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Greg S
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Postby Greg S » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:36 am

Good article on the new arena/development downtown even in the face of bankruptcy:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2013 ... CFRONTPAGE


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Postby NovakOmaha » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:33 pm

There are lots of hoops to jump through but it will happen.  

Since we moved here in 2008 thousands of jobs have moved downtown & the owner of Quicken Loans has bought dozens of buildings.  The rest of Detroit proper is a wasteland but downtown & midtown are growing like crazy.  Joe Louis Arena is a dump & the owner is also the owner of Little Caesars Pizza & the Tigers.  He bought the Fox Theater (Similar to the Omaha Orpheum but bigger) & completely rehabbed it.  He wants the new arena to be near the Fox.  This is a crazy city.  The city council is the goofiest thing I ever saw.  

Anyway, the downtown developments are very impressive.

One other thing.  While the city of Detroit is down to less than 800,000 the metro is over 4 million.  The suburbs are viable & growing.

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Postby NovakOmaha » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:38 pm

This is a promo for the new Google Map App.  It's pretty cool & they picked Detroit.  

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=oVg7hx3srzo[/youtube]

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Postby Coyote » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:06 pm

[font=Georgia]Detroit files for bankruptcy[/font]

CNN wrote:Detroit filed for bankruptcy Thursday afternoon, becoming the nation's largest public sector bankruptcy. The move could slash pension benefits to city workers and retirees, and leave bond holders with only pennies on the dollar.

The bankruptcy was filed by Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr and approved by Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder. Snyder said the financial condition of the city left him no choice, and that Detroit could not meet its obligation to either its citizens or its creditors.
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S33
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Postby S33 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:29 pm

Nothing like continuing to throw good money after bad. Let it fall, already.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

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Garrett
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Postby Garrett » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:34 pm

So what exactly are some solutions? Split Detroit up?

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Postby Coyote » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:50 pm

[font=Georgia]Detroit's bust could ripple back to Berkshire[/font]

OWH wrote:Detroit has filed for bankruptcy to reduce its debts, and Berkshire Hathaway Inc. of Omaha insures about $700 million worth of Detroit's sewer and water bonds.
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Postby jessep28 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:59 pm

Axel wrote:So what exactly are some solutions? Split Detroit up?


If Detroit is allowed to go into bankruptcy, their debt and other obligations will probably be reduced or reorganized in some fashion.
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Postby guitarguy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:59 pm

From what I've read after 50 years of extreme corruption the biggest problems in Detroit lie in unfunded union pension liabilities. Union contracts that were negotiated by corrupt politicians trying to use the power of the unions to stay elected. So thru bankruptcy one can only assume that it will break these contracts that were never possible to honor and allow the city to restructure its debt so that it can begin to return towards a healthy fiscal state. Michigan became a right to work state ( Unions have no collective bargaining rights anymore ) within the last year so this should allow Detroit to continue towards financial health without the possibility of Unions getting in the way. It really is a shame that Detroit is in the condition you see it today because it's one of the few cities in the country that has a TON of Art Deco styling and its all disintegrating from being abandoned.
Last edited by guitarguy on Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jessep28
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Postby jessep28 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:10 pm

There's question of whether the art can be sold because of underpinning agreements. Although the pressing matter right now is that a Michigan state court judge has ruled that the state constitution prohibits a bankruptcy filing because public pension benefits could be cut in bankruptcy proceedings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/20/us/br ... ref=design
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Postby guitarguy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:22 pm

Believe me there are going to be fireworks throughout this process from the people who are trying any last ditch effort to avoid letting this go through. Amazing how bad Detroit needs this to happen and the people who have robbed the city blind still think they are entitled to their lavish pensions.

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Postby RNcyanide » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:56 am

guitarguy wrote:Believe me there are going to be fireworks throughout this process from the people who are trying any last ditch effort to avoid letting this go through. Amazing how bad Detroit needs this to happen and the people who have robbed the city blind still think they are entitled to their lavish pensions.


I read somewhere that one-third of their debt or budget (can't remember which) is for pensions and such. I also read that they are considering selling their airport (I'm probably oversimplifying that a bit), a large park, and the mayor of the Canadian city opposite Detroit is offering to buy their end of a tunnel.
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Postby Linkin5 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:11 pm

What a piece of |expletive| city.

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Postby NovakOmaha » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:14 pm

Linkin5 wrote:What a piece of |expletive| city.


So I guess you aren't coming for a visit?

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Postby Coyote » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:20 pm

If Detroit can pull it off, they may be the greenest city in the country, but they have hard decisions to make. I am just glad that the education system will not be involved in this bankruptcy process, I I heard the mayor correctly the other day.
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Postby RNcyanide » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:22 pm

It appears that a judge denied Detroit's bankruptcy.
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Postby Coyote » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:38 pm

RNcyanide wrote:It appears that a judge denied Detroit's bankruptcy.


Don't see that on the wires yet...
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Postby RNcyanide » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:46 pm

Coyote wrote:
RNcyanide wrote:It appears that a judge denied Detroit's bankruptcy.


Don't see that on the wires yet...


http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/19/news/ec ... ?hpt=hp_t3

Well, more accurately, it was ordered to be overturned. Not de facto overturned.
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.

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Postby Coyote » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:50 pm

... and only over a portion of the bankruptcy document being unconstitutional...
the state constitution prohibits cutting pension and retirement benefits, as has been proposed in the bankruptcy case.
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Postby NovakOmaha » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:56 pm

This thing has a ton of hoops to jump through.  Long movie, folks.  Go get some popcorn & a coke.  Then, enjoy the show!

I could say that there will be an announcement in 60-90 days but nope.  Aint gonna do it.

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Postby guitarguy » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:20 pm

Novak, what's the word around Detroit about the city filing for bankruptcy?

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Postby NovakOmaha » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:04 pm

guitarguy wrote:Novak, what's the word around Detroit about the city filing for bankruptcy?


Short answer: It's about time.

Longer answer.  The folks on pensions are scared.  Channel 4 interviewed the widow of a police officer killed in the line.  She & the kids live on $2,ooo a month.  

It's interesting.  50 years, $20billion in debt, 300 million deficit, yet tons of redevelopment & jobs moving downtown & midtown.  The city went from 1.8 million people to less than 800,000...in the city limits.  Tax base really shrunk.  Funny thing is that the metro is in pretty good shape & home prices are rising & inventory is moving.  Car industry is back & growing.  

To answer your question, the word around the city is "Ok.  It's happening.  Now get it over with.  It's scary & lots of people are going the be hurt but let's move forward."

It will take some time & there are lots of clowns involved.  There are some good stories in the Detroit Free Press and the Detroit News.  Check out freep.com & detnews.com

I've got to say, politics in Michigan & Detroit make Nebraska & Omaha look positively catatonic.

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Postby S33 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:21 am

NovakOmaha wrote:Longer answer.  The folks on pensions are scared.  Channel 4 interviewed the widow of a police officer killed in the line.  She & the kids live on $2,ooo a month.  

So, she and her kids live on her late husband's pension, alone, and she's still capable of increasing her income by... wait for it... getting a (what's that world I'm looking for?...) JOB??!!

I'm going off a lot of assumptions, but I bet I'm right.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

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Postby S33 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:31 am

You see, the problem with Detroit doesn't start and end with the economy/rust belt decline, and pensions. Because of the decades and decades of corruption, segregation, and disappearing jobs, it has left the inner-city of Detroit morally, socially, educationally, AND fiscally bankrupt.

People have fled that city in droves for years now, and the only people who are left, are left because they have nowhere to go or no means to relocate.

You start putting all those factors together, Detroit proper is not likely to do much else but continue to decay. I know they have and are currently trying to revitalize parts of the city and especially downtown, but in the end, its the people who make the difference, but most in Detroit just want to stand curb-side with their hands out. The "revitalizations" almost never are including the overwhelmingly poor and under-educated Detroit residents.

I'm sure I'll get hammered for saying that, but it's the dang truth.

If they really wanted to revitalize Detroit, they would find away to manufacture their cars in the vast and open voids that have been cleared in the city's center, train and hire locals, and keep GM and Ford's revenues closer to home.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

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Postby NovakOmaha » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:43 pm

S33 wrote:You see, the problem with Detroit doesn't start and end with the economy/rust belt decline, and pensions. Because of the decades and decades of corruption, segregation, and disappearing jobs, it has left the inner-city of Detroit morally, socially, educationally, AND fiscally bankrupt.

People have fled that city in droves for years now, and the only people who are left, are left because they have nowhere to go or no means to relocate.

You start putting all those factors together, Detroit proper is not likely to do much else but continue to decay. I know they have and are currently trying to revitalize parts of the city and especially downtown, but in the end, its the people who make the difference, but most in Detroit just want to stand curb-side with their hands out. The "revitalizations" almost never are including the overwhelmingly poor and under-educated Detroit residents.

I'm sure I'll get hammered for saying that, but it's the dang truth.

If they really wanted to revitalize Detroit, they would find away to manufacture their cars in the vast and open voids that have been cleared in the city's center, train and hire locals, and keep GM and Ford's revenues closer to home.


Short answer:  Opinions vary.

A bit longer answer:  Your analysis a amazingly myopic.  So's your last sentence.  

My final answer:  Where's Mort Sullivan when Detroit needs him?

One more thing:  60-90 days, with a light rail & water feature

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Postby S33 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:03 pm

Anyone with a pocket full of cash and half a brain knows Detroit is a terrible investment.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

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Postby guitarguy » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:49 pm

Well.. things are moving along nicely...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/us/cr ... sions.html

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Postby NovakOmaha » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:38 pm


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Postby guitarguy » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:02 pm

I have no doubt in my mind that if they can solve the financial drag thats on Detroit that there will be a development boom that will make any city in the country jealous. For a city the size of Detroit I wonder when the last time they had significant investment in their Downtown area.

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Postby RNcyanide » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:09 pm

guitarguy wrote:I have no doubt in my mind that if they can solve the financial drag thats on Detroit that there will be a development boom that will make any city in the country jealous. For a city the size of Detroit I wonder when the last time they had significant investment in their Downtown area.


Whatever year it was when they bailed out GM.
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Postby guitarguy » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:21 pm

Well since I was talking about natural development and not the stupid government forking over our dollars to avoid looking horrible for the US auto industry going bust we'll go with a really really long time haha

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Postby NovakOmaha » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:15 pm

It's going on right now as far as redevelopment but if you mean new construction downtown I'd say Ford Field (football), Comerica Park (baseball), three casinos.

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Postby S33 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:03 pm



I'm still waiting to hear how any of these plans will affect or include the residents of inner Detroit. I would actually prefer to be proven wrong.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

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NovakOmaha
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Postby NovakOmaha » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:16 am



Whole Foods also opened this year in the city.  Meijer is a Michigan-based supercenter along the lines of walmart & supertarget.  Huge stores, good merchandice, big food sections & good prices.

Just an FYI.  The Free Press leans left & the Detroit News leans right.  Here are a couple of interesting things about the Freep & the News.  They print together, only offer home delivery on Thursday, Friday & Sunday.  You can buy print editions at gas stations & 7-11s or you can pay extra for a private service to deliver to your home on the off days.  It took some getting used to when they quit delivering four days a week.  

Anyway, it is amazing that there is all this development in downtown & midtown while the city government is a clown show & the city goes bankrupt.

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Postby Coyote » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:52 pm

Detroit compared to Omaha:

[font=Georgia]Detroit is America[/font]


Just a few big cities—notably Omaha, Indianapolis, Nashville, Louisville, and Miami, plus Portland, Oregon—have effective metropolitan-wide governance. If you live in a suburb of the old central city of Indianapolis, or eight miles from downtown Omaha, you still live in the city: You pay for city services and you get them.

But in every other metro area, cities and suburbs exist next to one another, and only collaborate in limited ways. They hire and pay their own employees, issue their own bonds, collect their own taxes, decide their own budgets with their own elected officials, appoint their own police and fire chiefs and planners, as if there were a gap of a hundred miles between Chicago and Evanston, or an ocean rather than a hash-mark between Buffalo and Cheektowaga, or a mountain range rather than a traffic light separating Cleveland and East Cleveland, or no shared border between Detroit and any of its adjacent suburbs.

Politicians of both political parties detest regional government, which is why it is so rare. Black politicians who have waited “their turn” in the racial-ethnic machine hierarchies pledge that they can do better once they’re in charge, and typically acquire and wield power precisely the same way as their predecessor cohorts of Irish, Italians, or Slavic machine pols. But when regions that function as an economic totality are governed such that individual areas within them act separately, great stupidity, inefficiency, cost-shifting, rent-seeking, corruption, and self-destruction ensue.
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Postby Omaha_Gabe » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:02 pm

Detroit's financial crisis hasn't derailed the city's plans to spend more than $400 million in Michigan taxpayer funds on a new hockey arena for the Red Wings.



Advocates of the arena say it's the kind of economic development needed to attract both people and private investment dollars into downtown Detroit. It's an argument that has convinced Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder and Kevyn Orr, the emergency manager he appointed to oversee the city's finances, to stick with the plan. Orr said Detroit's bankruptcy filing won't halt the arena plans.



http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/26/news/ec ... ?hpt=hp_t2

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Postby Coyote » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:16 pm

Just got the latest issue of Time Magazine in the mail today - "Is Your City Next: Lessons from Detroit's fight to survive:" There is a map on page 27  that shows "Municipalities that have filed for bankruptcy since 2010" in Nebraska (pointing towards Omaha) they have 10 markers.

What gives?
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Postby Coyote » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:38 pm

[font=Georgia]Nine cities that could soon follow Detroit into bankruptcy[/font]

Washington Examiner wrote:Chicago
Portland, Ore.

Omaha, Neb.

Maybe city officials can call Warren Buffett for some advice on handling large sums of money. Buffett's hometown has managed to ring up more than $1.4 billion in pension liabilities and it has only enough cash saved to pay about 43 percent of those costs, according to Pew.
But Omaha is not on Moody's list, so a downgrade in the immediate future seems unlikely.

Minneapolis
Cincinnati
Providence, R.I.
Trenton, N.J.
Santa Fe, N.M.
Charleston, W.Va.
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