DISCUSSION: Werner Park - Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

West Omaha, Sarpy and Nebraska metro counties.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:50 am

Coyote wrote:I was just going to post this. I'm going to have to ask a friend again, but I was told the developers wanted way too much for their land... One reason they lost Alamo House back when.



Alamo got a great deal to go to their current site. The area around Cabela's had stalled and they were stinging from the loss to Gretna on the new outlets.

I agree with OmahaJaysCU. Following the rooftops is a big reason for this. They led the charge with the stadium vs following the rooftops. Long term this place will be great. The rooftops and such are arriving in force.

Glad to see they haven't just developed anything there. Great area with the lake, Werner Park, and such. The homes going in right behind the stadium are great. You are also have that development directly west of Werner (between the stadium and the lage). This area will look and feel so different in the next 5 to 10 years. Just took longer than they planned.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby omaha79 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:03 pm

choke wrote:Per Hailey Konnath / World-Herald staff writer:

Subdivision surrounding Werner Park, more than $12.8 million in debt, files for bankruptcy

A bankrupt subdivision, however, is hardly the grand vision that city and county leaders had for the land surrounding the ballpark back in 2011. Werner Park would spur a neighboring entertainment district, they hoped. There would be a movie theater, bars, restaurants and shops. Fans would have a reason to come hang out before baseball games or stick around after.

Six years passed. The fans showed up. The development didn’t. Today, the ballpark sits amid empty fields.


You know where this would of worked? Downtown Omaha. I still think to this day that Omaha got screwed by the Storm Chasers when they chose not to play downtown. Both sides are worse off than they would be if they had worked together. How stupid!!!!!!

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/subdivision-surrounding-werner-park-more-than-million-in-debt-files/article_14567f4f-32bf-51e1-9bb2-9cf4987276ef.html


I guarantee the Storm Chasers wouldn't say they are worse off then they would be had they worked together. They got a good deal from Sarpy County and the stadium they wanted. They got everything they wanted out of the deal.

The only entities who have arguably suffered here is Omaha/MECA since they don't have those extra built in dates to use the stadium (but they'd argue they don't need it anyway) and, of course, a relatively greedy developer that overvalued the value of their land surrounding the Sarpy ballpark and who are now paying the piper.

MECA didn't want to play ball with the Storm Chasers. Their stance from the start was, "You can play here or don't. We honestly don't care. If you play here, it will be on our terms. You'll take the deal we put in front of you at the rental cost we dictate. We'll keep all concessions, advertising, and parking revenue along with a cut of the gate revenue. You can build your own locker rooms and offices...at your own cost, of course. The design of the stadium overall will be whatever the NCAA and we decide. You'll have no input in that." That type of arrangement isn't workable when other cities were willing to build a stadium free of cost to lure a AAA franchise at that time.

When they took that stance, it was all she wrote...not that I think there was a workable way to shoehorn a AAA franchise into a 25k seat stadium anyway.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby choke » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:08 pm

omaha79 wrote:
choke wrote:Per Hailey Konnath / World-Herald staff writer:

Subdivision surrounding Werner Park, more than $12.8 million in debt, files for bankruptcy

A bankrupt subdivision, however, is hardly the grand vision that city and county leaders had for the land surrounding the ballpark back in 2011. Werner Park would spur a neighboring entertainment district, they hoped. There would be a movie theater, bars, restaurants and shops. Fans would have a reason to come hang out before baseball games or stick around after.

Six years passed. The fans showed up. The development didn’t. Today, the ballpark sits amid empty fields.


You know where this would of worked? Downtown Omaha. I still think to this day that Omaha got screwed by the Storm Chasers when they chose not to play downtown. Both sides are worse off than they would be if they had worked together. How stupid!!!!!!

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/subdivision-surrounding-werner-park-more-than-million-in-debt-files/article_14567f4f-32bf-51e1-9bb2-9cf4987276ef.html


I guarantee the Storm Chasers wouldn't say they are worse off then they would be had they worked together. They got a good deal from Sarpy County and the stadium they wanted. They got everything they wanted out of the deal.

The only entities who have arguably suffered here is Omaha/MECA since they don't have those extra built in dates to use the stadium (but they'd argue they don't need it anyway) and, of course, a relatively greedy developer that overvalued the value of their land surrounding the Sarpy ballpark and who are now paying the piper.

MECA didn't want to play ball with the Storm Chasers. Their stance from the start was, "You can play here or don't. We honestly don't care. If you play here, it will be on our terms. You'll take the deal we put in front of you at the rental cost we dictate. We'll keep all concessions, advertising, and parking revenue along with a cut of the gate revenue. You can build your own locker rooms and offices...at your own cost, of course. The design of the stadium overall will be whatever the NCAA and we decide. You'll have no input in that." That type of arrangement isn't workable when other cities were willing to build a stadium free of cost to lure a AAA franchise at that time.

When they took that stance, it was all she wrote...not that I think there was a workable way to shoehorn a AAA franchise into a 25k seat stadium anyway.


I disagree. I think the Storm Chasers' attendance would be better if it was downtown and they argued for free parking and only partially delivered on that argument. Personally, when I go to a ballgame, I would like to bum around the stadium with some food and beers. Not much out there but cornfields. That's why we are going to a Creighton game this weekend and not a Storm Chasers.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby jessep28 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:51 pm

Politics aside, the smaller ballpark was definitely a better fit for the Storm Chasers. They would almost never fill that giant stadium downtown, except for maybe the 4th of July game.

The family stuff they can do like the dog events makes the place more inviting.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby GRANDPASMUCKER » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:59 pm

Werner Park isn't much of a stadium. I mean its alright but not really. No big surprise to anyone but a few gullible investors that expecting that little stadium to draw much commercial growth to the area is a reach. There isn't much special about our downtown stadium except that its primarily used as a 150 million dollar ornament to decorate our downtown with. In short money was burned, tossed in the wind, and thrown into the river the day they tore down Rosenblatt and started all this. Its a FIASCO from top to bottom.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby choke » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:42 pm

GRANDPASMUCKER wrote:Werner Park isn't much of a stadium. I mean its alright but not really. No big surprise to anyone but a few gullible investors that expecting that little stadium to draw much commercial growth to the area is a reach. There isn't much special about our downtown stadium except that its primarily used as a 150 million dollar ornament to decorate our downtown with. In short money was burned, tossed in the wind, and thrown into the river the day they tore down Rosenblatt and started all this. Its a FIASCO from top to bottom.


In the middle of an effing cornfield :yes:

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby jessep28 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:21 pm

Once more people live close the stadium, the surrounding land will fill in. Developers aren't going to build a bunch of retail and commercial space that only Westmont residents will feasibly visit.
Last edited by jessep28 on Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby omaha79 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:52 pm

Most that follow Minor League Baseball consider Werner Park to be a terrific stadium. If anything, it's certainly in line with the most recent AAA ballparks that have been built in the last 10 years. Gone are the days of minor league teams building 15-20k sized ballparks. The dynamic has changed. Minor League Baseball isn't drawing those kinds of numbers anymore. Nashville, Reno, Omaha, and El Paso all built new ballparks in the Pacific Coast League in the last 10 years and none built a ballpark that seats over 10k. In the International League, Lehigh Valley, Columbus, Gwinnett, and Charlotte all built ballparks in the last 10 years and they are all in the 10k range as well. Yes, Werner Park did cut some corners on the finishes and flourishes compared to some of those ballparks due to the budget available, but it doesn't really matter. It's still an enjoyable experience and it's not "small" compared to most AAA ballparks.

20-25 years ago, cities like OKC, Memphis, Buffalo, and Indianapolis were building AAA stadiums that seated 15-20k because they saw it as their audition to eventually get a MLB team. That didn't work out for any of those cities. They all regret it now and many like Memphis and OKC have been removing seats and tarping them over.

And, with the proliferation of streaming services where you can see every game for every sport, MILB attendance will never be what it once was. Sports consumers have too many options now. That's why minor league sports no longer sell the athletic competition, but the experience.

It's a different ballgame now...and the experience of watching a AAA game at TD Ameritrade Park would be dreadful. Creighton games are brutal down there. No atmosphere whatsoever. It feels like watching a game in a mausoleum. The AAA franchise was wise to balk at that ballpark.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Omaha_corn_burner » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:30 am

omaha79 wrote:Most that follow Minor League Baseball consider Werner Park to be a terrific stadium. If anything, it's certainly in line with the most recent AAA ballparks that have been built in the last 10 years. Gone are the days of minor league teams building 15-20k sized ballparks.

It's a different ballgame now...and the experience of watching a AAA game at TD Ameritrade Park would be dreadful. Creighton games are brutal down there. No atmosphere whatsoever. It feels like watching a game in a mausoleum. The AAA franchise was wise to balk at that ballpark.

This guy gets it. Werner Park is fantastic. So much better than Rosenblatt.

I've been to many baseball stadiums, and I would say Werner Park is great. Try visiting other AAA stadiums or going to Spring Training games.

Also TD Ameritrade stadium is fantastic. It's way too big for the Stormchasers though. Great place for the CWS tournament. Omaha had to either build that or lose the CWS. Omaha decided they needed the CWS.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby jsheets » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:40 am

Not too worried overall. Werner Park is great. With North Shore, Ashbury Farms, Ashbury Creek, Granite Falls, 2 new Papio NRD lakes, and a new Catholic Church/school planned, it's just a matter of time.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Dundeemaha » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:58 am

In high school I'd go to Royals games at Rosenblatt and TD Ameritrade would have had the same dead, no crowd feeling. I've never been to a Storm Chasers game but I don't doubt that Warner Park is a much better fit for them.

I think this is just a case of creditors getting overzealous and backing a project that was 20-25 years out as if it was 5 years out. The SID will restructure its debt in bankruptcy and be ready for development in 10-15 years when the exurban sprawl fills in. The creditors who gambled on this lose doesn't seem like really anyone else does.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Fort Calhoun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:14 am

My major complaint with TD Ameritrade Park is its circular configuration of the stadium which creates too much space between the stands first and third base. As a result the people in the seats in this area are not very close to the field. This was how stadiums were designed in the "cookie-cutter" era (60s, 70s and 80s) of multi-purpose stadiums. Ever since the new stadium was built in Baltimore stadiums are now designed to bring spectators as close to the action as possible and almost all of the multi-purpose stadiums have been replaced. I do not know why Ameritrade was built using an obsolete design. Fans sit much closer to the field at Warner Park and they sat closer to the field at Rosenblatt.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:44 am

I love going to games at Werner Park, as does the rest of my family. It's perfect for Omaha and AAA. Now with the houses getting built around it the rest of the development will come. Glad they are not lowering their standards just to get things built.

TD is nice but there are still some flaws. Obviously with the orientation, they miscalculated on how dead the balls would be down there. Even the new baseballs they introduced in college with the flatter seams have not fixed the problem (helped some though). I agree with the poster who reference the amount of space between the lower bowl stands and the field. Way too much. The seats in the infield from 3rd to 1st has way too much foul territory.

TD is also way too big for MiLB. It's also way too big for Creighton. I would not be surprised to see them build and play on campus again.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby omaha79 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:52 am

Fort Calhoun wrote:My major complaint with TD Ameritrade Park is its circular configuration of the stadium which creates too much space between the stands first and third base. As a result the people in the seats in this area are not very close to the field. This was how stadiums were designed in the "cookie-cutter" era (60s, 70s and 80s) of multi-purpose stadiums. Ever since the new stadium was built in Baltimore stadiums are now designed to bring spectators as close to the action as possible and almost all of the multi-purpose stadiums have been replaced. I do not know why Ameritrade was built using an obsolete design. Fans sit much closer to the field at Warner Park and they sat closer to the field at Rosenblatt.


I agree with this. TD Ameritrade Park works for the CWS, but it's certainly not aesthetically pleasing. Your comparison to the design features of TD being similar to stadiums built in the 60's and 70's is spot on. I have no idea why the powers that be signed off on such an outdated design concept.

On other message boards, I've said for years that it feels like someone found some old blueprints laying around for Kauffman Stadium, chopped off the upper deck, redesigned the concourses a bit, and called it a day. Now, Kauffaman is a fantastic ballpark, but not based on the seating bowl itself. Kauffman's charm is in the scoreboard and fountains. Without those features, it would be just any other generic cookie cutter ballpark...which is what TD essentially is.

Again, it's a fine place for efficiently ushering in and seating 25k fans, but it's sterile. It lacks soul and character. There is nothing Omaha about it. You could literally plop that ballpark into a downtown landscape of any major city and it would have the same feel. The character of the CWS is dependent on the fans in the stands as the ballpark doesn't deliver a uniquely Omaha experience.

I've visited 23 MLB ballparks. Anyone who has visited even a handful of MLB stadiums will know what I mean. A good MLB ballpark flawlessly integrates not only the history of the team, but also the culture of the local community and feels like it fits in its urban landscape. We failed in designing something that does that here.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:01 am

It does have a Kauffman feel to it, but without the charm. Kauffman is also a little less circular. The designers of the stadium (my friend was a lead on the project) were really having to follow the NCAA's guidelines on how they wanted it done. They did not want any of the quirks that might favor rightie's or lefties or such. Wanted it to play a lot like Rosenblatt but with the different location and orientation, having the same outfield dimensions really worked against them.

For opening night of TD (NU beat CU) my family and I got to sit with HDR behind home plate. I love stadium design so I was totally geeking out.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby TitosBuritoBarn » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:01 pm

I feel like they missed an opportunity to keep some corn behind the outfield wall for a Field of Dreams effect. Granted it's not in Iowa.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby cp jay 07 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:08 pm



There have been some really dumb public pulse letters through out the years but this one is by far the dumbest and hottest takes I have ever read. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby NEDodger » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:58 pm

Yeah, that's a bad PP letter. The Storm Chasers are in a perfect place right now and couldn't be happier. I'm not sure why they would jack with a single thing right now.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby jessep28 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:19 pm

The Ricketts family doesn't even own the Iowa Cubs.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby GRANDPASMUCKER » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:49 pm

jessep28 wrote:The Ricketts family doesn't even own the Iowa Cubs.


It would take the Rickett's family bringing the Chicago Cubs to Omaha to make that stadium ever get much use before it decays and they tear it down and build the next stadium that we can't afford and don't need. I watched some of the Villanova game the other night and there could not of been 1000 people in that stadium including the teams!

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby choke » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:04 pm

NEDodger wrote:Yeah, that's a bad PP letter. The Storm Chasers are in a perfect place right now and couldn't be happier. I'm not sure why they would jack with a single thing right now.


Even Lincoln was smart enough to have an entertainment district near there sports venues. Who is going to open up a restaurant in the middle of a cornfield, only to have business when there is a baseball game? I went to a Creghton game today and ate at the Burlington League before the game. Much better than a 1/2 hour drive to the middle of nowhere. I get it, the Iowa Cubs would never be moved here. That wasn't the point. Point was the Papillion Storm Chasers should be playing downtown.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby omaha79 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:14 pm

choke wrote:
NEDodger wrote:Yeah, that's a bad PP letter. The Storm Chasers are in a perfect place right now and couldn't be happier. I'm not sure why they would jack with a single thing right now.


Even Lincoln was smart enough to have an entertainment district near there sports venues. Who is going to open up a restaurant in the middle of a cornfield, only to have business when there is a baseball game? I went to a Creghton game today and ate at the Burlington League before the game. Much better than a 1/2 hour drive to the middle of nowhere. I get it, the Iowa Cubs would never be moved here. That wasn't the point. Point was the Papillion Storm Chasers should be playing downtown.


But, from a business perspective, they really shouldn't be playing downtown. Maybe if MECA was willing to give them free rent, all of the concession revenue, dedicated locker rooms, dedicated office space, etc to the point where it didn't make business sense for MECA, it might have made sense for the Storm Chasers. Still, I don't know if all of those things would have negated the losses they absorbed by not being able to have any home games during 90% of June (which is the most lucrative month of the year for MiLB). Bottom line: TDA simply is just not a AAA park. Sure, if they played down there, it would benefit Omaha and MECA, but not the team. They made the right decision for their business to move where they are.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby omaha79 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:23 pm

cp jay 07 wrote:


There have been some really dumb public pulse letters through out the years but this one is by far the dumbest and hottest takes I have ever read. Thanks for sharing.


That public pulse letter is deeply idiotic. So, he's advocating for AAA baseball to be moved downtown and "rookie league" baseball to move to Werner Park. Outside of the fact that there is no rookie ball or Single A league that would consider Omaha as part of their footprint, it would be a terrible idea to further split the pro baseball dollar between two teams in this market.

We already went down this road in 2011. MECA kicked the tires of having independent league baseball at TDA. They quickly realized that would be an absolute financial loser. A lower MILB or Indy league team in this market would be out of business in 1-2 years. No one would go.

And, he sees the Ricketts family as some sort of savior that can somehow move the Cubs AAA franchise to Omaha? Last I checked, the Storm Chasers weren't for sale and the ownership group is more than happy with its partnership with KC. KC also claims the Omaha market as its territory. So, KC would have to cede this market to the Cubs to make that even possible. They are happy with the proximity of Omaha to KC. It's not going to happen.

Just an incredibly uninformed letter on literally every level. Should have thought or done an ounce of research before he started typing.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby jessep28 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:30 pm

People complaining about Werner Park's location make it sound like they built the thing West of Springfield or something. 123rd and Highway 370 is a very busy corridor, and that area will definitely fill in with time.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby NEDodger » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:55 pm

choke wrote:
NEDodger wrote:Yeah, that's a bad PP letter. The Storm Chasers are in a perfect place right now and couldn't be happier. I'm not sure why they would jack with a single thing right now.


Even Lincoln was smart enough to have an entertainment district near there sports venues. Who is going to open up a restaurant in the middle of a cornfield, only to have business when there is a baseball game? I went to a Creghton game today and ate at the Burlington League before the game. Much better than a 1/2 hour drive to the middle of nowhere. I get it, the Iowa Cubs would never be moved here. That wasn't the point. Point was the Papillion Storm Chasers should be playing downtown.


No, they shouldn't. They're very successful where they are. I don't think they're concerned because "choke" on the eOmahaForums decided to instead go to a Creighton game.

I believe you're confusing the development around Werner with the Storm Chasers themselves.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby NovakOmaha » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:35 pm

Ever been to a royals or chiefs game? Not exactly a ton of options. Ever heard of tailgating?
Just saying.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby choke » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

NEDodger wrote:
choke wrote:
NEDodger wrote:Yeah, that's a bad PP letter. The Storm Chasers are in a perfect place right now and couldn't be happier. I'm not sure why they would jack with a single thing right now.


Even Lincoln was smart enough to have an entertainment district near there sports venues. Who is going to open up a restaurant in the middle of a cornfield, only to have business when there is a baseball game? I went to a Creghton game today and ate at the Burlington League before the game. Much better than a 1/2 hour drive to the middle of nowhere. I get it, the Iowa Cubs would never be moved here. That wasn't the point. Point was the Papillion Storm Chasers should be playing downtown.


No, they shouldn't. They're very successful where they are. I don't think they're concerned because "choke" on the eOmahaForums decided to instead go to a Creighton game.

I believe you're confusing the development around Werner with the Storm Chasers themselves.


I concede that TD is too big for the Storm Chasers. But I go to Husker, Creighton and UNO games and when we eat beforehand, there are plenty of restaurants and bars filled with people wearing the team attire. I see zero of this with the Storm Chasers. I think they had a chance to become more intimate with the fan base by locating in the heart of the city. And I am not confusing the surrounding development with the organization. I still think they would be more successful downtown. I also worked at Werner Park for a couple of seasons and heard plenty of people |expletive| about the place, so it isn't Nirvana to everybody.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby omaha79 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:07 pm

jessep28 wrote:People complaining about Werner Park's location make it sound like they built the thing West of Springfield or something. 123rd and Highway 370 is a very busy corridor, and that area will definitely fill in with time.


Yes, and it's a 20-25 minute drive to most parts of Omaha. People in larger cities would laugh at our complaints about a 20 minute drive. I hear it the other way too, people who won't drive downtown because "it's just too far." It makes us sound like hayseeds when we complain about things like that.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby NEDodger » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:47 pm

choke wrote:
NEDodger wrote:
I believe you're confusing the development around Werner with the Storm Chasers themselves.


I concede that TD is too big for the Storm Chasers. But I go to Husker, Creighton and UNO games and when we eat beforehand, there are plenty of restaurants and bars filled with people wearing the team attire. I see zero of this with the Storm Chasers. I think they had a chance to become more intimate with the fan base by locating in the heart of the city. And I am not confusing the surrounding development with the organization. I still think they would be more successful downtown. I also worked at Werner Park for a couple of seasons and heard plenty of people |expletive| about the place, so it isn't Nirvana to everybody.


They were near downtown for decades. It failed.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby NEDodger » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:49 pm

omaha79 wrote:
jessep28 wrote:People complaining about Werner Park's location make it sound like they built the thing West of Springfield or something. 123rd and Highway 370 is a very busy corridor, and that area will definitely fill in with time.


Yes, and it's a 20-25 minute drive to most parts of Omaha. People in larger cities would laugh at our complaints about a 20 minute drive. I hear it the other way too, people who won't drive downtown because "it's just too far." It makes us sound like hayseeds when we complain about things like that.


Exactly. It takes 20-25 minutes just to park at Kaufmann.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:36 am

choke wrote:
NEDodger wrote:
choke wrote:
NEDodger wrote:Yeah, that's a bad PP letter. The Storm Chasers are in a perfect place right now and couldn't be happier. I'm not sure why they would jack with a single thing right now.


Even Lincoln was smart enough to have an entertainment district near there sports venues. Who is going to open up a restaurant in the middle of a cornfield, only to have business when there is a baseball game? I went to a Creghton game today and ate at the Burlington League before the game. Much better than a 1/2 hour drive to the middle of nowhere. I get it, the Iowa Cubs would never be moved here. That wasn't the point. Point was the Papillion Storm Chasers should be playing downtown.


No, they shouldn't. They're very successful where they are. I don't think they're concerned because "choke" on the eOmahaForums decided to instead go to a Creighton game.

I believe you're confusing the development around Werner with the Storm Chasers themselves.


I concede that TD is too big for the Storm Chasers. But I go to Husker, Creighton and UNO games and when we eat beforehand, there are plenty of restaurants and bars filled with people wearing the team attire. I see zero of this with the Storm Chasers. I think they had a chance to become more intimate with the fan base by locating in the heart of the city. And I am not confusing the surrounding development with the organization. I still think they would be more successful downtown. I also worked at Werner Park for a couple of seasons and heard plenty of people |expletive| about the place, so it isn't Nirvana to everybody.



I tell you the one I never see many people in before games is Goodnights pizza and that's even before CU basketball.

TD would have been a disaster for the Chasers. It just doesn't compare with minor league stadiums. Too big, no real amenities for the average fan or kids nothing. I think North Downtown would have been better served with a stadium built for minor league baseball. The area is dead during almost all CU baseball games, with the exception being when Nebraska brings their crowd or the one where they salute the military and give away thousands of tickets.

Greg

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:40 am

NEDodger wrote:
omaha79 wrote:
jessep28 wrote:People complaining about Werner Park's location make it sound like they built the thing West of Springfield or something. 123rd and Highway 370 is a very busy corridor, and that area will definitely fill in with time.


Yes, and it's a 20-25 minute drive to most parts of Omaha. People in larger cities would laugh at our complaints about a 20 minute drive. I hear it the other way too, people who won't drive downtown because "it's just too far." It makes us sound like hayseeds when we complain about things like that.


Exactly. It takes 20-25 minutes just to park at Kaufmann.



I live in Northwest Omaha (151st between Fort and Ida) , and it takes me just over 20 minutes to get to Werner Park. It takes me a little longer to get to TD. I even verified to on google maps, to make sure it just didn't seem longer.


Greg

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Re: DISCUSSION: Werner Park - Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby NovakOmaha » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:40 pm

I can't even begin to imagine what the "I won't drive from my west Omaha McMansion to downtown Omaha for anything but the airport" crowd would say if I told them I drove my kids to downtown Detroit for baseball, football, hockey or pretty much anything else. AND we've gone at night for some games & other events. They'd probably say I was a child abuser for putting them in such danger. It's around a half hour from our house to downtown Detroit depending on the traffic and for a basketball game at the Palace of Auburn Hills it can be over a half hour, again depending on the traffic. Hey, McMansion, it's pro sports. My kids have a ball. Never a problem inside or outside the venue.

I love it when friends from Omaha complain about driving "all the way downtown". We did it all the time when we lived there. To one friend I said "So you what, stay home your whole life?" Get out & mingle with the unwashed masses. Move to Chicago or New York & sit in traffic for an hour & consider yourself lucky.

Come on folks. Live a little. Go to a ball game in Sarpy County. Go downtown just for fun. Sure, there isn't a Subway or Runza within 20 feet of wherever you are. Rough it.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Werner Park - Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby omaha79 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:29 pm

NovakOmaha wrote:I can't even begin to imagine what the "I won't drive from my west Omaha McMansion to downtown Omaha for anything but the airport" crowd would say if I told them I drove my kids to downtown Detroit for baseball, football, hockey or pretty much anything else. AND we've gone at night for some games & other events. They'd probably say I was a child abuser for putting them in such danger. It's around a half hour from our house to downtown Detroit depending on the traffic and for a basketball game at the Palace of Auburn Hills it can be over a half hour, again depending on the traffic. Hey, McMansion, it's pro sports. My kids have a ball. Never a problem inside or outside the venue.

I love it when friends from Omaha complain about driving "all the way downtown". We did it all the time when we lived there. To one friend I said "So you what, stay home your whole life?" Get out & mingle with the unwashed masses. Move to Chicago or New York & sit in traffic for an hour & consider yourself lucky.

Come on folks. Live a little. Go to a ball game in Sarpy County. Go downtown just for fun. Sure, there isn't a Subway or Runza within 20 feet of wherever you are. Rough it.


This. so much this. great post.

I live in Sarpy. I work in midtown and find myself out in midtown and Blackstone weekly. I go to Benson. I go downtown (admittedly not as much as the other locations I've listed, but still). I visit restaurants and stores in South Omaha (where I was born and raised).

You need to get out. If you never go East of 72nd Street or won't go into Sarpy County because of some reasons you've concocted in your head, you're part of the problem that holds this city back.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Werner Park - Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby omaha79 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:37 pm

Greg S wrote:
I think North Downtown would have been better served with a stadium built for minor league baseball. The area is dead during almost all CU baseball games, with the exception being when Nebraska brings their crowd or the one where they salute the military and give away thousands of tickets.

Greg


I totally agree with this. I was so excited circa 2000 when the City of Omaha released the updated master plan that had a roughly 10k stadium to be shared by the Royals and CU. I watched as that idea mutated into TD Ameritrade Park after the NCAA got their claws into it.

Even though I live in Sarpy, I honestly sometimes wish that the original plan is what would have happened. I think it would have created more synergy downtown and been a facility that could have been better used and integrated into the community.

The CWS could have stayed at Rosenblatt which could have been nearly razed and rebuilt there. Or, some days I almost feel like they darn near could have built a CWS stadium out in the boonies. Heck, put TDA where Werner is now and you could have had parking for miles for the tailgaters, beer tents, etc. You could have maintained more of that small town state fair/carnival atmosphere that was so beloved at Rosenblatt. I know that's not what the NCAA wanted, but it would have made sense for the fans.

Just my .02. But, either way, the Royals were never going to agree to play in a 25k facility designed by the NCAA and managed by MECA where they had no say over scheduling, advertising, amenities, concessions, parking, etc.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Werner Park - Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby HskrFanMike » Thu May 11, 2017 12:53 pm

omaha79 wrote:Just my .02. But, either way, the Royals were never going to agree to play in a 25k facility designed by the NCAA and managed by MECA where they had no say over scheduling, advertising, amenities, concessions, parking, etc.

That's not entirely true: While the Royals were still going to need to vacate the premises during the CWS, they were offered control of all of the revenue outside of stadium costs. MECA released a statement in 2009 that included this:
"Shortly after taking control of the Omaha baseball stadium, MECA offered the Royals an opportunity to play at a break-even cost to MECA and the city.

The Royals were not asked to pay any construction costs of the new downtown stadium, only the per-game operating costs of the facility. The Royals would have kept ticket revenue, advertising revenue and profits from concessions."


Granted, the "per-game operating costs" of a 24k stadium downtown are greater than a 6500 seat stadium in rural Sarpy County, and the aesthetics of 15k empty seats aren't what Martie Cordaro was advocating...but it sounds like everything other than clearing out for the CWS was on the table for the Royals.

(Here's a link to my blog from 2009 with the quote: I'm not sure there's another source still around from that timeframe. http://huskermike.blogspot.com/2009/03/ ... -meca.html )
Blog:  http://huskermike.blogspot.com

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Re: DISCUSSION: Werner Park - Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Tue May 16, 2017 9:44 am

For MECA I think they did make about as good an offer as they could to the Chasers. Unfortunately the whole thing, MECA, Stadium design, etc still would have been the worst in MiLB.

For being offered control, I have to question if that would have included the club area? I got our companies 4 club tickets for the CU vs Wichita State game. It was rained out. CU told fans that they could be used at any future CU game, unless you had Club Seats. You had to use those the next night for the make up game. I contacted CU because we could only use 2 of the 4 on that Wednesday. They told me I had no choice because MECA controls the Club Level and those tickets. MECA would not budge. I assume this would have been the same for the Chasers?

So many problems with the stadium too. Obviously obnoxiously too big for MiLB. No permanent store for the Chasers to use year round. It was not set up to accommodate corporate events at games. I also wonder if there was enough office space for them to house their full staff there and would they have had to vacate for the NCAA like they did at the 'blatt.

A big one would have been could the Chasers use the stadium for other events or was that a MECA thing. I'm thinking of how the Chasers have partnered with UNO, Bellevue U, and high schools to host games (though the stadium size probably stops that anyway). Also the state tournament. Not to mention non baseball events like Centris Movie Night, CHI Super Heroes Day, the ALS Walk, Craft Brew fest and others.


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Re: DISCUSSION: Werner Park - Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:20 am

Shatel on the Chasers being able to play at home during CWS:

http://www.omaha.com/sports/shatel-stor ... e7b7f.html



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Re: DISCUSSION: Werner Park - Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby WBR_Tom » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:46 am

Greg S wrote:Shatel on the Chasers being able to play at home during CWS:

http://www.omaha.com/sports/shatel-stor ... e7b7f.html

Greg


Good article from Shatel that brings up a point that often gets overlooked in favor of other factors like control of concessions, size of ballpark, storefront, office space, etc. -- having to go on the road for three weeks in June is a really big deal. That's generally the highest attendance month for most MiLB teams: school is out but vacations haven't started for a lot of families yet. And they were gone virtually the entire time, every single year.

And it didn't just affect the Chasers; the entire PCL schedule routinely got messed up by having to accommodate a team playing all those road games bunched together. It meant more road games for other teams in April, May, July or August every year because of extra home games in June -- or to avoid that, a three-game homestand with Omaha sandwiched between road trips instead of a longer homestand, meaning more travel.

The KC Royals weren't thrilled with it, either; if they needed to send someone down for a rehab stint in June, as they did with Danny Duffy over the weekend, they had to send them to their AA team if they wanted them to stay close geographically to KC, or send them to a road game potentially halfway across the country if they preferred to do it at AAA.


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