Leytham, A New Traditional Neighborhood

[Big E]

From the OWH:

New neighborhood designed to fight sprawl

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=46&u_sid=2234176

Herb Freeman envisions a neighborhood northwest of Omaha that has a town center, homes with porches out front and garages to the rear, narrow streets, and places to work, play and shop within a five-minute walk.

[Uffda]

According to the article this is planned for the NE corner of 168th and State. On the NW corner there has been a development in the works for the past year. Utilities and streets in but no houses at this time. I think the sign said $250,000 and up.

[midtown charlie]

Most importantly they are looking for our feedback. We all seem somewhat opinionated so now is the time.

http://www.whatsnewonstatestreet.com/


Hopefully this is so popular that the city finally enacts all of the ideas from Omaha by design. Great project for many many reasons.

30% of new homebuyers would prefer this.....I would bet that % will at least double once it is built and people can experience it first hand.


I think this should probably have it's own thread since this is going to be a fun one to watch them build.

[DTO Luv]

It's still stupid to me. Here's why.

They said they wanted to build areas like pre-WWII. So even if they do have houses up to the street with garages in the back and on 'alleys', they are still missing one vital componant. Areas like Dundee, Benson, and South Omaha were all connected to other areas with rail.

So this new development may 'look' like South Omaha or Benson but they won't work like the old way used to. It still on 168th and State. People will still have to drive a long ways to work, shop, and other areas for recreation. It's like buying fancy new car with no wheels. It looks nice but does it do it's function? No.

[Coyote]

The New Urbanism concept of "new traditional development." New Urbanism is a planning movement that seeks to combat sprawl by re-creating the type of design used before World War II - compact towns and villages with common areas that encourage walking and a diversity of people and uses. The vehicle is de-emphasized.

I would like to see how it works out before condemning the idea D'Shawn.

Developments using new traditional development principles have been built in 41 states, including Florida, Maryland, Tennessee, Oregon, Massachusetts, Texas and Missouri.

Should be an interesting project to follow.

[midtown charlie]

I agree DTO. Projects as great as they might look don't fight sprawl unless the city has comprehensive design standards that affect all new areas. This is why I am glad they are building it so that whichever developers are dragging their heals on the last remaining "Omaha by Design" initiatives might see why they are important and good.

[Harpoon]

You want to see how it works? Drive over to Lincoln on I-80 and get off at the I-180 exit...go north instead of heading towards downtown. Go through the stoplight and you will come to Fallbrook, of which part of it is designed with new urbanist principles. Nice greenspaces that the houses look over, wide sidewalks, and alleys which the garages are accessed. There are plans to develop the commercial aspect sometime in the near future, but right now it is mostly houses. The angled parking already exists where the commercial area will go, but it will take a little while.

Colorado has been building these for years now, and Dallas has many of them as well.

[Uffda]

Here is a development that was started in my hometown (pop approx 7000)

http://www.tallgrassvillage.com/Homes.htm

It doesnt have the business development in it but it would be a max 10 min walk to grocery store.

The houses are set back from the street --- garages are accessed from an alley and front/side yards are the play area as there isnt really a backyard .

[j4nu]

I have always loved this type of neighborhood. The first thing like this I've ever experienced is on the North side of Lincoln and is called Fallbrook.

http://www.fallbrookusa.com/pages/concept.html

[eomaha]

Denver's Stapleton

[the1wags]

Well that definately looks more urban than the standard burb subdivision. I think that this could be a cool development with some good ideas in there. I'd like to see the return of the "town square" with retail/entertainment/services located around it, then place the housing around that.

[midtown charlie]

The developments link above has a bevy of info. I still can't figure out why this guy had to show slides to get people to buy off on it. (and I am not referring to showing these slides to the public). This seemed to be geared towards the development community. This looks like the same presentation (basically) as what Omaha By Design put together. Probably used the same company to help them put it together. Anyway......there is some cool info for those not entirely familiar with the principles of Traditional Neighborhood development or New Urbanism. I hope all of the developers read this guys presentation because it makes a very strong case for traditional development.

The following link has a listing of all of the known Traditional Neighborhood developments (New Urbanism) that exist around the country. Looking at this list makes me think that Omaha has a chance to really put itself in the forefront with it's Omaha by Design. Each of the projects are nice but a city that is developed with these principles in mind would stand out in the U.S.

http://www.tndtownpaper.com/neighborhoods.htm



Here's to hoping that this development finally gets Omaha to live by it's own principles.

[midtown charlie]

I am not sure if people saw this or not but here is a chance to win $500 just by having an opinion and being creative....I gave my suggestion NOSSASOMA for North of State Street and South of Military Ave.....Just kidding!! Sounds more like an arch enemy of the U.S. than a town center.

The Freeman Property. What's New on State Street? That new traditional neighborhood. These are just a sample of the ways participants have been referring to this project over the past few days, due to the uncomfortable reality that, as of now, it has no formal name.

Will that change over the course of the charrette? That remains to be seen. But pursuit of the elusive name is in high gear and new ideas are actively encouraged. In fact, Founder Herb Freeman has announced a bounty of $500 to anyone with the winning submission

Submit you ideas here here:

http://www.whatsnewonstatestreet.com/info/ideas_01.html

[Coyote]

[Harpoon]

His website is actually pretty good and gives a "play-by-play" account on what is happening this week while the designers are creating the development plan.

[eomaha]

No kidding... it's really quite amazing what they're doing here. Hopefully this will start a trend in Omaha suburban development planning.

[midtown charlie]

Is anyone going to the public presentation tonight. I can't make it myself.


Saturday, September 9
Design and Production
Final Presentation, 5:00-6:30pm
Regency Lodge

More speicific details/illustrations are supposed to be available tomorrow (Sunday) on their website.

[loyalomahan]

Graphics from final presentation

[Coyote]

I hope that they can pull this off. Got to love the 'farmer's market' in that last pic!

[the1wags]

That looks like a vast improvement over your standard suburbia. I hope this sets the standard for future west O growth.

[midtown charlie]

I find it funny that if people are willing to accept a little more density they will get more in return. More greenspace, More trees, more scenery, more things for them or their kids to do within walking distance.

Less Yard = More playing area for the kids....hmmm how does that work....

The only drawback that I see is that while I personally like the communal angle that this development is taking it may turn some people off from this type of development. Too radical??? (note the sarcasm) Some of these homes really don't have much of yard so much as a shared commons area. That will appeal to some but to others it might scare them away from this type of development altogether. It would be like saying that for now on all new homes will back up to a golf course. I'd be turned off on this new fangled development if that were the case. I guess as long as they offer some of the homes with private yards that will fix it. They probably are.

Since this is the first development of it's kind in Omaha it will either spur more of these throughout Omaha or scare the citizens back to 1985. I suspect this is why the city was all over this charette process. There is much more to this than this one development.....like perhaps finally implementing the most important piece of Omaha by Deisgn. "the 4 corners design" I view this as the the proving grounds if you will. If they can make this work and show developers how it works in Omaha then maybe they will be less resistant to it's implementation in the design standards. It appeared to me on last week's grow Omaha show that the host/s had not completely bought off on it yet either. In some ways it is good to be 15 years behind the rest of the country you get to see what works and what doesn't. Never thought I would see myself type that.....hmmm

[Harpoon]

Less Yard = More playing area for the kids....hmmm how does that work....

These developments have been happening all over the country. You get more playing area because there is shared open space that is available to everyone in the community, and a very large amount of it too. This is in contrast to a small 10,000 square foot lot that is private. Think "Boston Commons" or "Central Park", except on a smaller scale. Kids can play games of football without running into houses and bushes and there is plenty of space to run around and chase each other. This concept just makes too much sense, yes they cost more up front, but the long term returns are astronomical.

[midtown charlie]

Sorry my sarcasm is not always very obvious.

[omahastylee459]

what are those cream colored lots on the drawing? PLEASE tell me those arent parking lots but places for homes and such.

[Coyote]

Those are the lawns that chose the grass that turns brown in the winter - reverting to the retro 60's phenomena.

Just unsold lots ready for fill-in.

[DTO Luv]

I still don't think it's all that great. Doesn't do much for me.

[Coyote]

Oh come on DTO! Look at those renditions again. What is there not to like about this development. Sure there are no high rises for the height obsessed. But look at the greenspaces. I hope more developers would subscribe to these ideals. Look at the Chalco Hills area, Hearthstones developments. Now that does nothing for me.

[Herb]

Hello to you all.

My name really IS Herb and I am the founder of the new traditional neighborhood that we will create at 168th and State Street. I welcome your comments and views and suggestions. I am excited about participating in a continuing dialog with you all. Feel free to write to me directly at herb@FullCircleVentures.com. More soon.

[almighty_tuna]

Welcome to the forum, Herb!

[Coyote]

Welcome to the forum Herb!
I for one am looking forward to seeing how this development unfolds.

[greenbuilder]

My only concern is the architecture is too Colonial for Nebraska. If you look at Dundee, Benson, Florence there is a mix of architecture from Colonial, Craftsman, Tudor, Victorian, Prairie. Which all can be incorporated into a New TND and work together and not distract from each other. I can't wait for this to happen. I've already started to design my new home as long as they accept my Craftsman Architecture. We have always been known as a melting pot for society, which is directly tied to our architectual styles. Good Job Herb!!

[midtown charlie]

omahastylee459 said:

what are those cream colored lots on the drawing? PLEASE tell me those arent parking lots but places for homes and such

The ones on the corners are Walgreens and the ones in between are starbucks.

[greenbuilder]

They are lots, they just did not take the time to draw houses on every lot!!!!!!

[midtown charlie]

Aren't most neighborhoods except for Dundee mostly done in one style.

Happy Hollow = Tudor
Country Club = Tudor
Field Club = Isn't there a lot of Victorian??

Neighborhoods typically represent the period in which they were built. Too me it's not such a bad thing. If it were built with varying styles that wouldn't bother me either as long as it was unified.

[Coyote]

New neighborhood concept has look, feel of an earlier era

During a five-day planning session that ended Saturday in Omaha, from 10 to 50 people daily joined the experts brought in by developer Herb Freeman to design a new traditional neighborhood at 168th and State Streets.

• Connie Spellman, director of Omaha By Design, a private effort to raise local building design standards.

"This is a perfect example of what we're calling walkable residential neighborhoods. To see the concept brought to Omaha is so great. It's exciting to see someone with the vision and courage to try something new.

• Christian Christensen, president of Bluestone Development, the developer of downtown's Rows at SoMa.

"This is great, very exciting. I've seen this in other markets, and I think it will be 10 times better than they're able to present.

[Herb]

In his September 5th post, midtown charlie wonders about the presentation I created on the benefits and principles of traditional neighborhood development. You may find that presentation on the project website here:

http://www.WhatsNewonStateStreet.com/info/day_01.html

I created this presentation first of all to educate myself. I am a teacher by training and history, so creating this presentation came naturally to me as a way of learning. They say that the best way to truly learn something is to teach it. That is what I did. I took every picture myself except the two of Mashpee Commons and Habersham on slide 33 of the presentation. I found all the site plans, renderings, charts, etc. on the web during my research. No outside consultants were harmed in the making of this presentation.

Another purpose of the presentation was to confirm that the principles of traditional neighborhood development could be implemented in the current regulatory environment. I did not want to bring in a team of world class urban designers and planners, and have them create a wonderful plan only to be told that significant aspects of the design could not be implemented. So I gave the presentation in early July to planning department, public works, parks and fire department staff. I can say that without exception our city staff members were very enthusiastic about seeing a project develop that would embody the principles of the “new traditional neighborhood.” I was told that every principle of the TND could be implemented under the current regulations. I was both relieved and encouraged, and so I resolved to hire the PlaceMaker’s team http://www.placemakers.com, bring them all to Omaha (you can find their resumes here:
http://www.WhatsNewonStateStreet.com/do ... esumes.pdf ) and begin design work on the project.

A third purpose of the presentation is public awareness. To that end I gave the presentation in August to the Omaha by Design Advisory Board. Again and not surprisingly, the principles of the TND were understood and the benefits appreciated. To further public awareness, I put the presentation on the project website at the link above so all members of the public could access it and begin to learn in some depth just what a TND is and what benefits flow from traditional neighborhood design.

Thank you for welcoming me to this forum and I look forward to the dialog with you all.

Herb

[Herb]

greenbuilder is quite correct. The lots in the plan are cream colored. Not all have buildings drawn on them. The buildings shown are representative of what could be built.

[Herb]

greenbuilder wonders if the architecture that I envision is too colonial for Nebraska. That is a wonderful point to discuss.

Let’s go back in time nearly 15 years ago to 1992. That is when my wife (now deceased) and I had in mind to build a house of a particular style, the Georgian style. We had traveled extensively along the East Coast and developed a strong affinity for that style. We knew also that we wanted architectural authenticity. So we did not want to build our Georgian house in a conventional subdivision to have it surrounded by houses of the Tudor, French provincial, Italianate, Prairie, modern or just “McMansion” styles.

We believed then, as I still believe even more strongly now, that all those styles would fight each other. So we began looking for land upon which to build our home. We came upon the 160 acres on State Street at 168th. That was then waaaay out in the country. The owner would not sell just a part of it, so we had to buy the whole piece. As you can see from the site plan, we put our house right in the middle of the quarter. That is the back ground. Now, let us return to the question of the “architectural focus” for this new traditional neighborhood.

I have walked the streets of quite a few new traditional neighborhoods around the country and one of the distinct “feelings” I frequently get is a case of “too-many-styles.” It is as though the developers and builders are trying to appeal to all tastes out of fear of losing any sales. I think that this does not create a “Best Loved Place.” I am of the opinion now as I was back in the early 1990’s that fewer, more coherent architectural styles create a better neighborhood.

That does not mean architectural boredom or bland-sameness at all. I intend that the architectural styles in this new traditional neighborhood shall be of a focused yet broad range of styles that include the true colonial, Georgian, Federal, Adam, Greek Revival and neo-classical, Charleston single-house, Colonial Revival, Cape Cod, and southern national styles. This will, I believe, help create a feeling of place that conventional subdivisions with their architectural-chaos lack (if one can even use the term “architectural” at all).

The principles of creating a great Traditional Neighborhood go from greater scale to finer scale and therefore involve not only the entire site and the green ways and the streets and the blocks and the lots but also and to a very great extent the houses and the architectural details of the houses. It is said of our Most Loved Places that “the God is in the details.” When the houses and the great detailing that makes a house architecturally wonderful do not fight, the details and the houses combine synergistically to create a “Best Loved Place.”

I think this article from the PlaceMakers website will help to advance the discussion on the nature of the Best Love Places and the role of repetition and a narrower range of architectural styles:

http://www.placemakers.com/library/Prin ... tition.pdf

greenbuilder, it is not a question at all about right or wrong. One architectural style is not intrinsically “better” than another. It is just that too many divergent styles all in one place tend to fight each other and detract from the totality of the place. I hope you will consider joining us out on State Street in one of the many styles that will create the neighborhood, but if you are unequivocal in your desire for your craftsman bungalow, I hope you find a great place to build it. Thank you for your interest in and support of the broader goals I intend to accomplish.

Herb

[redfield]

It still on 168th and State. People will still have to drive a long ways to work, shop, and other areas for recreation. It's like buying fancy new car with no wheels. It looks nice but does it do it's function? No.

Actually.....no, you won't have to drive your car to shopping, entertainment, and for some, to work.

A significant portion of this development is retail and commercial....but with apartments and condos above(like village point should/could have been).

The plans call for a grocery store, and many other needed retail/services, within the development. There will be live/work units, where a small shop or service oriented company can live above their office. For those that work elsewhere in west omaha, yeah, they will have to drive to work, but when they get home, they can walk to the bar, the grocery store, the post office, a restaurant, etc...

Will it completely eliminate the need for a car? Not for most, but it will DECREASE everybody in the neighborhoods reliance on the automobile.

[redfield]

Hi Herb!!!!!!!!!

It is just that too many divergent styles all in one place tend to fight each other and detract from the totality of the place.

Amen.

It is the continuity of the style among the housing and commercial structures that will create an itentity for the neighborhood.

That said, there is a lot of variety that is gained through the variation of size and housing types, which will make it so much more interesting. Today's typical subdivisions may allow different "architectural styles", but when every house is roughly the same size, and roughly the same color.........yawn........zzzzzzzzzzzzz