Omaha Forums

nebugeater wrote:

RockHarbor wrote:I am so tired of that 60's Sears. I am so tired of that vacant former Best Buy & Bag N Save. I am so tired of those sad, sagggy circus funnels. I'm so tired of that lonely Barnes & Noble, attached to dark, cobwebby mall that probably houses Casper & those three mean ghosts. I am so tired of looking at that mall and asking "What happened?" Ugh... Just take a wrecking ball to it all...

If you're so tired get some sleep.

That's a different kind of tired.

Will be interesting if they actually come through this time. I did not see anywhere, where they may have received any additional incentives (and they shouldn't).

Greg

This is a power center with some outlet restaurants on Dodge and some office and apartments along Cass.

Greg S wrote:Will be interesting if they actually come through this time. I did not see anywhere, where they may have received any additional incentives (and they shouldn't).

Greg

Why not it's just another rich guy getting richer at the expense of the taxpayer, it's the American way.

On the naming topic, we should really forget about the Crossroads name. Not only is it terrible but the company who ran the mall has a mall in Fort Dodge, Iowa with the same exact name and logo.

MTO wrote:Love the mountains.

that's hilarious! !

PotatoeEatsFish wrote:

MTO wrote:One week Mr Yates, choose wisely.

Watch as nothing happens.

Per KETV Channel 7 Staff Report:

Developers submit newest plan to transform Crossroads Mall property

http://www.ketv.com/article/developers- ... y/10285489

I do really like it. It seems really sharp & bold (but not too much or too bold, thankfully) to me. I think it will look really nice. (I'm trying to picture what it will look like coming over the hill around 67th & Dodge and looking westward down Dodge. I bet it will be dramatic.) Sometimes I think: Are we gonna nitpick any plan they submit? Sometimes I wonder: If they submit the perfect plan, will we even recognize it? I think as long as it looks aesthetically nice, its stylish, its not "retail heavy", and it brings some urban density to the area, and it is lit-up at night, people will like it and accept it just fine. People often leave sleepy suburbia to head into the city to see & feel urban density and things w/ height lit up at night. I think Omaha is getting large enough that we should start experiencing that somewhat starting at 72nd.

Crossroads Part II: The Complete Boondoggle:

Per Roseann Moring / World-Herald staff writer:

New plan for Crossroads Mall calls for more city incentives, which Stothert says she didn't agree to

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/new-pla ... 421cc.html

This is getting down right comical. Here I thought the rigmarole surrounding the Capitol District was a hoot and a half, this takes the cake.

Wow, that Crossroads slide show (on this latest article) is something to see. I've seen that 1955 bowling alley picture before, and it just looks like Omaha is in the dust bowl. I don't get why it looks so barren, like just open & grassy prairie seen in 1800's shots. Where's the farms & crops? The Crossroads Plan: Sometimes I wish that Target & garage wasn't there. Not having a clean slate to design on always makes it challenging, and sometimes the entire plan revolves around the solid structures already present, resulting in a "second best" plan. I also cringe at a large parking lot at the corner of 72nd & Dodge. Back when Crossroads was built, it was a suburban shopping center on the edge -- just like Eagle Run was when built in the early 90's. So, that parking lot leading up to a street corner is expected. Now, we have a more designer urban mindset, and that parking lot prevents designer buildings being snug w/ the corner. (Why can't we put buildings on Target's parking lot, and make Target shoppers park in the garage? In inner city/suburb tight retail developments in Denver, Minneapolis, and Kansas City, a Target is often double-decker w/ garage parking. Now, that Target is not ever gonna be a double-decker one, but still... That single story Target and parking lot belong where Lowes and Hobby Lobby sit, or out by Costco. I'm just so irritated the Target Corporation of MINNEAPOLIS stifles Omaha's urban development & sophistication, when their own hometown is not lacking any. Practically rolling my eyes here. As usual, there's some strange kink to work around here in Omaha...)

Here are some of the details from the latest article:

A few more details on the proposal: Total for all 4 phases would be $514 Million (although they are asking for a whopping $118 Million in city incentives)

From the World Herald:

Proposed timeline for Crossroads Mall redevelopment

July 10: TIF submittal

Sept. 6: Planning Board approval

Oct. 24: City Council approval

4th quarter 2017: Begin demolition

January 2018: City Council approval of development agreement

4th quarter 2018: Buildings in Phase I complete

April 4, 2019: Grand opening of Phase I

2020: Begin construction of Phase II

2021: Complete Phase II

2022: Begin Phase III, Phase IV

2023: Complete Phase IV

2024: Complete Phase III

***

Four phases

Phase I: 230,000 square feet of retail space, 10,000 square feet of office space, 360-unit apartment complex, 12,000-square-foot health club

Phase II: 59,000 square feet of retail/entertainment space, 210,000 square feet of office space, another 252,000 square feet of apartments

Phase III: 215,000 square feet of office space, 200-suite boutique hotel

Phase IV: 36,000 square feet of retail space, 478,000 square feet of office space and another 200-suite boutique hotel

Amazing. He spends money on new proposals, doubles the tif(?), ups the cost, and then conveniently leaves out part of the application. How did he get Nebraska Crossing done? Back in the fall he claimed to have signed leases. At this rate the alleged leases will run out before occupancy. Oh, and financing? Don't you worry about that Mayor. We have that all lined up. Just waiting for a bank to be dumb enough to say ok. No problem. Don't even need anything about money in the agreement. We got this. Yours truly, the Barney Fife Realty Company.

wow....

Are two hotels actually necessary?

Alright, this is why some people hate TIF, jackasses like this that try to bilk the city for as much as they can. I sincerely hope Stothert tells him to get lost asking for over $100 million in city incentives.

Bet if it goes through he gets Phase 1 built and cancels the rest due to cost overruns.

I will need to see if I can find the amount of occupation tax that the Capitol District is expected to get to see if the incentives here are in line with that project's.

If the $118 is all TIF that would be very high compared to other projects in town, but including the new occupation tax could make it pretty much what we did for Shamrock.

This guy is a joke. Mayor Stothert needs to tell him all incentives are off the table, and you need to get out of town.

They put a lot of money in Mello's campaign. I really hope there Mayor gives him a firm no on the extras.

Greg

MadMartin8 wrote:This is getting down right comical. Here I thought the rigmarole surrounding the Capitol District was a hoot and a half, this takes the cake.

I'm thinking more along the (specific) lines of the HDR headquarters downtown debacle..

Association noted, however ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Yeah, this guy needs to go. NEXT! !

daveoma wrote:Yeah, this guy needs to go. NEXT! !

Except that he owns it so he goes when and if he feels like it. If you read that article he teases/threatens that he would be happy to sit on that property and do nothing for awhile. He claims that with the failure of all the department and mall stores in the past few years he would be better off waiting for this to clear up. The only way this guy goes is if he makes millions by doing it.

GrandpaaSmucker wrote:

daveoma wrote:Yeah, this guy needs to go. NEXT! !

Except that he owns it so he goes when and if he feels like it. If you read that article he teases/threatens that he would be happy to sit on that property and do nothing for awhile. He claims that with the failure of all the department and mall stores in the past few years he would be better off waiting for this to clear up. The only way this guy goes is if he makes millions by doing it.

Funny part is he doesn't own it...

Crossroads Mall LLC
1505 N 203rd St.

F & J Enterprises Inc
C/O Frank Krecji

Coyote wrote:Crossroads Mall LLC
1505 N 203rd St.

F & J Enterprises Inc
C/O Frank Krecji

I sorry...was referring to Yates...

One thing I will miss about Crossroads when it is bulldozed is that tall arch of smokey/bronze glass on the old Dillards store. I love seeing that from 90th & Dodge. I wish they would take those panes, and put them on Oak View's Dillard store (Which to this day, still confuses me, why there are blah cement arches there, not mirrored-glass or smoky/bronze glass. Who does that?). Lol. You all talk about politics, money, and technicalities... I always talk about aesthetics. Both are important.

What a cluttered plan, just really bad design.
Omaha needs quality urban design with a sense of place, not this scrambled mess.

Chungus wrote:What a cluttered plan, just really bad design.
Omaha needs quality urban design with a sense of place, not this scrambled mess.

Urban design in a suburban area?

FirebirdEngineer wrote:

Chungus wrote:What a cluttered plan, just really bad design.
Omaha needs quality urban design with a sense of place, not this scrambled mess.

Urban design in a suburban area?

Urban design is a term that encompasses all developed areas not just downtown as it might imply.

Chungus wrote:What a cluttered plan, just really bad design.
Omaha needs quality urban design with a sense of place, not this scrambled mess.

Couldn't agree with this more.

Take solace it’ll be years and a dozen redesigns before anything happens, if! it happens period. Whatever happened to the omaha by design efforts..

RockHarbor wrote:One thing I will miss about Crossroads when it is bulldozed is that tall arch of smokey/bronze glass on the old Dillards store. I love seeing that from 90th & Dodge. I wish they would take those panes, and put them on Oak View's Dillard store (Which to this day, still confuses me, why there are blah cement arches there, not mirrored-glass or smoky/bronze glass. Who does that?). Lol. You all talk about politics, money, and technicalities... I always talk about aesthetics. Both are important.

Was that originally a Dillard's? I don't remember if that wing was specifically built for them or not?

MTO wrote:Take solace it’ll be years and a dozen redesigns before anything happens, if! it happens period. Whatever happened to the omaha by design efforts..

Oh, it will happen. It just may be 20-50 years...

choke wrote:

RockHarbor wrote:One thing I will miss about Crossroads when it is bulldozed is that tall arch of smokey/bronze glass on the old Dillards store. I love seeing that from 90th & Dodge. I wish they would take those panes, and put them on Oak View's Dillard store (Which to this day, still confuses me, why there are blah cement arches there, not mirrored-glass or smoky/bronze glass. Who does that?). Lol. You all talk about politics, money, and technicalities... I always talk about aesthetics. Both are important.

Was that originally a Dillard's? I don't remember if that wing was specifically built for them or not?

I don't think the north wing was specifically built for Dillards, but in the original late 80's remodel, a double-story wing was designed & added to the north, anchored by a department store, which was Dillards. (Being just in 6th grade when the new Crossroads opened, and living out in suburban Millard, I didn't know anything about Crossroads, or knew it even existed before that. I just knew Westroads. I can still remember driving up 72nd w/ my family, and seeing the white funnels, and my parents saying something about the "Crossroads has been remodeled", and all of us gawking at it. Thus, I remember being excited about a new mall in Omaha. Westroads was still brown & not remodeled, Mall of the Bluffs & Oak View were not built yet.)

buildomaha wrote:

Chungus wrote:What a cluttered plan, just really bad design.
Omaha needs quality urban design with a sense of place, not this scrambled mess.

Couldn't agree with this more.

Can you both expand? What would you do differently? Are you both designers? I just feel ANY plan could be submitted, and in general, somebody is always going to say that. Remember, things can look great on paper, but be disappointing when built. Things can look blah on paper, but can be great & perfect when actually built. So, I always keep that in mind. (For example, who says you wouldn't make the same comment if the current layout of Aksarben Village was submitted, and you saw the overview of it on paper, not being able to visualize the pleasing picture we all see driving by on Center St.?) Personally, I feel like that Target stifles the creativity, and will always result in a "second best plan", rather than what could be if a clean slate to work with. But, whatever... I would rather see buildings or a parking garage replace the Target parking lot. We don't have to see the front of Target from Dodge in a dense, new urban development. (In 60's suburban Denver, Lakeland Commons in Lakeland, CO is something to examine that is similar to what they propose at Crossroads.)

RockHarbor wrote:

buildomaha wrote:

Chungus wrote:What a cluttered plan, just really bad design.
Omaha needs quality urban design with a sense of place, not this scrambled mess.

Couldn't agree with this more.

Can you both expand? What would you do differently? Are you both designers? I just feel ANY plan could be submitted, and in general, somebody is always going to say that. Remember, things can look great on paper, but be disappointing when built. Things can look blah on paper, but can be great & perfect when actually built. So, I always keep that in mind. (For example, who says you wouldn't make the same comment if the current layout of Aksarben Village was submitted, and you saw the overview of it on paper, not being able to visualize the pleasing picture we all see driving by on Center St.?) Personally, I feel like that Target stifles the creativity, and will always result in a "second best plan", rather than what could be if a clean slate to work with. But, whatever... I would rather see buildings or a parking garage replace the Target parking lot. We don't have to see the front of Target from Dodge in a dense, new urban development. (In 60's suburban Denver, Lakeland Commons in Lakeland, CO is something to examine that is similar to what they propose at Crossroads.)

I found their responses to also be odd. Seems like every approved project is heavily criticized on this forum. I thought the buildings looks very impressive. But then again, I am not a snooty urban developer or student.

Erik wrote:

RockHarbor wrote:

buildomaha wrote:

Chungus wrote:What a cluttered plan, just really bad design.
Omaha needs quality urban design with a sense of place, not this scrambled mess.

Couldn't agree with this more.

Can you both expand? What would you do differently? Are you both designers? I just feel ANY plan could be submitted, and in general, somebody is always going to say that. Remember, things can look great on paper, but be disappointing when built. Things can look blah on paper, but can be great & perfect when actually built. So, I always keep that in mind. (For example, who says you wouldn't make the same comment if the current layout of Aksarben Village was submitted, and you saw the overview of it on paper, not being able to visualize the pleasing picture we all see driving by on Center St.?) Personally, I feel like that Target stifles the creativity, and will always result in a "second best plan", rather than what could be if a clean slate to work with. But, whatever... I would rather see buildings or a parking garage replace the Target parking lot. We don't have to see the front of Target from Dodge in a dense, new urban development. (In 60's suburban Denver, Lakeland Commons in Lakeland, CO is something to examine that is similar to what they propose at Crossroads.)

I found their responses to also be odd. Seems like every approved project is heavily criticized on this forum. I thought the buildings looks very impressive. But then again, I am not a snooty urban developer or student.

Well, consider the Plaza in Kansas City - its streets are integrated into the local street grid, parking is hidden behind stores, buildings encourage access from each street they abut, you feel encouraged to get there by whatever mode of transportation best suits you. This doesn't quite do those things...

RockHarbor wrote:

choke wrote:

RockHarbor wrote:One thing I will miss about Crossroads when it is bulldozed is that tall arch of smokey/bronze glass on the old Dillards store. I love seeing that from 90th & Dodge. I wish they would take those panes, and put them on Oak View's Dillard store (Which to this day, still confuses me, why there are blah cement arches there, not mirrored-glass or smoky/bronze glass. Who does that?). Lol. You all talk about politics, money, and technicalities... I always talk about aesthetics. Both are important.

Was that originally a Dillard's? I don't remember if that wing was specifically built for them or not?

I don't think the north wing was specifically built for Dillards, but in the original late 80's remodel, a double-story wing was designed & added to the north, anchored by a department store, which was Dillards. (Being just in 6th grade when the new Crossroads opened, and living out in suburban Millard, I didn't know anything about Crossroads, or knew it even existed before that. I just knew Westroads. I can still remember driving up 72nd w/ my family, and seeing the white funnels, and my parents saying something about the "Crossroads has been remodeled", and all of us gawking at it. Thus, I remember being excited about a new mall in Omaha. Westroads was still brown & not remodeled, Mall of the Bluffs & Oak View were not built yet.)

The Dillards wing was originally built for Younkers, then Dillard bought them out, if I'm not mistaken.

Rock Harbor, I agree that the NW corner of 72nd and Dodge is a big disappointment, if it remains a parking lot. There at least needs to be something nicer at that corner, like a park or plaza, if it can't have a building right up near the street. The renderings look promising for the rest of the development though, IMO.

GetUrban wrote:

RockHarbor wrote:

choke wrote:

RockHarbor wrote:One thing I will miss about Crossroads when it is bulldozed is that tall arch of smokey/bronze glass on the old Dillards store. I love seeing that from 90th & Dodge. I wish they would take those panes, and put them on Oak View's Dillard store (Which to this day, still confuses me, why there are blah cement arches there, not mirrored-glass or smoky/bronze glass. Who does that?). Lol. You all talk about politics, money, and technicalities... I always talk about aesthetics. Both are important.

Was that originally a Dillard's? I don't remember if that wing was specifically built for them or not?

I don't think the north wing was specifically built for Dillards, but in the original late 80's remodel, a double-story wing was designed & added to the north, anchored by a department store, which was Dillards. (Being just in 6th grade when the new Crossroads opened, and living out in suburban Millard, I didn't know anything about Crossroads, or knew it even existed before that. I just knew Westroads. I can still remember driving up 72nd w/ my family, and seeing the white funnels, and my parents saying something about the "Crossroads has been remodeled", and all of us gawking at it. Thus, I remember being excited about a new mall in Omaha. Westroads was still brown & not remodeled, Mall of the Bluffs & Oak View were not built yet.)

The Dillards wing was originally built for Younkers, then Dillard bought them out, if I'm not mistaken.

Wasn't Younkers where Brandeis used to be, which is now Target?