16th Street Master Plan

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Midwestern
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by Midwestern »

I don't know if this is even physically possible but my favorite option would be to keep the western half of the building plus the middle elevator part, but demolish the eastern part that is over 16th street. That way you keep a tall building but also reconnect 16th street.

A tunnel I think would mostly be a waste of money.

Another interesting option could be to demolish the current hotel and then build a new joint condo + hotel tower that becomes our new third tallest building. Doesn't FNB own that land on the southeast corner of 16th and Dodge? I think a new tower would look better there than where the Doubletree is.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

I don't really see this as a worthwhile project. The hotel isn't all that attractive, but it seems like a huge expense for little benefit.
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Linkin5
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by Linkin5 »

If disconnecting 16th street by building this hotel was a mistake, then tearing down a perfectly good building to correct the mistake would be a catastrophe. This just doesn't make sense.
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Busguy2010
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by Busguy2010 »

This project happened way before my time, but I could see how it could have affected 16th up to about Nicholas Street. Could it really have affected north Omaha as a whole, though? Just three blocks away is Florence Boulevard. Did Florence Boulevard become a major road only after 16th was cut off? Bus transit grew until 1980 so you couldn't really say mobility was the issue.

All in all I do view it as a mistake, just as I view disrupting our existing grid in any capacity is a mistake. I don't agree with tearing it down before its serviceable period is over though. Double Tree can renovate and upgrade however they please. I hope that period runs out sooner than later, but the city shouldn't force the issue.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by NEDodger »

Busguy2010 wrote:This project happened way before my time, but I could see how it could have affected 16th up to about Nicholas Street. Could it really have affected north Omaha as a whole, though? Just three blocks away is Florence Boulevard. Did Florence Boulevard become a major road only after 16th was cut off? Bus transit grew until 1980 so you couldn't really say mobility was the issue.

All in all I do view it as a mistake, just as I view disrupting our existing grid in any capacity is a mistake. I don't agree with tearing it down before its serviceable period is over though. Double Tree can renovate and upgrade however they please. I hope that period runs out sooner than later, but the city shouldn't force the issue.
I've heard the story too that the project was supposedly built to "block" downtown from north Omaha. However, I'm not sure how practical that is - it's literally taking one block over and one block south to get around this apparent "barrier".

This idea makes zero sense. The DoubleTree blocks access just as much as The Holland Center prevents you from traversing between Dodge and Douglas Streets. There's nothing to gain from this alteration that would be quite expensive?
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by choke »

NEDodger wrote:
Busguy2010 wrote:This project happened way before my time, but I could see how it could have affected 16th up to about Nicholas Street. Could it really have affected north Omaha as a whole, though? Just three blocks away is Florence Boulevard. Did Florence Boulevard become a major road only after 16th was cut off? Bus transit grew until 1980 so you couldn't really say mobility was the issue.

All in all I do view it as a mistake, just as I view disrupting our existing grid in any capacity is a mistake. I don't agree with tearing it down before its serviceable period is over though. Double Tree can renovate and upgrade however they please. I hope that period runs out sooner than later, but the city shouldn't force the issue.
I've heard the story too that the project was supposedly built to "block" downtown from north Omaha. However, I'm not sure how practical that is - it's literally taking one block over and one block south to get around this apparent "barrier".

This idea makes zero sense. The DoubleTree blocks access just as much as The Holland Center prevents you from traversing between Dodge and Douglas Streets. There's nothing to gain from this alteration that would be quite expensive?


You are correct. I find the Holland more of a nuisance than the Double Tree. By the time anything does happen, this topic will be buried at the very bottom of the list.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by RNcyanide »

Until the double tree closes or is aged into obsolescence, it should be left alone. Sorry, you can't implode your mistakes. Find another way to make 16th Street work. Someone floated the idea of making it like the Nicolette mall in Minneapolis. I like that idea. And a tunnel is an awful idea. Tunnels are for mountains and channels. Plus, after the hotel moves on, it would probably be an easy apartment conversion.
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GetUrban
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by GetUrban »

RNcyanide wrote:Until the double tree closes or is aged into obsolescence, it should be left alone. Sorry, you can't implode your mistakes. Find another way to make 16th Street work. Someone floated the idea of making it like the Nicolette mall in Minneapolis. I like that idea. And a tunnel is an awful idea. Tunnels are for mountains and channels. Plus, after the hotel moves on, it would probably be an easy apartment conversion.
The last major renovation of 16th Street in the 1980s or early 1990's was modeled after Nicollete Mall in MPLS. Parking was eliminated, Sidewalks widened, drive lanes narrowed to one lane north-south, and brick paving added. The nice well-designed bus shelters became hang-outs for vagrants, scaring people away. businesses along 16th street closed. That's exactly why it was just redone again recently.

Before the hotel was built blocking-off 16th street, it was a major north-south thoroughfare, acting as a retail spine from Leavenworth to Cuming. Downtown had much more of a strong North-South component along 16th. Personally, I'd love to see 16th opened back up eventually, but there are probably more important things to happen first, like making sure the Civic site and the old UP site get developed soon.

If they did open 16th back up, it wouldn't necessarily be like a "tunnel", since the current entry to the hotel is ramped-up to the second story level with a drive-in bank at street level under the hotel lobby. (edit: actually the drive through bank is east of 16th st. There's just a street-level lobby where 16th would need to go through) There are some columns that would need to be dealt with though. There have been several mistakes made with projects that close-off the street grid such as the 1st National data center and covered wagon park which closed-off 15th St north of Capitol. The civic, the Federal court house, Landmark Center closed-off 12th street between Harney & Farnam. The grid was already closed off by Campbell Soup before Holland was built. A good rule of thumb is to not eff with the grid though.
Last edited by GetUrban on Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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skinzfan23
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by skinzfan23 »

I would rather have the city focus on restoring the street grid to the ConAgra campus than this. Much more cost effective and probably much more potential as well with the Old Market in such close proximity.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by Brad »

skinzfan23 wrote:I would rather have the city focus on restoring the street grid to the ConAgra campus than this. Much more cost effective and probably much more potential as well with the Old Market in such close proximity.
I would agree to a point and think a grid system around ConAgra and the riverfront should be the priority. However I would like the city to have a plan in place for then the Double Tree is no longer viable and we don't do 15 studies before anything happens. If the Double Tree announced they were closing in August of 2024, it would be nice if demo could begin shortly after.
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GetUrban
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by GetUrban »

skinzfan23 wrote:I would rather have the city focus on restoring the street grid to the ConAgra campus than this. Much more cost effective and probably much more potential as well with the Old Market in such close proximity.
No argument with that, other than we need to multi-task to make downtown better and improve many things, possibly simultaneously, as much as money allows.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by iamjacobm »

Midwestern wrote:I don't know if this is even physically possible but my favorite option would be to keep the western half of the building plus the middle elevator part, but demolish the eastern part that is over 16th street. That way you keep a tall building but also reconnect 16th street.

A tunnel I think would mostly be a waste of money.

Another interesting option could be to demolish the current hotel and then build a new joint condo + hotel tower that becomes our new third tallest building. Doesn't FNB own that land on the southeast corner of 16th and Dodge? I think a new tower would look better there than where the Doubletree is.
In my perfect world where money wasn't an obstacle that would be the best solution. Cut the current building in half and convert the remainder into apartments. Then open up a new 300 room Double Tree in a mixed use tower on the WallStreet site. 2 floors of retail, 6 floors of parking, 10 floors of hotel, 15 floors of condos. Boom new 3rd tallest.
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PotatoeEatsFish
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by PotatoeEatsFish »

Unless Hilton agrees to build a new hotel in the place of the old one they shouldn't do this. They just renovated this hotel and we don't need to get rid of a perfectly good hotel when you can just drive a block over. I wonder if they could just cut out a hole of the hotel and put a street through there.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by guest2017 »

GetUrban wrote:
RNcyanide wrote:Until the double tree closes or is aged into obsolescence, it should be left alone. Sorry, you can't implode your mistakes. Find another way to make 16th Street work. Someone floated the idea of making it like the Nicolette mall in Minneapolis. I like that idea. And a tunnel is an awful idea. Tunnels are for mountains and channels. Plus, after the hotel moves on, it would probably be an easy apartment conversion.
The last major renovation of 16th Street in the 1980s or early 1990's was modeled after Nicollete Mall in MPLS. Parking was eliminated, Sidewalks widened, drive lanes narrowed to one lane north-south, and brick paving added. The nice well-designed bus shelters became hang-outs for vagrants, scaring people away. businesses along 16th street closed. That's exactly why it was just redone again recently.
Parkfair was 1984. My employer is handling the makeover of 16th already (and the 2030 plan was established in 2010) - I don't know why the OWH is bringing it up now. This is going to happen just as fast as covering the parking lot behind CenturyLink.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by Omaha Cowboy »

guest2017 wrote:
GetUrban wrote:
RNcyanide wrote:Until the double tree closes or is aged into obsolescence, it should be left alone. Sorry, you can't implode your mistakes. Find another way to make 16th Street work. Someone floated the idea of making it like the Nicolette mall in Minneapolis. I like that idea. And a tunnel is an awful idea. Tunnels are for mountains and channels. Plus, after the hotel moves on, it would probably be an easy apartment conversion.
The last major renovation of 16th Street in the 1980s or early 1990's was modeled after Nicollete Mall in MPLS. Parking was eliminated, Sidewalks widened, drive lanes narrowed to one lane north-south, and brick paving added. The nice well-designed bus shelters became hang-outs for vagrants, scaring people away. businesses along 16th street closed. That's exactly why it was just redone again recently.
Parkfair was 1984. My employer is handling the makeover of 16th already (and the 2030 plan was established in 2010) - I don't know why the OWH is bringing it up now. This is going to happen just as fast as covering the parking lot behind CenturyLink.
There is a mayoral election this year with the primary 1 month away..Most likely driving the reasoning for this W-H piece.. It gives the public something to ponder (as we are) and the candidates another issue to chew on...

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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by buildomaha »

What if they plowed through the bottom of the building like 17th goes under the woodmen parking garage, although I have no clue where the lobby for the hotel would end up it seems a lot easier than tunneling or demolishing the building...
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by BRoss »

buildomaha wrote:What if they plowed through the bottom of the building like 17th goes under the woodmen parking garage, although I have no clue where the lobby for the hotel would end up it seems a lot easier than tunneling or demolishing the building...
I like this idea. The lobby can move to the second floor.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by GetUrban »

HR Paperstacks wrote:
buildomaha wrote:What if they plowed through the bottom of the building like 17th goes under the woodmen parking garage, although I have no clue where the lobby for the hotel would end up it seems a lot easier than tunneling or demolishing the building...
I like this idea. The lobby can move to the second floor.
That's probably what they really mean when they say "tunnel", not a literal tunnel, but maybe an opening 3-4 stories high so you could actually see through to the other side. The lobby could simply move to the west side of 16th, like it would be in a building that wasn't built to block the street. The plaza and entry to the old FNB building would have to be reworked too.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by Athomsfere »

I'll just another voice to demolishing this building just to get 16th street through is ridiculous. I wasn't around in the 60's, 70's to see the transformation this might have had on North Downtown but, at this point it's a good building. Unless the Hilton wants to sell half the land, release it's superblock structure and build a half as wide, twice as tall replacement (~500ft! woot)
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by GetUrban »

It's a lot less rediculous than some other things that have been demolished in Omaha to make way for other not-so-good ideas. I don't think it's very likely to happen, but I would see it as a way to fix a big mistake from the past.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by Midwestern »

I'm surprised this idea is getting any publicity at all, the real way to give a huge boost to North Downtown would be to bring down the section of 480 that divides north downtown from regular downtown. Also, there's nothing of retail interest on 16th street north of doubletree for 3 whole blocks, so in that sense it doesn't make much sense to do anything at this point either.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by iamjacobm »

Apparently the funding for the rest of 16th Street rehab was cut from the City's Capital Improvement Plan.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by Coyote »

The Farnam 1600 building is getting a bar named The Green Room.
This will be run by Nathan Verzal and Andrew Mead, owners of Victory Grill Sports and Tap in CB.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by BIGO88 »

The Green Room is now open and I highly recommend it. Really cool place that will be very popular.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by ita »

Gone are the days of Omaha's downtown department stores. So what's next for 16th Street?
Cindy Gonzalez
They were the glory days of downtown Omaha commerce.

When shoppers could stroll blocks of stores with elaborate window displays and smartly dressed mannequins. When families lined up for elevator rides to see Santa on the 10th floor of the Brandeis building.

When the norm downtown was sidewalk sales, theaters and special events drawing crowds by day, night and on weekends.

Indeed, up through much of the 1960s, the South 16th Street retail spine and surrounding streets ruled as the region’s go-to place to buy everything from clothes to diamonds. People dined. They did business. They were entertained.

Today, the 16th Street corridor is but a shadow of its heyday.
This is a really good article about some of the history and possible future of 16th street. There is real concern about the bus station and jail when it comes to securing commercial tenants. Additionally, it doesn't look like City Ventures is planning for anything for Pair Fair except to keep it garages, which is disappointing. Hopefully that changes. There is a new restaurant planned for the corridor, called Cumbia, so that's a good sign.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by JDJase »

As a 16th street resident I am mostly frustrated with the abandonment of the redevelopment project halfway through. Walking through the parts that have been redeveloped just feels so much cleaner and livelier, even when there aren't many people around (is it the presence of parked cars that manages to shoo away the hobos and give the area a breath of life? I don't know) but the second you step into the undeveloped portion (north of the alley between Harney and Farnam) that is just bird-|expletive| covered bricks, no stores, no cars, lots of hobos, it's like night and day, stepping into a ghetto. Just very frustrating the city gave up on this without a peep.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by NEDodger »

Was that completely abandoned? I was wondering why that hadn't continued north as I agree that it looks much better.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by mistergutierrez »

I always wonder why whoever manages the Brandeis building does not hire someone to do some power-washing of the sidewalks from time to time.

As far as a big chunk of the residents are low income people from the the three big social housing apartments around, plus a bunch of sketchy people just hanging there, not too many businesses are going to be attracted there, it just too much of a ghetto atmosphere. Density around 16th street needs to increase in order to bring more businesses such The Green Room or Block 16th.

Finally, about the bus station, I would move it closer to the Amtrak station.
JDJase wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:13 pm As a 16th street resident I am mostly frustrated with the abandonment of the redevelopment project halfway through. Walking through the parts that have been redeveloped just feels so much cleaner and livelier, even when there aren't many people around (is it the presence of parked cars that manages to shoo away the hobos and give the area a breath of life? I don't know) but the second you step into the undeveloped portion (north of the alley between Harney and Farnam) that is just bird-|expletive| covered bricks, no stores, no cars, lots of hobos, it's like night and day, stepping into a ghetto. Just very frustrating the city gave up on this without a peep.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by jjjjhskr »

I live at the Brandeis. 16th St between Douglas and Farnam is really bad. The bricks are in horrible shape (in some spots on 16th street they’ve patched bricks with concrete - that really sends a message about how little the city cares), the trash rarely gets picked up and so many homeless people hang around (I have nothing against homeless people but I think that it’s an indicator of how bad of shape the block is in. I’m hoping that the park fair parking garage gets replaced with something having street level shops/food/bars, etc and that some incentives are created to fill in the empty storefronts on 16th.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by ita »

I am glad that it's being reported that the Doubletree/First National property and that building so many parking garages, especially in the north part of this corridor, helped kill it. Additionally, the planners and other involved in those decisions recognize the failures.

I am glad there is some focus on this corridor. It has a high potential for redevelopment/activation utilizing existing spaces, including the wide sidewalks. Like could we get some street food vendors there with carts? My favorite shwarma/gyro places in the Philippines were from food cart vendors, haha.

I like the idea of moving the bus station towards the Amtrak station, but that still leaves the DC correctional center. Maybe if the Police/Fire HQ was relocated to where the Greyhound station is, it would help alleviate some of the stigma of the jail, or does it make it worse?

Edit: I just checked and the Greyhound parcel and surface parking lot on the south side of it is owned by Douglas County.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by skinzfan23 »

JDJase wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:13 pm As a 16th street resident I am mostly frustrated with the abandonment of the redevelopment project halfway through. Walking through the parts that have been redeveloped just feels so much cleaner and livelier, even when there aren't many people around (is it the presence of parked cars that manages to shoo away the hobos and give the area a breath of life? I don't know) but the second you step into the undeveloped portion (north of the alley between Harney and Farnam) that is just bird-|expletive| covered bricks, no stores, no cars, lots of hobos, it's like night and day, stepping into a ghetto. Just very frustrating the city gave up on this without a peep.
I agree 100%, when I worked downtown about 5 years ago, I kept thinking that they were going to continue, but every year....nothing. I think that is a disgrace to the city.

As others have mentioned on the board, it is amazing how many dollars are spent rehabbing streets in west Omaha that don't really need it when areas like this could surely use it. I understand that the city is wanting it to develop organically, but thats not always the best approach especially when you start some improvements like reducing the pedestrian areas to allow for parking so that businesses could thrive, but don't carry through on the whole plan.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by jomaha9 »

jjjjhskr wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:19 pm I live at the Brandeis. 16th St between Douglas and Farnam is really bad. The bricks are in horrible shape (in some spots on 16th street they’ve patched bricks with concrete - that really sends a message about how little the city cares), the trash rarely gets picked up and so many homeless people hang around (I have nothing against homeless people but I think that it’s an indicator of how bad of shape the block is in. I’m hoping that the park fair parking garage gets replaced with something having street level shops/food/bars, etc and that some incentives are created to fill in the empty storefronts on 16th.
Agreed. I feel like the owners of the Brandeis missed on an opportunity to reinvent their food court into a modern food hall like The Switch. Something like that could drive some pedestrian traffic on 16th, especially with all the residences on this street.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by PWL73316 »

skinzfan23 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:00 pm As others have mentioned on the board, it is amazing how many dollars are spent rehabbing streets in west Omaha that don't really need it when areas like this could surely use it.
The street bond money is being used to re-pave culs-de-sac in West Omaha that are in fine shape and used by literally three families, max. It's shameful.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by Louie »

PWL73316 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:20 am
skinzfan23 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:00 pm As others have mentioned on the board, it is amazing how many dollars are spent rehabbing streets in west Omaha that don't really need it when areas like this could surely use it.
The street bond money is being used to re-pave culs-de-sac in West Omaha that are in fine shape and used by literally three families, max. It's shameful.
Is this really happening??
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by buildomaha »

Louie wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:43 pm
PWL73316 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:20 am
skinzfan23 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:00 pm As others have mentioned on the board, it is amazing how many dollars are spent rehabbing streets in west Omaha that don't really need it when areas like this could surely use it.
The street bond money is being used to re-pave culs-de-sac in West Omaha that are in fine shape and used by literally three families, max. It's shameful.
Is this really happening??
Yes. Looking at the most of projects the bond money is going toward even prioritizes some questionable roads in comparison to other west o roads that are in much worse shape.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by ByrnesViceVersa »

If Omaha was to redo the way 16th Street is now. Doing something like Denver has with their 16th Street with free bus route on the street and is walking-friendly would be perfect for spurring more development piggybacking off of the new park system that will be opening soon.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by NEDodger »

Louie wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:43 pm
PWL73316 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:20 am
skinzfan23 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:00 pm As others have mentioned on the board, it is amazing how many dollars are spent rehabbing streets in west Omaha that don't really need it when areas like this could surely use it.
The street bond money is being used to re-pave culs-de-sac in West Omaha that are in fine shape and used by literally three families, max. It's shameful.
Is this really happening??

This specific example? No.

Here's the list:
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnew ... 1c.pdf.pdf
Last edited by NEDodger on Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by ita »

NEDodger wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:48 pm
Louie wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:43 pm
PWL73316 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:20 am
skinzfan23 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:00 pm As others have mentioned on the board, it is amazing how many dollars are spent rehabbing streets in west Omaha that don't really need it when areas like this could surely use it.
The street bond money is being used to re-pave culs-de-sac in West Omaha that are in fine shape and used by literally three families, max. It's shameful.
Is this really happening??

This specific example? No.
What is happening is tens of millions of dollars being dedicated to widening streets and intersections in West Omaha, while urban Omaha gets relative pittance for capital improvements (see City's CIP being reviewed by City Council tomorrow).
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by NEDodger »

Capacity issues are always going to take precedence over a "nice-to-have" like a redo of 16th Street. I'm all for that being redone because I do think it looks better, but if I'm administering the specific street budget and it's between widening 168th between Blondo and Dodge to four lanes or trimming sidewalks along 16th Street....
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Re: 16th Street Master Plan

Post by ByrnesViceVersa »

We should redo the way 16th Street is now. Doing something like Denver has with their 16th Street with free bus route on the street and is walking-friendly would be perfect for spurring more development piggybacking off of the new park system that will be opening soon.
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