DTO Luv wrote:Why is it in Omaha that when we talk about riverfront development it's always greenspace? We have enough "natural" areas Downtown, but remember this is DOWNTOWN not Valley. If we want to have a riverfront model I think we should go more Chicago River than Missouri River 300 years ago.
Probably because rivers are SUPPOSED to have 'greenspace' around them, for ecological health. Â Now, obviously, the Missouri through Omaha is greatly altered and disconnected from its historic floodplain because of man, but geez, what's wrong with having a little serenity in our lives, and having a little semblence to the natural environment?
And the Chicago 'River'? Â Are you kidding me? Â Talk about ecological disasters....
"Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved."
What I would say is, why can't the riverfront promenade be extended south and the building kept and redeveloped?
I'd envision a mixed use building with loft condos and rentals, with restaurants/clubs/bars on the ground level overlooking the rive, and the promenade being "built" past the building on a sort of bridge, or elevated walkway attatched to the building. Â This would be where the restaurans and bars could have outdoor seating, etc. and also have enough room for joggers/strollers passing by.
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
DTO Luv wrote:Plus in Manhattan green space like that is non existant. Here it seems like putting up parks that close at 9 is some people's answer to Downtown development. I think we could stand to turn some of that greenspace in HOA park and by Gallup into more urban areas and usage.
Once they fill in all those S-holes by your house and over by ketv, and they get rid of storage buildings in the market, and they get rid of the 3-story state office building, then we can talk about changes to the park. Â Until then its is an asset that actually attracts people from west Omaha to downtown. Â I know many people that live west of 72nd that only go downtown to eat in the market, go to events at the qwest and walk in the parks.
Why should DOWNTOWN cater to people interested in suburban living? The two don't mesh well. Parks are all over the place here. I don't know why DT has to have these super parks. All they do is attract bums. If they were private business like they used to be we wouldn't have a such a problem with the homeless congregating DT.
I'm all for parks and green space in downtown and urban areas. Â What I'm NOT for is turning every building that needs a paint job or a new tenant into a freaking lawn.
While New York doesn't have greenspaces, that probably limits the abilities to have cultural events in greenspaces away from traffic and other things. Â
Imagine if New York had an occasional greenspace?  Think of the uses they would have, I know they have Central Park and it is a world class park, however, imagine if they had more here and there!  I think  an urban greenspace is not only breathtaking for a DT, but allows many alternatives from relaxation, festivals, corporate events, and if there is a park here and there it can be in walking distance..
1. Â I can find a lot of bums in downtown that are not in freaking parks. Â May be if stupid people didn't feed them in the parks!
2. Â There is way cooler stuff to look in the parks downtown, tall buildings, largest fountain in the Midwest, the river, etc
3. Â Catering to West O...... you are starting to sound like Jake. Â Last I checked you didn't have that big of a population in downtown. Who is going to support all these businesses if you keep us out of there. Â
4. Â I forgot that tourist like to use the parks while staying downtown.
Erik wrote:While New York doesn't have greenspaces, that probably limits the abilities to have cultural events in greenspaces away from traffic and other things.
Imagine if New York had an occasional greenspace? Think of the uses they would have, I know they have Central Park and it is a world class park, however, imagine if they had more here and there! I think an urban greenspace is not only breathtaking for a DT, but allows many alternatives from relaxation, festivals, corporate events, and if there is a park here and there it can be in walking distance..
I think its smart to have it..
NYC has a park every 8 blocks once you leave midtown. Â The city is nothing but community areas. Â The parks just don't look like the lawns in west O.
And I was just talking with some friends about the lack of cultural events and venues NYC has...
Brad wrote:1. Â I can find a lot of bums in downtown that are not in freaking parks. Â May be if stupid people didn't feed them in the parks!
Amen, brutha. Â Let's have some of these West O churches load 'em all up and take them to their back yard. Â I've offered to pay for the bus charter before, and it still stands. Â I'll throw in the food once a month, too. Â They just don't get to bring them back when they're done.
Erik wrote:While New York doesn't have greenspaces, that probably limits the abilities to have cultural events in greenspaces away from traffic and other things.
Imagine if New York had an occasional greenspace? Think of the uses they would have, I know they have Central Park and it is a world class park, however, imagine if they had more here and there! I think an urban greenspace is not only breathtaking for a DT, but allows many alternatives from relaxation, festivals, corporate events, and if there is a park here and there it can be in walking distance..
I think its smart to have it..
NYC has a park every 8 blocks once you leave midtown. The city is nothing but community areas. The parks just don't look like the lawns in west O.
And I was just talking with some friends about the lack of cultural events and venues NYC has...
Brad wrote:1. I can find a lot of bums in downtown that are not in freaking parks. May be if stupid people didn't feed them in the parks!
Amen, brutha. Let's have some of these West O churches load 'em all up and take them to their back yard. I've offered to pay for the bus charter before, and it still stands. I'll throw in the food once a month, too. They just don't get to bring them back when they're done.
-Big E
Not exactly what I was talking about Big E, but we both got our points out at least  :;):
What I would say is, why can't the riverfront promenade be extended south and the building kept and redeveloped?
I'd envision a mixed use building with loft condos and rentals, with restaurants/clubs/bars on the ground level overlooking the rive, and the promenade being "built" past the building on a sort of bridge, or elevated walkway attatched to the building. This would be where the restaurans and bars could have outdoor seating, etc. and also have enough room for joggers/strollers passing by.
That would be pretty cool. I would much rather have condos, restaurants, retail, entertainment options than greenspace. At the time of my first post I was thinking about the area and thought a park would fit in. I was thinking more along the lines of an extended Heartland of America park with docks and fountains and all those other things that go along with a park.
I know I'm going over the top on this one, but just imagine this one:
Having ferry boats going to either side of the river and along the river is a bunch of parks, but with restaurants and clubs mixed in and specialty entertainment venues and parks such..
I think that would be really cool, not very likely, but cool  :D
thenewguy wrote: I'm going to see if i can't come up with something that would show Pacific Life, Wall Street Tower, and a hotel on Swanson to go with Woodmen and First National. Â I can't wait for it to be like 3 years from now.
You mean something like this?
Today I determined the much talked about yellow riverfront building on the left side of the above photo is the old OPPD power plant. Â Follow the discussion of the future development of this property at:
This thread has aerial photos of the former power plant and the surrounding area, includes the south edge of ConAgra campus and the Durham Museum. Â Also it has Quotes from the Omaha World-Herald article:
Let's talk about Hotel Fontenelle! The excerpt below is talking about the DoubleTree moving into downtown:
Here it is. I told you it was ugly. If you want to really be depressed, click on the picture to see what it replaced.
With this new atrocity in place (complete with revolving rooftop bar and swimming pool) the writing was on the wall. The Fontenelle lost all the convention business and airline contracts (stewardesses are always the first to latch onto a trend) and they announced that the Sheraton-Fontenelle would close. And it did.
It sat empty for a few years while they decided what to do with it, before finally liquidating the fixtures. My Mom and Sister and I went to the sale after I begged my Mom to take me (That’s the kind of weird kid I was) My Mom was game for the adventure, but my sister stood outside and whined so we didn’t get to stay very long.
The building had not been heated or cooled for several years, and it smelled weird. The Bombay room (which had been remodeled into some sort of horrible Victorian themed restaurant in the last years before the closure) was full of TV’s. The Black Mirror Room was full of what the Hotel Industry calls the Big Three: China, Glass and Silver. The Ballroom was full of beds and furniture.
For almost twenty more years, it sat empty and decaying. Plans for it would come and go, but no action. The fire department started to get antsy about vagrants setting it on fire. It’s big corner sign got loose in a windstorm and caused the closure of the streets around it for an entire afternoon, complete with live TV news coverage.
Sometime in the 80’s, after I had left for good, the end came. It was demolished, story-by-story and replaced with the epitome of progress, Omaha Style: A parking lot.
When Omaha lost the Fontenelle, it lost part of its history. Every real city has an old-line hotel that has been there for years. It’s the place where your parents had their first date, or your cousin had her wedding reception, or you went to your first prom. It’s the place where all the silver-plated charity functions happen, and the stars stay. The place where your company has its Christmas Party or your family always goes to for Easter Dinner.
Omaha had that, and lost it, and I think it’s the worse for it. But what do I know.
And there's even more lost buildings. It's like a demolition party.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the block to the left in the foreground is now the Woodmen?
That is correct, you can see in this aerial directly across from the Courthouse and next to the Omaha National Bank building is the block of the woodmen.
I think the photo was taken from the roof of the old Sheraton Fontenelle Hotel.  The building in the background, where the Woodmen is now, is the old Omaha City Hall----I remember going there to get a polio or smallpox vaccine shot  when I was about 5 or 6.  It had one of those really cool Victorian era glass and wrought iron cage elevators in the middle of the atrium lobby.
all that picture made me remember was how bland and shitty some of the modern forms of architecture are. 1) you couldn't afford to have details around windows, roofs, etc, now like they did back then  2) it still makes me sick to see all the building character they wiped out for nothing.
thenewguy wrote:all that picture made me remember was how bland and |expletive| some of the modern forms of architecture are. 1) you couldn't afford to have details around windows, roofs, etc, now like they did back then 2) it still makes me sick to see all the building character they wiped out for nothing.
Well there is definitely hope in Post-Modernism, that's for sure.
Christopher Burbach / World-Herald staff writer wrote:When a backhoe suddenly appeared and began knocking down a 1928 Dundee house a couple of years ago, history-loving neighbors were appalled and befuddled.
They didn’t even know about the demolition until it was too late to think about doing anything about it.
ricko wrote:I think the photo was taken from the roof of the old Sheraton Fontenelle Hotel.  The building in the background, where the Woodmen is now, is the old Omaha City Hall----I remember going there to get a polio or smallpox vaccine shot  when I was about 5 or 6.  It had one of those really cool Victorian era glass and wrought iron cage elevators in the middle of the atrium lobby.
You're exactly right. Because of some research I did on Omaha's past historic gems (that are now gone), I always think of that fanciful City Hall every time I see the Woodmen Tower, practically. It was a beautiful building. Some of those buildings were deemed "unsafe", so that is why they were torn down. But, they could have reinforced the structure somehow.
Ugh, if we could only drive to Downtown Omaha, and have some of these old gems back to enjoy (along with the gems they kept), while keeping the modern buildings we have now. I would love downtown even more. That old Omaha high school was sooo dramatic and cool, and sometimes, I wish that were still here over Central High School. Yet, I love the Central High School building, too. It is hard to picture Omaha without it.
I can get pushed out because I'm "too much" for some. Then, an observer of me comes suddenly swooping in to "fill my shoes." People are always more accepting of the new one, because their feathers aren't truly ruffled by them. (Yawn) I can count on it every time.
skinzfan23 wrote:Sorry the image is so big but I really like this view...one of the more clear pictures I have seen of Omaha.
That is a great picture, isn't it? Even though I like the height modern skyscrapers bring, sometimes I still like a town without them (like Omaha in this picture), because it is more fitting to the "human scale", and is more train set-looking. The draw back with no skyscrapers is, though: You can't see downtown from a distance anywhere in town, so there isn't that focal point present, a tall clump of towers to signify the city's center.
I can get pushed out because I'm "too much" for some. Then, an observer of me comes suddenly swooping in to "fill my shoes." People are always more accepting of the new one, because their feathers aren't truly ruffled by them. (Yawn) I can count on it every time.
DTO Luv wrote:That is HARDLY a fair comparison. I don't see them tearing down riverfront property in NYC to put up a suburban office building (a la Gallup).
Plus in Manhattan green space like that is non existant. Here it seems like putting up parks that close at 9 is some people's answer to Downtown development. I think we could stand to turn some of that greenspace in HOA park and by Gallup into more urban areas and usage.
Greenspace is a hallmark of most riverfront development. Richmond, Minneapolis, Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Seattle, etc. I could keep going forever.
skinzfan23 wrote:Sorry the image is so big but I really like this view...one of the more clear pictures I have seen of Omaha.
That is a great picture, isn't it? Even though I like the height modern skyscrapers bring, sometimes I still like a town without them (like Omaha in this picture), because it is more fitting to the "human scale", and is more train set-looking. The draw back with no skyscrapers is, though: You can't see downtown from a distance anywhere in town, so there isn't that focal point present, a tall clump of towers to signify the city's center.
Designed to a human scale is right. This picture, and many like it, make me so sad...
Regarding focal points, I wrote of First National Tower as being just that on one of my exams, lol. Because Omaha lacks mountains, for example, it serves as the perfect landmark. I recall being able to see it from 204th and Maple. That's pretty incredible.
