16th Street Master Plan

[DTO Luv]

No you must be thinking of that other 16th St in town.

You have no frame of reference Donny.

[S33]

No you must be thinking of that other 16th St in town.

You have no frame of reference Donny.

Yeah, I don't get it. I guess I never saw that one.

[justnick]

It sounds like you're all talking about North 16th street near Chub Foods. Which would make sense. Because that's a drug filled hole.
16th by the Orpheum is kinda creepy, but it's not Cracktown USA.

[S33]

It sounds like you're all talking about North 16th street near Chub Foods. Which would make sense. Because that's a drug filled hole.
16th by the Orpheum is kinda creepy, but it's not Cracktown USA.

Yeah, I think that's the area. It's either littered with crackheads or the mentally retarded.

[RegisResident]

As someone who lives on 16th (not literally but in the Regis) there are definitely drug deals that go down between Harney and Farnam. Sometimes it's in the bus shelters, other times it is literally a drive by (someone pulls up, hands over a baggy of goodies while getting a chunk of cash- I've witnessed this a few times), and sometimes it's a very simple hand pass (witnessed many times). While it has gotten a lot better since the police stepped up their presence in the past few months, it still happens occasionally.

The police know who the drug dealers are and that is why they are watching 16th- right now it doesn't have the persistent problems that some of the other areas have and the police are trying to keep it that way. The police know the regular drug dealers by name and recognize when they move from their regular dealing area to a new area. While I don't think that someone is going to get shot because a drug deal gone bad in front of my building, it is not good for resale value and making visitors feel comfortable in the area. There is over $19 million in assessed residential property on one side of the block (most of us having a $25,000 increase in our assessed value this year alone) so those of us who are paying the taxes find any drug dealing in front of our property unacceptable.

[thenewguy]

Good evening Sir, my name is Steve. I come from a rough area. I used to be addicted to crack but now I am off it and trying to stay clean. That is why I am selling magazine subscriptions.

hahahaha

[thenewguy]

No you must be thinking of that other 16th St in town.

You have no frame of reference Donny.

....and hahaha.  Good reference.  S33: it's The Big Lebowski.  Do yourself a favor and go to walmart and just buy it.

[justnick]

....and hahaha.  Good reference.  S33: it's The Big Lebowski.  Do yourself a favor and go to walmart and just buy it.

Or don't. Seriously. Just forget you ever heard of this piece of something icky. Overrated beyond belief. Like Star Wars. Or the Beatles. Though I have been known to have less than popular opinions.

[thenewguy]

agree to disagree?

[StreetsOfOmaha]

There's a duplex on my street that I'm pretty sure is a drug house. They're right next to a nice Hispanic family and never seem to bother anybody. Of course, I wish they weren't selling and doing drugs, but if they're not harassing me or making me feel unsafe, what concern is it of mine?

No concern for a guy living there by himself but if I had kids living in that neighborhood I would call the cops any chance I got.

I live with my girlfriend in a building with several young families. The neighborhood is also full of families with young children.

[liquid]

An "edgy" photography gallery/bookstore is set to open in January 2010 just off of 16th and Harney streets. Check out the link!

http://www.when.com/omaha-ne/venues/sho ... -polyester[/url]

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Awesome. I'll look forward to checking it out. Where did you hear about this?

This is exactly the type of retail envisioned by the master plan.

[justnick]

Sounds brilliant, and love the name.

[Big E]

Uh oh.  Erotica books.  Call Rainbow and the Old Market Crusty Merchant Association.

[DTO Luv]

Good thing this isn't in the OM then. I'm glad for any place braving 16th St. but until anything can stay open there past 3 I have my doubts about any of these ventures long term.

[OmahaChef]

Work did start on the space at 1618 Harney last week.  I think it is interesting that Polyester is linked from the Todd Browning Gallery website.  Todd Browning is located in LA.

[MadScientist]

I think that they should punch 16th Street right through the lobby of the DoubleTree (something akin to the convention center in KC). That would reconnect the downtown with North Downtown.

[Brad]

I think that they should punch 16th Street right through the lobby of the DoubleTree (something akin to the convention center in KC). That would reconnect the downtown with North Downtown.

Here is a good one:

[MadScientist]

Exactly. Considering that 16th is two-way both north and south of the DT, it fits with the Master Plan of having more two-way streets. Besides, 16th goes all the way south to Spring Lake Park, and goes a long way up north.  Heck, instead of running 16th under the DT, let's just blow the sucker up and make use of all the new hotels going up!

[thenewguy]

although i think it'd be incredibly difficult/expensive to run a street through the lobby (like the convention center in KC), i think it'd be cool no less.  Why didn't they think of that in the first place?

[GetUrban]

Actually, the hotel lobby is at the second floor level, with 16th  Street ramping up to it from the south. All they would have to do is demolish the ramp and the FNB drive-thru bank under the lobby at street level, and re-work access to the hotel lobby and adjacent parking garage. True, it would still be costly though. Plus there are probably some columns in the way.

[OmahaJaysCU]

although i think it'd be incredibly difficult/expensive to run a street through the lobby (like the convention center in KC), i think it'd be cool no less.  Why didn't they think of that in the first place?

It was built like that to segregate black people from North Omaha and keep them out of downtown...seriously.

[justnick]

It was built like that to segregate black people from North Omaha and keep them out of downtown...seriously.

Wouldn't doubt it.

[nativeomahan]

It was built like that to segregate black people from North Omaha and keep them out of downtown...seriously.

I may have said this a while back in an older post, but when I was in grade school back in the 1960s the city announced plans for the Hilton (that's what it was originally) and FNB complex, coming right on the heels of the Woodmen Tower construction, and downtown Omaha was on a roll.  After years of stagnation, we finally had some grand new construction going up.  (Those two projects cost the city a huge loss in terms of our architectural heritage, but heck, I was 10 and history wasn't my favorite subject, so who cared.)  Anyway, I recall my mother and aunt and grandmother bemoaning the closure of 16th St.  They couldn't figure out why any rational city leader would do such a thing.  That was the main bus line into downtown from both north and south, and it was being severed.  (Lots of people back then didn't own cars, and bus transportation was a significant means of getting around town for shopping and whatnot.)  I don't recall them specifically saying that it was a racist or racially based decision, but remember this was back in the late 1960s and discussions had by even enlightened people like my family members didn't really veer into such areas.  But I cannot think of any civic leader from North Omaha or even South Omaha that would have supported this decision.  However, back then we elected our city council people "at large" and not by district as we do now, and the middle and upper middle class whites were in the majority, so all of the council people were white and from middle or upper middle income backgrounds.  I believe that for most of them, it was looked at as a way to reshape downtown for the better.  Jobs, a new hotel, etc.  No one bothered to consider the down side of this development, in terms of literally turning Omaha's back side to the Near North Side and its citizens.  It would have been so easy to keep 16th St. open and reconfigure the Hilton site plan, but no one had the foresight to do that, and we are stuck with what we have now.  

I would like to think that such a project, if announced today, would not fly.

[NovakOmaha]

It was built and built where it was built because of one person.  Peter Kiewit wanted it and he always got what he wanted.  He was accompanied in his wishes by Brandeis, 1st National, and the rest of the business leaders at the time.  It's the golden rule...they had the gold, they made the rules.  

There is no doubt that Kiewit did a lot of good.  The downside was that if an outsider wanted to come to Omaha the road led through Kiewit's office and if he didn't want it or didn't get whatever he wanted or they didn't want to do it his way, it wasn't going to happen.

[RegisResident]

At the next DID meeting, on January 26th, there will be a couple of 16th St. projects presented. They are:
- 16th St. Study- presented by HDR
- The Apollon Project (Lerner Building)

The DID meetings are open to the public and are held on the 16th floor of First National Bank (not the tower). It should be a pretty interesting meeting with all the stuff that will be presented about 16th St. I'm looking forward to seeing the 16th St. Study by HDR.

[thenewguy]

It feels like the city of Omaha is a huge fan of doing studies...and then nothing after that.

[ricko]

In the late 1960's. when Gene Leahy was mayor, the city came up with a master plan for downtown that virtually leveled downtown, replacing it with "super-blocks",combining 2 blocks into one-----luckily, only 2 super-blocks were completed before the city fathers ran out of steam and money.  The 2 super-blocks that survived are the 'Doubletree-FNB' block and the 'City-County-County Courthouse' block.  The next one on the list was the block containing the Woodmen Tower and the adjacent block to the east, which would have leveled the Omaha Building (Kutak-Rock), replacing it with a high rise office building.  The Leahy Mall is also a legacy of that master plan.

[nativeomahan]

We live.  We learn.  We hope so, anyway.

[nebport5]

here's a few bullet points from the latest DID meeting...


HDR presentation:

-Move buses off 16th St. to location just north of 480(as seen in downtown master plan)

-parallel parking, no diagonal

-shorten side walk width and put in center median with trees, rain gardens, and art

-"Festival lighting" hanging criss-cross above the street

-ability to close off street for large events



*The HDR guy said the 16th St plan was contingent upon relocating the buses which MAT is actively seeking through probably funding.  The plan is to have the buses relocated before the 2011 CWS.



Apollon Theater:

-Renovate and occupy the Lerner building

-multi-genre arts and entertainment hub (including music, drama, cinema, performance art and literary events)

-200-seat proscenium theatre

-Culinary restaurant and bar

-16-seat PC gaming center

-visual art gallery



* The Apollon is a 2.2 million dollar project for which they've acquired %90 percent funding.  Projected Fall 2010 opening.

[justnick]

Love the 'festival lighting' idea!
This Apollon sounds like it's going to be pretty groovy when it's finished. If they've got funding, this means it's a sure thing, right?

An "edgy" photography gallery/bookstore is set to open in January 2010 just off of 16th and Harney streets. Check out the link!

http://www.when.com/omaha-ne/venues/sho ... -polyester[/url]

It's January 2010, anything happening with this one?

[DTO Luv]

here's a few bullet points from the latest DID meeting...


HDR presentation:

-Move buses off 16th St. to location just north of 480(as seen in downtown master plan)

-parallel parking, no diagonal

I think these are both bad ideas. Say what you want about the buses but I don't think that moving them away from the core of DT is the best idea. Is there some sort of plan for the buses beyond moving them to essentially the middle of nowhere north of 480? I don't see this helping anything transportation, it seems to be more about aesthetics. I went to the 16th St. Master Plan meeting awhile back and most people's complaints about the buses were people riding the buses. Well excuse people for needing public transportation.

The buses on 16th run close to many important places that people now have convenient access to. OPPD, MUD, the courthouse, library, etc. This doesn't seem to be well thought out. You're moving all of that activity away from 16th St. which is one place that needs all the help it can get. I see this coming back and biting us in the |expletive| in the future.

Also, parallel parking on 16th? Do people just want 16th St. to be a failure? There needs to be parking in the area but they could add so more with diagonal. This is just more of what DT already has problems with. Lack of public transportation and misuse of parking. It looks like I gave up hope in this city at the right time though.

[RegisResident]

here's a few bullet points from the latest DID meeting...


HDR presentation:

-Move buses off 16th St. to location just north of 480(as seen in downtown master plan)

-parallel parking, no diagonal

I think these are both bad ideas. Say what you want about the buses but I don't think that moving them away from the core of DT is the best idea. Is there some sort of plan for the buses beyond moving them to essentially the middle of nowhere north of 480? I don't see this helping anything transportation, it seems to be more about aesthetics. I went to the 16th St. Master Plan meeting awhile back and most people's complaints about the buses were people riding the buses. Well excuse people for needing public transportation.

The buses on 16th run close to many important places that people now have convenient access to. OPPD, MUD, the courthouse, library, etc. This doesn't seem to be well thought out. You're moving all of that activity away from 16th St. which is one place that needs all the help it can get. I see this coming back and biting us in the |expletive| in the future.

Also, parallel parking on 16th? Do people just want 16th St. to be a failure? There needs to be parking in the area but they could add so more with diagonal. This is just more of what DT already has problems with. Lack of public transportation and misuse of parking. It looks like I gave up hope in this city at the right time though.

There would still be a bus stop on 16th St. and in the downtown area but it wouldn't be a hub like it is now, and there probably wouldn't be a bus stop on every corner. According to HDR, over 300 buses a day go up and down 16th and when the buses are waiting to start their next route, they idle somewhere downtown until their route starts. With the new transit center the buses won't have to move while they are waiting to start their next route- this is very similar to how the new transit centers are setup around the rest of the city. There will still be public transportation to and from 16th St., but it won't be a hub and will help ease congestion on 16th St. that is primarily caused by buses.

Parallel parking on 16th is adding some parking to a street that doesn't have any parking. According to HDR, the benefit to parallel is that you can still have a street car line whereas you can't with front-in diagonal because someone could back out and get hit by a street car. I was in some of the discussions about parking and the initial idea HDR had was reverse diagonal parking (meaning you back in diagonally so you could see oncoming traffic when you pulled out)- basically everyone at the meeting shot down the idea because people have a hard enough time parallel parking and forward diagonal parking and reverse diagonal was just a disaster waiting to happen.

I'm very excited about the Apollon Venue- it looks like it will be a very cool reuse of the Lerner building. The website for the group is http://www.apollonomaha.com. I've heard a number of things about this project and I was very excited to see that they have raised about 90% of their funding. This type of a project would fit into the 16th St. plan very well and would compliment the Orpheum very well.

[DTO Luv]

Parallel parking on 16th is adding some parking to a street that doesn't have any parking. According to HDR, the benefit to parallel is that you can still have a street car line whereas you can't with front-in diagonal because someone could back out and get hit by a street car. I was in some of the discussions about parking and the initial idea HDR had was reverse diagonal parking (meaning you back in diagonally so you could see oncoming traffic when you pulled out)- basically everyone at the meeting shot down the idea because people have a hard enough time parallel parking and forward diagonal parking and reverse diagonal was just a disaster waiting to happen.

So we need to go with a lesser plan because of of something someone could do? Things like this are just further proof that no one in this city has any idea of how to do anything urban right. It's frustrating. I hope that wasn't the sole reason (or a deciding reason) to not to diagnol parking because someone "could" run into a fantasy streetcar train. If the parallel parking was the only way to put a ST in then ok, but if someone running into a ST was their main argument against it then FAIL on them.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I definitely question pulling the bus transit hub out of the core of Downtown.

However, if we are legitimately talking about a QUALITY transit center done right, this could be great for North Downtown. As has been mentioned, obviously buses will still serve the core of Downtown.

I prefer parallel parking to diagonal parking solely from an urban design standpoint. To me, parked cars are litter on the streetscape. Having parallel parking at least keeps things sleek and in line.

I also really don't like the "festival lighting". I think it looks tacky and trashy.

I've also heard about the Apollon project. I'm very excited to see more things happen with it!

[DTO Luv]

You can't completely discount cars. Look at the Old Market it's all diagonal parking along the busiest street fronts. Parallel parking severely reduces the amount of parking options in that area. It's way better than 0 now but this just seems like a no-brainer to put in diagnol.

I have no faith in them getting a streetcar on 16th St even in the far off future so I don't think now is the best time to scrap diagonal parking in favor of a ST line that no one is even pushing for or planning for. I'm sure HDR is more knowledgable on what's going on but it seems like a bunch of different factions trying to come up with their own ideas on how to improve things and no one is on the same page.

I don't have time to go into everything but a few things about their plans seem very backwards. I can elaborate more from home later.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Look at the Old Market it's all diagonal parking along the busiest street fronts.

Right, which I think is the biggest blemish on the Old Market.  :yes:

[DTO Luv]

Well it's part of what's keeping those places in business.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Unfortunately, yes. It's the available on-street parking, in stead of foot traffic from residents and workers (and visitors who can park in garages), that is keeping those places in business.

[DTO Luv]

I work much closer to the OM than most big office buildings and there aren't nearly as many people from DT in the OM as you may think. It's kind of out of the way from most buildings (unlike 16th). Even when I've been down there you can walk around and see most spots open except from about noon to 1:30 then it clears out again until the evening.

If 16th St. had even less parking than the OM I doubt you'd be able to attract the same amount of businesses. The OM is the night time center of DT, but in the day it's 16th St. I think limiting parking in that area, even if it is an increase, isn't the best idea since a SC is so far down the road, if at all.