Central library at Do Space (72 & Dodge)

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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Coyote »

DO Space sees usage number far beyond projections during first year open to public
Alexandra Stone, KETV Anchor/Report wrote:We have had over 220,000 visits to the building. We have now over 44,000 members," Rebecca Stavick, DO Space executive director said.

According to Stavick, DO Space leaders predicted the space would see between 200-250 visitors each day. Stavick said the library, located at 72nd and Dodge, has closer to 500 people stopping in on a daily basis. On busy days, attendance is closer to 800.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Busguy2010 »

I'm going to argue that having a major bus stop right there is a major contributor.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Brad »

Do Space could be demolished as part of potential plans for new central Omaha library


https://omaha.com/news/local/do-space-c ... op-story-1
The first technology library in the United States could be demolished as part of evolving plans to reimagine Omaha’s public libraries.

The building that houses Do Space, at the southwest corner of 72nd and Dodge Streets, could potentially be razed, and a new central library built on the site, according to two library officials.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Doctor Fate »

Brad wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:42 pm Do Space could be demolished as part of potential plans for new central Omaha library


https://omaha.com/news/local/do-space-c ... op-story-1
The first technology library in the United States could be demolished as part of evolving plans to reimagine Omaha’s public libraries.

The building that houses Do Space, at the southwest corner of 72nd and Dodge Streets, could potentially be razed, and a new central library built on the site, according to two library officials.
Any idea where Do Space would go?
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by ita »

Doctor Fate wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:15 pm
Brad wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:42 pm Do Space could be demolished as part of potential plans for new central Omaha library


https://omaha.com/news/local/do-space-c ... op-story-1
The first technology library in the United States could be demolished as part of evolving plans to reimagine Omaha’s public libraries.

The building that houses Do Space, at the southwest corner of 72nd and Dodge Streets, could potentially be razed, and a new central library built on the site, according to two library officials.
Any idea where Do Space would go?
According to the article, they would incorporate the technology do space offers currently. Apparently whatever they are planning has a potentially Heritage sized budget, around $100 million.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by GetUrban »

ita wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:38 pm
Doctor Fate wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:15 pm
Brad wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:42 pm Do Space could be demolished as part of potential plans for new central Omaha library


https://omaha.com/news/local/do-space-c ... op-story-1
The first technology library in the United States could be demolished as part of evolving plans to reimagine Omaha’s public libraries.

The building that houses Do Space, at the southwest corner of 72nd and Dodge Streets, could potentially be razed, and a new central library built on the site, according to two library officials.
Any idea where Do Space would go?
According to the article, they would incorporate the technology do space offers currently. Apparently whatever they are planning has a potentially Heritage sized budget, around $100 million.
Yeah, that’s my understanding too from reading the article. The Do Space functions would be absorbed and possibly expanded into a new larger central library, apparently.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by NEDodger »

My guess is:

New main library/DoSpace complex at 72nd and Dodge.

New branch/smaller version of DoSpace downtown.

Swanson branch is closed and the 90th and Dodge land sold.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Doctor Fate »

GetUrban wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:49 pm
ita wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:38 pm
Doctor Fate wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:15 pm
Brad wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:42 pm Do Space could be demolished as part of potential plans for new central Omaha library


https://omaha.com/news/local/do-space-c ... op-story-1
The first technology library in the United States could be demolished as part of evolving plans to reimagine Omaha’s public libraries.

The building that houses Do Space, at the southwest corner of 72nd and Dodge Streets, could potentially be razed, and a new central library built on the site, according to two library officials.
Any idea where Do Space would go?
According to the article, they would incorporate the technology do space offers currently. Apparently whatever they are planning has a potentially Heritage sized budget, around $100 million.
Yeah, that’s my understanding too from reading the article. The Do Space functions would be absorbed and possibly expanded into a new larger central library, apparently.
Ok cool. Thanks for the info! I can't read it because of the paywall.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Athomsfere »

NEDodger wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:35 am My guess is:

New main library/DoSpace complex at 72nd and Dodge.

New branch/smaller version of DoSpace downtown.

Swanson branch is closed and the 90th and Dodge land sold.
I still hate the thought of downtown losing the main library. Moving it to the river front, near the Luminarium makes a little sense, or anywhere in the core really where downtown can bike there, and / or eventually the light rail could get people close to it.

That said, selling the 90th and Dodge lot: That's a super weird lot. A busy intersection with almost no utility. The only thing that sort of makes sense is either a strip mall (ew) or another 4/5 on 1 apartment building. Personally though, I wonder if a 4 on 1 with retail could work. Some more apartments, but also more lunch options for the offices nearby, and a neighborhood bar for the houses behind the lot.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by JDJase »

Does anyone know of any cities whose main library is not in the downtown area?
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Athomsfere »

JDJase wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:29 am Does anyone know of any cities whose main library is not in the downtown area?
I don't. It feels like a terrible thing to build something like that somewhere that says "We don't like our city's core enough to bring more people down here".

A city shouldn't build a library, IMO build this based on the population center of town. It's an investment for where you want people to be. We want the empty lots filled downtown. We want people to come downtown and see the attractions. We want people to want to be downtown, whether living, working, playing or checking out the library for all of its functions.

And a lot of cities that we should be emulating have AMAZING main libraries in the downtown area. Seattle, Salt Lake City, Minneapolis, SFO, San Diego...
Last edited by Athomsfere on Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

I can’t think of a city whose main library is outside downtown either.

They would definitely be missing a great opportunity for downtown by allowing a combination main library/Do Space to locate anywhere but downtown.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Padre »

I couldn’t find a big city with their main library outside the downtown area either. But there’s another consideration here. Many places list their main library as the “Central library.” For Omaha, a city with downtown at the river, that’s not the case. If Council Bluffs was helping to pay for it, maybe. But not now, when the city going all the way out to Elkhorn.

You need to decide whether a library is an attraction, to bring people into downtown, or a city resource that you want to make easily accessible by as many people in the city as possible.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by GetUrban »

Padre wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:39 pm I couldn’t find a big city with their main library outside the downtown area either. But there’s another consideration here. Many places list their main library as the “Central library.” For Omaha, a city with downtown at the river, that’s not the case. If Council Bluffs was helping to pay for it, maybe. But not now, when the city going all the way out to Elkhorn.

You need to decide whether a library is an attraction, to bring people into downtown, or a city resource that you want to make easily accessible by as many people in the city as possible.


No need to call it “Central” when “Main” branch get’s the point across. But I agree it should be downtown.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by ita »

Padre wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:39 pm I couldn’t find a big city with their main library outside the downtown area either. But there’s another consideration here. Many places list their main library as the “Central library.” For Omaha, a city with downtown at the river, that’s not the case. If Council Bluffs was helping to pay for it, maybe. But not now, when the city going all the way out to Elkhorn.

You need to decide whether a library is an attraction, to bring people into downtown, or a city resource that you want to make easily accessible by as many people in the city as possible.
I want to put my input regarding accessibility. I think from a glance, moving it to 72nd and Dodge (or somewhere near) seems like it is more accessible than its current downtown location. However, despite it's more central location, I would argue it might be less accessible. 72nd and Dodge area is largely unwalkable/unbikable,even though it's on the ORBT line. Unless they do something drastic to 72nd and Dodge or whatever intersection it will be at, it will be more difficult to get to for anyone not driving a car.

As far as differences in actual distance versus a downtown location, I think it is negligible for most. I live near Oakview. I just checked how long it would take me to drive to DoSpace and Central High School (I think the main library should stay put in Downtown, but let's move it to the Civic Auditorium site). It's a 4 minute difference one way, not counting traffic. That's not much of an improvement.

Looking at it from another viewpoint, I think it would make more financial sense to rebuild downtown, specifically the Civic Auditorium site. The City doesn't have to acquire any additional land and already has a monster garage onsite.

From an equitability standpoint, a downtown location is more accessible, for the reasons stated above, to populations that need the services the library provides, particularly if they intend to expand access to technology. Why get rid of DoSpace; keep that where it is and bring similar services to the downtown area for urbanites to benefit from.

Last point, if the City is really serious about keeping downtown the center of Omaha's culture, business, and civic services, the main/central library needs to stay in downtown.

Anyway, the more I think about this, the more I do not like the idea of moving the main library to the Crossroads area, especially if they intend to spend $100 million on it and make it architecturally significant, as hinted in prior comments regarding the project.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by OmahaOmaha »

Padre wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:39 pm I couldn’t find a big city with their main library outside the downtown area either. But there’s another consideration here. Many places list their main library as the “Central library.” For Omaha, a city with downtown at the river, that’s not the case. If Council Bluffs was helping to pay for it, maybe. But not now, when the city going all the way out to Elkhorn.

You need to decide whether a library is an attraction, to bring people into downtown, or a city resource that you want to make easily accessible by as many people in the city as possible.
I believe the library should be centrally located to make it a more accessible. Wether they call it the “Main Library” or the “Central Library” doesn’t make any difference to me.

As for deciding if a library is an attraction or a city resource, how many of you have visited San Diego, San Francisco, Minneapolis, or Seattle? While you were there, how many of you said, “Hey, I need to go Downtown to see the library?” If so, what made the library an attraction? Was it the architecture of the building or was there something inside the library that put it on your “must see” list?

Personally, I visited the Downtown Library in Los Angeles. I was walking around Downtown looking at all the skyscrapers. The only reason I went to the library is to use the restroom. I quickly discovered that the library restroom was a popular “must see” attraction for the homeless population.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by garyomaha »

OmahaOmaha wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:03 am As for deciding if a library is an attraction or a city resource, how many of you have visited San Diego, San Francisco, Minneapolis, or Seattle? While you were there, how many of you said, “Hey, I need to go Downtown to see the library?” If so, what made the library an attraction? Was it the architecture of the building or was there something inside the library that put it on your “must see” list?
Good question. Speaking as an architecture nerd and somewhat of a library nerd (okay, okay, just a nerd in general), I have made it a point to visit libraries as a destination in several cities. Seattle, for one, after hearing about its architecture, which did not fail to impress me. (Years later, I now remember mainly one thing: the RED level in that library.)

If Omaha does create an architecturally-significant building for a new main/central library, I am firmly in the camp that believes it should be downtown. Even though I live much closer to the Crossroads area.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Athomsfere »

ita wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:47 pm
Padre wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:39 pm I couldn’t find a big city with their main library outside the downtown area either. But there’s another consideration here. Many places list their main library as the “Central library.” For Omaha, a city with downtown at the river, that’s not the case. If Council Bluffs was helping to pay for it, maybe. But not now, when the city going all the way out to Elkhorn.

You need to decide whether a library is an attraction, to bring people into downtown, or a city resource that you want to make easily accessible by as many people in the city as possible.
I want to put my input regarding accessibility. I think from a glance, moving it to 72nd and Dodge (or somewhere near) seems like it is more accessible than its current downtown location. However, despite it's more central location, I would argue it might be less accessible. 72nd and Dodge area is largely unwalkable/unbikable,even though it's on the ORBT line. Unless they do something drastic to 72nd and Dodge or whatever intersection it will be at, it will be more difficult to get to for anyone not driving a car.

As far as differences in actual distance versus a downtown location, I think it is negligible for most. I live near Oakview. I just checked how long it would take me to drive to DoSpace and Central High School (I think the main library should stay put in Downtown, but let's move it to the Civic Auditorium site). It's a 4 minute difference one way, not counting traffic. That's not much of an improvement.

Looking at it from another viewpoint, I think it would make more financial sense to rebuild downtown, specifically the Civic Auditorium site. The City doesn't have to acquire any additional land and already has a monster garage onsite.

From an equitability standpoint, a downtown location is more accessible, for the reasons stated above, to populations that need the services the library provides, particularly if they intend to expand access to technology. Why get rid of DoSpace; keep that where it is and bring similar services to the downtown area for urbanites to benefit from.

Last point, if the City is really serious about keeping downtown the center of Omaha's culture, business, and civic services, the main/central library needs to stay in downtown.

Anyway, the more I think about this, the more I do not like the idea of moving the main library to the Crossroads area, especially if they intend to spend $100 million on it and make it architecturally significant, as hinted in prior comments regarding the project.
We said!

I'd also add a lot of downtowns are not centrally located. SFO, Chicago for example are right at the edge of the metro.

OmahaOmaha wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:03 am I believe the library should be centrally located to make it a more accessible. Wether they call it the “Main Library” or the “Central Library” doesn’t make any difference to me.

As for deciding if a library is an attraction or a city resource, how many of you have visited San Diego, San Francisco, Minneapolis, or Seattle? While you were there, how many of you said, “Hey, I need to go Downtown to see the library?” If so, what made the library an attraction? Was it the architecture of the building or was there something inside the library that put it on your “must see” list?

Personally, I visited the Downtown Library in Los Angeles. I was walking around Downtown looking at all the skyscrapers. The only reason I went to the library is to use the restroom. I quickly discovered that the library restroom was a popular “must see” attraction for the homeless population.
And located at 72nd would be less accessible, IMO.

For example: North and South Omaha. Or everyone downtown who has intentionally lived down here for the services that are here, or should be here. Similar to Ita's point: If you have chosen a car dependent place to live, you can't complain about driving 14 minutes vs 10. Whereas if you have chosen a multimodal transit lifestyle, you have a right to complain if two of your possible accessibility routes are removed (walking and biking) and left you with the bus or worse, driving.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Athomsfere »

Athomsfere wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:03 am
ita wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:47 pm
Padre wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:39 pm I couldn’t find a big city with their main library outside the downtown area either. But there’s another consideration here. Many places list their main library as the “Central library.” For Omaha, a city with downtown at the river, that’s not the case. If Council Bluffs was helping to pay for it, maybe. But not now, when the city going all the way out to Elkhorn.

You need to decide whether a library is an attraction, to bring people into downtown, or a city resource that you want to make easily accessible by as many people in the city as possible.
I want to put my input regarding accessibility. I think from a glance, moving it to 72nd and Dodge (or somewhere near) seems like it is more accessible than its current downtown location. However, despite it's more central location, I would argue it might be less accessible. 72nd and Dodge area is largely unwalkable/unbikable,even though it's on the ORBT line. Unless they do something drastic to 72nd and Dodge or whatever intersection it will be at, it will be more difficult to get to for anyone not driving a car.

As far as differences in actual distance versus a downtown location, I think it is negligible for most. I live near Oakview. I just checked how long it would take me to drive to DoSpace and Central High School (I think the main library should stay put in Downtown, but let's move it to the Civic Auditorium site). It's a 4 minute difference one way, not counting traffic. That's not much of an improvement.

Looking at it from another viewpoint, I think it would make more financial sense to rebuild downtown, specifically the Civic Auditorium site. The City doesn't have to acquire any additional land and already has a monster garage onsite.

From an equitability standpoint, a downtown location is more accessible, for the reasons stated above, to populations that need the services the library provides, particularly if they intend to expand access to technology. Why get rid of DoSpace; keep that where it is and bring similar services to the downtown area for urbanites to benefit from.

Last point, if the City is really serious about keeping downtown the center of Omaha's culture, business, and civic services, the main/central library needs to stay in downtown.

Anyway, the more I think about this, the more I do not like the idea of moving the main library to the Crossroads area, especially if they intend to spend $100 million on it and make it architecturally significant, as hinted in prior comments regarding the project.
Well said!

I'd also add a lot of downtowns are not centrally located. SFO, Chicago for example are right at the edge of the metro.

OmahaOmaha wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:03 am I believe the library should be centrally located to make it a more accessible. Wether they call it the “Main Library” or the “Central Library” doesn’t make any difference to me.

As for deciding if a library is an attraction or a city resource, how many of you have visited San Diego, San Francisco, Minneapolis, or Seattle? While you were there, how many of you said, “Hey, I need to go Downtown to see the library?” If so, what made the library an attraction? Was it the architecture of the building or was there something inside the library that put it on your “must see” list?

Personally, I visited the Downtown Library in Los Angeles. I was walking around Downtown looking at all the skyscrapers. The only reason I went to the library is to use the restroom. I quickly discovered that the library restroom was a popular “must see” attraction for the homeless population.
And located at 72nd would be less accessible, IMO.

For example: North and South Omaha. Or everyone downtown who has intentionally lived down here for the services that are here, or should be here. Similar to Ita's point: If you have chosen a car dependent place to live, you can't complain about driving 14 minutes vs 10. Whereas if you have chosen a multimodal transit lifestyle, you have a right to complain if two of your possible accessibility routes are removed (walking and biking) and left you with the bus or worse, driving.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Athomsfere »

ita wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:47 pm
Padre wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:39 pm I couldn’t find a big city with their main library outside the downtown area either. But there’s another consideration here. Many places list their main library as the “Central library.” For Omaha, a city with downtown at the river, that’s not the case. If Council Bluffs was helping to pay for it, maybe. But not now, when the city going all the way out to Elkhorn.

You need to decide whether a library is an attraction, to bring people into downtown, or a city resource that you want to make easily accessible by as many people in the city as possible.
I want to put my input regarding accessibility. I think from a glance, moving it to 72nd and Dodge (or somewhere near) seems like it is more accessible than its current downtown location. However, despite it's more central location, I would argue it might be less accessible. 72nd and Dodge area is largely unwalkable/unbikable,even though it's on the ORBT line. Unless they do something drastic to 72nd and Dodge or whatever intersection it will be at, it will be more difficult to get to for anyone not driving a car.

As far as differences in actual distance versus a downtown location, I think it is negligible for most. I live near Oakview. I just checked how long it would take me to drive to DoSpace and Central High School (I think the main library should stay put in Downtown, but let's move it to the Civic Auditorium site). It's a 4 minute difference one way, not counting traffic. That's not much of an improvement.

Looking at it from another viewpoint, I think it would make more financial sense to rebuild downtown, specifically the Civic Auditorium site. The City doesn't have to acquire any additional land and already has a monster garage onsite.

From an equitability standpoint, a downtown location is more accessible, for the reasons stated above, to populations that need the services the library provides, particularly if they intend to expand access to technology. Why get rid of DoSpace; keep that where it is and bring similar services to the downtown area for urbanites to benefit from.

Last point, if the City is really serious about keeping downtown the center of Omaha's culture, business, and civic services, the main/central library needs to stay in downtown.

Anyway, the more I think about this, the more I do not like the idea of moving the main library to the Crossroads area, especially if they intend to spend $100 million on it and make it architecturally significant, as hinted in prior comments regarding the project.
Well said!

I'd also add a lot of downtowns are not centrally located. SFO, Chicago for example are right at the edge of the metro.

OmahaOmaha wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:03 am I believe the library should be centrally located to make it a more accessible. Wether they call it the “Main Library” or the “Central Library” doesn’t make any difference to me.

As for deciding if a library is an attraction or a city resource, how many of you have visited San Diego, San Francisco, Minneapolis, or Seattle? While you were there, how many of you said, “Hey, I need to go Downtown to see the library?” If so, what made the library an attraction? Was it the architecture of the building or was there something inside the library that put it on your “must see” list?

Personally, I visited the Downtown Library in Los Angeles. I was walking around Downtown looking at all the skyscrapers. The only reason I went to the library is to use the restroom. I quickly discovered that the library restroom was a popular “must see” attraction for the homeless population.
And located at 72nd would be less accessible, IMO.

For example: North and South Omaha. Or everyone downtown who has intentionally lived down here for the services that are here, or should be here. Similar to Ita's point: If you have chosen a car dependent place to live, you can't complain about driving 14 minutes vs 10. Whereas if you have chosen a multimodal transit lifestyle, you have a right to complain if two of your possible accessibility routes are removed (walking and biking) and left you with the bus or worse, driving.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by ita »

garyomaha wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:38 am
OmahaOmaha wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:03 am As for deciding if a library is an attraction or a city resource, how many of you have visited San Diego, San Francisco, Minneapolis, or Seattle? While you were there, how many of you said, “Hey, I need to go Downtown to see the library?” If so, what made the library an attraction? Was it the architecture of the building or was there something inside the library that put it on your “must see” list?
Good question. Speaking as an architecture nerd and somewhat of a library nerd (okay, okay, just a nerd in general), I have made it a point to visit libraries as a destination in several cities. Seattle, for one, after hearing about its architecture, which did not fail to impress me. (Years later, I now remember mainly one thing: the RED level in that library.)

If Omaha does create an architecturally-significant building for a new main/central library, I am firmly in the camp that believes it should be downtown. Even though I live much closer to the Crossroads area.
Yes, exactly. I was OK at first about bringing something architecturally significant to the Crossroads area. But I don't think one amazing building is going to enhance an area devoid of any good urban planning or architectural design. The sea of parking lots and strip malls will bring any aesthetic or architectural value the project would bring to the area down with it unless that whole area is razed and rebuilt. Heck, even the new Crossroads plan is largely suburban, car centric muck. It's a lipstick on a pig or polish a turd example. Don't bring the new library there if it's going to be a building intended to stand out among Omaha's architecture.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by JDJase »

Athomsfere wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:05 am
ita wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:47 pm
Padre wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:39 pm I couldn’t find a big city with their main library outside the downtown area either. But there’s another consideration here. Many places list their main library as the “Central library.” For Omaha, a city with downtown at the river, that’s not the case. If Council Bluffs was helping to pay for it, maybe. But not now, when the city going all the way out to Elkhorn.

You need to decide whether a library is an attraction, to bring people into downtown, or a city resource that you want to make easily accessible by as many people in the city as possible.
I want to put my input regarding accessibility. I think from a glance, moving it to 72nd and Dodge (or somewhere near) seems like it is more accessible than its current downtown location. However, despite it's more central location, I would argue it might be less accessible. 72nd and Dodge area is largely unwalkable/unbikable,even though it's on the ORBT line. Unless they do something drastic to 72nd and Dodge or whatever intersection it will be at, it will be more difficult to get to for anyone not driving a car.

As far as differences in actual distance versus a downtown location, I think it is negligible for most. I live near Oakview. I just checked how long it would take me to drive to DoSpace and Central High School (I think the main library should stay put in Downtown, but let's move it to the Civic Auditorium site). It's a 4 minute difference one way, not counting traffic. That's not much of an improvement.

Looking at it from another viewpoint, I think it would make more financial sense to rebuild downtown, specifically the Civic Auditorium site. The City doesn't have to acquire any additional land and already has a monster garage onsite.

From an equitability standpoint, a downtown location is more accessible, for the reasons stated above, to populations that need the services the library provides, particularly if they intend to expand access to technology. Why get rid of DoSpace; keep that where it is and bring similar services to the downtown area for urbanites to benefit from.

Last point, if the City is really serious about keeping downtown the center of Omaha's culture, business, and civic services, the main/central library needs to stay in downtown.

Anyway, the more I think about this, the more I do not like the idea of moving the main library to the Crossroads area, especially if they intend to spend $100 million on it and make it architecturally significant, as hinted in prior comments regarding the project.
Well said!

I'd also add a lot of downtowns are not centrally located. SFO, Chicago for example are right at the edge of the metro.

OmahaOmaha wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:03 am I believe the library should be centrally located to make it a more accessible. Wether they call it the “Main Library” or the “Central Library” doesn’t make any difference to me.

As for deciding if a library is an attraction or a city resource, how many of you have visited San Diego, San Francisco, Minneapolis, or Seattle? While you were there, how many of you said, “Hey, I need to go Downtown to see the library?” If so, what made the library an attraction? Was it the architecture of the building or was there something inside the library that put it on your “must see” list?

Personally, I visited the Downtown Library in Los Angeles. I was walking around Downtown looking at all the skyscrapers. The only reason I went to the library is to use the restroom. I quickly discovered that the library restroom was a popular “must see” attraction for the homeless population.
And located at 72nd would be less accessible, IMO.

For example: North and South Omaha. Or everyone downtown who has intentionally lived down here for the services that are here, or should be here. Similar to Ita's point: If you have chosen a car dependent place to live, you can't complain about driving 14 minutes vs 10. Whereas if you have chosen a multimodal transit lifestyle, you have a right to complain if two of your possible accessibility routes are removed (walking and biking) and left you with the bus or worse, driving.
I agree with Athomsfere and ita. Regarding 'utilitarian vs destination' I think it's irrelevant. Perhaps I'm just old fashioned and traditional in that I think the primary civic/government services should be in a city's urban core. City Hall (for Omaha and nearly any other city) is generally considered utilitarian, not destination, but I think we would see near-unanimous balking if the city proposed moving city hall to Old Mill to be the most centralized location possible. If they want to turn Do Space into an expanded branch library that would be great, but the main library with the most important collections should be in a city's core.

As mentioned above, the differences in drive time from West O to 72nd and Dodge vs Downtown is relatively negligible. I also don't think "but parking!" is a great reason either because an expanded library at the Do Space location is probably going to have a very limited surface parking lot whereas downtown, contrary to popular belief, has ample parking if Omahans are willing to get over their irrational fear of parking garages.

I think we often use "Omaha's situation is unique because the downtown isn't centralized!" as more of a lazy excuse to favor the suburbs, because it's not at all unique and is actually very common. Chicago, Milwaukee, St Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Louisville (KY), Memphis, Buffalo, Boston, Portland (ME), Philadelphia, Miami, El Paso, San Diego, San Francisco, just to name a few off the top of my head all have downtowns on or near the edge of the city. (I guess in Omaha's 'defense', nearly all of those cities also have far superior public transportation).
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Athomsfere »

JDJase wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:10 am I agree with Athomsfere and ita. Regarding 'utilitarian vs destination' I think it's irrelevant. Perhaps I'm just old fashioned and traditional in that I think the primary civic/government services should be in a city's urban core. City Hall (for Omaha and nearly any other city) is generally considered utilitarian, not destination, but I think we would see near-unanimous balking if the city proposed moving city hall to Old Mill to be the most centralized location possible. If they want to turn Do Space into an expanded branch library that would be great, but the main library with the most important collections should be in a city's core.

As mentioned above, the differences in drive time from West O to 72nd and Dodge vs Downtown is relatively negligible. I also don't think "but parking!" is a great reason either because an expanded library at the Do Space location is probably going to have a very limited surface parking lot whereas downtown, contrary to popular belief, has ample parking if Omahans are willing to get over their irrational fear of parking garages.

I think we often use "Omaha's situation is unique because the downtown isn't centralized!" as more of a lazy excuse to favor the suburbs, because it's not at all unique and is actually very common. Chicago, Milwaukee, St Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Louisville (KY), Memphis, Buffalo, Boston, Portland (ME), Philadelphia, Miami, El Paso, San Diego, San Francisco, just to name a few off the top of my head all have downtowns on or near the edge of the city. (I guess in Omaha's 'defense', nearly all of those cities also have far superior public transportation).
As far as that "defense" goes: I'd say: So because it's broken, let's break it some more? I'd rather use that as fuel for getting the city on course for what needs to be done before it's too late. Let us not be the next LA, or Austin with clogged roads 15 lanes wide ruining the city.

And what was the figure some else pointed out? Downtown has something like 60 spaces for every 40 people who work or live downtown? I have never once had an issue parking downtown. It's plentiful, and relatively cheap.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by ita »

It's interesting that they have talked about making the new main library something that not just utilitarian, but also have significant design. If that is their intention, it does not make sense to me that Heritage is willing to invest in Downtown with the Riverfront Revitalization and science museum, and then move the main library that could be another destination for the City to a run of the mill intersection. I really don't care what the mayor or Chip James says about Crossroads, but when it's significant history is that it was Omaha's premier suburban shopping destination for a few decades or that it was once the most trafficked intersection in Omaha, that does not mean it's the heart or cultural crossroads of the City.

On a more positive note, if they build something really cool, I hope it is something bold like the Calgary library (which is downtown and serves as a transit center!). That project cost $200M to build, but they could do something really neat on the Civic Site with only $100M.
Last edited by ita on Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by Athomsfere »

ita wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:15 pm It's interesting that they have talked about making the new main library something that not just utilitarian, but also have significant design. If that is their intention, it does not make sense to me that Heritage is willing to invest in Downtown with the Riverfront Revitalization and science museum, and then move the main library that could be another destination for the City to a run of the mill intersection. I really don't care what the mayor or Chip James says about Crossroads, but when it's significant history is that it was Omaha's premier suburban shopping destination for a few decades or that it was once the most trafficked intersection in Omaha, that does not mean it's the heart or cultural crossroads of the City.

On a more positive note, if they build something really cool, I hope it is something bold like the Calgary library (which is downtown and serves as a transit center!). That project cost $200M to build, but they could do something really neat on the Civic Site with only[/] $100M.


I'd love to see something unique get built. The Calgary according to Wikipedia was more like $245 million, Seattle's Main Library was in the $165 million range.

I'd love either of those planners to build a downtown library, for a metro of ~2 million people (Omaha's likely size when the building comes to the chopping block for the 1st time in the 2060's / 2070's).

Also, imagine being an architecture nerd that comes to Omaha, and has to go to 72nd and Dodge for one building.
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Re: Do Space (former 72nd St. Borders Store)

Post by GetUrban »

Hopefully the 72nd and Dodge Do Space location isn’t a done deal and they’ll still consider a downtown site. Sometimes when the movers & shakers and Heritage Services are involved, minds are already made up, and the major players like HDR & Kiewit are already involved, especially if there is a large private donor lined-up. The planning dept and city council will still have to approve it though and can be swayed by public opinion, for better or worse.
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Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by ita »

Library, Heritage officials announce next steps in plans to build new central library
Jessica Wade
Omaha officials announced plans on Friday to begin the process of developing a new central library at 72nd and Dodge Streets that would incorporate the services of one of the country's first technology libraries.

The central library, as it's imagined, would rise in the place of Do Space. The incorporation of the private digital library, which was founded in a former Borders bookstore, is just one aspect of plans that are developing and not guaranteed to move forward.

Omaha fundraising organization Heritage Omaha, previously called Heritage Services, has raised funds to continue exploration of the potential project.

The nonprofit also launched a website Friday where ongoing project updates and information on opportunities for public input will be posted. The site can be found at omahacentrallibrary.org.

Any future project at the Do Space location would incorporate Do Space technology programs with traditional library services, according to a joint press release from the city, Omaha Public Library, Heritage and Do Space.
After the highs of this week's announcements, I am kind of deflated reading that it is official (they have a website now!). Bummer.
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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by Brad »

Wonder why this wasn't announced the other day. I wonder if this announcement was sped up after all the backlash against tearing down the main library?
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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by ita »

Brad wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:41 am Wonder why this wasn't announced the other day. I wonder if this announcement was sped up after all the backlash against tearing down the main library?
That's my guess. Additionally, they don't have any renderings yet, so maybe they just weren't ready for a full blown press conference.

It's interesting visiting the website. They have inspirational libraries and most of them are in the urban core and is walkable. Heck, Norfolk's isn't too far from main street.
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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by ricko »

I see this as an attempt to deflect the heat they’re getting over the whole library move. I don’t take this proposal seriously; and I suspect that most will take the bait.
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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by Taco »

ita wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:58 am
Brad wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:41 am Wonder why this wasn't announced the other day. I wonder if this announcement was sped up after all the backlash against tearing down the main library?
That's my guess. Additionally, they don't have any renderings yet, so maybe they just weren't ready for a full blown press conference.

It's interesting visiting the website. They have inspirational libraries and most of them are in the urban core and is walkable. Heck, Norfolk's isn't too far from main street.
I think there's still a chance this gets built elsewhere than 72nd/Dodge. Heritage has done a lot of good for the city but they will have to reconsider how they operate now if they hope to regain public trust. Since Lake Cunningham, there has been rising outcry from the public regarding the "rules" behind their generosity, which I don't recall previously.
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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by nebport5 »

The comments from the Herald article are still overwhelmingly negative.

From OmahaCentralLibrary.org the place to "express your thoughts" has only two fields of leading questions...

1."How do you want your library experience to make you feel?"

2."What do you want the new central library project to do for our communities?"
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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by Greg S »

Obviously it was exciting with all the announcements for downtown.

I think this is pretty exciting too for the Crossroads area, and Omaha as a whole. I don't think we will recognize it in 5 years. Between this, Crossroads itself, all of the land directly south of this that is being cleared, and whatever NFM has in store (along with their tract of land near 76th and Dodge).

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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by GetUrban »

After the big streetcar/MoO HQ announcement earlier this week, Heritage, HDR, APMA, MSS, & Do Space were like “ Hey wait a minute, don’t forget about us and our new central library juggernaut coming your way soon to 72nd and Dodge.” ‘And don’t forget to give us your input.”

But nevertheless, this is exciting news for the Crossroads area! How long until the street car gets extended out to Crossroads? Or will ORBT serve that purpose indefinitely?

I still think I’d rather see the new so-called “central library” at the west end of GLM. Also, will it still have books?
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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by OutoftheCanyon »

GetUrban wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:53 pm After the big streetcar/MoO HQ announcement earlier this week, Heritage, HDR, APMA, MSS, & Do Space were like “ Hey wait a minute, don’t forget about us and our new central library juggernaut coming your way soon to 72nd and Dodge.” ‘And don’t forget to give us your input.”

But nevertheless, this is exciting news for the Crossroads area! How long until the street car gets extended out to Crossroads? Or will ORBT serve that purpose indefinitely?

I still think I’d rather see the new so-called “central library” at the west end of GLM. Also, will it still have books?
Of course it will have books. It is also 2022 you everyone has a small device they carry around that has access to ALL the worlds information. You can check out ebooks. This world has gone digital and we need to join the current age.
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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by nebport5 »

GetUrban wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:53 pm After the big streetcar/MoO HQ announcement earlier this week, Heritage, HDR, APMA, MSS, & Do Space were like “ Hey wait a minute, don’t forget about us and our new central library juggernaut coming your way soon to 72nd and Dodge.” ‘And don’t forget to give us your input.”

But nevertheless, this is exciting news for the Crossroads area! How long until the street car gets extended out to Crossroads? Or will ORBT serve that purpose indefinitely?

I still think I’d rather see the new so-called “central library” at the west end of GLM. Also, will it still have books?
Or another site on the streetcar line. Even a spot in midtown where MoO is vacating would be better than 72nd & Dodge.
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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by BRoss »

nebport5 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:29 am
GetUrban wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:53 pm After the big streetcar/MoO HQ announcement earlier this week, Heritage, HDR, APMA, MSS, & Do Space were like “ Hey wait a minute, don’t forget about us and our new central library juggernaut coming your way soon to 72nd and Dodge.” ‘And don’t forget to give us your input.”

But nevertheless, this is exciting news for the Crossroads area! How long until the street car gets extended out to Crossroads? Or will ORBT serve that purpose indefinitely?

I still think I’d rather see the new so-called “central library” at the west end of GLM. Also, will it still have books?
Or another site on the streetcar line. Even a spot in midtown where MoO is vacating would be better than 72nd & Dodge.
That would be a great spot.
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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by GetUrban »

OutoftheCanyon wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:13 am
GetUrban wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:53 pm After the big streetcar/MoO HQ announcement earlier this week, Heritage, HDR, APMA, MSS, & Do Space were like “ Hey wait a minute, don’t forget about us and our new central library juggernaut coming your way soon to 72nd and Dodge.” ‘And don’t forget to give us your input.”

But nevertheless, this is exciting news for the Crossroads area! How long until the street car gets extended out to Crossroads? Or will ORBT serve that purpose indefinitely?

I still think I’d rather see the new so-called “central library” at the west end of GLM. Also, will it still have books?
Of course it will have books. It is also 2022 you everyone has a small device they carry around that has access to ALL the worlds information. You can check out ebooks. This world has gone digital and we need to join the current age.
I was half-joking with my question of of whether the library would still have books and I am well aware of the need for people to have remote digital access to whatever resources and collections the library has to offer. It may be that the so-called “main branch” should be digitally accessible from anywhere with an internet connection, and the library building called “the main branch” will set itself apart from the other branches by show-casing the latest information technologies while offering training for people who want to learn how to access said technology. You could argue that all Omaha library branches should offer these services to remain viable.
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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by jomaha9 »

Very good perspective. In reality, the designation of "main branch" is largely symbolic for most of the library services. The only exceptions I can think of is special events/classes or gallery space.
GetUrban wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:57 am
OutoftheCanyon wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:13 am
GetUrban wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:53 pm After the big streetcar/MoO HQ announcement earlier this week, Heritage, HDR, APMA, MSS, & Do Space were like “ Hey wait a minute, don’t forget about us and our new central library juggernaut coming your way soon to 72nd and Dodge.” ‘And don’t forget to give us your input.”

But nevertheless, this is exciting news for the Crossroads area! How long until the street car gets extended out to Crossroads? Or will ORBT serve that purpose indefinitely?

I still think I’d rather see the new so-called “central library” at the west end of GLM. Also, will it still have books?
Of course it will have books. It is also 2022 you everyone has a small device they carry around that has access to ALL the worlds information. You can check out ebooks. This world has gone digital and we need to join the current age.
I was half-joking with my question of of whether the library would still have books and I am well aware of the need for people to have remote digital access to whatever resources and collections the library has to offer. It may be that the so-called “main branch” should be digitally accessible from anywhere with an internet connection, and the library building called “the main branch” will set itself apart from the other branches by show-casing the latest information technologies while offering training for people who want to learn how to access said technology. You could argue that all Omaha library branches should offer these services to remain viable.
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Re: Central Library at DoSpace Site (72nd and Dodge)

Post by S.O.Boy »

nebport5 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:29 am
GetUrban wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:53 pm After the big streetcar/MoO HQ announcement earlier this week, Heritage, HDR, APMA, MSS, & Do Space were like “ Hey wait a minute, don’t forget about us and our new central library juggernaut coming your way soon to 72nd and Dodge.” ‘And don’t forget to give us your input.”

But nevertheless, this is exciting news for the Crossroads area! How long until the street car gets extended out to Crossroads? Or will ORBT serve that purpose indefinitely?

I still think I’d rather see the new so-called “central library” at the west end of GLM. Also, will it still have books?
Or another site on the streetcar line. Even a spot in midtown where MoO is vacating would be better than 72nd & Dodge.
Not if you live in far West Omaha.
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