Omaha Forums

It's great to see this new-urbanesque infill development on undeveloped land in an already-established part of the city, instead of the continued steady march west & southwestward on the outskirts of Omaha. Noddle is one of, if not the most well-respected developer in the Omaha area. I'm sure he would not put his and his team's reputation for success on the line if he wasn't certain he could pull it off. This development, and ones like it, could actually help turn people's focus back inward in Omaha to more fully utilize and improve the infrastructure we already have. Old Mill is becoming ripe for redevelopment, hopefully after Crossroads. Increasing the density of the Boys Town area will make it easier to justify new mass transit solutions along the Dodge corridor, as others have mentioned. There will always be naysayers that prefer the low-density model of suburban growth, but I'm happy Omaha will give people even more choices on what type of city environment they want to live in.

I think this development is far enough west of Crossroads that it won't pull too many eastern residents away from supporting whatever happens at Crossroads, especially if retail is downplayed a bit and A/V is full.

Erik wrote:

Omaha1000 wrote:The vision is to create a special downtown for west Omaha. In my opinion, it is at the expense of our existing urban core. I think that the following quote on ketv.com is significant.

It’s all a part of pulling off biggest project of his career -- quite literally, a new downtown in west Omaha.
"It's an opportunity to essentially design an urban core,” Noddle said.
Source: http://www.ketv.com/news/aksarben-villa ... n/41965896

Building this type of development in an area currently hosting a corn field instead of redeveloping existing neighborhoods is not something to celebrate.

Then don't celebrate. As for me, I'm going to not only completely disagree with you, but am going to sit back relish in yet another amazing development that most cities can only dream of getting.

Omaha is on another incredible wave of development.

If I lived in west Omaha, I'd be happy about it to. I argue that it is not a positive thing for the city as a whole, but I agree that it is an impressive development. I hope you do sit back and relish it along with many others.

Omaha1000 wrote:

Erik wrote:

Omaha1000 wrote:The vision is to create a special downtown for west Omaha. In my opinion, it is at the expense of our existing urban core. I think that the following quote on ketv.com is significant.

It’s all a part of pulling off biggest project of his career -- quite literally, a new downtown in west Omaha.
"It's an opportunity to essentially design an urban core,” Noddle said.
Source: http://www.ketv.com/news/aksarben-villa ... n/41965896

Building this type of development in an area currently hosting a corn field instead of redeveloping existing neighborhoods is not something to celebrate.

Then don't celebrate. As for me, I'm going to not only completely disagree with you, but am going to sit back relish in yet another amazing development that most cities can only dream of getting.

Omaha is on another incredible wave of development.

If I lived in west Omaha, I'd be happy about it to. I argue that it is not a positive thing for the city as a whole, but I agree that it is an impressive development. I hope you do sit back and relish it along with many others.

Well since you are against this project Omaha1000 I'm curious as to what you would like to put there instead?

Trips wrote:

Omaha_corn_burner wrote: Let's see if we can get 2 bedroom condos for under $200,000 and monthly fees around $200

I will be right next to you with a deposit as long as they have first floor retail. I would even go $250k depending on the HOA fees. I originally thought of this property like Westgate in Glendale AZ and they have 2 bedroom condo/townhome's in the $180k-$230k range.

I am also excited about the old school neighborhood. I have a friend in Lincoln that lives at Fallbrook and they love this concept.

I totally agree. Build more maintenance-free living condos/townhomes for young adults and empty-nesters under $250K. This area should consider multi-story condo's for purchase. Enough high rent apartments already.

jessep28 wrote:When reality sets in, and deals don't go through, this development may devolve into a strip mall complex with a few 3-4 story office buildings.

Ah how rare and refreshing. A breath of common sense and reality in this crazy place.

Just to echo some things. both pieces will be able to use an SID, so no need for TIF. Omaha will indeed annex both at some point. There will be no particular rush as like all SIDs you want them to pay their own debt down first. The thing that accelerates that is retail (sales tax) but that will take a while to get there I would think. For the burbs, these plans are good. They could be better but they already exceed Ironwood, Village Pointe and others as well, so given their location, quite a positive. Not a ton of complaints by the neighbors either but the predictable ones still came out. Most frustrating to me is that both the developer and the neighborhood railed against the notion of a street connection to the park/school. This one will take a long time to build out and hopefully, it will in fact put 192 and Dodge off indefinitely.

OmahaFan wrote:

Omaha1000 wrote:

Erik wrote:

Omaha1000 wrote:The vision is to create a special downtown for west Omaha. In my opinion, it is at the expense of our existing urban core. I think that the following quote on ketv.com is significant.

It’s all a part of pulling off biggest project of his career -- quite literally, a new downtown in west Omaha.
"It's an opportunity to essentially design an urban core,” Noddle said.
Source: http://www.ketv.com/news/aksarben-villa ... n/41965896

Building this type of development in an area currently hosting a corn field instead of redeveloping existing neighborhoods is not something to celebrate.

Then don't celebrate. As for me, I'm going to not only completely disagree with you, but am going to sit back relish in yet another amazing development that most cities can only dream of getting.

Omaha is on another incredible wave of development.

If I lived in west Omaha, I'd be happy about it to. I argue that it is not a positive thing for the city as a whole, but I agree that it is an impressive development. I hope you do sit back and relish it along with many others.

Well since you are against this project Omaha1000 I'm curious as to what you would like to put there instead?

In general, I do not like urban sprawl. When I look at all the many areas in Omaha that could be renovated or developed, including in west Omaha, I simply think that it is not a good thing to instead pave over another cornfield.

If you're down on sprawl and care about the interior of the city, pick a different city..

TitosBuritoBarn wrote:

Omaha1000 wrote:The vision is to create a special downtown for west Omaha. In my opinion, it is at the expense of our existing urban core. I think that the following quote on ketv.com is significant.

It's missing the character of downtown. There's developments like this all over the country but they don't steal much from downtown because character counts for a lot. Take Denver for example. Its Stapleton neighborhood is fairly similar to this - it's a new urbanist development - but downtown Denver continues to thrive if not much more so than Stapleton. Why? Not because its cheaper or safer or has a more abundance of grocery stores. It has character. And convenience. Also a factor.

Building this type of development in an area currently hosting a corn field instead of redeveloping existing neighborhoods is not something to celebrate.

True, but I kind of think this sort of neighborhood is necessary to get people to feel more positive about urbanism. There are certainly still those who think things east of 72nd Street are scary. I think this can act as a catalyst to show that that is not the case.

Yes, downtown will have a unique character for decades to come. I think this project will more adversely affect development in more central areas such as 108th and Dodge and 72nd and Dodge. I think that downtown's largest problem is that it is on one edge of the city. As the city grows, downtown becomes more of a far away place from west O.

MTO wrote:If you're down on sprawl and care about the interior of the city, pick a different city..

Ok, that sounds like a reasonable plan. I will sell my house and quit my job of 17 years because I do not urban sprawl.

Omaha1000 wrote: Yes, downtown will have a unique character for decades to come. I think this project will more adversely affect development in more central areas such as 108th and Dodge and 72nd and Dodge. I think that downtown's largest problem is that it is on one edge of the city. As the city grows, downtown becomes more of a far away place from west O.

There are increasingly rare occasions for me to drive from UNMC to downtown. There are restaurants that cost a fortune and are realistically no better than I can get near my home in the center of Omaha on 120th. They are good and affordable, with free parking.

Omaha1000 wrote:

OmahaFan wrote: Well since you are against this project Omaha1000 I'm curious as to what you would like to put there instead?

In general, I do not like urban sprawl. When I look at all the many areas in Omaha that could be renovated or developed, including in west Omaha, I simply think that it is not a good thing to instead pave over another cornfield.

Can you answer the question? What would you rather have there? The land was put up for sale, and it sold. What would you prefer the new owner do with it?

Urban sprawl is what grows a city and adds to it's diversity! Without Omaha would be stagnant and would suffer from people leaving the city for better places. I'm glad Omaha is using the current farmland off Pacific St for such a project because it shows we are utilizing the land to it's full potential. I understand though you want them to focus on building up the inner city first and they are doing that just look at the South Omaha projects going on and the projects going on in Midtown and even North Omaha! We also need to focus on West Omaha as well! This project could bring in some big business and retailers! It show's Omaha can take on huge project's and deliver with amazing results as well! Big risk sometimes comes with BIG REWARDS!

Things I think I know: No City Sales Tax, No Restaurant Tax on purchases within the SID.

What I don't know: Would the housing be separate from the commercial SID or can you combine them? Can they create what could be considered a city sales tax? Could this tax then be used to pay the bonds and lower the property tax rate?

From the Douglas County Clerks website "A Sanitary and Improvement District (SID) is created when a developer buys land for a housing development. The SID can install streets, sewers and power, and can also buy land for public parks. To accomplish these tasks, the SID has the authority to issue bonds, levy taxes and special assessments, and fix rates for services. They also can buy land for public parks."

Trips wrote:Things I think I know: No City Sales Tax, No Restaurant Tax on purchases within the SID.

What I don't know: Would the housing be separate from the commercial SID or can you combine them? Can they create what could be considered a city sales tax? Could this tax then be used to pay the bonds and lower the property tax rate?

From the Douglas County Clerks website "A Sanitary and Improvement District (SID) is created when a developer buys land for a housing development. The SID can install streets, sewers and power, and can also buy land for public parks. To accomplish these tasks, the SID has the authority to issue bonds, levy taxes and special assessments, and fix rates for services. They also can buy land for public parks."

That would be quite nice for consumers but I'm sure when it become profitable enough Omaha will annex it quicker then heck!

Looks like all that is missing is an arena!

Omaha1000 wrote:
In general, I do not like urban sprawl. When I look at all the many areas in Omaha that could be renovated or developed, including in west Omaha, I simply think that it is not a good thing to instead pave over another cornfield.

Generally, I agree with you when you say there are many areas within the city that can/should be redeveloped. But, the land/cornfields slated for this new Noddle development is already surrounded by the city. It doesn't meet the definition of Urban Sprawl since it's not extending outside of the existing city boundaries. It's actually increasing the density of an area surrounded by former sprawl.

GetUrban wrote:

Omaha1000 wrote:
In general, I do not like urban sprawl. When I look at all the many areas in Omaha that could be renovated or developed, including in west Omaha, I simply think that it is not a good thing to instead pave over another cornfield.

Generally, I agree with you when you say there are many areas within the city that can/should be redeveloped. But, the land/cornfields slated for this new Noddle development is already surrounded by the city. It doesn't meet the definition of Urban Sprawl since it's not extending outside of the existing city boundaries. It's actually increasing the density of an area surrounded by former sprawl.

Exactly! I consider this more infill than sprawl.

This is such an interesting project. I am not sure what to make of it. Part of me is excited, because if this is pulled off successfully it could be a model on how Omaha should grow as it continues to grow west and south west. However, the skeptic in me thinks this might be a little too ambitious for Noddle.

Also, if infill is considered urban sprawl, then should we upset with the urban sprawl happening at Aksarben Village as well? As far as I see it, this will draw mostly from people already in west O who like being in west O and wouldn't move to downtown anyways.

bmt wrote:This is such an interesting project. I am not sure what to make of it. Part of me is excited, because if this is pulled off successfully it could be a model on how Omaha should grow as it continues to grow west and south west. However, the skeptic in me thinks this might be a little too ambitious for Noddle.

Also, if infill is considered urban sprawl, then should we upset with the urban sprawl happening at Aksarben Village as well? As far as I see it, this will draw mostly from people already in west O who like being in west O and wouldn't move to downtown anyways.

Precisely, I rarely go out to West Omaha and know plenty of people that rarely go downtown.

bmt wrote:This is such an interesting project. I am not sure what to make of it. Part of me is excited, because if this is pulled off successfully it could be a model on how Omaha should grow as it continues to grow west and south west. However, the skeptic in me thinks this might be a little too ambitious for Noddle.

.

Thats where im at. I have mentally accepted the farm will be no more, however the surrounding road access barely supports the area even in light to moderate traffic. This place is going to be locked up neck to neck even while under construction. They have staked out the north end of the property yesterday, presumably for survey. I know they did a traffic survey at 148th this time last year.

Too bad were not in super futuro world where a light rail stub plugged in would just be part of the utilities plan.

And some of the decractors bring good points. Sprawling westward expansion could suck the life out of some of this. The "neighborhood" is not a young as it used to be, lots of empty nesters if not elderly that built in the area when new in the 70s, 80s. This could help reverse the trend.

choke wrote:

bmt wrote:This is such an interesting project. I am not sure what to make of it. Part of me is excited, because if this is pulled off successfully it could be a model on how Omaha should grow as it continues to grow west and south west. However, the skeptic in me thinks this might be a little too ambitious for Noddle.

Also, if infill is considered urban sprawl, then should we upset with the urban sprawl happening at Aksarben Village as well? As far as I see it, this will draw mostly from people already in west O who like being in west O and wouldn't move to downtown anyways.

Precisely, I rarely go out to West Omaha and know plenty of people that rarely go downtown.

Yep. If i didnt have to work downtown, id never go down there. I thought of this positively, there may be new jobs which cuts off the tortuous commute.

I'm assuming most of you are on the Forgotten Omaha facebook page. Been surprised how many on there hate this development. Many criticizing Ak Sar Ben Village too.

Greg

Like I stated previously, I like the development but with mid-sized cities like Omaha, there is only so much development and growth to go around. As many of you have alluded to, this may be the demise of Oakview. I love new development but not at the expense of existing development in most cases.

If this can just be infill and not take away from any other developments, I am all for it.

skinzfan23 wrote:Like I stated previously, I like the development but with mid-sized cities like Omaha, there is only so much development and growth to go around. As many of you have alluded to, this may be the demise of Oakview. I love new development but not at the expense of existing development in most cases.

If this can just be infill and not take away from any other developments, I am all for it.

With or without this, I think Oak View's glory days are long since gone. Enclosed malls are never coming back. With Oak View and Westroads so close, one was going to fade. Even if they weren't so close, I really don't think Omaha was going to support in a big way, two enclosed malls.

Greg

This could have some contributing factor to the demise of Oak View, hard to say, but if the developer is worth their salt, they'll concentrate on bringing in businesses that cater to residents who live there more than (or at least equal to) businesses that create a regional shopping destination.

Make Oakview either a business park, data center, or more entertainment oriented instead of retail oriented.

I just met Fr. Steve Boes this morning and he was excited about the project. He says that Noddle told him it would be just like Aksarben Village, but didn't mention the steroids.

RNcyanide wrote:Make Oakview either a business park, data center, or more entertainment oriented instead of retail oriented.

I like the business park idea but why would you want to put a data center there? What company would go for that?

OmahaFan wrote:I like the business park idea but why would you want to put a data center there? What company would go for that?

Seriously? Southroads...CoSentry...it's Friday...steroids...gainz

That Data center is small and most companies are building energy efficient Data center's and they are usually bigger ,now maybe a company want's to make a smaller footprint data center wise and doesn't need that much space. I could see then a data center being built there!Though I think the Business park Idea would have a much more easier chance of getting built! That's a lot of land or it could be use to expand the Medical facilities over there! Could become a Medical park! That land has a lot of potential other then a empty mall!

Is Boys Town officially part of Omaha?

MTO wrote:Is Boys Town officially part of Omaha?

An incorporated village in Douglas County.

Greg S wrote:I'm assuming most of you are on the Forgotten Omaha facebook page. Been surprised how many on there hate this development. Many criticizing Ak Sar Ben Village too.

Greg

I don't do Facebook no way no how but maybe the reason there is disagreement there and not here is because they are more open and honest. Disagree with the herd here and you can guarantee the crowd will gang bang the person and maybe even cry to the moderators to have them banned or deleted. I can't count the posters I have seen on this site get gang banged just because they thought differently then the herd. Its the true reason why this site is pretty much dead except for the gang banger crew.

Calling people gang bangers is definitely the right way to inhibit discourse.

iamjacobm wrote:Calling people gang bangers is definitely the right way to inhibit discourse.

What would you prefer we call the group of people in here that attack every newcomer then. What word would fit your politically correct definition?

GRANDPASMUCKER wrote:

iamjacobm wrote:Calling people gang bangers is definitely the right way to inhibit discourse.

What would you prefer we call the group of people in here that attack every newcomer then. What word would fit your politically correct definition?

I wouldn't say we ever attack people personally here unless you do the same to us. Diversity of thought is encouraged for everyone, just don't be a dick about it. Sure there is plenty of debate here, but if you can't take a discussion of ideas, the adult world isn't your place. We have plenty of diverse thought, such as bigredmed, while super urbanist people like Streetsofomaha left because we didn't take his absolutism.

People are getting gang banged on here?

Oh my, I didn't know this was THAT kind of site

Meanwhile, back on topic.... Do we have an estimated date to start of this? Is it going to take the phased approach like AV? Expected completion?

MadMartin8 wrote:People are getting gang banged on here?

Oh my, I didn't know this was THAT kind of site

Meanwhile, back on topic.... Do we have an estimated date to start of this? Is it going to take the phased approach like AV? Expected completion?

I believe it's a 20 year phased time line.

GRANDPASMUCKER wrote:

iamjacobm wrote:Calling people gang bangers is definitely the right way to inhibit discourse.

What would you prefer we call the group of people in here that attack every newcomer then. What word would fit your politically correct definition?

I would say this: you do make valid points, but many messages get muddied up in the delivery. It isnt what is said, it is how it is said.