Omaha Forums

Proposed $1.2 billion mixed-use development would be 'unique' in west Omaha, planner says

Christopher Burbach / World-Herald staff writer wrote:A $1.2 billion development proposed for 192nd Street and West Dodge Road would create a bustling “gateway to western Omaha” and would include offices, stores, apartments and green space.

Dubbed Avenue One, it would be one of the largest developments of its kind in Omaha, according to the developers.

More than 180 acres straddling 192nd Street south of West Dodge Road would be developed, the equivalent of about 50 square city blocks. It would have a seven-acre central plaza at its heart, 26 acres of green space and more than 6 miles of walking and biking trails. More than 2,000 residential units and 1.3 million square feet of office and commercial space would be built.

I personally don't think this will come to fruition with the 144th development. But interesting.

it's almost becoming cliche. If you have an open plot of land, it needs a "mixed use commercial residential lifestyle center". At what point does the metro reach oversaturation on these things? I would argue we've already well crossed that line with everything that's already been build and has been announced.

Reminds me of another project from a KC developer. Smoke and mirrors.

omaha79 wrote:At what point does the metro reach oversaturation on these things?

Never! Different density ratios belong all over the metro, not to be monopolized by the business cores of Midtown and Downtown. The solution to many of our cities problems comes down to offering residents goods and services within their neighborhoods. It's what makes all the older neighborhoods of east Omaha so great, and west Omaha should have the same. These created neighborhoods may feel forced because they were not built up over time by a community of developers (and poorly integrate with the traffic patterns). But we have to continue walking down this path to get where we should be: a wonderfully mixed city of neighborhoods, rather than the vast suburban sprawl of the western hinterlands.

If you asked me which is more likely this or Gates Crossroads, I think my money would be on this.

Greg

This city just keeps saying F-You to it's core.

I like this idea though I think it's a response to the big project going on by Millard North High school. Little over the top but it should be good for Omaha. As for the center of the city we have plenty of area's like Midtown crossing and the Downtown. These places will give West Omaha in my view a new identity and will attract new business's to the area and possibly new a companies HQ. I live in the Midtown general area and I would like to see some more projects but space is limited down there to build new structures without removing the current tenants. I believe though that with UNMC we could see the saddle creek area redevelop with Mix use of Medical facilities and commercial facilities along with Apartments or even houses.

Hope it works out, looks like a really nice plan. And I wouldn't worry about the core. I imagine the number of people that will chose either DT or 192nd St to live and few are far between.

MTO wrote:This city just keeps saying F-You to it's core.

What boundaries would you give to the core?

Greg

I'll bet everything in my pocket to everything in your pocket that the final development is nothing like the proposal. Houses and apartments probably, one or two strip malls probably, a subway, a gas station, a store of some kind, but and maybe I'm jaded by what Dodge between 168th and 204th could have been and is I just don't see this ending up as well as proposed.

omaha79 wrote:it's almost becoming cliche.

I think we already passed that point. It's all just buzzwords and misspellede names.

MTO wrote:This city just keeps saying F-You to it's core.

If Omaha didn't annex Elkhorn, then it would be a story of how Elkhorn was expanding.

NovakOmaha wrote:I'll bet everything in my pocket to everything in your pocket that the final development is nothing like the proposal. Houses and apartments probably, one or two strip malls probably, a subway, a gas station, a store of some kind, but and maybe I'm jaded by what Dodge between 168th and 204th could have been and is I just don't see this ending up as well as proposed.

I agree, it won't be a "true" mixed use development.

Omaha_corn_burner wrote:

omaha79 wrote:it's almost becoming cliche.

I think we already passed that point. It's all just buzzwords and misspellede names.

MTO wrote:This city just keeps saying F-You to it's core.

If Omaha didn't annex Elkhorn, then it would be a story of how Elkhorn was expanding.

NovakOmaha wrote:I'll bet everything in my pocket to everything in your pocket that the final development is nothing like the proposal. Houses and apartments probably, one or two strip malls probably, a subway, a gas station, a store of some kind, but and maybe I'm jaded by what Dodge between 168th and 204th could have been and is I just don't see this ending up as well as proposed.

I agree, it won't be a "true" mixed use development.

Can't agree more with you on the Elkhorn part. If it wasn't Omaha expanding it would be how Elkhorn was and stealing money from the City of Omaha and preventing growth. I support aggressive annexation of land that stands in the way of Omaha's expansion. As if for Mix use who knows what it will finally turn out to be.

I'm already getting flashbacks to the original plans for Legacy... wasn't L Street Marketplace similar at one point too?

OmahaFan wrote:

Omaha_corn_burner wrote:

omaha79 wrote:it's almost becoming cliche.

I think we already passed that point. It's all just buzzwords and misspellede names.

MTO wrote:This city just keeps saying F-You to it's core.

If Omaha didn't annex Elkhorn, then it would be a story of how Elkhorn was expanding.

NovakOmaha wrote:I'll bet everything in my pocket to everything in your pocket that the final development is nothing like the proposal. Houses and apartments probably, one or two strip malls probably, a subway, a gas station, a store of some kind, but and maybe I'm jaded by what Dodge between 168th and 204th could have been and is I just don't see this ending up as well as proposed.

I agree, it won't be a "true" mixed use development.

Can't agree more with you on the Elkhorn part. If it wasn't Omaha expanding it would be how Elkhorn was and stealing money from the City of Omaha and preventing growth. I support aggressive annexation of land that stands in the way of Omaha's expansion. As if for Mix use who knows what it will finally turn out to be.

Just imagine what $1.2 billion would do downtown.,

MTO wrote:

OmahaFan wrote:

Omaha_corn_burner wrote:

omaha79 wrote:it's almost becoming cliche.

I think we already passed that point. It's all just buzzwords and misspellede names.

MTO wrote:This city just keeps saying F-You to it's core.

If Omaha didn't annex Elkhorn, then it would be a story of how Elkhorn was expanding.

NovakOmaha wrote:I'll bet everything in my pocket to everything in your pocket that the final development is nothing like the proposal. Houses and apartments probably, one or two strip malls probably, a subway, a gas station, a store of some kind, but and maybe I'm jaded by what Dodge between 168th and 204th could have been and is I just don't see this ending up as well as proposed.

I agree, it won't be a "true" mixed use development.

Can't agree more with you on the Elkhorn part. If it wasn't Omaha expanding it would be how Elkhorn was and stealing money from the City of Omaha and preventing growth. I support aggressive annexation of land that stands in the way of Omaha's expansion. As if for Mix use who knows what it will finally turn out to be.

Just imagine what $1.2 billion would do downtown.,

Find 180 acres of greenfield DT and this comment might be fair.

MTO wrote:Just imagine what $1.2 billion would do downtown.,

I have no idea what a private developer would do with 1.2 billion downtown. Build one tall building? Build 3 medium height buildings in North Downtown?
How much does the Capital District cost? How much did First National cost? I seriously have no idea what 1.2 billion would buy downtown.

EDIT : What the heck? I typed the letters N O D O and the website changed it to say North Downtown.

Omaha_corn_burner wrote:EDIT : What the heck? I typed the letters N O D O and the website changed it to say North Downtown.

N.O.D.O. Is a bad word and is censored

If you want downtown to be rebuilt and look nicer then tell the City to look for companies willing to locate here and by companies I don't mean retailers, or insurance companies. I mean tech companies or something that Omaha would benefit from. Plus where would we put a 1.2 Billion dollar project of similar size downtown? Can you find me a place like that? I don't think the Con agra land comes close!

I think this is a great development if it gets built as proposed. I'd like to see developments like this not viewed as "cliches," but simply as developments. I think it shows that our city, or at least our developers, are trending towards a forward thinking approach to development where consideration is given to more sustainable, quality of life driven spaces, rather than the antiquated sea of big boxes approach.

I don't think developments like this are detracting from the core; this is not a competing core. It's not simply that if more mixed use developments were built downtown, all the people and businesses who end up in suburban mixed use areas would be there instead. People and businesses who locate to mixed use developments away from downtown generally have their reasons. If anything, I would view this as a spoke to the hub that is downtown.

OmahaFan wrote:If you want downtown to be rebuilt and look nicer then tell the City to look for companies willing to locate here and by companies I don't mean retailers, or insurance companies. I mean tech companies or something that Omaha would benefit from. Plus where would we put a 1.2 Billion dollar project of similar size downtown? Can you find me a place like that? I don't think the Con agra land comes close!

Who said it needs to be spent one one thing? I'd love to see what 20 million would do to truly revamp and rebuild the GLM (IE; the leaky lagoon, the poorly rebuilt retaining walls, flatter event space, replacing the concrete walls with stone or at least stone textures). Personally, I loved the Waterplace Park in Providence; granted it was built around an actual river, not a man made ditch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterplac ... prov=sfla1

RNcyanide wrote:

OmahaFan wrote:If you want downtown to be rebuilt and look nicer then tell the City to look for companies willing to locate here and by companies I don't mean retailers, or insurance companies. I mean tech companies or something that Omaha would benefit from. Plus where would we put a 1.2 Billion dollar project of similar size downtown? Can you find me a place like that? I don't think the Con agra land comes close!

Who said it needs to be spent one one thing? I'd love to see what 20 million would do to truly revamp and rebuild the GLM (IE; the leaky lagoon, the poorly rebuilt retaining walls, flatter event space, replacing the concrete walls with stone or at least stone textures). Personally, I loved the Waterplace Park in Providence; granted it was built around an actual river, not a man made ditch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterplac ... prov=sfla1

Why would a private developer waste money on a city's public park?

Omaha_corn_burner wrote:

RNcyanide wrote:

OmahaFan wrote:If you want downtown to be rebuilt and look nicer then tell the City to look for companies willing to locate here and by companies I don't mean retailers, or insurance companies. I mean tech companies or something that Omaha would benefit from. Plus where would we put a 1.2 Billion dollar project of similar size downtown? Can you find me a place like that? I don't think the Con agra land comes close!

Who said it needs to be spent one one thing? I'd love to see what 20 million would do to truly revamp and rebuild the GLM (IE; the leaky lagoon, the poorly rebuilt retaining walls, flatter event space, replacing the concrete walls with stone or at least stone textures). Personally, I loved the Waterplace Park in Providence; granted it was built around an actual river, not a man made ditch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterplac ... prov=sfla1

Why would a private developer waste money on a city's public park?

If there was a way for them to make money off of it. I'm not saying it should be done at all, I'm pipe-dreamin' here.

iamjacobm wrote:Hope it works out, looks like a really nice plan. And I wouldn't worry about the core. I imagine the number of people that will chose either DT or 192nd St to live and few are far between.

I agree..

I also agree with a comment Novak made- what finally gets developed on this land, probably won't match up completely with the proposal..

When I first heard of this development news last night on KETV 7..my first thought was, wait till this hits the forum and que the negativity.. How's that for jaded? ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

This will ultimately take the form of what is off of 144th and Dodge. Multiple midrise office buildings, a sea of parking for each, and a few restaurants close by. The only addition is likely a few sprawling apartment complexes.

Be interesting to see how this would impact West Towne Southe Farmes Village or whatever at 144th and Pacific.

I'm admittedly not very familiar with this part of Omaha, but it seems like a very nice suburb. Initially I thought it was a little short on detached homes in the vicinity but from Google Maps it looks like those are already in place and there are a number of streets with open connections to this land for direct access. If it comes together as 75% of what they proposed it should be a good neighborhood for Omaha.

Edit: If Youngman Lake is the Memorial Park of West O they should build a swirling green pedestrian bridge across West Dodge too!

Frankly, I would have liked the name "Avenue Q" better.

Omaha_corn_burner wrote:

MTO wrote:Just imagine what $1.2 billion would do downtown.,

I have no idea what a private developer would do with 1.2 billion downtown. Build one tall building? Build 3 medium height buildings in North Downtown?
How much does the Capital District cost? How much did First National cost? I seriously have no idea what 1.2 billion would buy downtown.

EDIT : What the heck? I typed the letters N O D O and the website changed it to say North Downtown.

I can't find figures on First National, but the Capital District, at least initially, was projected to cost around $176 million. The Sears tower costed $810 million in today's dollars, though things have become more expensive. The Wanda Vista tower, which will be around 1,200 ft, will come in just under $1 billion. So $1.2 billion is huge.

HR Paperstacks wrote:

Omaha_corn_burner wrote:EDIT : What the heck? I typed the letters N O D O and the website changed it to say North Downtown.

N.O.D.O. Is a bad word and is censored

Try typing a well-known dysphemism for Council Bluffs.

You aint seen nothing yet folks. West Omaha is not 144th & something anymore. West Omaha has moved to 180th & beyond. There is going to be 10 times more money thrown around out there then anywhere else.

I had completely forgot about this underwhelming announcement in the area as well.

http://eomahaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 7&start=80

Also, 192nd and 144th are really the last developable interchanges on West Dodge before we hit the Elkhorn River, which should push development north and south instead of west. Make me even more glad that they are trying something more than the traditional office or retail development. Last few chances to do something special on Omaha's "Main Street."

iamjacobm wrote:I had completely forgot about this underwhelming announcement in the area as well.

http://eomahaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 7&start=80

Also, 192nd and 144th are really the last developable interchanges on West Dodge before we hit the Elkhorn River, which should push development north and south instead of west. Make me even more glad that they are trying something more than the traditional office or retail development. Last few chances to do something special on Omaha's "Main Street."

To me it looks like Fountain West from that other thread is a part of this development:

Haha. I got a huge chuckle aftet reading that posted thread on the previous proposal.

A flood of crying because we were wasting a chance on a higher-density mixed use development. Then this gets proposed and guess what? Crying because a high-density mixed-use development replaces that slot.

I think this a great opportunity for some of you to do a little self-reflection

Grading has begun.

Some platting and mention of office development here. Could be seeing construction this summer.

omaha79 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:43 am it's almost becoming cliche. If you have an open plot of land, it needs a "mixed use commercial residential lifestyle center". At what point does the metro reach oversaturation on these things? I would argue we've already well crossed that line with everything that's already been build and has been announced.

I get how you feel. It does start to feel cliche and typical -- thus, now unexciting & yawn-worthy. It also makes me feel like the way I heard Las Colinas, TX described before by an author: So planned out, so artificial, such an attempt for idealistic perfection, that you almost wouldn't be surprised to look up and see & hear fake birds w/ mechanical chirps wired into the branches of the development's trees.

RockHarbor wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:49 pm

omaha79 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:43 am it's almost becoming cliche. If you have an open plot of land, it needs a "mixed use commercial residential lifestyle center". At what point does the metro reach oversaturation on these things? I would argue we've already well crossed that line with everything that's already been build and has been announced.

I get how you feel. It does start to feel cliche and typical -- thus, now unexciting & yawn-worthy. It also makes me feel like the way I heard Las Colinas, TX described before by an author: So planned out, so artificial, such an attempt for idealistic perfection, that you almost wouldn't be surprised to look up and see & hear fake birds w/ mechanical chirps wired into the branches of the development's trees.

I hope they do become yawn worthy. That to me would signify they’ve become the norm in suburban development rather than the exception. Much like any new subdivision built currently, no matter how hard the developer’s marketing department tries to make it sound special, is yawn worthy. Suburban mixed use development planning is not always ideal, but these developments are often better designed than the separated use subdivision/strip mall formula that is more common in suburban Omaha.

TitosBuritoBarn wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:54 am

RockHarbor wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:49 pm

omaha79 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:43 am it's almost becoming cliche. If you have an open plot of land, it needs a "mixed use commercial residential lifestyle center". At what point does the metro reach oversaturation on these things? I would argue we've already well crossed that line with everything that's already been build and has been announced.

I get how you feel. It does start to feel cliche and typical -- thus, now unexciting & yawn-worthy. It also makes me feel like the way I heard Las Colinas, TX described before by an author: So planned out, so artificial, such an attempt for idealistic perfection, that you almost wouldn't be surprised to look up and see & hear fake birds w/ mechanical chirps wired into the branches of the development's trees.

I hope they do become yawn worthy. That to me would signify they’ve become the norm in suburban development rather than the exception. Much like any new subdivision built currently, no matter how hard the developer’s marketing department tries to make it sound special, is yawn worthy. Suburban mixed use development planning is not always ideal, but these developments are often better designed than the separated use subdivision/strip mall formula that is more common in suburban Omaha.

I get it, and I sometimes get tired of the typical suburban sprawl patterns (single family housing, cul-de-sacs, strip malls, ect), too. But, something about "new urbanism" in the suburbs doesn't satisfy me in some way. Sometimes it feels more "empty" & "sterile" to me than the typical sprawl, while ironically trying to be more meaningful, and in the mean time, the development breaks the rhythm of the suburban landscape.

I like more new urban blocks fit into older areas, like inner-city Omaha and old town Millard, personally. (I also don't see how they are truly saving so much space. A typical strip mall, and a batch of suburban apartment buildings, and some common areas take up about the same space. Putting stores at the base of "new urbanism" style apartments can eliminate the space a strip mall takes up, though.)

A good alternative I do really like, something I see they're doing in expensive, limited-land California suburbs, is kinda a look & design that continues the rhythm & look of traditional suburban sprawl, but at the same time, is also very mindful of wasting space, and with a goal of packing people in. I've attached some Google Maps 3-D views to show what I mean. Big, massive, blocky, heavy complexes of apartments/condos are put in, softened with Spanish or Euro architectural touches & landscaping. Some even have big, multi-story parking garages within the center, hidden nicely by the perimeter of pretty-looking buildings around it. (In the 2nd picture, near the right side of the picture, near the middle, you can see the big parking garage.) It also doesn't have the risk of turning out "empty" and "sterile" to me, because it isn't trying to be anything special or meaningful to begin with. It isn't trying to hearken back to the supposed "good ole' days" we are trying to gain back, to introduce suburbanites to a new "better" lifestyle. It's simply using the limited land in a smart, profitable way.

I think Omaha has too much of a "block & grid mindset" when a designer proposals any "new urbanism" proposal for West Omaha. A few are fine (imo), but not a bunch. I don't like rigid, very straight-line-ordered residential complexes of blocky, long, flat-roofed buildings plopped down within a vast built-up landscape of curvy streets, cul-de-sacs, gables, peaks, & chimneys. Why can't they do what they do in California? Why can't they just simply pack-in people more in buildings spaced closely together (like sardines in a can), on streets that still curve and meander, and in buildings decked with typical suburban architectural touches of roofs, chimneys, shutters, gables, ect? That looks better to me, is more sensitive to the existing surroundings, and makes more sense (to me).

After that last post last night, it hit me that I think Des Moines is doing the same thing that those California suburbs are doing -- yet, projects on a smaller scale, and with maybe quite not as tight of spaces. Around Jordan Creek Mall in West Des Moines there is some surprising "suburban density" going on. Just like those CA suburbs, the typical rhythm & look of suburbia (we are now very used to) continues onward w/ new construction, yet it's like the "nob is turned up" in things like density, smarter spacing, and common areas. Des Moines just always "gets it" in my opinion.