.  Great meat department and the prices are very reasonable.  It would also cater to people who work downtown, unlike a Baker's/Hy Vee would.  Trader Joes would be intriguing, though it would cater to a much more limited audience.  Some folks would love it, others would just drive elsewhere like they always do.

[Ben]

Another interesting spot (although it doesn't fit Jeff Bealls' west of the OM criteria) is the ground level space in 1002 Dodge.  Yes, its right across the street from Farrell's, which is another upscale deli/mart, but at 14,000 sqft would be significantly larger - although still on the small side for a full grocery store.  There's dock access out back for trucks, and parking lots nearby for the Garden Inn and just west of 11th and Dodge....  I've always thought this would be an ideal spot for a Trader Joe's type market.

[DTO Luv]

I think the most we'll get out of any new grocery store DT will be like this.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I think the most we'll get out of any new grocery store DT will be like this.

Really?  That's a lot less than what I would expect.

[DTO Luv]

That one above is in Seattle. Places like that are the norm for urban areas and DTs. Not big stores at all.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I know.  It just seems a little smaller than what I think is in the works.  I would love to have something like that, though.

[RFO]

I believe there will be an announcement soon about an Independent Grocer moving in to 1416 Howard Street, across from the police station.  I assume the parking lot on the corner of 15th and Howard adjacent to the building is a part of the deal.  The building looks to be around 7500 sq. ft. in size.  The grocer is out of Blair Nebraska.  It is my understanding that this grocer was/is in talks with the people at Midtown crossing also.  Not sure if he would do both.

[Brad]

The building looks to be around 7500 sq. ft. in size.

I hope the 7500 SQ FT is Wrong!

Cubby's on 13th street is 17,500
and by compairson, Whole Foods Regency is 58,000

[StreetsOfOmaha]

That square footage for Cubby's seems inflated.  Where did you get it?

[RFO]

According to the Douglas County Treasurer's Office the actual square footage of 1416 Howard St is 8,712. And the parking lot on the corner of 15th and Howard IS part of the parcel.  Although I'm pretty confident of the information that I DO have, the amount of info I have is limited.

[Brad]

That square footage for Cubby's seems inflated.  Where did you get it?

The Douglas county assessors website.

[RFO]

Ironically Cubby's is almost the identical same size as the 1416 Howard St. building even the same dimensions.  However, the Cubby's building is 2 stories, therefore 17,424 sq. ft.  The second floor of Cubby's is apartments.

[the1wags]

Yeah it is two stories. So we are looking at a Cubby's sized store. Right on my walk home too.

http://douglasne.mapping-online.com/Dou ... 0316020004

[Guest]

Coyote wrote:

Out of Blair? There are no independent grocers in Blair.

The folks at Blair Superfoods - Meats & Deli might argue that point.

According to the following site:  nebraskapedia.com/Business/BlairSuperfoods/index there is at least one independent grocer in Blair, Nebraska.  Is there something you know that we don't?  If not, why respond with such a dismissive non factual response to a relatively new forum-er?

[DTO Luv]

[I hope the 7500 SQ FT is Wrong!

Cubby's on 13th street is 17,500
and by compairson, Whole Foods Regency is 58,000

Why would you hope that's wrong? I've said time and time again a DT grocery store is not going to be like a Baker's or Hyvee. Much less Whole foods. If it's the same size as Cubby's I'll be happy with it.

[Brad]

Cubby's is too small for a downtown grocery store.  I would say 20,000 Minimum.

An by the way I said Whole Foods is 58,000.  Bakers and HyVee are around 80,000+ I nvere said anything about needing a Baker's or HyVee

[DTO Luv]

Cubby's is too small for a downtown grocery store.  I would say 20,000 Minimum.

An by the way I said Whole Foods is 58,000.  Bakers and HyVee are around 80,000+ I nvere said anything about needing a Baker's or HyVee

No Cubby's is not too small. Downtown living is just so different from suburban living that I don't think some of you get what you're talking about. Cubby's has pretty much anything you could want from the grocer. Yes somethings are lacking but a 20,000 ft grocery store DT is not the nature of the beast.

I actually put pictures of Cubby's up on another site that's international and people were saying they'd KILL just to have what Cubby's offers in Downtown store. Plus there are other stores around DT to fill in the gaps of what other stores don't carry. Even some huge cities don't have one stop shop grocery/supermarkets Downtown. It's different living down here and unless you do or have I don't think you'll quite understand how it is shopping. Especially if you don't have a car like me.

[Brad]

The type of people that Wallstreet Tower, Riverfront place and other high end condos are not going to want to shop at cubby's for groceries.  Cubby's is an Extra Large Gas Station.  Other urban condo dwellers on this forum drive out west to shop or shop out west on the way home from work.  I think you are selling Downtown way too short thinking that it can not handle a 20,000 sq ft grocery store. when people downtown drive all the way out to 80,000 sq ft stores out west.

[DTO Luv]

There are more people Downtown that DON'T live in high end condos than do. Why is it "Oh the rich people need a place to shop?" When there have been regular, real urban people down here already that have been under served. If a Baker's or Whole Foods opened up DT, I'd be happy. But the reality of the situation is that that is not often reality.

[Brad]

You are not getting it... I am saying 20,000 square feet.  That is 1/4 the size as a bakers or HyVee, 1/3 the size of a Whole Foods, but  3 times bigger than cubbys.

[the1wags]

While I'm happy another place could be opening (on my walk route no less), I also hope for the day when we land something a little larger. I don't think (or really want) a 80ft2 HyVee or Bakers size place, but Fareways are right at 25k ft2 and I think that's totally doable somewhere DT. Time will tell.

[Guest 2]

I have lived in the Old Market for 8 years and I shop at Cubby's.  Every 2 weeks or so I drive to a larger supermarket just like most people do in Omaha.  In the last few months Cubby's has added a lot more items to their shelves and my trips to the supermarket have decreased.  I see no need for a larger grocery store in my neighborhood.

[Ben]

The building looks to be around 7500 sq. ft. in size.

Not a bad eyeball guesstimate, RFO.  I rode by there today, and the Grub Ellis sign on the side said 8700 sqft.  Looks like a nice building, with only minor renovation needed (add refrigerators, etc) and while that'd be a little smaller than I had hoped for a grocery, something is better than nothing.  Hope this rumor comes to fruition.

If not, I've always wondered why nobody has considered the old Butternut building site (9th and Jones) for a grocery store.  Between that site and the adjacent property on 9th and Leavenworth, you've got a fairly sizable chunk of unused property, in a close to everything, yet still slightly out of the way, location.  I think that location would be perfect for a ground-up building of a small, yet full service, neighborhood grocery store (along the lines of Wolhners or something similar).  If they wanted, they could even do parking garage under the grocery, making the store several stories tall, and having a walk-up entrance from the 10th st bridge....

I know Bluestone controls the Butternut site, not sure about the property to the south...

[luckystar]

Back when I was still with Baker's, there was talk of opening a store in the Burlington building on 10th Street.  But that was at least 5 years ago -- back before Kroger ran Baker's into the ground.

[Swift]

The difference between suburban and urban grocery shopping, and the reason Bucky's is an adequate sized grocery, is when grocery shop in the suburbs you drive your car and go once every week or two and buy a lot of stuff. When grocery shopping in an urban environment you walk to the store and go several times a week buying only a few things each time. (When the grocery store is a 5 minute walk from your apartment, you can basically just go shopping for every meal).

That being said, I'd love to see a Trader Joe's or something open downtown.

[Guest]

The potential store is less a grocery store and more of a specialty provider from what I have heard.  If you like meat, your in business.

[cdub]

Oops - I'll put my name on that last one...