The Crossroads (72 & Dodge)

[joeglow]

Isn't corporate welfare bad?

[Big E]

Never argued otherwise.

From the POV of the school districts, though, what do they think they're accomplishing here?

[Greg S]

Is it this bill:

TIF loss could put crimp in growth

A city tax incentive that has helped shape Omaha's skyline, boost major employers and develop popular shopping districts would be slowed, if not shut down, in the eastern part of the city under a legislative proposal.

That has to be it.  By the looks of it this would be a really bad thing for the future of Omaha, Lincoln and any city trying to progress itself.

Nope, they've already been approved for this.  This would only impact developments that have not been approved yet.

Greg

Like the Shamrock Development...

Exactly.  Crossroads has already been approved, this could impact all the ones going forward that have not been approved yet.

Greg

[StreetsOfOmaha]

The logic is definitely flawed. The point of TIF is that the assessed value of the property (and therefore the property tax) stays the same for several years while the increment of increased value is used to pay for aspects of the development.

If their aim is to cap TIF, they'll only be preventing economic development, not securing more tax revenue. The tax revenue will stay the same. Again, to get TIF the developer must show that he/she would not have developed the project without TIF.

I just don't get what the point of the bill is, and to be honest, I don't think State Senator Abbie Cornett does either.

[Omaha_Gabe]

TIF benefits defended

By Paul Hammel
WORLD-HERALD BUREAU

http://www.omaha.com/article/20120125/N ... s-defended

LINCOLN — An effort to water down cities' power to grant generous property-tax breaks to redevelopment projects appears headed for a watering down itself.
That was evident Tuesday after a string of representatives from municipalities and chambers of commerce across the state, including Omaha, argued against changes in the state's current laws governing tax-increment financing, or TIF.
Over and over, they told a state legislative committee that TIF has allowed cities large and small to attract dozens of new businesses and thousands of new jobs and to redevelop undesirable, blighted properties. Those benefits, they said, outweigh the property tax breaks for such projects that last up to 15 years.
"The old saying is, 'If it's not broke, don't fix it,'" said Ken Bunger, a former deputy Omaha city attorney who helped write the original TIF laws.

After the hearing before the Legislature's Urban Affairs Committee, State Sen. Abbie Cornett of Bellevue said she plans to amend her proposal, Legislative Bill 918, to focus more squarely on improving communications between taxing entities before a TIF project is approved.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I'm glad Cornett is getting her |expletive| handed to her.

[Coyote]

New TIF bill could have big effect in N. Platte

North Platte Chamber of Commerce President Dan Mauk said that could hinder TIF use in North Platte, and most certainly would hinder TIF use in smaller cities. The definition of "substandard and blighted" land has also come under scrutiny from critics of TIF, and a proposed constitutional amendment introduced by Omaha Senator Heath Mello would change that language to "property in need of rehabilitation or redevelopment." That would most likely stop communities from using TIF on fields.

So - what are the benefits of this bill?

[Ben]

New TIF bill could have big effect in N. Platte

North Platte Chamber of Commerce President Dan Mauk said that could hinder TIF use in North Platte, and most certainly would hinder TIF use in smaller cities. The definition of "substandard and blighted" land has also come under scrutiny from critics of TIF, and a proposed constitutional amendment introduced by Omaha Senator Heath Mello would change that language to "property in need of rehabilitation or redevelopment." That would most likely stop communities from using TIF on fields.

So - what are the benefits of this bill?

I'm all for the use of TIF, but I think the main argument against it is that the local school district (and govt) don't see the tax base increase for 10-15 years, due to the tax rebates back to the developer.  So, in a time where school districts are scraping for all available money, this type of tax incentive essentially locks them out of any increased valuations on TIF financed properties.  Not necessarily a problem if TIF financed properties are a small portion of total tax base, but it can become a huge issue if it is too widely used.  I believe that the debate that spurred this bill was the original area slated to be "blighted" for the Crossroads redevelopment area.  It originally encompassed something like 20% of all of Westide School District's commercial tax base.

[GetUrban]

New TIF bill could have big effect in N. Platte

North Platte Chamber of Commerce President Dan Mauk said that could hinder TIF use in North Platte, and most certainly would hinder TIF use in smaller cities. The definition of "substandard and blighted" land has also come under scrutiny from critics of TIF, and a proposed constitutional amendment introduced by Omaha Senator Heath Mello would change that language to "property in need of rehabilitation or redevelopment." That would most likely stop communities from using TIF on fields.

So - what are the benefits of this bill?

I'm all for the use of TIF, but I think the main argument against it is that the local school district (and govt) don't see the tax base increase for 10-15 years, due to the tax rebates back to the developer.  So, in a time where school districts are scraping for all available money, this type of tax incentive essentially locks them out of any increased valuations on TIF financed properties.  Not necessarily a problem if TIF financed properties are a small portion of total tax base, but it can become a huge issue if it is too widely used.  I believe that the debate that spurred this bill was the original area slated to be "blighted" for the Crossroads redevelopment area.  It originally encompassed something like 20% of all of Westide School District's commercial tax base.

I agree overuse of TIF financing is a potential danger, but many large new developments would never happen in the first place without TIF. So the tax base would continue to erode even further without it. The idea is the value of property in adjacent communities around the developments should increase enough to stop the decay of the tax base.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

the main argument against it is that the local school district (and govt) don't see the tax base increase for 10-15 years, due to the tax rebates back to the developer.

But, in theory, the tax base would not increase (i.e. there would be no development in the first place) without TIF.

And round and round we go.

That's why the argument against TIF is pretty much ridiculous.

[Greg S]

I think TIF's are great, as long as they are used properly.  Not every development needs them or would not be built without them.  It obviously was needed at Crossroads.  I did listen to the Grow Omaha show on 1/21 and it kind of sounded like we are still possibly a year to two away from big work at Crossroads?  Did anybody else hear that?

Greg

[thenewguy]

I'm not generally one to post rumors, but this would be big news (even though we've heard it before) and i figured i'd throw it out there if what i was told is true.

i was talking to someone that works at a law firm downtown that represents some corporate clients, and i had made mention of how they must be enjoying having TD Ameritrade and CLink near by to entertain visitors from out of town (small talk).  I had said how i thought it was a good thing about the outdoor hockey, music, baseball, etc, and he said, "wait until you see what they have in store for crossroads."  Naturally it perked my interest, so i asked what specifically he was talking about.  

He pre-empted it with 'well this isn't going to be officially announced for a couple months because they are still working out the details' but that macy's and nordstroms have signed on for this development at crossroads.  Also said that REI (outdoor sporting goods store) was coming and that target would be maintained as an anchor.  I asked him about sears remaining as an anchor, and he said that it was going to be gone after this project.  He said that with the financial issues they are having and it generally not fitting in, that they weren't going to stay.  It is expected to look completely different (obviously) and that macy's/nordstroms wanted to have a location together and that it was a good fit for them.  There were a few other stores named by i honestly don't remember what because they also are nothing that is from here and weren't the meat and potatoes of the development.

As a side-and-final note, i made a mention of of how long we have had macy's commercials here and if we were some sort of test market and he said there was originally supposed to have been a deal inked a few years ago, but conditions weren't right until now (again).  

I guess we'll see if it actually happens or if he just made a liar out of me.

[BRoss]

Sweet! It sounds like this could really revive Crossroads.

[iamjacobm]

Macy's ehh.  Nordstrom's and REI are really big gets though.

[Dusty]

I'm glad Crossroads is getting redone, but I'm still not seeing any WOW factor. It just seems like a bunch of retail chain stores built in a suburban development. The drawings of make me think of village point with a target next to it. Can I say YUCK!

72nd and Dodge is one the busiest intersection in town. It should have lots of density. We should be putting the buildings close the sidewalk and building up! Instead, we see a development that is setback and restaurants randomly placed in the parking lot. This is the cookie cutter model for suburban shopping centers!

Instead of spending all this time trying to snag big chain stores, we should focus on a design that the citizens want first. Work more like Aksarben Village where you build the concept first and slowly build and fill in sections at a time. Personally, I would much rather see local businesses fill in retails bays instead of the chains stores. Omaha has a large number of small businesses here, but they are dwindling because this infatuation of "more big chains equals big city acceptance."

[Dusty]

I hope Sears gets torn down. Plus, we should be working with Best Buy, Toys R Us, etc about redevelopment options. Essentially, we need to level everything to 76th st.

Plus, I hope they save the double tents over the food court area. It doesn't have to be in this development.

Possible uses for it:
1. It could be used as a ceiling for an outdoor amphitheater
2. Install lights for visual shows like Fremont Street Experience in Las Vegas.
3. Used over the farnam or dodge st bridge crossing I-480. We need something to connect downtown and midtown crossing.

I say option 2 and 3 together!

[iamjacobm]

Really?  I see some pretty new concepts for the city.

A new city library will be part of the development right in the middle of all the shops.
Apartments built on top of the former Dillard's building.
A transit center moved to the site.

Along with new to market retail which will make this a really important regional destination right in the heart of the city.

[S33]

Lol - I don't think any more Omaha developments need to be watered down with Best Buy and Toy "R" Us. University village seems to have a bit loftier goals than mirroring 132nd and L or Lake Manawa.

[Stargazer]

I predict it just becomes another 'lifestyle' center, no extraordinary tenants... oh, and the 'tents' end up in the landfill.

[nebport5]

I predict it just becomes another 'lifestyle' center, no extraordinary tenants... oh, and the 'tents' end up in the landfill.

[Greg S]

The one flaw in the law firm guy is that Macy's is not running commercials here locally, nor have they in the past.  I think that's where a lot of the Macy's rumors have come from.  Those are national commercials, they are not being targeted to the Omaha market.

Greg

[S33]

The one flaw in the law firm guy is that Macy's is not running commercials here locally, nor have they in the past.  I think that's where a lot of the Macy's rumors have come from.  Those are national commercials, they are not being targeted to the Omaha market.

Greg

[youtube][/youtube]

[thenewguy]

The one flaw in the law firm guy is that Macy's is not running commercials here locally, nor have they in the past.  I think that's where a lot of the Macy's rumors have come from.  Those are national commercials, they are not being targeted to the Omaha market.

Greg

sorry, i should have been more specific.  my mention of the national ads to him and including it in my story was simply the seguay in the conversation that led him to tell me their aspirations to build here a while ago.  not that the ads were indicative of their attempts to guage popularity of their stores here that would ultimately decide their fate in the omaha market.  

they pay people to study and decide that without public consent :p

[Coyote]

Tax breaks could bring Nordstrom, Macy's to Crossroads Mall

That was the message delivered to a panel of state senators Monday during testimony on a last-minute proposal to provide "turnback" sales tax incentives — like those used to build Omaha's Qwest Center — to redevelopment projects such as Crossroads and the Nebraska Crossing outlet mall at Gretna.

[nativeomahan]

It sounds like the redevelopment of Crossroads is still far up in the air.  I doubt that any major new tax abatement plan will get out of the Unicameral this spring.

[Dusty]

It's kind of funny how they keep pushing for Nordstroms. In the next breath, they say the development will be designed for college students.

Hmmm...last time I checked college students tend to be poor and won't have the money to shop at Nordstroms.

It's obvious the developers are clueless about what young professionals and students want. They want to build a shopping district that has an outlet mall vibe. This may be a great pull for middle aged-women. But slapping university in the title doesn't make it hip or appealing for young people.

As a young professional, I want to see an entertainment district. Something like Power and Lights district in KC.

[iamjacobm]

I think the concept is fantastic.  Lets make some assumptions based on what we have heard might happen.

Nordstrom, REI, Macy's Target anchors is a pretty good shopping destination.  No matter what you think about Macy's being nothing more than Dillards people will drive past Westroads and Village Pointe to go to Macys.  Nordstroms and REI speak for themselves, regional draws right there.

Apartments above Dillards.  I know they mentioned 500 beds, but that seems like a lot.

New city library in the main drag of the development, pretty cool addition.  Transit center moving from 76th to here.

Throw in an "upscale" bowling alley and your average mall filler retail and maybe a handful of new to market chain restaurants.  If your lucky the city's 2nd locations for Apple and Trader Joe's end up in the area.

That would be a heck of a development.  Obviously we don't even know if they will turn dirt on this place let alone do all the things they have mentioned in articles.

The one thing I have thought was bad from day one is the name.  "University Village" just doesn't do it for me.  I get that they want to rebrand from Crossroads since that name probably has a stigma now, but University Village isn't going to give you any special kind of "brand" for the city IMO.

[Seth]

The one thing I have thought was bad from day one is the name.  "University Village" just doesn't do it for me.  I get that they want to rebrand from Crossroads since that name probably has a stigma now, but University Village isn't going to give you any special kind of "brand" for the city IMO.

I agree.  "University Village" just sounds to me like a mediocre student apartment complex.

[nebport5]

It's kind of funny how they keep pushing for Nordstroms. In the next breath, they say the development will be designed for college students.

Hmmm...last time I checked college students tend to be poor and won't have the money to shop at Nordstroms.

It's obvious the developers are clueless about what young professionals and students want.

Disagree.  How many poor colleges students do you see running around in $200 Diesel Jeans and etc?  Still, you don't really think the developers are banking entirely on college students!?  Yes, it is a stupid name.  I think we have enough "Villages".

[nativeomahan]

I have said it before.  Whatever they build, they ought to build it right up to the corner of 72nd and Dodge.  Put in a movie theatre, bars and restaurants.  Omaha could have its own version of P&L and Time's Square.  Make the corner come alive!

[MadMartin8]

Clearly all developments should have a "Village" title.

I myself can't wait for Shamrock Village, and The Village at the Yard to come to fruition. Also Playland Village Park in Council Bluffs!

[Linkin5]

First National Village Tower.  It's got a nice ring to it.

[Omahanerd]

Regardless of the awful name, when can we see any progression on this project, or is it still pretty up in the air. Thanks!

-Nerd

[MadMartin8]

First National Village Tower.  It's got a nice ring to it.

And TD Village Ameritrade Park.

[Bugeater]

While we're on the subject (or off it actually), I think "City of Omaha" sounds rather bland as well, we should start referring to it as the "Village of Omaha".

[MadMartin8]

While we're on the subject (or off it actually), I think "City of Omaha" sounds rather bland as well, we should start referring to it as the "Village of Omaha".

City of Omaha Village Towne Pointe?

[Seth]

I have said it before.  Whatever they build, they ought to build it right up to the corner of 72nd and Dodge.  Put in a movie theatre, bars and restaurants.  Omaha could have its own version of P&L and Time's Square.  Make the corner come alive!

As others have said before, that's not going to happen unless Target is willing to give up their lucrative location and parking lot.  I don't see that happening.

[FrontlineOmaha]

While we're on the subject (or off it actually), I think "City of Omaha" sounds rather bland as well, we should start referring to it as the "Village of Omaha".

City of Omaha Village Towne Pointe?

...center (or Centere as long as were adding Es to everything)

[BRoss]

While we're on the subject (or off it actually), I think "City of Omaha" sounds rather bland as well, we should start referring to it as the "Village of Omaha".

City of Omaha Village Towne Pointe?

...center (or Centere as long as were adding Es to everything)

It's actually "Centre".

[Big E]

This threade is the Epicentre of Sucke.