Omaha Forums

Posted: **Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:46 pm**

Shadow Lake Towne Center (72nd and 370)

Omaha World Herald wrote: Papillion Promenade developers make intent official

Developers of the proposed Papillion Promenade shopping center at 72nd Street and Nebraska Highway 370 have filed their first application for city approval in hopes of breaking ground as soon as weather permits.

The city has fielded questions from the developers, RED Development and the Lerner Co., but the application filed late Tuesday was the first and triggers the city's official consideration of the project, Papillion Planning Director Mark Stursma said.

He said the application was filed in time to schedule a public hearing at the Feb. 23 Planning Commission meeting.

The developers are seeking approval of a preliminary plat, which mainly involves such issues as lot lines, streets, utilities and grading plans. Legal agreements for such issues as who pays for what public improvements to accommodate the center would be part of considering a final plat.

The property already has the zoning necessary for a shopping center, since a previous developer planned a mall at the site. Lerner bought the land in 2002.

RED Development spokesman John Bacon of Scottsdale, Ariz., said the company has no leases in hand but has letters of intent from some potential tenants. He said developers still plan to hold a groundbreaking ceremony and announce any signed tenants willing to go public in May.

"We have 12 projects under construction or development, and this one, though not opening until late 2006, is probably one of the most talked about among (potential) tenants," Bacon said. He said that is because of the area's population growth, income levels and lack of retail services.

In some cases, he said, retailers already have one or two stores in the Omaha area and a Sarpy County location would "finish their strategy" in the market or be the next logical place to go.

The developers are seeking a "unique combination" of large-format stores and specialty retail, Bacon said.

The company describes the project of up to 900,000 square feet as a "town center integrating a combination of home, fashion, grocery, discount and lifestyle retailing in one convenient location."

Posted: **Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:32 pm**

Great news for the metro. I'm not expecting anything too exciting from this, though.

And, what the heck is the deal with "Nebraska Highway 370"?!!!

Give the street a proper name for crying out loud!!! It needs a name! Every major thoroughfare was at one time, or still is a major highway, but it still has a street name.

Posted: **Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:59 pm**

So with ground breaking so close, does anyone have any good info about what Retail, Grocery, and Restaurants will fill in here?

My bet is that Sears moves from their Ameritrade (I mean Southroads) location. Also possible to see another Scheels (ala Village Pointe and South Pointe). For grocery I'm betting on Hy-Vee since they have no presence in Sarpy to speak of. And then the usual Bed Bath and Beyond, Best Buy, American Eagle, and DSW.

But does anyone have any real inside info? A Von Maur could be a great fit, as it has been in South Lincoln, although I would prefer something new to our market.

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:50 am**

Given Younkers is leaving Crossroads... I'd say Younkers before Sears.

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:30 pm**

I was flipping through a new atlas today, and saw this little tidbit. It is calling Hwy 370, Kate Fox Road along the Bellevue - Papillion corridor. So maybe it already has a name that nobody uses???

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:32 pm**

That's got a nice ring to it..

Posted: **Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:34 am**

Omaha World Herald wrote: Papillion Promenade gets commission nod

The Papillion Promenade shopping center is the "real deal," a spokesman for its developers told the Papillion Planning Commission Wednesday night.

Tentative financing arrangements are in place, the sanitary and improvement district is formed, bids are being advertised for public improvements and tenants should be announced in May, Dennis Hogan told commissioners.

The commission voted 7-0 to recommend that the Papillion City Council approve a preliminary plat for the center, which is scheduled for opening in 2006 at Nebraska Highway 370 and 72nd Street.

The preliminary plat primarily addresses the location of lot lines, streets and utilities. The developers, RED Development and the Lerner Co., already have the zoning needed for their "town center" type development, which Hogan likened to Omaha's Village Pointe at 168th Street and West Dodge Road.

"It's going to knock the socks off of Sarpy County," he said.

The developers are proposing up to 900,000 square feet of retail space in a pedestrian-friendly, richly landscaped layout.

The next hurdle for the project will be City Council approval of the preliminary plat.

Hogan said the plan is to have building pads completed by fall.

Posted: **Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:14 pm**

That's great news!

Although, I think it's such a joke how developers sh*t themselves and the public by talking about these "lifestyle centers" like they're these little "urban", pedestrian friendly shopping areas. They're malls. Malls. If you have to get in your car to get to a destination to go shopping, then that destination is not "pedestrian friendly". RED is good at keeping up with suburban trends. I have yet to see anything innovative from them.

Posted: **Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:29 am**

The Papillion Times has another Promenade update, and it describes the Shadow Lake housing area going up with it.
http://www.papilliontimes.com/index.php ... id=1349464

A snippet:

The Papillion Promenade project could have huge implications for the further development of Papillion as a destination center, said Denny Hogan, an attorney representing the mall's developers.

As the Promenade garnered favorable recommendations from the Papillion Planning Commission last week, Hogan said the combination of that project and the newly approved Shadow Lake residential development will have a tremendous impact on Papillion.

"I think it will have a bigger impact on Papillion and Sarpy County than Southroads," Hogan said. "This project, coupled with Shadow Lake, is probably the most dramatic thing to happen in Sarpy County in a long, long time."

How much of an understatement is the comment about Southroads :-)

Posted: **Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:17 pm**

So far all I hear is talk. Not a single spade of earth has been turned. Meanwhile, 2 miles further north, the Market Pointe Center has completed their major tenant list announcements. I still believe that Market Pointe will sap potential tenants from Papillion Promenade. This "lifestyle center" (what the heck is that, anyway? Just a fancy word for another ubiquitous mall?) has zero tenants announced in 5 years of hype (that covers 2 mall announcements for the same plot of farmland). The locals have taken a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude.

Posted: **Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:12 am**

Well, RED Development did put a semi-trailer billboard out there about a month ago, and the city council as been hearing about it at almost every meeting lately. They are waiting on final plat approval, and plan to start in the spring when weather cooperates more.

But I agree, I can't wait to see some actual development.

Also, jhuston, I noticed that their site plan has been slightly modified, so you'll want to update your papillion promenade page.
http://130.94.153.226/projects/papillio ... te_big.pdf

Posted: **Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:20 am**

Also, I think Market Pointe will complement the Promenade well. They will have different tenants with different purposes. The Promenade is not a good spot for a Wal-Mart, but Market Pointe is. I will agree that Kohl's could go to either location, but I doubt that Lowes would want to be in a mall environment. Stores like Best Buy, and AE will want to be at Promenade but not at Market Pointe, so I don't see any conflicts between the two developments.

Posted: **Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:53 pm**

jsheets wrote:Also, I think Market Pointe will complement the Promenade well. They will have different tenants with different purposes. The Promenade is not a good spot for a Wal-Mart, but Market Pointe is. I will agree that Kohl's could go to either location, but I doubt that Lowes would want to be in a mall environment. Stores like Best Buy, and AE will want to be at Promenade but not at Market Pointe, so I don't see any conflicts between the two developments.

If Super Wally World called Red and wanted to locate at PP my guess is that is where they would be building.

Yes, a grocery store will likely locate at PP. Maybe a pharmacy. I don't envision Best Buy, AE, Banana Republic, or that ilk going in. It would be great to have a Borders or Barnes & Noble locate anywhere in Sarpy County. And a few more decent restaurants. We shall just have to wait and see. And wait....

Posted: **Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:45 pm**

I disagree... I think Papillion Promenade is precisely where you'll see Sarpy County's first Best Buy, Barnes & Noble, etc... I don't know if they're ready for AE/Banana Republic/etc... quite yet... but YET Another Old Navy would probably be welcomed by most people living in this part of the metro. This is a 900,000 sq foot center... I some how don't expect RED... which has recruited some of the best retailers/restaurants to it's centers... is shooting for more local tai kwan do/pet grooming/chinese restaurant/etc type tenants. I also think the move of Best Buy to Village Pointe was more than just RED winning them away from General Growth... I think it re-positioned the market for that Sarpy presence at... surprise, surprise... another RED center.

Well shall indeed have to wait and see.

Posted: **Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:42 pm**

nativeomahan, have you been to Village Pointe or South Pointe? Then you'll realize that Papillion Promenade is going to be a MALL, not another strip mall development. We could very well find a Younkers or Von Maur type establishment going here too!

Posted: **Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:21 pm**

Well, all Village Pointe is, is a glorified strip mall ;) .

Posted: **Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:34 pm**

Degrade it all you want... but Village Pointe is something unique in the suburbs. Along one 'main street' you have a movie theatre, comedy club, nightly live music, numerous restaurants, and shopping in an inviting pedestrian friendly setting.

Be patient though Streets... perhaps one day you'll be happy too.

Posted: **Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:44 am**

I'm sorry Streets, but One Pacific Place is a lot more of a strip mall than Village Pointe :-)

Posted: **Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:00 am**

While one pacific place is a stripmall, it has retail, office, appartments, places, connected to the papio trail, and it is close to houses.

It is the definition aof a mix use development.

Posted: **Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:22 am**

It seems really odd to me though to have pedestrian friendly, pseudo-urban shopping environment located in suburbs.

It's like "we only want to pretend we're in an urban environment, we don't really want to be in one."

Posted: **Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:40 pm**

You 'give me urban living or give me death' people crack me up.

Well, I don't know what is going on in my subconscious mind to explain it ... but I enjoy walking around with my wife, doing a little shopping... before eating and going to a flick all within the same 'strip' development all the way out here at 168th and Dodge... just as much as walking around and enjoying a dinner, some street musicians, etc... before going to a symphony concert or basketball game... downtown. We do them both... along with the many other entertainment options around the metro... we enjoy all the options.

Posted: **Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:42 pm**

Thank you Jeff.

These Urban Living Patrick Henry's seem to consistently fail to mention the crime, traffic, and pollution that comes with true "urban living".

Posted: **Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:40 pm**

jsheets wrote:I'm sorry Streets, but One Pacific Place is a lot more of a strip mall than Village Pointe :-)

It's ok. I forgive you.

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:03 pm**

jsheets wrote:nativeomahan, have you been to Village Pointe or South Pointe? Then you'll realize that Papillion Promenade is going to be a MALL, not another strip mall development. We could very well find a Younkers or Von Maur type establishment going here too!

Yes, I have been to both "lifestyle centers."
You will not see Younkers or Von Maur in Papillion anytime soon. Younkers is retrenching. Von Maur is not in the expansion mood, and if they were this wouldn't be the place.

I have worked in Sarpy County and the Papillion area for nearly a quarter century. I have seen some changes in those years, to be sure, but the area is not ready for a Village Point or Pointe or whatever. There are farm fields and junky looking businesses fronting the PP sight on 3 sides. Von Maur isn't into that scene.

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:14 pm**

jhuston wrote:You 'give me urban living or give me death' people crack me up.

Well, I don't know what is going on in my subconscious mind to explain it ... but I enjoy walking around with my wife, doing a little shopping... before eating and going to a flick all within the same 'strip' development all the way out here at 168th and Dodge... just as much as walking around and enjoying a dinner, some street musicians, etc... before going to a symphony concert or basketball game... downtown. We do them both... along with the many other entertainment options around the metro... we enjoy all the options.

One pictures VP populated largely by Stepford Wives, and their husbands and boyfriends, and the Stepford kids. It is nice, as far as a totally artificial world can be. Kind of like Jim Carrey in The Truman Show. Too bad they didn't develop the area with mixed uses in mind, such as multi story buildings with living units above. I'm not sure if the developers in this town are so gun shy or just lacking in imagination. It isn't even imagination...as I didn't come up with these ideas, they are alive and well and flourishing in truly urban areas of this nation. I guess we just haven't "arrived" yet out here in the sticks.

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:22 pm**

OhioStreetKid wrote:Thank you Jeff.

These Urban Living Patrick Henry's seem to consistently fail to mention the crime, traffic, and pollution that comes with true "urban living".

What exactly do you mean by this comment? I haven't a clue as to what you are referring to. The crime rate in cities such as New York is frequently at or below the levels for Midwestern cities like Omaha, Des Moines, K.C. and the like. Urban living does not lead to crime. Look at Europe. I don't read about criminals running rampant in the streets of truly urbane communities in "Old Europe."

My thought is that poverty, and more specifically unemployment and elevated highschool dropout rates are much better indicias of crime than the design of neighborhoods.

And traffic and pollution are MINIMIZED with proper urban development.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:34 am**

I have worked in Sarpy County and the Papillion area for nearly a quarter century. I have seen some changes in those years, to be sure, but the area is not ready for a Village Point or Pointe or whatever. There are farm fields and junky looking businesses fronting the PP sight on 3 sides. Von Maur isn't into that scene.

How is the area not ready for a Village Pointe? I think it's totally ready. I can't think of one factor to prove otherwise. I would have to say many of the farm fields will no longer be farm fields when Papillion Promenade comes in and maybe even some of these junky businesses will go. Which I am trying to figure out what you mean by junky? The strip mall thats west of it is not junky other than that there arent too many businesses around.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:04 am**

What exactly do you mean by this comment?

It was probably more of an impact statement than anything else. Let's face it... inspite of it being pure perception... the vast majority of Omahans are comfortable with their sprawling, suburban living (they don't want to live over their west Omaha strip mall either) ... as is the case with the vast majority of American's in general. Tto touch on another post... with very few exceptions... America hasn't 'arrived yet' in general. As seemingly big as interest in downtown residential is (and it's no different in larger metros like our neighbor to the south ... or even Minneapolis or Chicago for that matter)... these developments still constitute a TINY fraction of new housing.

And this isn't unique to the midwest... you show me 100 New Yorker's living in an urban utopia in Manhattan/surrounding boroughs ... and I'll show you 1000 more in the New York metro who are living in the same sprawling setting that every other average American is living in. I guess they're better than us... because (<cough> out of necessity due to being MILES out via congested freeways, not novelty) they park their cars in a big community parking lot and take the train into town.

It's a choice that has been made by generations since WWI ... and it's not unique to the midwest, much less Omaha.

That said... I am confident the long term impact of globalization on the American economy will 'lead us' back to more sensible, urban living (that... or even more, tightly packed, Celebrity homes). But that's an entirely different subject.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:08 pm**

OmahaRules wrote:
I have worked in Sarpy County and the Papillion area for nearly a quarter century. I have seen some changes in those years, to be sure, but the area is not ready for a Village Point or Pointe or whatever. There are farm fields and junky looking businesses fronting the PP sight on 3 sides. Von Maur isn't into that scene.

How is the area not ready for a Village Pointe? I think it's totally ready. I can't think of one factor to prove otherwise. I would have to say many of the farm fields will no longer be farm fields when Papillion Promenade comes in and maybe even some of these junky businesses will go. Which I am trying to figure out what you mean by junky? The strip mall thats west of it is not junky other than that there arent too many businesses around.

Look to the north, toward all the tin buildings backing up to hwy 370. Some of them are brand new. All of them are ugly.

Papillion can't support a VP like center because the town barely has 20,000 people. And you can't say to look to the north to Omaha, or the east toward Bellevue. Omahans won't cross Harrison St. to shop in the sticks. And most Bellevue residents don't know where Papillion is. There has for decades been a rivalry between Bellevue and the rest of Sarpy County. Bellevue people don't give Papillion the time of day, and vice versa. It isn't real smart, but it is real.

Sarpy County is growing. It appears some sort of retail development will go on Hwy 370. But it won't resemble VP in size or stature. That isn't all bad. I'm not trying to throw water on people's parade. I just don't see the numbers working. If it were such a great idea the plans announced 5 years ago to much hoopla would all be a reality today.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:38 pm**

huh? How can you speak for 50,000 people of Bellevue. I'm sure the majority people of Bellevue know where Papillion is. Also I would bet much of Ralstons residents from few miles west and east would travel to this new retail area. It's actually goin to be much larger then VP, even without a movie theater.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:28 pm**

I lived in Papio and I don't remember a feud between Bellevue and Papillion. You fail to mention LaVista in your response. With a mall that big it will draw people from Bellevue,LaVista, Papillion and even Plattsmouth. The buildings around it might be ugly but it will have enough people to be supported especially if they bring in some different stores.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:24 pm**

Papillion is more than capable of handling this project....besides, it's not just Papillion that is benefitting and utilizing it, it's going to be a hot spot for all of Sarpy County....I'm sure Bellevue residents who want to shop at Banana, or Abercrombie or even Gap are sick of having to schlep all the way to One Pacific Place, Westroads, Oak View or Village Pointe! This will be very nice for them....and it's more of a visionary thing....

I don't think these developers would have signed their name to anything this large if there wasn't sufficient proof that this will be a profitable thing for them and the area....

One of the main complaints I hear on this site is that no one is ever willing to take a chance, and that developers often 'scale down' on their projects....now it sounds as though some don't think this project should even be done, or sized down if it is....I think it's great that someone is 'holding a vision' for the Papillion and Sarpy County growth potential....

My personal demographic would never live in the West O or Papillion area, but that's just me, I lived in DTO for several years before moving to this God awful excuse of a city (Phoenix), but there are many families and Young Urban Professionals that can build nice homes and have a great neighborhood for their kids....what I like about Omaha is there really is something for everyone, for the most part!

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:26 pm**

....oh by the way, I am ELATED to announce that I am moving to LA in July!! FINALLY!! For those of you who have followed my posts over the past year you will understand how ecstatic I am about getting out of Bedrock, I mean, Phoenix!

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:35 pm**

AZCorey wrote:...this God awful excuse of a city (Phoenix)...

You are subtle about your feelings.

Congrats!!

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:10 pm**

nativeomahan... I'm not sure where you live, or what your motivation is for being here... but your general attitude on all things Omaha really chaffs my |expletive|. I'm trying indoctrinate a clan of fanatical Omaha lovers here to go out and win over the world and you're undermining those efforts at every opportunity. Be careful.

There are over 120,000 people in Sarpy County alone... it is the fastest growing county in the metro. That's 50% more people than all of Pottawatamie County... yet occupying a geographic area of 1/3rd the space. Consider Council Bluffs has an enclosed mall... AND a sizeable power center. Sarpy County is more than ready for it's own large retail center. The reason Papillion Gardens pulled the plug... was because we were in the middle of a recession. There wasn't any new retail activity going on up in Omaha either in this period ... now look what has happened since. Omaha certainly isn't conveniently located for serving Sarpy's retail needs... all the major arteries run east/west to get there... leaving bottlenecks via 72nd, 84th, etc.

I'm going to go out on a limb to suggest that not only will Papillion Promenade draw retailers which have only been available in Omaha to this point... but that ANOTHER large retail center will be built in Sarpy County within the next 5 years.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:11 pm**

I agree.

I'd like to see a metro tax sharing type thing go into effect so that the whole metro can benefit from those shopping centers.

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:22 am**

Well said, native.

It's nice to see an old fogie with some of that enthusiasm monopolized by those young bucks (I consider myself in between)!

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:08 pm**

I agree nativeomahan. I feel that the developers run this city and have no real guidance. They are all just throwing up houses and retail developments left and right with very little planning. While village point is cool and all, there is only two ways in or out 168 and 180 streets which is an awfull traffic blunder this city should have prevented. When that area is fully developed traffic will be even worse.

Posted: **Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:33 am**

According to the OWH, the Promenade stores will be announced in May:

In other business, the council voted 7-0 to approve a preliminary plat for the Papillion Promenade shopping center.

Dirt graders will be on site next month, said Dennis Hogan, representing the Lerner Co. and RED Development.

Plans call for 900,000 square feet of store space at the center at 72nd Street and Nebraska Highway 370.

Hogan said the plan is to announce the stores in conjunction with a shopping center convention in Las Vegas in May.