Amazon HQ2

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TitosBuritoBarn
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

Meh, it's still a long shot...

I'm mildly annoyed that the author believes New Orleans is in the midwest.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by Garrett »

TitosBuritoBarn wrote:Meh, it's still a long shot...

I'm mildly annoyed that the author believes New Orleans is in the midwest.
I stopped reading at “New Orleans=Midwest”
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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Interesting article about Amazon's effect on Seattle

One walk through Seattle's 'Amazonia' neighborhood made me very uneasy for whatever city gets HQ2

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-h ... equences-6
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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Uffda wrote:Interesting article about Amazon's effect on Seattle

One walk through Seattle's 'Amazonia' neighborhood made me very uneasy for whatever city gets HQ2

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-h ... equences-6
As much as I believe Business Insider is Buzzfeed for news, he makes a couple good points. First, it's never a good idea to let one company dominate the local economy and be responsible for the majority of jobs. Because when that company leaves or declines, and it almost certainly will, the city/region of the city goes with it.

Second is the issue with Amazon attempting to control everything. If true what he reports about Amazon requiring businesses to stay open at night, there will be a lot of turnover unless they balance out the daytime and nighttime activity. A substantially greater number of residents as well as cultural institutions are needed to achieve a proper daytime/nighttime balance. That's usually easy (but slow) to fix.

Many of the other issues are just products of growth and can become major positives (which he does allude to) when sorted out better. If there weren't problems to fix, I wouldn't have a job.

--

What I'm hoping they do is locate to a city that has fallen on hard times like St. Louis, Detroit that has the infrastructure for growth already in place and could handle the influx of a large new employer. In St. Louis, we have an entire airport terminal we don't use, a light-rail system that is rarely congested, an urban housing stock that is ripe for investment as much of it as abandoned or underutilized, and a downtown with enough building stock and vacant lots to absorb at least what Amazon is proposing.
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Uffda
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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TitosBuritoBarn wrote:
Uffda wrote:Interesting article about Amazon's effect on Seattle

One walk through Seattle's 'Amazonia' neighborhood made me very uneasy for whatever city gets HQ2

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-h ... equences-6
As much as I believe Business Insider is Buzzfeed for news, he makes a couple good points. First, it's never a good idea to let one company dominate the local economy and be responsible for the majority of jobs. Because when that company leaves or declines, and it almost certainly will, the city/region of the city goes with it.

Second is the issue with Amazon attempting to control everything. If true what he reports about Amazon requiring businesses to stay open at night, there will be a lot of turnover unless they balance out the daytime and nighttime activity. A substantially greater number of residents as well as cultural institutions are needed to achieve a proper daytime/nighttime balance. That's usually easy (but slow) to fix.

Many of the other issues are just products of growth and can become major positives (which he does allude to) when sorted out better. If there weren't problems to fix, I wouldn't have a job.

--

What I'm hoping they do is locate to a city that has fallen on hard times like St. Louis, Detroit that has the infrastructure for growth already in place and could handle the influx of a large new employer. In St. Louis, we have an entire airport terminal we don't use, a light-rail system that is rarely congested, an urban housing stock that is ripe for investment as much of it as abandoned or underutilized, and a downtown with enough building stock and vacant lots to absorb at least what Amazon is proposing.
I noticed within his article he had links to other articles. The author was kind of putting it all in one spot.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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Uffda wrote:
TitosBuritoBarn wrote:
Uffda wrote:Interesting article about Amazon's effect on Seattle

One walk through Seattle's 'Amazonia' neighborhood made me very uneasy for whatever city gets HQ2

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-h ... equences-6
As much as I believe Business Insider is Buzzfeed for news, he makes a couple good points. First, it's never a good idea to let one company dominate the local economy and be responsible for the majority of jobs. Because when that company leaves or declines, and it almost certainly will, the city/region of the city goes with it.

Second is the issue with Amazon attempting to control everything. If true what he reports about Amazon requiring businesses to stay open at night, there will be a lot of turnover unless they balance out the daytime and nighttime activity. A substantially greater number of residents as well as cultural institutions are needed to achieve a proper daytime/nighttime balance. That's usually easy (but slow) to fix.

Many of the other issues are just products of growth and can become major positives (which he does allude to) when sorted out better. If there weren't problems to fix, I wouldn't have a job.

--

What I'm hoping they do is locate to a city that has fallen on hard times like St. Louis, Detroit that has the infrastructure for growth already in place and could handle the influx of a large new employer. In St. Louis, we have an entire airport terminal we don't use, a light-rail system that is rarely congested, an urban housing stock that is ripe for investment as much of it as abandoned or underutilized, and a downtown with enough building stock and vacant lots to absorb at least what Amazon is proposing.
I noticed within his article he had links to other articles. The author was kind of putting it all in one spot.
STL would be a good space for that much development, but I think they will head to the cool kids club towns like Austin.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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Boston.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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bigredmed1 wrote:STL would be a good space for that much development, but I think they will head to the cool kids club towns like Austin.
STL is the antithesis of cool, to be sure.

Albuquerque is the new Austin. Mark my words. :D
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by bigredmed1 »

damonhynes wrote:
bigredmed1 wrote:STL would be a good space for that much development, but I think they will head to the cool kids club towns like Austin.
STL is the antithesis of cool, to be sure.

Albuquerque is the new Austin. Mark my words. :D
Used to live there in the 80s. It's always been better than Austin.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by jessep28 »

The list is down to twenty:

https://www.amazon.com/b?node=17044620011
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by Coyote »

The 20 potential cities include Atlanta, Austin, Boston, Chicago, Columbus, Ohio, Dallas, Denver, Indianapolis, Los Angeles, Miami, Montgomery County in Maryland, Nashville, Newark, New York City, Northern Virginia, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh, Toronto and Washington D.C.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by nebugeater »

Coyote wrote:The 20 potential cities include Atlanta, Austin, Boston, Chicago, Columbus, Ohio, Dallas, Denver, Indianapolis, Los Angeles, Miami, Montgomery County in Maryland, Nashville, Newark, New York City, Northern Virginia, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh, Toronto and Washington D.C.

Glad they specified Columbus OHIO or I would have thought Columbus Nebr made it !
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by Garrett »

Well, looks like only 1 Rustbelt city on the list, otherwise not too surprising. I would have thought Detroit and STL would’ve had a chance.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

Can't say I'm too surprised about this list either. Hoped to see STL, Detroit, or Cleveland on here too.

Personally, my preferred city for it to go to is Pittsburgh. Out of all the cities on the list, it's the one that seems to have fallen the hardest. Chicago would be second, although Chicago hasn't had much trouble with attracting new business to the city lately. I also think Atlanta, Indianapolis, Philadelphia, and possibly Newark and Nashville could use what Amazon would likely bring - that being urban oriented, commercial, high paying jobs. The other cities are doing fine on their own (Raleigh, Austin, Columbus, Dallas, Denver, New York, Boston, Toronto), have cost of living issues that would be made worse (Los Angeles, Boston, New York, DC, Toronto) or would just squander the opportunity (Dallas, Raleigh, Miami).
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by Greg S »

My money is still on Denver.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by BRoss »

I guess we officially got rejected.

Public transportation was one area we lacked along with population and not having a major international airport.

I'm not surprised we got rejected but I am surprised they gave us feedback.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by iamjacobm »

In related interesting news. Amazon is threatening to stop all expansions in Seattle over a new tax to fund affordable housing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/tech ... t-tax.html
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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So reports now that they will split the HQ2 into two cities. NYC, DC and Dallas the final three.

I'll guess DC and Dallas.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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I'm very curious what Amazon's impact would be on Dallas. It's very different from Seattle.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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Appears it was NY and DC that have won. Interesting, I thought they would have gone for more geographic diversity.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by iamjacobm »

Taco wrote: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:00 pm Appears it was NY and DC that have won. Interesting, I thought they would have gone for more geographic diversity.
Yeah, thats why I was guessing Dallas. I figured DC would be in, there is a NYU professor that I like that made a great point about Amazon and DC. They only thing keeping Amazon from a trillion dollar market cap and two trillion is regulation. Having influence in the capitol is clearly important for Bezos.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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iamjacobm wrote: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:14 amThey only thing keeping Amazon from a trillion dollar market cap and two trillion is regulation.
Well, yea, that... and profits that would in any way remotely justify that sort of evaluation, of course.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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edit
Last edited by ricko on Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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ricko wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:02 am Amazon will officially announce, next Tuesday, that HQ2 will be split between Long Island City, NY and Crystal City (Arlington County), Virginia. At least it will be a good 25 miles from me, and not next to Dulles Airport, but adjacent to National Airport. Crystal City is a massive aging office complex near the Pentagon that until recently housed offices for the Navy. At least it has a Metro stop. "Crystal City" is also a metaphor used by the locals to describe a soulless concrete wasteland. Maybe Amazon can liven the place up. I used to work in an office building on the north end of the neighborhood. The only cool thing, though, is that all of the buildings are connected by an underground shopping mall with no chain stores----all of the stores and restaurants are local. It's kinda' like a mini version of the Montreal Underground.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by iamjacobm »

5000 jobs to Nashville too. Amazon anchoring this mixed use development.

Image

Nashville is ripping hot, but they have some major growing pains in the near future.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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ricko wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:32 am
Amazon will officially announce, next Tuesday, that HQ2 will be split between Long Island City, NY and Crystal City (Arlington County), Virginia. At least it will be a good 25 miles from me, and not next to Dulles Airport, but adjacent to National Airport. Crystal City is a massive aging office complex near the Pentagon that until recently housed offices for the Navy. At least it has a Metro stop. "Crystal City" is also a metaphor used by the locals to describe a soulless concrete wasteland. Maybe Amazon can liven the place up. I used to work in an office building on the north end of the neighborhood. The only cool thing, though, is that all of the buildings are connected by an underground shopping mall with no chain stores----all of the stores and restaurants are local. It's kinda' like a mini version of the Montreal Underground.
Aren't they already trying to rebrand the area as "National Landing"?
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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iamjacobm wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:03 am 5000 jobs to Nashville too. Amazon anchoring this mixed use development.

Image

Nashville is ripping hot, but they have some major growing pains in the near future.
What kind of growing pains?
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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Louie wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:42 pm
iamjacobm wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:03 am 5000 jobs to Nashville too. Amazon anchoring this mixed use development.

Image

Nashville is ripping hot, but they have some major growing pains in the near future.
What kind of growing pains?
Of the 30 top tech markets in 2017 CBRE Tech 30, Nashville was #14 in job growth rate, #2 in rent growth rate, and #3 in net absorption rate. It was noted that rents rising rapidly and a low availability of office space were challenges.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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Garrett wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:56 pm
ricko wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:32 am
Amazon will officially announce, next Tuesday, that HQ2 will be split between Long Island City, NY and Crystal City (Arlington County), Virginia. At least it will be a good 25 miles from me, and not next to Dulles Airport, but adjacent to National Airport. Crystal City is a massive aging office complex near the Pentagon that until recently housed offices for the Navy. At least it has a Metro stop. "Crystal City" is also a metaphor used by the locals to describe a soulless concrete wasteland. Maybe Amazon can liven the place up. I used to work in an office building on the north end of the neighborhood. The only cool thing, though, is that all of the buildings are connected by an underground shopping mall with no chain stores----all of the stores and restaurants are local. It's kinda' like a mini version of the Montreal Underground.
Aren't they already trying to rebrand the area as "National Landing"?
God, I hope not. Sounds like a name an outsider would use. The word "national" has been used to death around here; it would just trigger major eye-rolls.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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There's actually been a lot of grassroots pushback in the LIC area. Much of it is centered around the issues of the further-declining affordable housing market in the area and the tremendous concessions made to a firm that does not need said concessions.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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Omababe wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:01 am There's actually been a lot of grassroots pushback in the LIC area. Much of it is centered around the issues of the further-declining affordable housing market in the area and the tremendous concessions made to a firm that does not need said concessions.
And the fact that the 7 Train is at full capacity already, and most of the MTA isn't doing too hot.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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Crony capitalism at it's finest, the tax breaks and concessions these cities are making is ridiculous. I am now fully for Amazon crashing and burning.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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Garrett wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:58 amAnd the fact that the 7 Train is at full capacity already, and most of the MTA isn't doing too hot.
I would think that the IND trains in the area (8th. Ave, whatever letter they run out there now. E?) and the G would be most impacted. I also heard some news chatter that there's a possibility of adding a closer LIRR station. This is, of course, not considering the helipad. :)
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by Garrett »

Omababe wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:58 am
Garrett wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:58 amAnd the fact that the 7 Train is at full capacity already, and most of the MTA isn't doing too hot.
I would think that the IND trains in the area (8th. Ave, whatever letter they run out there now. E?) and the G would be most impacted. I also heard some news chatter that there's a possibility of adding a closer LIRR station. This is, of course, not considering the helipad. :)
Perhaps, but the E is already one of the most used too and the 7 connects to Grand Central and the PABT.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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Aside from making miserable traffic even more so, the 25K new jobs at $100K-150K a pop would be a minor blip on the local economy. A $150K household would get you a $600K house----think 1800 SF home in a neighborhood like Westgate. Virginia is shelling out somewhere between $500 and $750 million for the honor of landing Amazon, one of the wealthiest companies on the planet. That's like T.I.F. on steroids. Many years ago I had an economics professor who described such an arrangement to be a key element of Fascism. These corporate shakedowns are getting really tiresome.
Last edited by ricko on Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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ricko wrote: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:55 am Aside from making miserable traffic even more so, the 25K new jobs at $100K-150K a pop would be a minor blip on the local economy. A $150K household would get you a $600K house----think 1800 SF home in a neighborhood like Westgate. Virginia is shelling out somewhere between $500 and $750 million for the honor of landing Amazon, one of the wealthiest companies on the planet. That's like T.I.F. on steroids. Many years ago I had an economics professor who described such an arrangement to be a key element of Facism. These corporate shakedowns are getting really tiresome.
Agreed, this was not a company we would want to land for the long term good of the local economy.
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Louie wrote: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:38 pm
ricko wrote: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:55 am Aside from making miserable traffic even more so, the 25K new jobs at $100K-150K a pop would be a minor blip on the local economy. A $150K household would get you a $600K house----think 1800 SF home in a neighborhood like Westgate. Virginia is shelling out somewhere between $500 and $750 million for the honor of landing Amazon, one of the wealthiest companies on the planet. That's like T.I.F. on steroids. Many years ago I had an economics professor who described such an arrangement to be a key element of Facism. These corporate shakedowns are getting really tiresome.
Agreed, this was not a company we would want to land for the long term good of the local economy.
I agree with you both.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by PotatoeEatsFish »

This whole "looking for a city" was such a publicity stunt. They knew they were going to choose DC and New York the whole time.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

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ricko wrote: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:55 am Aside from making miserable traffic even more so, the 25K new jobs at $100K-150K a pop would be a minor blip on the local economy. A $150K household would get you a $600K house----think 1800 SF home in a neighborhood like Westgate. Virginia is shelling out somewhere between $500 and $750 million for the honor of landing Amazon, one of the wealthiest companies on the planet. That's like T.I.F. on steroids. Many years ago I had an economics professor who described such an arrangement to be a key element of Facism. These corporate shakedowns are getting really tiresome.
Let's do some math.

25,000 jobs at $125,000 average is $3,125,000,000 annual payroll with the better part of that recycling into the local economy. The state income tax on $125,000 is about $6,733. That would put $168,325,000 into state coffers. Assuming no other use of the money but paying back the $750,000,000 it would take less than five years. In my book that's a really fast return on investment, not to mention the recycling of over THREE BILLION DOLLARS into the local economy.

Now, given that some of you call BS on the above paragraph, your professor seriously needs to spend time outside the classroom. To call economic incentives a key element of facism, IN MY OPINION, is a lie. What it is is capitalism. A locality wants to create more jobs and incentives can help make that possible. It is no different than paving streets or building a park to make an area more desirable. Facism? FACISM? I can feel my blood pressure going up. I weep for higher education.

I get that those areas that didn't get selected are now justifying why they are better off for not getting the Amazon headquarters but seriously, most of the comments around the country are some form of sour grapes.
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Re: Amazon HQ2

Post by ricko »

NovakOmaha wrote: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:31 pm
ricko wrote: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:55 am Aside from making miserable traffic even more so, the 25K new jobs at $100K-150K a pop would be a minor blip on the local economy. A $150K household would get you a $600K house----think 1800 SF home in a neighborhood like Westgate. Virginia is shelling out somewhere between $500 and $750 million for the honor of landing Amazon, one of the wealthiest companies on the planet. That's like T.I.F. on steroids. Many years ago I had an economics professor who described such an arrangement to be a key element of Facism. These corporate shakedowns are getting really tiresome.
Let's do some math.

25,000 jobs at $125,000 average is $3,125,000,000 annual payroll with the better part of that recycling into the local economy. The state income tax on $125,000 is about $6,733. That would put $168,325,000 into state coffers. Assuming no other use of the money but paying back the $750,000,000 it would take less than five years. In my book that's a really fast return on investment, not to mention the recycling of over THREE BILLION DOLLARS into the local economy.

Now, given that some of you call BS on the above paragraph, your professor seriously needs to spend time outside the classroom. To call economic incentives a key element of facism, IN MY OPINION, is a lie. What it is is capitalism. A locality wants to create more jobs and incentives can help make that possible. It is no different than paving streets or building a park to make an area more desirable. Facism? FACISM? I can feel my blood pressure going up. I weep for higher education.

I get that those areas that didn't get selected are now justifying why they are better off for not getting the Amazon headquarters but seriously, most of the comments around the country are some form of sour grapes.

I appreciate your efforts to illustrate the 'multiplier effect', and I'm well aware of how it works. My beef revolves around the issue of public tax dollars, and how wealthy corporations or sports teams hold cities and states hostage (for MY tax dollars, BTW), or they'll take their petulant ball and go elsewhere. Amazon would have the same economic impact on any community, wherever it lands, without tax dollars, and they can well afford to locate in any community they choose. I don't know how this country got into this ridiculous conundrum of shelling out public money to private corporations. Tax dollars used/spent to build roads and parks, etc. is an appropriate use of public money since it benefits the common good, not a private company. You may wince at my description of this arrangement as Fascist, but crony capitalism is one of its features. BTW, it was a Macroeconomics class over 40 years ago, and I do recall that my professor was a free market Republican/Libertairian who was criticizing the concept, using Germany and Italy in the 1930's as examples, from the Right; he didn't even like public money being used for transportation. My other beef revolves around the secrecy surrounding the deal----there was no public input, and it was announced as a done deal last week (again, Fascism). Just to let you know where I'm coming from, I've worked in sales (the heart of Capitalism) most of my adult life, and my income largely depends on how well I perform.

As long as I'm here, I might as well give you my take on Bezos' political strategy. I think that, in addition to wrangling his public windfall, thanks to Virginia taxpayers like me, he wants to increase his political influence here in order to avert an inevitable anti-trust move on the part of Capitol Hill.
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