DISCUSSION: Werner Park - Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

West Omaha, Sarpy and Nebraska metro counties.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby iamjacobm » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:01 pm

Evidence like that is why Werner Park exists. As much as I would like an active ballpark downtown empty seats ruin the live experience. It is why UNO is building small, why Werner is small. Memphis downsized, OKC has tarps over seats in their AAA park. Even MLB is getting in on it, Cleveland is cutting 7000 seats and 16 suites from their stadium. In college football Baylor, Cal and Kentucky all went smaller, there are probably more that I don't know too.

Some times a sellout at 7000 is better than a 9000 crowd with 5000 empty seats.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby skinzfan23 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:11 pm

I definitely agree. Probably even more so for indoor venues. At least with baseball you can put a tarp with advertising over it or leave some outfield seats empty but with indoor arenas that seating goes all the way around, it is harder to disguise without it looking silly or killing the acoustics.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Omaha_Gabe » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:28 pm

Same concept as hotels. It's all about Revenue Management. Having a lot of rooms in a hotel have higher operational costs, building a sufficient amount in order to fill and remain most profitable at the optimal price point. Im surprised stadiums took this long to catch the concept.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby GetUrban » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:13 pm

Curious if overall attendance has declined at Pro sporting events in general? It would be interesting to see that stat along with venue size and if overall attendance increases after smaller venues open. I would guess Storm Chasers attract more to their new stadium because it feels more lively, right?
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby iamjacobm » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:33 pm

Just by a quick look at the years available 5 of the top 6 attendance years were at Werner Park. The last year at Rosenblatt got good numbers.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Linkin5 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:46 pm

GetUrban wrote:Curious if overall attendance has declined at Pro sporting events in general? It would be interesting to see that stat along with venue size and if overall attendance increases after smaller venues open. I would guess Storm Chasers attract more to their new stadium because it feels more lively, right?


Both Cleveland Indians and Rockies have decreased capacity to add suites in their upper levels this year.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:26 am

There is no question the Chasers made the right move in going to Werner Park. I don't think they would have stayed in the area if the only option was TD. Even at the 'blatt, covering the seats with the tarps did not help much.

There does seem to be a movement to small stadiums for football and baseball. Even the Yankee's downsized.

The NHL and NBA though seem to be steady in the 20k range or so.

I do think UNO will really regret not building their new arena somewhere in the 9-11k range. I think they will sell out their season tickets for the upcoming season.

Greg

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby MadMartin8 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:48 pm

Greg S wrote:The NHL and NBA though seem to be steady in the 20k range or so.

I do think UNO will really regret not building their new arena somewhere in the 9-11k range. I think they will sell out their season tickets for the upcoming season.

Greg



I think some of the newer NHL arenas have go to the smaller side too though....? I mean, the Islander's new home is pretty small (It's actually smaller than the CLC). As is Winnipeg's (Also smaller than the CLC). I suppose Detroit's new arena will be similar in size to the Joe.

I agree on the UNO arena though.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:30 pm

Yeah Detroit's is supposed to be 20k. The Islanders are moving to Barclay Center where the Nets play and going down about 200 in attendance. It is smaller than the Clink (though a lot more premium seat options).

Winnipeg is definitely on the smaller side of the new arenas.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby iamjacobm » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:56 pm

A little digging and it looks like OKC took almost 1000 out of their arena recently, Milwaukee's new arena will only be 17K down from the nearly 19K the current one holds, Sacramento's new arena will be 17K 300 less than the old one, San Francisco's replacement for Oakland's arena will hold 18K about 1500 less than the current one.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Linkin5 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:03 pm

As well just saw Atlanta Braves are building a new ballpark it will be 40,000 seats which is 9,000 less than Turner Field.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:06 pm

The new Las Vegas arena that they are currently doing a season ticket holder drive for an NHL team will seat 20k.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Linkin5 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:25 pm

Greg S wrote:The new Las Vegas arena that they are currently doing a season ticket holder drive for an NHL team will seat 20k.

Greg


I heard a NHL franchise has about zero chance of happening, they were talking about all the die hards have signed up as pledges for season tickets at about 10,000 but there is not much more interest.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby MadMartin8 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:01 pm

Linkin5 wrote:
Greg S wrote:The new Las Vegas arena that they are currently doing a season ticket holder drive for an NHL team will seat 20k.

Greg


I heard a NHL franchise has about zero chance of happening, they were talking about all the die hards have signed up as pledges for season tickets at about 10,000 but there is not much more interest.


I think Seattle would be a better spot for an NHL team than Vegas.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby skinzfan23 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:52 am

Here is a picture of the new scoreboard from the Storm Chasers facebook page:

Image

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby MadMartin8 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:47 am

skinzfan23 wrote:Here is a picture of the new scoreboard from the Storm Chasers facebook page:

Image



Looks good!
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:15 pm

The new video board is fantastic.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Al Buterol » Sat May 30, 2015 11:05 pm

When will the development come around the park? Some signs but no mixed use or other digging other than the homes.

Anything in the works?

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Trips » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:52 pm

BHI Developers took down the house on their property southwest of the stadium. That was a month ago but nothing since.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Coyote » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:48 pm

Trips wrote:BHI Developers took down the house on their property southwest of the stadium. That was a month ago but nothing since.


It made for good practice for the Papillion Fire Dept.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby HskrFanMike » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:52 pm

iamjacobm wrote:Just by a quick look at the years available 5 of the top 6 attendance years were at Werner Park. The last year at Rosenblatt got good numbers.

Look at the Royals attendance numbers in the years after Martie Cordaro took over as GM. 10% increases every year, it seemed. Flat since moving out to BFE.

Playing downtown, they'd be probably be drawing 450,000 or more by now. We also wouldn't have nearly as many tents this weekend either, because buildings would have been constructed on parking lots.

I know I have a minority view on this...but two ballparks are less than one IMHO.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby skinzfan23 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:38 pm

We have gone round and round about it but I think the majority consensus is that large of a stadium wouldn't have worked for AAA baseball. Look at all the minor league stadiums in the country. None of them are building large, in fact, many of them have recently downsized to offer more amenities for fans just as Werner does. Could Werner someday be larger, absolutely, but for right now, I think the stadium is the perfect size for the Storm Chasers. And of course, we all know that the CWS needs at least as much seating as it has now.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:07 am

If Omaha had gone with just one stadium I think you see 3 probably outcomes.

Honestly I think the most likely outcome is the team moves, most likely to Houston suburb of Sugarland Texas.

2nd they do go to TD but within a few years start campaigning again for a new stadium, when it becomes apparent to everybody that it does not work for minor league baseball (the team's owners and management already knew this, they would have been giving it a try to show the rest of us).

3rd they go to TD and then don't get the new stadium and eventually move.

TD just doesn't work for anything except the CWS. It was designed specifically and only with that in mind. We've joking called it McStadium, and Sharp and Benning refer to it as the Corporate Cookie Cutter, and it's that way per the NCAA. Not only do the features and size not match what minor league baseball is all about, MECA doesn't work for them either. In no other minor league arrangement does a team have to report to a entity like MECA. Look at the MECA leases with UNO and CU. MECA gets the concessions and parking. A minor league team would want control and to host other events (like the Chasers have done and been successful with at Werner (UNO baseball, Bellevue U, high school games, state tournament, etc).

I'm a huge Martie Cordaro fan, but I fail to see how he could have worked his magic to get 450,000 to TD. At Rosenblatt they had much friendlier lease than what MECA offers (and we all know MECA bows to no one). It enabled them to be more flexible in what they offered. That's off the table at TD. With a 24,000 seat stadium, you just can't develop a season ticket base. There is no reason to knowing you can get seats for every game. Without that base, you don't have a solid base crowd for each and every game. That makes it near impossible to get 450k per season. The only thing you do get is you can get that one huge crowd a year for the 4th of July fireworks game.

The atmosphere in that stadium outside the CWS is awful. With the exception of a big giveaway game (tickets) and the Huskers, CU games are brutal from a fan's standpoint. I've been to a few, usually with free tickets from work (except for the NU games), and there is just no life there. My kids won't go with me anymore, except for my oldest who loves NU. If CU is not playing Nebraska, they pass. I don't have that issue with them for the Chasers games, and the difference is the ballpark experience. You could add a few inflatables in the outfield at TD but that's it. Even with 5k there, just too big, no crowd to feed off of. No berm seating.

If the current team left, no one else would come. Why would they? There would be better offers all over the country. Stadium size and design, concessions, parking, control of the stadium, would all be negatives for a team looking to replace them here. And you have to deal with losing 3 weeks in one of your best months to the CWS.

Would anybody be surprised to hear CU start talking in the next 5 to 10 years about building their own baseball facility?

Me personally, I'm really glad we have the CWS for the forseeable future, and TD gave us that. It's been rough as far as how it's played (hopefully the new ball helps this year). It's been interesting how the move downtown hurt the Old Market more than it helped it. The area around TD has failed to benefit for year round stuff for the most part. We still get a lot of "temporary" stores and such. Only a few have been able to make a go of it there year round. From a fan perspective, I'd much rather watch a non-CWS game at Werner than TD. With all of the homes now under construction, the future of the area and the Chasers themselves is very bright at their current location.

Greg

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby skinzfan23 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:36 am

Well said Greg!

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby MadMartin8 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:36 pm

Greg S wrote:.....The atmosphere in that stadium outside the CWS is awful.....

....Me personally, I'm really glad we have the CWS for the forseeable future, and TD gave us that. It's been rough as far as how it's played (hopefully the new ball helps this year). It's been interesting how the move downtown hurt the Old Market more than it helped it. The area around TD has failed to benefit for year round stuff for the most part. We still get a lot of "temporary" stores and such. Only a few have been able to make a go of it there year round...
Greg



This all changes when Shamrock is completed, not to mention the development that the Shamrock may in turn spur. Not sure how the stadium hurt the Old Market though.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:01 pm

MadMartin8 wrote:
Greg S wrote:.....The atmosphere in that stadium outside the CWS is awful.....

....Me personally, I'm really glad we have the CWS for the forseeable future, and TD gave us that. It's been rough as far as how it's played (hopefully the new ball helps this year). It's been interesting how the move downtown hurt the Old Market more than it helped it. The area around TD has failed to benefit for year round stuff for the most part. We still get a lot of "temporary" stores and such. Only a few have been able to make a go of it there year round...
Greg



This all changes when Shamrock is completed, not to mention the development that the Shamrock may in turn spur. Not sure how the stadium hurt the Old Market though.


The atmosphere in the stadium I was referring to was inside the stadium other than the CWS. Meaning Bluejay games (or any where the stadium is 75% or more empty). Shamrock will be good for pre and post CWS games, not sure it helps for the Jays. Crowds are too small and it's a ways away.

The merchants in the Old Market have stated that since the series moved, they've seen a noticeable drop in business. After the games at Rosenblatt, fans would move to other areans-Old Market and Pauli's were a couple of them. Now they seem to stay more in the area around the stadium.

Greg
Last edited by Greg S on Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby MadMartin8 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:27 pm

Greg S wrote:
MadMartin8 wrote:
Greg S wrote:.....The atmosphere in that stadium outside the CWS is awful.....

....Me personally, I'm really glad we have the CWS for the forseeable future, and TD gave us that. It's been rough as far as how it's played (hopefully the new ball helps this year). It's been interesting how the move downtown hurt the Old Market more than it helped it. The area around TD has failed to benefit for year round stuff for the most part. We still get a lot of "temporary" stores and such. Only a few have been able to make a go of it there year round...
Greg



This all changes when Shamrock is completed, not to mention the development that the Shamrock may in turn spur. Not sure how the stadium hurt the Old Market though.


The atmosphere in the stadium I was referring to was inside the stadium other than the CWS. Meaning Bluejay games (or any where you the stadium is 75% or more empty). Shamrock will be good for pre and post CWS games, not sure it helps for the Jays. Crowds are too small and it's a ways away.

The merchants in the Old Market have stated that since the series moved, they've seen a noticeable drop in business. After the games at Rosenblatt, fans would move to other areans-Old Market and Pauli's were a couple of them. Now they seem to stay more in the area around the stadium.

Greg



Ahh, gotcha.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Stargazer » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:53 am

I love Werner Park, so much better than watching the Royals at Rosenblatt. But it sure would have been nice if we had this stadium downtown. Sorry, but I would have been content to give up the CWS to have seen that happen. Can you imagine 70+ baseball games downtown through the year... the foot traffic accompanying it, restaurant patronage, etc. Not just one week of festivities, and an empty behemoth the rest of the summer. CWS is a great feather for Omaha's cap... but it does nothing for downtown the rest of the year.

But, in the absence of that... I'm glad for what Werner Park has done out here. I've got a couple of friends who have/are building houses around Prairie Queen... it really is evolving into a beautiful area.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Brad » Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:46 pm

Ground Breaking today on the new patio

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby skinzfan23 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:48 pm

Where is this going? Is it past the outfield seats?

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:02 pm

skinzfan23 wrote:Where is this going? Is it past the outfield seats?



Looking from the field it's to the left of the Downdraught Bar that is under the scoreboard.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:41 am

Flattering write up from Ballpark Digest:

http://ballparkdigest.com/2015/09/30/st ... rty-patio/

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:27 pm

UNO continues their partnership with the Chasers and will again be playing some games at Werner Park this year:

4/6 vs Nebraska
4/20 vs K State
4/26 vs Air Force


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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:55 am

Shatel article on the start of season five at Werner Park. Cool that they are going to have a Royals World Series flag. So many former Chasers on that team:

http://www.omaha.com/sports/chasers/sha ... 20eef.html

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby nebugeater » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:49 am

Nice crowed for the OMAHA / HUSKER game last night. Reported at about 3600 and I think that was accurate. I was there as a Husker fan but was impressed with the number of fans there supporting Omaha. If i had to guess it was probably 2/3 Husker 1/3 Omaha and that to me anyway is a good Omaha fan base at the game.


Greg S wrote:UNO continues their partnership with the Chasers and will again be playing some games at Werner Park this year:

4/6 vs Nebraska
4/20 vs K State
4/26 vs Air Force


Greg
For the record  NEBUGEATER does not equal BUGEATER    !!!!!!!

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:45 am

I wish I could have gone. Decent weather for the game. Glad to see UNO vs UNL is becoming an annual event at Werner Park.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Greg S » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:03 pm

Would not surprise me to see the state playoffs land at Werner for every year, not split with Haymarket Park:

http://www.neprepzone.com/baseball/patt ... 5fa9a.html

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby choke » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:22 pm

Per Hailey Konnath / World-Herald staff writer:

Subdivision surrounding Werner Park, more than $12.8 million in debt, files for bankruptcy

A bankrupt subdivision, however, is hardly the grand vision that city and county leaders had for the land surrounding the ballpark back in 2011. Werner Park would spur a neighboring entertainment district, they hoped. There would be a movie theater, bars, restaurants and shops. Fans would have a reason to come hang out before baseball games or stick around after.

Six years passed. The fans showed up. The development didn’t. Today, the ballpark sits amid empty fields.


You know where this would of worked? Downtown Omaha. I still think to this day that Omaha got screwed by the Storm Chasers when they chose not to play downtown. Both sides are worse off than they would be if they had worked together. How stupid!!!!!!

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/subdivision-surrounding-werner-park-more-than-million-in-debt-files/article_14567f4f-32bf-51e1-9bb2-9cf4987276ef.html

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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby Coyote » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:34 pm

I was just going to post this. I'm going to have to ask a friend again, but I was told the developers wanted way too much for their land... One reason they lost Alamo House back when.
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Re: DISCUSSION: Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

Postby OmahaJaysCU » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:25 pm

This failed because it defied one of the simple rules of retail, follow the rooftops. Densities in this area were, and still are virtually non existent when this started. Yes there have been plent of new housing but stretch the demographics out 2 or 5 miles and the populations drop. No rooftops=no commercial development. Period. You could give the lots away and the retail would have failed.

10 years from now this might be different, but not today. Also foolish to use an SID given those circumstances but someone was willing to finance it.


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