16th Street Master Plan

Downtown, Midtown, and all parts east of 72nd.

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Postby iamjacobm » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:21 pm

nativeomahan wrote:Having just returned from Portland, I concur that the city has excellent public transportation, and almost zero parking on streets in the CBD.  The streets have lots of pedestrian traffic, because there are lots of restaurants and stores to patronize downtown.  Putting parking on 16th street is precisely the WRONG thing to do.  Par for the course for Omaha, sad to say.


I completely agree that it is a mistake, trouble is Omaha doesn't have anywhere near the amount of people that value urbanity and pedestrian friendly areas that Portland does.  Parking would make businesses on 16th more successful in the immediate time frame, which is all that really matters here.

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Postby Garrett » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:53 pm

Trouble is, Portland has had everything right from the 70's. They have maintained strong pro-urban policies, developed a good transit system long before highways, and did it all well.

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Postby guitarguy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:11 pm

Ill take a stab here and go out saying that most of the successful transit systems were installed well before the last 20 years and have stayed profitable by expanding them to areas that need it most.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:40 pm

nativeomahan wrote:Having just returned from Portland, I concur that the city has excellent public transportation, and almost zero parking on streets in the CBD.  The streets have lots of pedestrian traffic, because there are lots of restaurants and stores to patronize downtown.




You know what, back in the day in Portland, some business people expressed grave concern of city fathers' taxing the businesses so that they could go forward with the lightrail project, that it would make parking less available and as a result less people would come to patronize their businesses.   They even had said that cheap, efficient public transit would only bring poor people with no money to spend.

Cheap, efficient public transit is an outstanding investment.   I'll explain why.

1. Less traffic jam

2. More business activities due to 1.

3. Less accidents due to 1.

3. Less insurance rates due to 3.

4. Less need for road maintainence due to less wear and tear of the roads.

5. Less medical care costs due to lesser injuries involving public transit

6. Less need for emergency crews due to 3. and 5.

7. Less need for police service, due to 1. and 3.

8. More money saved for the city due to 6. and 7. 10.

9. less local gas price due to less demand for gasoline due to more people using per capita far more efficient public transit, so it's even good for the owners of gas guzzlers.

10. More compact footprint enables far more efficient policing, electricity, water service, and less need for maintainence as well

11. Enables more mobility to people, especially those without independent transit (meaning, low income) so that business owners, especially small business owners out of the main roads to be able to hire people who would have been unemployable primarily due to transportation issues (like here in Omaha, outside Dodge ) so that business owners have a greater pool of employees, who in turn have a greater pool of employment.

12. More money available for the local small businesses due to low income people being able to avoid spending their paycheck on used cars, and upkeep due to 11.

13. More likely homeownerships due to 10. and 11.

14. More revenue for the city due to 11. 12. and 13.




nativeomahan wrote: Putting parking on 16th street is precisely the WRONG thing to do.  Par for the course for Omaha, sad to say.


Penny wise, dollar foolish, indeed
Last edited by Hyok Kim on Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:17 pm

DTO Luv wrote: This is completely unacceptable that this group is sound resoundingly* inept just like that stupid bi+ch who was in charge last year that made $75,000 a year sitting on her |expletive| cutting out paper dolls and buying pocket size ash trays.  :banghead:


Maybe she was 'barefoot and pregnant' poor widow who needed a job to make a living.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:28 pm

thenewguy wrote:Why doesn't the city push to have it developed with legitimate retail?  Nordstroms, Target, Saks, etc, would be good fits downtown.  We've all mentioned this like a million times before.


Which area of downtown do you have in mind?    I don't see any area really big enough for those stores you mentioned.   Besides unless there is efficient public transit, there won't be enough traffic to even cover the overheads for those stores even if they decided to locate to downtown.

In the spirit of fairness, I would never locate to downtown if I were in charge of those stores till I see a public transit efficient enough to bring people to the stores.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:31 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:Thenewguy, I'm not trying to defend the OWH, but those quotes were from WOWT's web site.

My girlfriend and I have been remarking SO much lately how utterly absurd it is that there is no Target east of 72nd St. in Omaha, let alone Downtown on in west CB.

Seriously, Target would do SO WELL Downtown, and it's just the type of retail that will open the floodgates to both new residents, and additional retailers.

Look at how ridiculous this map is:
Image

There is no Target store anywhere near the most densely populated districts of the metro area. And I'm just using Target as ONE example of the type of retail that is inexplicably absent from Omaha's core.


Problem is the bottleneck of finding parking spaces.

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Postby Pat » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:40 pm

Digging up 5 year old posts? Seriously you must be desperate to type your drool. :roll:

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:47 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
That's a huge part of the point I'm making. It was complete ignorance on Target's part to think that opening the store at 72nd and Dodge would suffice for ALL OF EASTERN OMAHA, and to close the Saddle Creek location.



On the contrary, I think it was a brilliant decision on the part of Target.    72nd & Dodge is the main artery of Omaha.    It brings people from North, East, West Omaha as efficiently as can be done under current public transit system, now South Omaha is a little iffy.  

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
Not only should they have kept that store open and UPDATED it, they should have been looking ahead to opening ANOTHER store near Midtown Crossing or Downtown. IF THAT were the case, then and only then would they have had grounds for closing the Saddle Creek location (which still could have stayed open).



Unfortunately for you, we live in capitalist system.   Target won't cannibalize sales with two mega stores nearby when there is not enough population density to optimize her profit from both locations.

Personally, it would have been a poor move on the part of Target.    It's not that much of a big deal for people living near Mid Town Crossing to either drive or even to take public transit to go to 72nd & Dodge area.   Plus there is the problem of parking space.  Do you really think Mid Town Crossing area would have enough free parking for the shoppers of Target?


StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
OmahaJaysCU, I disagree. Yes, I understand what you're saying about the retail market in the economy, but retailers will soon realize that Downtown Omaha is NOT a risk, and in deed, if they want to be successful in the Omaha market, they'll have to think about re-investing in urban Omaha.


Wishful thinking on your part.   I live nearby 16th st,  have lived since 89 (except 2 year departure 98 and 99), till today.   I know how dead the business and foot traffic have been, except the weekend nights on the center of Old Market.

Too many businesses have come and gone.    About the only business in the 16th st area that has actually attracted business outside lunch time is Block 16, and King Fong.

Short of efficient public transit to bring people from all over Omaha, investing in downtown for the big retail outlet is a poor option.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:52 pm

Pat wrote:Digging up 5 year old posts? Seriously you must be desperate to type your drool. :roll:


Why not?   I've got time to kill, and it's a fun reading.   Besides you must be really lonely  to make comments about others without contributing anything.   Have you got anything constructive to say?

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:01 pm

S33 wrote:
Haha, you don't think Target knows what's best for themselves? There aren't an NPO, they do what they have to do to generate the most profit and they aren't here to serve the people.



Just because they're a for profit business doesn't necessarily mean they always make the profitable decision.     After all, business history is full of once great companies going under making oink-headed decisions.

However, on this particular case, I agree both you and Target.


S33 wrote:
If you really know as much as you think you do, perhaps you should propose to Target that you head their expansion board.


Precisely, and Target would ask him, "Where are the shoppers going to park in the Mid Town Crossing?"

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:10 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:I think retailers OFTEN miss their mark in choosing locations because they don't fully understand local markets but on a very superficial level.



...and you know better?   Retailers sometimes miss their mark in choosing locations because they don't fully understand local markets sometimes.   If the retailers OFTEN miss their mark in choosing locations, they won't last as long as they do.



StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
If they're concerned about their bottom line, or even just their integrity, then their goal SHOULD be to serve the people.


You get it totally wrong.   If they are concerned about their bottom line, or even just their integrity,  then their goal SHOULD be to serve the shareholders.   That's why they exist in the first place, and charge extra for their services, AKA profit.

If their goal should be to serve the people, then they would operate as non-profit.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:24 pm

Big E wrote:And it has obviously never occurred in the course of capitalism that a company acting in its own best interests missed an opportunity.


Yes, it is true.  So do you think a company should not act in its own best interest just because sometimes acting in its own best interest misses an opportunity?


Big E wrote:
I don't know what specific metrics Target (or any other retailer for that matter) use to determine when to open and close stores.


The metric is, in essence, very simple.    The total revenue that would be generated from all stores within a given geographical area - the total cost that would incur from all those stores within that given geographical area, divided by the total asset invested in those areas must meet the minimum standard of profitability after tax, or plus tax subsidies from the local government within that given geographical area set by the management, AND as large as it can be.


Big E wrote:
 Obviously, downtown's numbers are different from West O's.  It just seems like a no-brainer to have something in or very near downtown Omaha with its concentration of workers, tourists and residents.


It's no brainer that parking is going to be a problem, and biggest bottleneck.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:32 pm

nativeomahan wrote:
Those we spoke with downtown says you'll also find guns, drugs and violence.


What sort of idiotic statement is that?  Like guns and drugs and violence stay east of 30th St?  Sounds rather like the city's largest shopping mall on a Tuesday afternoon before Christmas a few years back.


Well, let's give them some credit.   They didn't point fingers on North and South Omaha.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:36 pm

mrdwhsr wrote:I now wonder how diagonal parking on 16th Street will increase accessability.


I call that 'band aid' solution.



mrdwhsr wrote:
Unless there is a 90-minute limit strictly enforced those spots will be filled for three hours minimum with the vehicles of folks in the audience of whatever event is at the Orpheum (River Dance last night). Some of us will walk 5 or 6 blocks to dine at the Jazz (15th & Farnam) but there were plenty of empty tables. It can't be much help to the restaurants and bars in the area when the 'convenient' parking is occupied by event parking. Of course, those diagonal parking spots will be available during the day...maybe the businesses attracted to 16th will close at 5 or 6pm. So much for night-life or 24/7.

I still believe a street-car will do more to revitalize 16th Street than diagonal parking.



You hit the nail right on the head.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:51 pm

OmahaJaysCU wrote:
thenewguy wrote:although i think it'd be incredibly difficult/expensive to run a street through the lobby (like the convention center in KC), i think it'd be cool no less.  Why didn't they think of that in the first place?


It was built like that to segregate black people from North Omaha and keep them out of downtown...seriously.


I heard that same story from a Native Omahan from South Omaha (when South Omaha used to be South Omaha).

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:56 pm

thenewguy wrote:It feels like the city of Omaha is a huge fan of doing studies...and then nothing after that.


You hit the nail right on the head.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:59 pm

DTO Luv wrote:
nebport5 wrote:here's a few bullet points from the latest DID meeting...


HDR presentation:

-Move buses off 16th St. to location just north of 480(as seen in downtown master plan)

-parallel parking, no diagonal




I think these are both bad ideas. Say what you want about the buses but I don't think that moving them away from the core of DT is the best idea. Is there some sort of plan for the buses beyond moving them to essentially the middle of nowhere north of 480? I don't see this helping anything transportation, it seems to be more about aesthetics. I went to the 16th St. Master Plan meeting awhile back and most people's complaints about the buses were people riding the buses. Well excuse people for needing public transportation.

The buses on 16th run close to many important places that people now have convenient access to. OPPD, MUD, the courthouse, library, etc. This doesn't seem to be well thought out. You're moving all of that activity away from 16th St. which is one place that needs all the help it can get. I see this coming back and biting us in the |expletive| in the future.

Also, parallel parking on 16th? Do people just want 16th St. to be a failure? There needs to be parking in the area but they could add so more with diagonal. This is just more of what DT already has problems with. Lack of public transportation and misuse of parking. It looks like I gave up hope in this city at the right time though.


I agree with you on this one.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:09 pm

RegisResident wrote:

I think these are both bad ideas. Say what you want about the buses but I don't think that moving them away from the core of DT is the best idea. Is there some sort of plan for the buses beyond moving them to essentially the middle of nowhere north of 480? I don't see this helping anything transportation, it seems to be more about aesthetics. I went to the 16th St. Master Plan meeting awhile back and most people's complaints about the buses were people riding the buses. Well excuse people for needing public transportation.

The buses on 16th run close to many important places that people now have convenient access to. OPPD, MUD, the courthouse, library, etc. This doesn't seem to be well thought out. You're moving all of that activity away from 16th St. which is one place that needs all the help it can get. I see this coming back and biting us in the |expletive| in the future.

Also, parallel parking on 16th? Do people just want 16th St. to be a failure? There needs to be parking in the area but they could add so more with diagonal. This is just more of what DT already has problems with. Lack of public transportation and misuse of parking. It looks like I gave up hope in this city at the right time though.

There would still be a bus stop on 16th St. and in the downtown area but it wouldn't be a hub like it is now, and there probably wouldn't be a bus stop on every corner. According to HDR, over 300 buses a day go up and down 16th and when the buses are waiting to start their next route, they idle somewhere downtown until their route starts. With the new transit center the buses won't have to move while they are waiting to start their next route- this is very similar to how the new transit centers are setup around the rest of the city. There will still be public transportation to and from 16th St., but it won't be a hub and will help ease congestion on 16th St. that is primarily caused by buses.

Parallel parking on 16th is adding some parking to a street that doesn't have any parking. According to HDR, the benefit to parallel is that you can still have a street car line whereas you can't with front-in diagonal because someone could back out and get hit by a street car. I was in some of the discussions about parking and the initial idea HDR had was reverse diagonal parking (meaning you back in diagonally so you could see oncoming traffic when you pulled out)- basically everyone at the meeting shot down the idea because people have a hard enough time parallel parking and forward diagonal parking and reverse diagonal was just a disaster waiting to happen.

I'm very excited about the Apollon Venue- it looks like it will be a very cool reuse of the Lerner building. The website for the group is http://www.apollonomaha.com. I've heard a number of things about this project and I was very excited to see that they have raised about 90% of their funding. This type of a project would fit into the 16th St. plan very well and would compliment the Orpheum very well.



I think I have a better idea.   Turn the W. Dale Clark library into an affordable rental units.   It would bring tons of cash to the city, increase the population density in the downtown area, generating more business activities, and more night life.  

Reduce the size of Gene Lehy mall, and create a hub for the buses in place instead.   This would allow more people to be able to come to the downtown area without having to worry about parking.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:34 pm

iamjacobm wrote:One major difference between the two mentioned and Omaha's.

Those two had established department stores when they converted the area to a mall.  Omaha's is going to need a courageous or ambitious(probably both) national anchor to come in and give other retail a reason to join in on the fun.


It's not going to happen till Omaha solves her bottleneck, the public transit to bring the shoppers efficiently.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:44 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:Retail is coming back to urban areas and it is dying in the suburbs (because that whole arrangement is unsustainable and doesn't have a future). These "resourceful and creative" developers will be looking for a new strategy, or, rather, a "back-to-the-basics of human existence" strategy, to find new markets in urban areas---which are increasingly where people want to be.

I would definitely not rule out a few new "flagship" or "anchor" retailers wanting to enter the Downtown/Midtown market.


First, you have to solve the bottleneck issue, the public transit.    Without UP, there would not have been the development of the West.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:49 pm

iamjacobm wrote:
I completely agree that it is a mistake, trouble is Omaha doesn't have anywhere near the amount of people that value urbanity and pedestrian friendly areas that Portland does.


Must be the water?

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Postby guitarguy » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:51 pm

Would be an interesting study to find out what has always made Omaha more of a family oriented city than a city that aggressively values urban living?

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:55 pm

Axel wrote:Trouble is, Portland has had everything right from the 70's. They have maintained strong pro-urban policies, developed a good transit system long before highways, and did it all well.


Oh!  There were a number of naysayers in between, but of course, most of them deny it or demur now.   Like they say, "Success has a thousand fathers, but failure is an orphan."

Predictively, some of the most vocal opponents were taxi cab companies, and auto mechanics.

In fact, one of my friend, an auto mechanic is still very bitter.  He lost his livelihood, and had to move to Omaha to work as an auto mechanic from the place of his birth, and the place he still would love to live.

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Postby OmahaRoyals » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:50 pm

Hyok Kim wrote:
OmahaJaysCU wrote:
thenewguy wrote:although i think it'd be incredibly difficult/expensive to run a street through the lobby (like the convention center in KC), i think it'd be cool no less.  Why didn't they think of that in the first place?


It was built like that to segregate black people from North Omaha and keep them out of downtown...seriously.


I heard that same story from a Native Omahan from South Omaha (when South Omaha used to be South Omaha).


I've heard this urban legend many times but find it very hard to believe.  It cuts off....one block.    TD Ameritrade Park blocks off more access to downtown than the Doubletree does.   It takes 30 seconds to WALK around this building, let alone simply turn in a car to take 17th or 15th street south.    I understand that there wouldn't be an official source to prove/disprove this, but logic makes more sense to me than whispered rumors.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:53 pm

guitarguy wrote:Would be an interesting study to find out what has always made Omaha more of a family oriented city than a city that aggressively values urban living?


I don't know about 'This Family oriented city' thing.     Wasn't Omaha known as 'The babe Capital of the Mid-West' once?   With brothels in downtown, run by the city fathers themselves?

What I speculate is that people in the old days knew what Omaha was really about, and decided to create a new image for Omaha.   Like JFK said once, "The biggest enemy of the truth is the myth."

or

as they said in 'The Man who shot Liberty Valance',  "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend".

You know what, one thing that really shocked me after I started living here was how spoiled, irresponsible some children were as a group in Omaha compared to Portland.

In downtown, often there was a sign saying, "only 1 or 2 or 3 students at a time."   I didn't understand it.  I never saw such signs in Portland.   Later I found out, children here love to create trouble just for the sake of trouble.   Also, I noticed teenagers here in general do not have a very strong work ethic.   Often, teenagers as soon as they got enough money to buy stuff they want, they would quit without any notice.

Portland has a reputation as a slacker city, (undeserved I believe).   People care about what is, regardless of what others think.   Whereas here, people as a group care more about what others think of them rather than what is real and what really matters, even if it is self-contradictory.   Like some people condenming watching porn, but praising the motherhood.  or like that fella  chiding me in wasting my time replying to posts while being unaware of his wasting his time in chiding me without contributing anything.

People here are as a group more interested in being seen as smart rather than being smart.    Acting like as if they are going somewhere instead of going somewhere for real.

One example,  in Portland, people rarely dress in suit and ties, even business people in white color occupation.   Only time I see business people in suit and ties is during some very important business meetings.    Also, many ride bicycle to work, and bring the bicycles into office and hang them on the wall.

Also, children work to earn their allowances, even the children of rich.     I remember one childhood friend of my brother, whose father was a famous anchorman in Portland, working as a dishwasher/busboy during his teenage years to earn his spending money.   He didn't get it from his father (who, by the way, was a very liberal, and progressive man, didn't believe in spoiling his son).

When I attended Beaverton High School, a suburb of Portland, and solidly middle class town, I never saw one brand new car, much less brand new BMWs driven by some high school kids in West Omaha.

Over the years, I have seen so many grown ups, (men in their late 30's, or even 40's, living off the help from their parents, who are not even well-off).  In one case, a man in his late 30's with 3 children of his own was using those children as a way to get money from his single mom in her 60's, and to 'borrow' her only car so that he could get to work in comfort while his 65 years old mother was taking bus to go to her work in Omaha winter!


Still, I met some of the smartest (for real) and 'real' people I've met in my life, I met them from here.   I just wish more of Omahans are like them.

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Postby iamjacobm » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:59 pm

Those are some big brushes your painting with.

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Postby Alec12321 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:09 pm

Off topic a bit, but I remember reading about Walgreens or CVS being interested in opening a location downtown. I was wondering if the restaurant on the SE corner of 16th & Farnam is in business? Because that would be a great place to have visibility from the Gene Leahey Mall and The strip of stores that Jimmy Johns is located in and could be a very "easy" way to get foot traffic onto, or at least near, 16th St. That would then open the possibilities for a department store down the road. Just a thought but if that place is empty, I'd be surprised if we didn't see at least something new open there. Each store front leading up to that along Farnam is filled I believe, and with the constant push west (even when it comes to Downtown) this is the next available spot. Downtown needs a convenience store other than Cubby's.
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Postby OmahaRoyals » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:49 pm

Alec12321 wrote:Off topic a bit, but I remember reading about Walgreens or CVS being interested in opening a location downtown. I was wondering if the restaurant on the SE corner of 16th & Farnam is in business? Because that would be a great place to have visibility from the Gene Leahey Mall and The strip of stores that Jimmy Johns is located in and could be a very "easy" way to get foot traffic onto, or at least near, 16th St. That would then open the possibilities for a department store down the road. Just a thought but if that place is empty, I'd be surprised if we didn't see at least something new open there. Each store front leading up to that along Farnam is filled I believe, and with the constant push west (even when it comes to Downtown) this is the next available spot. Downtown needs a convenience store other than Cubby's.


I believe Panda House is still open.  Ironically enough, I believe there used to be a Walgreen's right across the street from that spot in the old Park Fair.

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Postby Alec12321 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:08 pm

OmahaRoyals wrote:
Alec12321 wrote:Off topic a bit, but I remember reading about Walgreens or CVS being interested in opening a location downtown. I was wondering if the restaurant on the SE corner of 16th & Farnam is in business? Because that would be a great place to have visibility from the Gene Leahey Mall and The strip of stores that Jimmy Johns is located in and could be a very "easy" way to get foot traffic onto, or at least near, 16th St. That would then open the possibilities for a department store down the road. Just a thought but if that place is empty, I'd be surprised if we didn't see at least something new open there. Each store front leading up to that along Farnam is filled I believe, and with the constant push west (even when it comes to Downtown) this is the next available spot. Downtown needs a convenience store other than Cubby's.


I believe Panda House is still open.  Ironically enough, I believe there used to be a Walgreen's right across the street from that spot in the old Park Fair.


Weird... Can't say I've ever seen anyone eating there. Maybe I just don't pay enough attention. But, according to one of my coworkers who worked downtown when he was younger, he remembered it to be across the street from the Brandeis food court. I don't know if that's what you were talking about, and I can't even visualize where that would be.
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Postby nativeomahan » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:49 am

Hyok Kim wrote:
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:Thenewguy, I'm not trying to defend the OWH, but those quotes were from WOWT's web site.

My girlfriend and I have been remarking SO much lately how utterly absurd it is that there is no Target east of 72nd St. in Omaha, let alone Downtown on in west CB.

Seriously, Target would do SO WELL Downtown, and it's just the type of retail that will open the floodgates to both new residents, and additional retailers.

Look at how ridiculous this map is:
Image

There is no Target store anywhere near the most densely populated districts of the metro area. And I'm just using Target as ONE example of the type of retail that is inexplicably absent from Omaha's core.


Problem is the bottleneck of finding parking spaces.


They just located a new multi level Target in downtown Portland.  They also have Macy's, Nordstroms, a cinema multiplex, Tiffany's, and many other mid and high level retailers.  Unfortunately downtown Omaha will never in anyone's lifetime develop to be even close to what Portland is today.

Linkin5
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Postby Linkin5 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:11 pm

Hyok Kim wrote:
guitarguy wrote:Would be an interesting study to find out what has always made Omaha more of a family oriented city than a city that aggressively values urban living?


I don't know about 'This Family oriented city' thing.     Wasn't Omaha known as 'The babe Capital of the Mid-West' once?   With brothels in downtown, run by the city fathers themselves?

What I speculate is that people in the old days knew what Omaha was really about, and decided to create a new image for Omaha.   Like JFK said once, "The biggest enemy of the truth is the myth."

or

as they said in 'The Man who shot Liberty Valance',  "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend".

You know what, one thing that really shocked me after I started living here was how spoiled, irresponsible some children were as a group in Omaha compared to Portland.

In downtown, often there was a sign saying, "only 1 or 2 or 3 students at a time."   I didn't understand it.  I never saw such signs in Portland.   Later I found out, children here love to create trouble just for the sake of trouble.   Also, I noticed teenagers here in general do not have a very strong work ethic.   Often, teenagers as soon as they got enough money to buy stuff they want, they would quit without any notice.

Portland has a reputation as a slacker city, (undeserved I believe).   People care about what is, regardless of what others think.   Whereas here, people as a group care more about what others think of them rather than what is real and what really matters, even if it is self-contradictory.   Like some people condenming watching porn, but praising the motherhood.  or like that fella  chiding me in wasting my time replying to posts while being unaware of his wasting his time in chiding me without contributing anything.

People here are as a group more interested in being seen as smart rather than being smart.    Acting like as if they are going somewhere instead of going somewhere for real.

One example,  in Portland, people rarely dress in suit and ties, even business people in white color occupation.   Only time I see business people in suit and ties is during some very important business meetings.    Also, many ride bicycle to work, and bring the bicycles into office and hang them on the wall.

Also, children work to earn their allowances, even the children of rich.     I remember one childhood friend of my brother, whose father was a famous anchorman in Portland, working as a dishwasher/busboy during his teenage years to earn his spending money.   He didn't get it from his father (who, by the way, was a very liberal, and progressive man, didn't believe in spoiling his son).

When I attended Beaverton High School, a suburb of Portland, and solidly middle class town, I never saw one brand new car, much less brand new BMWs driven by some high school kids in West Omaha.

Over the years, I have seen so many grown ups, (men in their late 30's, or even 40's, living off the help from their parents, who are not even well-off).  In one case, a man in his late 30's with 3 children of his own was using those children as a way to get money from his single mom in her 60's, and to 'borrow' her only car so that he could get to work in comfort while his 65 years old mother was taking bus to go to her work in Omaha winter!


Still, I met some of the smartest (for real) and 'real' people I've met in my life, I met them from here.   I just wish more of Omahans are like them.


I encounter people from all around the country where I work.  If there is one thing I can tell you is that there are nice and laid back people, mean people, rich people, poor people, and crazy people EVERYWHERE.  I have a feeling you spend so much time judging things you fail to get an authentic experience.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:20 pm

iamjacobm wrote:Those are some big brushes your painting with.


Yes, I am, but do you deny the essential truth of what I am painting with?      After all, I lived here from 89 to 98, and from 99 to this day.   I lived in South O for about a year.  The rest of time in Down Town.    I worked for a living, sometimes holding 3 jobs, working 100 hours a week.   I worked for 10 different companies in Omaha. I attended metro.


I think I have earned the right to paint with some big brushes.

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Garrett
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Postby Garrett » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:25 pm

Hyok Kim wrote:
iamjacobm wrote:Those are some big brushes your painting with.


Yes, I am, but do you deny the essential truth of what I am painting with?      After all, I lived here from 89 to 98, and from 99 to this day.   I lived in South O for about a year.  The rest of time in Down Town.    I worked for a living, sometimes holding 3 jobs, working 100 hours a week.   I worked for 10 different companies in Omaha. I attended metro.


I think I have earned the right to paint with some big brushes.



No one has a right to paint with big brushes. Those are never the best nor most accurate paintings anyway.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:33 pm

Alec12321 wrote:Off topic a bit, but I remember reading about Walgreens or CVS being interested in opening a location downtown.


When did you hear about it and from whom?

Walgreens used to have a location on Parkfair, and was the last holdout and an anchor store.    

Btw.  I doubt it.   I wouldn't locate in downtown as it is.    Not enough business, especially with Patrick's already competing with Cubby's.   In fact, I am not sure whether even Patrick's is going to make it.




Alec12321 wrote: I was wondering if the restaurant on the SE corner of 16th & Farnam is in business?


You mean, NE corner?   SE is actually away from Gene Leahey Mall.




Alec12321 wrote: Because that would be a great place to have visibility from the Gene Leahey Mall and The strip of stores that Jimmy Johns is located in and could be a very "easy" way to get foot traffic onto, or at least near, 16th St. That would then open the possibilities for a department store down the road.


Please, forget about department store in downtown.   I've lived and worked in downtown around that particular area for close to 20 years.   It's a pipe dream, there is simply not enough business to even cover the overhead, not even close.  


Alec12321 wrote:
Just a thought but if that place is empty, I'd be surprised if we didn't see at least something new open there. Each store front leading up to that along Farnam is filled I believe, and with the constant push west (even when it comes to Downtown) this is the next available spot. Downtown needs a convenience store other than Cubby's.


Downtown already has Patrick's, and their prices are actually competitive with major chains, and their meat quality is actually superior, even they don't have enough business on many evenings.

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Brad
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Postby Brad » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:36 pm

I believe the plans are for some sort of pharmacy and express care clinic in the Barker Building.
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Hyok Kim
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Postby Hyok Kim » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:38 pm

OmahaRoyals wrote:I believe Panda House is still open.


Their food quality has gone downhill big time after they got rid of their Chinese kitchen staff, the real trained chefs, and the owner started posing as a chef, with the help from his minimum wage, and disposable slaves.


OmahaRoyals wrote:  Ironically enough, I believe there used to be a Walgreen's right across the street from that spot in the old Park Fair.


Yes, there was.  It was the last hold out at the ParkFair.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:45 pm

Alec12321 wrote:
Weird... Can't say I've ever seen anyone eating there. Maybe I just don't pay enough attention.


Hey, you missed me.    I used to go there for their Mapo Tofu, one of the best (at the time in Omaha, now probably the worst Mapo Tofu in Omaha) when they had a real chef.

But their lunch time isn't too bad.   They survive on lunch crowd, and low overhead.  (No chef in the kitchen, the owner poses as a chef.  I guess he believes 'we' all look alike.)
Last edited by Hyok Kim on Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hyok Kim
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Postby Hyok Kim » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:06 pm

nativeomahan wrote:
Hyok Kim wrote:
Problem is the bottleneck of finding parking spaces.


They just located a new multi level Target in downtown Portland.  They also have Macy's, Nordstroms, a cinema multiplex, Tiffany's, and many other mid and high level retailers.  Unfortunately downtown Omaha will never in anyone's lifetime develop to be even close to what Portland is today.


Nordstrom's, cinema multiplexes (at least two of them in downtown, one mainstream.  one mixed mainstream/arty, and at least two other arty cinemas, one being a part of Portland State University) are actually old news.   They have been there for more 10 years, Nordstrom, probably close 30 years.

They even have Saks 5th avenue (close to 20 years already), and B&O store in Pioneer place (super modern glass walled mall, right in the heart of downtown, and a major hub for the light rail, bringing shoppers efficiently), right next to pioneer square.  Now, Target is a news to me, a multi-level Target at that, must be really something special, so is Tiffany's.  


All this would have never happened without the light rail.     The parking in downtown Portland, the last time I checked, in 1998 was $200 to $300 per month.

No wonder most people, even rich people with fancy MBs, BMWs, and Lexus take light rail.

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Postby Hyok Kim » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:25 pm

Linkin5 wrote:
Hyok Kim wrote:
I encounter people from all around the country where I work.  If there is one thing I can tell you is that there are nice and laid back people, mean people, rich people, poor people, and crazy people EVERYWHERE.


...and you believe people in the middle east think and behave exactly like us here?





Linkin5 wrote:
 I have a feeling you spend so much time judging things you fail to get an authentic experience.


I just observe, based on my working with people primarily.    You see, before I came to Omaha, I had thought Omaha would have higher work ethic, more community spirit than Portland, based on that positive midwestern stereotype.

But people can change for the better.   For example, not so long ago, till 1960's, South Koreans were probably the most worthless, and arrogant and delusional people in the world.

Omahans today, despite their flaws, are far ahead of the Koreans from 1960's.    

So there is a hope.


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