16th Street Master Plan

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Brad
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16th Street Master Plan

Postby Brad » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:23 am

A sweet vision for 16th St.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20090729/NEWS01/707299944

Jeffrey Robb
WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER wrote:
The best hopes for what 16th Street can become to the heart of downtown Omaha have been running into a cloud of exhaust in recent years.

But a new cooperative effort sparked by Omaha's new downtown master plan might change things.

At one time, 16th Street around Farnam and Harney Streets was a bustling shopping area. In the 1980s, the city tried to revitalize the strip, but the effort became a model for how not to remake downtown.

Now the corridor — home to some employers and institutions key to the metropolitan area — is pocked with empty storefronts and clogged with buses.

The new 16th Street visionaries believe that they can make the stretch another downtown arts, shopping and restaurant center, in part by moving a transit stop.

“The potential is there,” said Joe Gudenrath, executive director of the Downtown Improvement District.

The future of 16th Street between Dodge and Jackson Streets is the subject of a study funded by an anonymous donor. The Downtown Improvement District and consulting firm HDR are leading the effort.

A concept is being floated to move Metro Area Transit's transfer station to 16th and Cass Streets, return parking to 16th Street, build new storefronts and refresh the area's look. In the short term, artists would be invited to open galleries along the street, giving way to new shops over time.

The City Planning Department considers the 16th Street project one of the first tangible outgrowths of Omaha's proposed 20-year downtown master plan, which has the support of the Omaha Planning Board and will go before the City Council in coming weeks.
Last edited by Brad on Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby the1wags » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:08 am

While the city is hurting for cash, I'm hoping that they can get this implemented ASAP.

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Postby mrdwhsr » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:40 pm

[font=Arial]A sweet vision for 16th St. [/font]
http://www.omaha.com/article/20090729/NEWS01/707299944

More questions than answers:

Pedestrian traffic is increased by adding more parking?
   If more auto parking makes for a pedestrian friendly environment, why do the shoppers at Oak View Mall park as close to an entrance as possible? Wouldn't  they park at the far edge of the parking lot to enjoy the pedestrian ambiance? If a nearby parking spot were required to draw retail customers, the OLD MARKET wouldn't be making a go of it. Quite a few of us find ourselves with a walk of several blocks to get to the shops and restaurants we want to visit.
   

Pedestrian traffic is increased by removing public transit aka buses?
  Now that I can understand. Bus fumes just don't draw me to public transit -- or 16th Street. But why do our mayor, city councilors, MAT and MAPA think tweaking a few things in a bus centric transit system will increase ridership? Oh, I get it Mayor Suttle -- the bus is good enough for the elderly and poor who have no other transit options -- everyone else into your cars!


Pedestrian traffic is increased by increasing the amount and speed of auto-traffic?
   Maybe among the suicidal. Where is that through traffic on 16th? Traffic from the North is blocked by the Red Lion and traffic from the south by I-80. 16th isn't the big through street  that it was when the Streetcar was prime transportation. Most of the auto-traffic on 16th today is folks turning from the east-west arterials: Dodge, Douglas, Farnum, Harney, Leavenworth. To lure more traffic from Dodge, Douglas etc which comes first more retail or more traffic?
 

Will someone please show me a successful example where tearing out a pedestrian or transit mall actually resulted in a return of retail to downtown?
   I haven't thought of any. I fear we are seeing our new mayor's commitment to increased automobility, the hades with streetcars (aka workable public transit).

Here is another idea

     -- remove the buses but replace them with streetcars in a system that serves Creighton U, Ameritrade Park, Qwest Center, Henry Doorly Zoo, UNMC and UNO. And while you are at it, extend the line south on 16th Street to the Vinton neighborhood along with some new residential development to provide streetcar riders and downtown shoppers.

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Postby Uffda » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:23 pm

Will someone please show me a successful example where tearing out a pedestrian or transit mall actually resulted in a return of retail to downtown?


While the Sioux Falls downtown isn't anything close to Omaha's in size or anything else. The main street of shops has gone through at least 2-3 different designs over the years. It was a straight drive through, then they went more to a curvy street with little parking (more walking) then they re did that so tyhere was more diagonal parking. This summer they redid it again. I havent seen it in person but here are some  design sketches.

http://www.siouxfalls.org/PublicWorks/s ... 12/gallery

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Postby TitosBuritoBarn » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:55 pm

Adding parking creates a pedestrian atmosphere because then the pedestrians have a way to get there without walking a bajillion blocks. Think of all the places you are most likely to find pedestrians walking around...like the Old Market, Village Pointe....all have relatively close parking.

Oak View does have a pedestrian atmosphere, its inside the mall...

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Postby RegisResident » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:43 pm

I think the trick is to make it seem like there is parking directly in front of retailers, even if the majority of parking is a short walk away... if you think about village point, there are a very limited number of spots down the main street and the majority of parking is outside of the main strip. People always drive down the main strip because the close spot might be open but usually end up in the bigger parking lots. I think this will be the same idea once they add parking to 16th- there will be limited parking on 16th but most people will end up on one of the other streets (harney, farnam, douglas, howard) or in one of the surface lots but the retailers will still get the traffic/parking they want. Along with parking the city will have to do some other things to clean up 16th, but at least they are developing a plan.

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Postby annad » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:40 pm

Uffda wrote:
Will someone please show me a successful example where tearing out a pedestrian or transit mall actually resulted in a return of retail to downtown?


While the Sioux Falls downtown isn't anything close to Omaha's in size or anything else. The main street of shops has gone through at least 2-3 different designs over the years. It was a straight drive through, then they went more to a curvy street with little parking (more walking) then they re did that so tyhere was more diagonal parking. This summer they redid it again. I havent seen it in person but here are some  design sketches.

http://www.siouxfalls.org/PublicWorks/s ... 12/gallery


I used to live in Sioux Falls, and downtown parking was a disaster.  Phillips has come a long way in the last several years, and I can imagine that adding a little more parking to the area is a good thing.  Just checked their website and they're also adding bike paths to Phillips during construction.    I hear a streetcar is next.  (Kidding! Don't throw things!)

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Postby guitarguy » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:59 pm

after spending a week in atlanta i really wish omaha had the means to implement the kind of parking they have here.. its just awesome.. nearly every building downtown has parking underneath the street level buildings or a parking garage.. the mixed use places here really make me realize omaha needs to modify their game plan too.. every mixed use place here has people living in the upper levels parking above the street level stuff and restaurants and shops on the street and they keep this consistent throughout every development and it just seems to add to the urban feel...

also ive noticed how much better buildings can look without the omaha tradition of adding green glass in every building :?

this post has no real meaning other than observing what another much larger city is doing lol


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Postby Ice Cream » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:27 pm

Atlanta by far has the least pedestrian friendly downtown area of any major city I've visited. I was really surprised and expected much better.

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Postby guitarguy » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:31 am

well yea their downtown is so spread out its impossible to make it 'pedestrian friendly' i was mostly commenting on being able to get many more people parked in the same amount of space that we have here to improve pedestrian traffic instead of having parking spots everywhere where you have to walk a ways to get to where the action is if there aren't any more spots available..

but as we all know omaha loves surface parking so this will most likely never happen in our lifetimes

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Postby OmahaChef » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:13 pm

mrdwhsr wrote:[font=Arial]A sweet vision for 16th St. [/font]
http://www.omaha.com/article/20090729/NEWS01/707299944

More questions than answers:

Pedestrian traffic is increased by adding more parking?
   If more auto parking makes for a pedestrian friendly environment, why do the shoppers at Oak View Mall park as close to an entrance as possible? Wouldn't  they park at the far edge of the parking lot to enjoy the pedestrian ambiance? If a nearby parking spot were required to draw retail customers, the OLD MARKET wouldn't be making a go of it. Quite a few of us find ourselves with a walk of several blocks to get to the shops and restaurants we want to visit.
   

Pedestrian traffic is increased by removing public transit aka buses?
  Now that I can understand. Bus fumes just don't draw me to public transit -- or 16th Street. But why do our mayor, city councilors, MAT and MAPA think tweaking a few things in a bus centric transit system will increase ridership? Oh, I get it Mayor Suttle -- the bus is good enough for the elderly and poor who have no other transit options -- everyone else into your cars!


Pedestrian traffic is increased by increasing the amount and speed of auto-traffic?
   Maybe among the suicidal. Where is that through traffic on 16th? Traffic from the North is blocked by the Red Lion and traffic from the south by I-80. 16th isn't the big through street  that it was when the Streetcar was prime transportation. Most of the auto-traffic on 16th today is folks turning from the east-west arterials: Dodge, Douglas, Farnum, Harney, Leavenworth. To lure more traffic from Dodge, Douglas etc which comes first more retail or more traffic?
 

Will someone please show me a successful example where tearing out a pedestrian or transit mall actually resulted in a return of retail to downtown?
   I haven't thought of any. I fear we are seeing our new mayor's commitment to increased automobility, the hades with streetcars (aka workable public transit).

Here is another idea

     -- remove the buses but replace them with streetcars in a system that serves Creighton U, Ameritrade Park, Qwest Center, Henry Doorly Zoo, UNMC and UNO. And while you are at it, extend the line south on 16th Street to the Vinton neighborhood along with some new residential development to provide streetcar riders and downtown shoppers.


As someone who lives downtown and has made the commitment to not own a vehicle, the idea of moving the transit mall to under I-480 is not very exciting to me.  Sure, all the people who never ride the bus are estatic about the idea, and can't wait to drive down to 16th Street to shop in all the artists studios that are sure to pop up the second the buses are moved, but MAT has been working with groups and organizations like the YPC to get more people to consider the bus as an alternate source of transportation.  So, how does moving the bus routes to the fringe of downtown make it more desireable?  If you actually used the bus system, I bet you would not be cheering so loudly.
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Postby Harpoon » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:24 pm

They are just planning on moving the transfer station to the area around Creighton, buses will still circulate through downtown.

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Postby mrdwhsr » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:25 am

OmahaChef wrote:
mrdwhsr wrote:[font=Arial]A sweet vision for 16th St. [/font]

Here is another idea

     -- remove the buses but replace them with streetcars in a system that serves Creighton U, Ameritrade Park, Qwest Center, Henry Doorly Zoo, UNMC and UNO. And while you are at it, extend the line south on 16th Street to the Vinton neighborhood along with some new residential development to provide streetcar riders and downtown shoppers.


As someone who lives downtown and has made the commitment to not own a vehicle, the idea of moving the transit mall to under I-480 is not very exciting to me.  Sure, all the people who never ride the bus are estatic about the idea, and can't wait to drive down to 16th Street to shop in all the artists studios that are sure to pop up the second the buses are moved, but MAT has been working with groups and organizations like the YPC to get more people to consider the bus as an alternate source of transportation.  So, how does moving the bus routes to the fringe of downtown make it more desireable?  If you actually used the bus system, I bet you would not be cheering so loudly.



       I'm not cheering the decision to remove the bus transfer and add on-street parking to 16th. I just don't see the addition of parking as a big enticement to get the suburbanite auto-culture house-wife to shop downtown. I'm nearly as old as dirt and remember the 1950's when mom and I rode the bus downtown where Kresge, Sears, Wards, Woolworth, Younkers were packed with shoppers. Not your typical 'OLD MARKET' shopper -- these folks are at the suburban malls today. The point I was trying to make is I don't think more parking on 16th Street will lure the typical 1950's shoppers back from the mall. (Frankly I have a mall allergy. About an hour at a mall with the wife a couple of times per year I find it hard to breath and my chest starts hurting. I much prefer the Old Market and the spots off the beaten path).

IMO Streetcars and buses could co-exist just fine... Maybe the new transfer point makes sense and maybe not. I'd be skeptical too considering the quality of service offered by MAT .. but I'm all for more public transit investment - streetcars and light-rail - and obviously there will need to be connections between the new transit and the bus routes.  :)

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Postby TechnicalDisaster » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:49 am

I'm not cheering the decision to remove the bus transfer and add on-street parking to 16th. I just don't see the addition of parking as a big enticement to get the suburbanite auto-culture house-wife to shop downtown.


Of course not.  Why would those moms ditch the superior shopping choices out west for a tiny strip of niche shops?  They'll visit those stores once or maybe twice a year on the special occasion when they eat at the downtown Spaghetti Works.  You would really have to beef up and get mainstream shopping downtown to entice people.
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Postby OmahaChef » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:02 pm

mrdwhsr wrote:
OmahaChef wrote:
mrdwhsr wrote:[font=Arial]A sweet vision for 16th St. [/font]

Here is another idea

     -- remove the buses but replace them with streetcars in a system that serves Creighton U, Ameritrade Park, Qwest Center, Henry Doorly Zoo, UNMC and UNO. And while you are at it, extend the line south on 16th Street to the Vinton neighborhood along with some new residential development to provide streetcar riders and downtown shoppers.


As someone who lives downtown and has made the commitment to not own a vehicle, the idea of moving the transit mall to under I-480 is not very exciting to me.  Sure, all the people who never ride the bus are estatic about the idea, and can't wait to drive down to 16th Street to shop in all the artists studios that are sure to pop up the second the buses are moved, but MAT has been working with groups and organizations like the YPC to get more people to consider the bus as an alternate source of transportation.  So, how does moving the bus routes to the fringe of downtown make it more desireable?  If you actually used the bus system, I bet you would not be cheering so loudly.



       I'm not cheering the decision to remove the bus transfer and add on-street parking to 16th. I just don't see the addition of parking as a big enticement to get the suburbanite auto-culture house-wife to shop downtown. I'm nearly as old as dirt and remember the 1950's when mom and I rode the bus downtown where Kresge, Sears, Wards, Woolworth, Younkers were packed with shoppers. Not your typical 'OLD MARKET' shopper -- these folks are at the suburban malls today. The point I was trying to make is I don't think more parking on 16th Street will lure the typical 1950's shoppers back from the mall. (Frankly I have a mall allergy. About an hour at a mall with the wife a couple of times per year I find it hard to breath and my chest starts hurting. I much prefer the Old Market and the spots off the beaten path).

IMO Streetcars and buses could co-exist just fine... Maybe the new transfer point makes sense and maybe not. I'd be skeptical too considering the quality of service offered by MAT .. but I'm all for more public transit investment - streetcars and light-rail - and obviously there will need to be connections between the new transit and the bus routes.  :)


I am sorry!  I quoted your post because you made a lot of valid points. I should have mentioned that.

I took a look at 16th Street this morning and the one thing that struck me is that all the trees along the street are located where the parking would likely go.  Those trees are the one thing that I really like about 16th Street.  It gives it a "look" that other streets downtown do not have.  

I just do not buy the artist studio concept.  It seems to get used a lot when ideas are bounced around.  How busy is Hot Shops on an average day?  How packed are the art galleries in the Old Market on an average day?  And how much leaseable space is there on 16th Street?  The old Taste of Eden, the Lerner Building, a corner space at the Brandeis, and a lower level restaurant at the Regis.  Everything else is occupied.

I guess I will either feel better when I see what MAT comes up with for re-routing their lines, or I will be upset for renting the place I picked.  I understand moving the transit mall because, in reality, it is not so much the buses, as they really do not spew the massive amount of fumes some people claim, but the transit mall, and it's host of "interesting people" hanging out all day and night that isn't quite so desireable.  Move them under I-480, with the homeless people sleeping under the overpasses, and the problem is solved.  Kind of like chopping down the trees on that troublesome corner of the Gene Leahy Mall, and claiming it was to reduce the starling population.

If they want to move the transit mall, move it.  But ripping out all the trees, and adding parking so when you walk down the sidewalk, you see a sea of automobile front ends, and a few of those "urban correct" four foot trees just is not going to be the same.  I do not see how that is a step forward, unless the ultimate goal is to tear down all the historic buildings on 16th street and build a modern urban mall.
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Postby Midtown Gal » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:46 pm

Saw on Twitter that the Downtown Master Plan passed 7-0.  Anyone know anything else?

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Postby Bosco55David » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:27 am

Midtown Gal wrote:Saw on Twitter that the Downtown Master Plan passed 7-0.  Anyone know anything else?


And if it did pass, when will we start to see movement on this?

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Postby ShawJ » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:58 am

OmahaChef wrote:

I took a look at 16th Street this morning and the one thing that struck me is that all the trees along the street are located where the parking would likely go.  Those trees are the one thing that I really like about 16th Street.  It gives it a "look" that other streets downtown do not have.  



I agree. Having all or even some of those trees torn out would be a darn shame. That's what gives 16th street its character, in my opinion. I'm not sure how they would want to regulate parking, though.

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Postby GetUrban » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:14 pm

ShawJ wrote:
OmahaChef wrote:

I took a look at 16th Street this morning and the one thing that struck me is that all the trees along the street are located where the parking would likely go.  Those trees are the one thing that I really like about 16th Street.  It gives it a "look" that other streets downtown do not have.  



I agree. Having all or even some of those trees torn out would be a darn shame. That's what gives 16th street its character, in my opinion. I'm not sure how they would want to regulate parking, though.


I agree it's a shame to waste good mature trees, but new trees can always be planted to fit in with the new scheme  interspersed with parking.

I don't know for sure, but chances are many of the trees are past their prime and have become over-grown or have not  been properly maintained.
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Postby GetUrban » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:24 pm

Bosco55David wrote:
Midtown Gal wrote:Saw on Twitter that the Downtown Master Plan passed 7-0.  Anyone know anything else?


And if it did pass, when will we start to see movement on this?


I would assume any projects already through the current design/planning stages, or already under construction, would be unaffected by the new master plan. This is not to say that those projects wouldn't have already voluntarily been following the design principles set forth in the Master Plan. Many of the people designing big projects are the same ones pushing for adoption of the principles contained in the document.

I wouldn't expect to see an obvious visible effect of the Master Plan for a few years down the road, since it is a long-term "big picture" kind of document and the local economy has slowed somewhat.
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Postby almighty_tuna » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:29 pm

GetUrban wrote:I wouldn't expect to see an obvious visible effect of the Master Plan for a few years down the road, since it is a long-term "big picture" kind of document and the local economy has slowed somewhat.


Which is a good thing!  I'd rather this than pass a master plan after a bunch of ugly |expletive| was built.

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Postby RegisResident » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:36 pm

Just thought I would pass this along:

Downtown Improvement District wrote:
Downtown Improvement District

Hosts 16th Street Visioning Session on September 1st

Public Invited to Share Thoughts


August 25, 2009 (Omaha, NE) –  The Omaha Downtown Improvement District Association (DID) will host, along with HDR Engineering Inc., a community visioning session for 16th Street on Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:30-8:30 p.m., in the Brandeis Building cafeteria, 210 South 16th Street.  The public is invited to attend.

The session will start with an overview of the 16th Street Corridor Re-Development Conceptual Plan, results of stakeholder interview responses, an overview of similar corridor re-design efforts, followed by a SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, Threats) Analysis and a Geographic Mapping exercise.  The Geographic Mapping exercise allows participants the opportunity to describe their vision for the corridor.

Participants will be grouped around tables to help interact during these exercises.  The primary goal is to establish a vision for the 16th Street corridor that runs from Dodge to Leavenworth Streets.

The DID invites all residents, business tenants, property owners and anybody interested in the future success and development of 16th Street to attend this open community event that will help shape the future of this important downtown corridor.  Parking will be available in the Brandeis Parking Garage located off of 17th & Douglas Streets.


I'm out of town on the 1st otherwise I would definitely go to the visioning session. I think it will take more than adding parking to bring 16th St. back. I think they could start by moving the buses off the street (already part of the plan), making the OHA buildings mixed income instead of all section 8, and creating a more permanent police presence (similar to the Old Market).

I hope people attend and share their thoughts on 16th St.!

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Postby StreetsOfOmaha » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:24 pm

Which "OHA" building are you talking about?
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Postby DTO Luv » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:36 pm

Pretty much that stretch of buildings from 15th to 16th on Farnam. The Securities Building with the Panda Express and antique stores are all low income and there are older resident homes in the Central Park building (not to be confused with the First Comp/REX buildings).
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Postby StreetsOfOmaha » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:50 pm

Ah. I thought there was a specific building.

Well, I DEFINITELY agree with that. I'm not saying do away with section 8, but there should be a better mix of incomes. I remember trying to rent in the Kensington and Orpheum Towers and I couldn't because I was a full time student and was not allowed under section 8. That should NEVER happen. If anything, college aged kids and young professionals are exactly what 16th Street needs MORE of!
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Postby DTO Luv » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:54 pm

I don't know about Section 8 in the Orpheum and Kensington but I know that the Kensington has income restrictions because of tax breaks they recieved to rehab but one person can't make over $27,000 and two people can't make over $35,000. The Orpheum has no income restrictions.
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Postby StreetsOfOmaha » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:35 pm

Well, this was probably five years ago or so. Maybe it wasn't section 8, just those restrictions you mentioned.
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Postby Bosco55David » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:25 pm

Did this plan make any mention of what they planned to do with the ParkFair mall?

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Postby DTO Luv » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:38 pm

The "Parkfair Mall" is has been parking for the CPP buildings for a while now.
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Postby Bosco55David » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:56 pm

DTO Luv wrote:The "Parkfair Mall" is has been parking for the CPP buildings for a while now.


So they gutted it and turned it into a parking garage? Are they just going to leave it there?

Also, what are the CPP buildings?

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Postby thenewguy » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:12 pm

Bosco55David wrote:
DTO Luv wrote:The "Parkfair Mall" is has been parking for the CPP buildings for a while now.


So they gutted it and turned it into a parking garage? Are they just going to leave it there?

Also, what are the CPP buildings?


should be central park plaza
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Postby RegisResident » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:03 am

DTO Luv wrote:Pretty much that stretch of buildings from 15th to 16th on Farnam. The Securities Building with the Panda Express and antique stores are all low income and there are older resident homes in the Central Park building (not to be confused with the First Comp/REX buildings).


There is also the Farnam Building (not be confused with Farnam 1600) that houses the Post Office on Farnam St. that is also OHA/Section 8.

So, basically within a block of each other you have the Securities Building, Central Park building, and the Farnam building that are all 100% section 8. Then you have the Regis and Farnam 1600 condos sandwiched in the middle along with the bus shelters.

At the downtown master plan meeting, I tried to include that section 8 housing on 16th was a hindrance to its development but someone in my group didn't want to include it because they thought it was unfair to single out section 8 housing as a hindrance. Don't get me wrong, I think it is good to have a diverse range of incomes, people, etc. living downtown, but I think it is important to mix the groups together and not have buildings that are 100% section 8, instead split up the buildings and have some "market rate" renters and some section 8 renters.

Another option would be to hold OHA more accountable for their properties. I met with OHA about increasing their security patrols at their properties in the 16th St. area and the response that I got was "We don't have the man power to regularly patrol all of our properties"... so basically they wait until something happens before sending an officer to the building. When I asked if they could do something about the people yelling out of the windows in the Securities building or the guests that park on the sidewalk and honk their horn in their alley they said anything outside of their front door is OPD's problem. When I asked if they would install better lighting in their alley to reduce the amount of drug dealing, defecating, etc. they questioned the legality of the new lights that Regis and Farnam 1600 buildings installed to help prevent those types of activities in our alley.

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Postby Brad » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:24 am

Is 16th street closed from Dodge to Douglas for any development reasons or something else?
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Postby thenewguy » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:06 am

Brad wrote:Is 16th street closed from Dodge to Douglas for any development reasons or something else?


fixed an intersection last week
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Postby Brad » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:34 pm

Josh, D'Shawn,

Care to share the retardedness from tonight?

BTW, DTO, you need a DTOphotos.com shirt if you are going to be on the news like that.
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Postby the1wags » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:27 am

Don't get me started. I wanted to beat people over the head. I'll elaborate later but had to explain to my group a few things when they wanted to list the streetcar as a potential threat to 16th St.  :evil:
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Postby mrdwhsr » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:35 am

the1wags wrote:Don't get me started. I wanted to beat people over the head. I'll elaborate later but had to explain to my group a few things when they wanted to list the streetcar as a potential thread to 16th St.  :evil:


Geez. A streetcar would be an ideal way to bring people from south of downtown (10th Street, 16th Street) and Midtown to 16th Street for shopping. It could lead to a housing revival near downtown for people who aren't going to pay $250,000 and up for 1000 square feet.

I'd be more likely to roam outside the Old Market and Leahy Mall area if the street-car starter route (circulator) was available...the older I get the farther the walk

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Postby the1wags » Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:09 pm

Yeah the "logic" was that if streetcars were put on 16th, people would avoid driving there because it would create congestion like the buses to now.  :banghead: Don't worry though, I corrected their thinking. :)

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Postby thenewguy » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:16 pm

the1wags wrote:Yeah the "logic" was that if streetcars were put on 16th, people would avoid driving there because it would create congestion like the buses to now.  :banghead: Don't worry though, I corrected their thinking. :)



Good.  But the thing that scares the |expletive| out of me in regards to that thinking is there are still a ton of people that feel that way.
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Postby DTO Luv » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am

thenewguy wrote:
the1wags wrote:Yeah the "logic" was that if streetcars were put on 16th, people would avoid driving there because it would create congestion like the buses to now.  :banghead: Don't worry though, I corrected their thinking. :)



Good.  But the thing that scares the |expletive| out of me in regards to that thinking is there are still a ton of people that feel that way.


Correction: It should scare you that there are people who live Downtown on 16th st who feel that way.

The other thing in that meeting that made me want to pull my hair out was this guy in our group who said in a couple years we should look at demolishing every building between 15th and 17th and Douglas and Harney. He said they were old and wouldn't be viable much longer. Well this dumbass is on the DT Improvement District Board. :banghead:
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