Peer cities battle royal...

Kansas City, Denver, Minneapolis, and Coast to Coast

Moderators: Coyote, nebugeater, Brad, Omaha Cowboy, BRoss

Locked
trailer
New to the Neighborhood
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:58 pm
Location: Lawrence, Kansas

Peer cities battle royal...

Post by trailer »

This thread is a continuation of what was originally started on KCS.com.

Here's what I said:
trailerkid wrote: Here's my list of which city I'd choose to live in if offered the choice...anyone want to argue with this?

Tulsa or Omaha Tulsa
Des Moines or Omaha Des Moines
Albuquerque or Omaha Albuquerque
Tucson or Omaha Tucson
Colorado Springs or Omaha Colorado Springs
Boise or Omaha Omaha
Here was the reply...notice he doesn't say anything about disagreeing with my picks.
eomaha.com wrote:Those last 4 are virtually a mirror image of one another, but thanks for your opinion. Sure you don't want to pick Wichita over us as well.
Here's what I said:
trailerkid wrote:If you have to use Wichita to make yourself feel good, that's your thing.

They are your peer cities...explain what is more attractive about Omaha if you disagree with any of my picks. I'm just really curious.
Let the fun begin:
eomaha.com wrote:Okay for benefit of other folks (yes, I said earlier trailer... I think you have something personal against Omaha... past posts I have seen you make here and at the desmoines forum make this evident... I open myself up to more of your abuse nonetheless), in between 'compiles' here at work... I threw together a list of things which I think of as pluses for Omaha. Of course I realize there are going to be cities in this population range which out perform Omaha in a given category... but I believe (in my biased opinion ) that taken as a whole... Omaha out performs any of these cities (although admittedly, I don't know much about Tulsa).


Transportation
4 million passenger airport/very competitive fairs/many direct flights. Centrally located at intersection of I-29 and I-80... convenient travel anywhere. Metro circumnavigating interstate... something Tucson, Colorado Springs, Boise, and ABQ could REALLY use! Blame their situation on explosive growth I guess (another negative in my opinion... let's hear it for steady, reasonable midwestern growth )

Diverse corporate might
5 Fortune 500 HQ's, more than any metro under 1 million (even more than KC), Ameritrade, First National Bank, over 30 insurance companies, nations largest railroad, second largest trucking company, one of the largest food conglomerates, etc, etc... there are lots of jobs in many fields (one of nation's lowest unemployment rates)

Amenities
'Big city' retail/restaurant amenities... from Whole Foods to Dave & Busters, J. Crew to California Pizza Kitchen, etc, etc... not to speak of local legends like NFM, Borsheim's Jewelry, excellent local dining (yeah, that's getting into really subjective territory). Even for the rednecks... only metro under 1 million with both a Cabela's and Bass Pro Shops?

Culture
New $90 million performing arts center, highly regarded 'Indie' scene, nation's largest 'community playhouse', one of nation's largest dedicated children's theatres, Bemis Center... nation's largest urban resident artist colony

Entertainment/fun
Top 20 concert destination in the -world-, riverfront playground, over 10,000 acres of city parks, over 80 miles of city trails, half a dozen dam sites surrounding the city, numerous sporting events/travelling shows/already alluded to 'culture'.

Urban scene
Old Market district is unlike anything in these other cities, from Dundee to South Omaha, Omaha has an interesting urban atmosphere (these new western cities? anything?) Over 1,000 condos planned or under construction downtown!

Attractions
World Class zoo, Joslyn Museum, Strategic Air and Space Museum, Lauritzen Botanical Gardens, Durham Western Heritage Museum, strong collegiate/minor league sports atmosphere, and
much more

Schools
Public schools rank among the best in the nation with standardized (ACT) scores averaging consistently in the top 5... and we have the property taxes to 'prove it' . Creighton, consistently ranked at the top of midwestern schools

History
From the first transcontinental railroad (Union Pacific still headquartered here!), to Mormon Trail, Boystown, and more... Omaha has an interesting history.

Notoriety
Lots of famous and interesting people from Omaha

Some really exciting developments
From the riverfront pedestrian bridge and highrise condos... to North Downtown, Mutual of Omaha's campus, and Aksarben Village, and more. There's always something going on.

Healthcare
Two teaching hospitals (more than any other metro under 1 million),
UNMC a world wide leader in research

Lastly..
Most billionaires
And of course close proximity to KC




Quote
Quote from: DTO on Today at 04:48:41 PM
I would liken Omaha to other cities like Louisville or Oklahoma City.


naturally you'd want to think of metros that are 50% larger as Omaha's peers.

Actually chrizow... as funny as that seems, that's what I'm talking about as well. I firmly believe Omaha is outperforming it's 'piers' enough... that it has begun to stand among larger cities such as Louisville, Memphis, OKC, etc. I think the same can be said of KC.
Last edited by trailer on Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
trailer
New to the Neighborhood
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:58 pm
Location: Lawrence, Kansas

Post by trailer »

Round 1 (ding, ding, ding)
eomaha.com wrote: Transportation
4 million passenger airport/very competitive fairs/many direct flights. Centrally located at intersection of I-29 and I-80... convenient travel anywhere.
I don't know how to measure a convenient location for an airport being that everyone is traveling from various locations, but here are the passenger counts in '05:
1. Albuquerque...6.8 million
2. Omaha...4.2 million
3. Tucson...4.1 million
4. Boise…3.1
5. Tulsa…3 million
6. Colorado Springs…+/- 2 million (couldn’t find official count)
7. Des Moines…1.9 million
eomaha.com wrote: Metro circumnavigating interstate... something Tucson, Colorado Springs, Boise, and ABQ could REALLY use! Blame their situation on explosive growth I guess (another negative in my opinion... let's hear it for steady, reasonable midwestern growth ;) )
Hmm...the only real difference between the interstate system in Omaha and those of Boise, ABQ, Tucson, and Colorado Springs is that Omaha has the 680. I don't care much for freeways, but I can't see how Omaha's freeway system is that advanced if they needed to build an elevated expressway over a suburban street-- haven't heard of such things in Tucson, Boise, CS, or ABQ. Honestly, I don't see much difference at all in the freeway systems of any of these cities unless I start to look very closely...

Omaha:
Image

Albuquerque
Image
TucsonImage

Boise
Image

Colorado SpringsImage
eomaha.com wrote: Diverse corporate might
5 Fortune 500 HQ's, more than any metro under 1 million (even more than KC), Ameritrade, First National Bank, over 30 insurance companies, nations largest railroad, second largest trucking company, one of the largest food conglomerates, etc, etc... there are lots of jobs in many fields (one of nation's lowest unemployment rates)
A breakdown of each city’s economy:
Omaha…agricultural base in addition to large HQs for banking(First National) transportation (UP, Kiewit) and telecommunications (West)

Colorado Springs…defense contracting base with a significant presence by Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and Northrop Grumman. Also a burgeoning high-tech industry with Verizon, HP, Intel, and Amtel all operating engineering operations in CS. CS is also a major center for military operations including NORAD, Camp Carson, US Air Force Academy among others.

Boise…HQs for ag/grocers (Albertsons, WinCo Foods, Simplot) construction (Washington Group International) as well as a significant presence by high-tech employers such as Microsoft, HP, and Sybase.

Tucson…U of Arizona remains the city’s largest employer and economic base. Davis-Monthan Air Force Base and the US Army Intelligence Center have also helped to create 1,2000 high-tech businesses employing over 50,000 people in the Tucson area. Tucson also is a player in the film production industry with quite a few productions having filmed in Tucson.

Albuquerque…mix of large public institutions (U of New Mexico, Sandia National Labs, Kirtland Air Force Base) with high manufactures (Intel, Honeywell Defense, GE Aircraft Engines)

Des Moines…mix of insurance firms (Principal Life, Nationwide, Wellmark) media (Meredith Corp.) banking (Wells Fargo Home Mortgage) and grocers/agriculture (HyVee, Pioneer)
eomaha.com wrote: Amenities
'Big city' retail/restaurant amenities... from Whole Foods to Dave & Busters, J. Crew to California Pizza Kitchen, etc, etc... not to speak of local legends like NFM, Borsheim's Jewelry, excellent local dining (yeah, that's getting into really subjective territory). Even for the rednecks... only metro under 1 million with both a Cabela's and Bass Pro Shops?
I won’t touch the Bass Pro/ Cabela’s comment…it’s too easy.

Actually, things like Whole Foods and Dave & Buster’s and their contemporaries aren’t unique to larger metros. Albuquerque, Colorado Springs and Tucson have locations for this type of fare that supposedly separates Omaha from the pack.

Here’s a list of the top retail/restaurant metros among this peer group.
1.Tucson (La Encantada has Plaza-level retailers like Crate & Barrel, Apple, and Tiffany & Co. in addition to regional malls like Tucson Mall with typical shops like J. Crew, Origins, Forever 21, etc.)
2. Tulsa (Utica Square hosts Saks Fifth Avenue, Fleming’s Prime and local Hall’s department store clone Miss Jackson’s in addition to regional malls like Woodland Hills which has J. Crew, Aldo, Oakley, etc.)
3. Des Moines (Jordan Creek has brought Iowa to the retail forefront in terms of staying current with trendy names like Coach, Cheesecake Factory, and Apple that people there have coveted for years)
4. Albuquerque [Albuquerque’s retail scene is changing drastically as mixed use ABQ Uptown prepares to open. The project is a mix of restaurants (Bravo Cucina Italiana, Elephant Bar), retail (BCBG, Soma by Chico’s, Pottery Barn) and residential in a high profile location.]
5. Omaha (Village Pointe beefed things up in terms of adding new restaurants and retail…Westroads/One Pacific Place area looks to be making a comeback.)
6. Colorado Springs (Leawood Town Center Plaza developer recently put up an all too typical lifestyle center recently with all the typical names: CPK, Coldwater Creek, Ann Taylor)
7. Boise (Probably too isolated to receive much attention from trendy retailers, but Boise’s largest enclosed mall still has the familiar Pottery Barn, Ann Taylor, Williams-Sonoma flags.)
trailer
New to the Neighborhood
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:58 pm
Location: Lawrence, Kansas

Post by trailer »

eomaha.com wrote:oops, sorry... didn't realize you truncated the good stuff... I'll just depart with (pretty weak trailer ;) ).
Almost to the end...
trailerkid wrote: That was only the first 3 topics you mentioned...
transportation (airport/freeways)...ABQ wins
amenities (restaurants/retail)...Tucson wins
corporations (large corporate HQs)...Omaha wins

I have a lot more if you want to invite me on your forum...
eomaha
County Board
Posts: 4200
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:29 am
Location: West Omaha

Post by eomaha »

(and I tried to say before KCPowercat so rudely locked the forum)

This is what you spent so much time on researching? :)

Yeah, ABQ's airport benefits from being a hub (remember those days?)... and I'm impressed that we're still beating out Tucson given all the 'snowbirds' they must handle. Take a look at other airports below Omaha in traffic... many others which are still larger.

Unfortunately, most people still drive cars... if you've been through Tucson or Albuquerque, you'll know that they are absolute nightmares at rush hour. Make fun of West Dodge all you want, but it is now entirely expressway all the way out to Fremont (which by no coincidence is part of the Omaha CSA now). Some cities build beltways miles and miles in the middle of nowhere, arguably contributing to sprawl (<cough> 435). Omaha puts in freeways after an area is developed (and the 1 1/2 miles or so of elevated expressway are the extreme). You might want to include a map which shows 680 circulating around the north and joining up with I-29 as well. The traffic is a breeze in Omaha compared to these other cities (I don't know about Tulsa... I suspect it has had more time to plan... whereas these other southwestern cities have fallen behind their ridiculous growth). Omaha also has a smaller loop (480) around it's core... Des Moines' is ridiculously large compared to it's size... and in my opinion is contributing to it's own sprawl as well. Omaha is making the mistake of studying it's own, even larger beltway as we speak.

On the subject of economy... as much as the 'cow town' thing seems to stick, agriculture doesn't have any more of a 'base' here than the transportation, finance, and telecommunications sectors which are big in Omaha as well. Oh, and it's funny you bring up the defense industry in CO Springs. Recently, the headquarters of 'Space Command' was moved from there to Offutt here in Bellevue. With it, there have been hundreds of new jobs brought by Lockheed and Northrop-Grumman... they both built new buildings in Bellevue in the past 2 years. Along with the increased military role, the Air Force has contracted with a local team of developers to build/renovate a total of 1,400 base housing units. It's good that you mentioned it though... I forgot, Offutt Airbase really is another significant asset for Omaha... one of our largest employers.

I was specifically mentioning our -5- F500 HQ's... if you want me to cite mere 'presence' of F500 companies... the list will be MUCH longer... from First Data... to Paypal... to HP... (and you thought there were alot of insurance companies headquartered in Omaha? there's even more just here to take advantage of our insurance revenue tax breaks) Aflac, Pacific Life... the list is endless. You know what's even more amazing about Omaha's F500 companies... is how many we've GIVEN AWAY! Aquila... Inacom... First Data... Enron... MFS Communications... Level 3... (funny thing is... seems like most of them have tanked after leaving).

National chain retail/restaurants is definitely one of Omaha's weaker areas, but BOY are we coming on! (and without the big, shiny new traditional mall)... we no doubt suffer from the same 'isolation' as Boise. That said, if you add up all the offerings we do have... there really is no city here with any MORE than Omaha. And what we do have... isn't stuck in one destination mall... it's spread throughout several centers in the metro. Even little One Pacific Place gets into the act... seemingly a 'strip mall'. ;) Tucson, to a large extent, benefits from it's tourism/retirement destination status. Of course Omaha will have a hard time keeping up with Tucson in general... as they are adding SIGNIFICANTLY more people than we are (they'll be over one million very soon... if they aren't already... a real 'boom' town... that said, it's still about as exciting as a livable 'city' as Las Vegas... that is to say, it isn't)... it will probably pass up KC before we know it... just as Las Vegas soon will. I don't know about KC folks, but I cringe at this kind of growth.

Now... assign even a conservative rank in each category you've covered thus far... as I see it...

airport: 2
roads: 1
corporate: 1
retail: 3

then keep it going...

I simply contend, Omaha will be at the top when you average all of these together. :)





EDIT: Here's a map which actually shows all of 680/29. These other cities look about as developed as Lincoln.

Image

Tucson also is a player in the film production industry with quite a few productions having filmed in Tucson
I couldn't resist this one... yeah, the place is called 'Old Tucson Studios'... I've been there... a really fun tourist attraction for the kids. ;)
eomaha
County Board
Posts: 4200
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:29 am
Location: West Omaha

Post by eomaha »

Here's some additional Omaha 'big city' factoids... I keep recalling...

It's the smallest metro in the nation with a Federal Reserve Bank branch...

It not only has a Mexican Consulate (yeah, I know... so do ABQ and Tucson... they are afterall within a hop, skip, and a jump of the border)... but Omaha also has Danish and Swedish consulates?! (inside track on an IKEA?) Also among the smallest metros in the nation to have these.


And check out all of those golf courses... do you suppose that 'most golf courses per capita' thing is really true? ;)
trailer
New to the Neighborhood
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:58 pm
Location: Lawrence, Kansas

Post by trailer »

First, I have no problem with you prefering Omaha for whatever reasons and I respect that opinion. My attempt is only to expand the thought of how modern cities are developing. Tulsa and Omaha are probably more alike than ABQ and Omaha will ever be. But just because the western cities do not look like Omaha or Tulsa does not mean there are not many comparisons to be made.
jhuston wrote:
This is what you spent so much time on researching? :)
Well, I looked some stuff up, I went to work, did some errands on campus, did a little research on each city and now here I am. You posted a novella so you must think my findings so far are pretty interesting.

jhuston wrote:
Unfortunately, most people still drive cars... if you've been through Tucson or Albuquerque, you'll know that they are absolute nightmares at rush hour. Make fun of West Dodge all you want, but it is now entirely expressway all the way out to Fremont (which by no coincidence is part of the Omaha CSA now). Some cities build beltways miles and miles in the middle of nowhere, arguably contributing to sprawl (<cough> 435). Omaha puts in freeways after an area is developed (and the 1 1/2 miles or so of elevated expressway are the extreme). You might want to include a map which shows 680 circulating around the north and joining up with I-29 as well. The traffic is a breeze in Omaha compared to these other cities (I don't know about Tulsa... I suspect it has had more time to plan... whereas these other southwestern cities have fallen behind their ridiculous growth). Omaha also has a smaller loop (480) around it's core... Des Moines' is ridiculously large compared to it's size... and in my opinion is contributing to it's own sprawl as well. Omaha is making the mistake of studying it's own, even larger beltway as we speak.
).
What does Omaha do in terms of transportation planning that make it better than the other cities? Is the West Dodge Expressway an example of good transportation planning (ever heard of public transit?) or a band-aid on a large wound? I've driven in Boise during rush hour and they have a large, modern, busy freeway winding through town that didn't look like it ever experienced the kind of headaches one would find on the 680 or 80 during Omaha's rush hour. Using the same judgement that you used in Tucson and ABQ, Boise must be ahead of Omaha in this department.
jhuston wrote:
On the subject of economy... as much as the 'cow town' thing seems to stick, agriculture doesn't have any more of a 'base' here than the transportation, finance, and telecommunications sectors which are big in Omaha as well. Oh, and it's funny you bring up the defense industry in CO Springs. Recently, the headquarters of 'Space Command' was moved from there to Offutt here in Bellevue. With it, there have been hundreds of new jobs brought by Lockheed and Northrop-Grumman... they both built new buildings in Bellevue in the past 2 years. Along with the increased military role, the Air Force has contracted with a local team of developers to build/renovate a total of 1,400 base housing units. It's good that you mentioned it though... I forgot, Offutt Airbase really is another significant asset for Omaha... one of our largest employers.

I was specifically mentioning our -5- F500 HQ's... if you want me to cite mere 'presence' of F500 companies... the list will be MUCH longer... from First Data... to Paypal... to HP... (and you thought there were alot of insurance companies headquartered in Omaha? there's even more just here to take advantage of our insurance revenue tax breaks) Aflac, Pacific Life... the list is endless. You know what's even more amazing about Omaha's F500 companies... is how many we've GIVEN AWAY! Aquila... Inacom... First Data... Enron... MFS Communications... Level 3... (funny thing is... seems like most of them have tanked after leaving).
No doubt that Omaha has more large corporate HQ than Boise, ABQ and the like. But could a correlation be made between the type of employers in these areas and the explosive growth they are experiencing? With the exception of Tulsa, many of these cities have been wildly successful with a mixture of large public research centers, high-tech engineering and major public universities.

I know for people in Nebraska it doesn't make sense that big old line companies(ag, insurance, banks, etc.) and more Fortue 500 firms don't mean an economy is "better"; but high-tech jobs and the educated, creative workers are what will fuel these cities of the 21st century. I'm sure Omaha has these and blah, blah, blah, but the concentration of these types of jobs is nowhere near as high in Omaha. These employment groupings are surely part of the reason these western cities have quickly come into the peer group of old-liners like Tulsa and Omaha.
jhuston wrote: National chain retail/restaurants is definitely one of Omaha's weaker areas, but BOY are we coming on! (and without the big, shiny new traditional mall)... we no doubt suffer from the same 'isolation' as Boise. That said, if you add up all the offerings we do have... there really is no city here with any MORE than Omaha. Tucson, to a large extent, benefits from it's tourism/retirement destination status. Of course Omaha will have a hard time keeping up with Tucson in general... as they are adding SIGNIFICANTLY more people than we are (they'll be over one million very soon... if they aren't already... a real 'boom' town... that said, it's still about as exciting as a livable 'city' as Las Vegas... that is to say, it isn't)... it will probably pass up KC before we know it... just as Las Vegas soon will.
Omaha is in a great location for retail relative to Boise for God's sake. You are within a day's drive to Chicago, MPLS, KC, and Denver. What is Boise within a day's drive to? Spokane and Denver? Yipeee...

How are you ahead of Des Moines or ABQ in terms of retail/restaurants]? Jordan Creek is bringing new retailers in years before they come to the Omaha market. What upscale, mixed use, high profile center is there in Omaha that will come close to ABQ Uptown? ABQ Uptown is the type of thing other cities are replacing malls like Crossroads with. I'd say The Springs and Omaha are in a dead heat in terms of retail and Tucson and Tulsa are out of everyone else's league.

1. Tucson
2. Tulsa
3. DsM
4. ABQ
5. Omaha
6. Colorado Springs
7. Boise
jhuston wrote: Yeah, ABQ's airport benefits from being a hub (remember those days?)... and I'm impressed that we're still beating out Tucson given all the 'snowbirds' they must handle. Take a look at other airports below Omaha in traffic... many others which are still larger.
I really don't know where you're going with the "take a look at larger aiports" thing. What about them? Boise's airport just had its best year ever. I think Tulsa's airport is larger than Omaha's and it handles less passengers...and? Tucson's airport handles virtually the same number of passengers (anyone got any numbers for '06 between these two?)as Omaha and ABQ is getting ready to double up on you.
User avatar
Omaha Cowboy
The Don
Posts: 1013167
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:31 am
Location: West Omaha

Post by Omaha Cowboy »

trailer wrote: Omaha is in a great location for retail relative to Boise for God's sake. You are within a day's drive to Chicago, MPLS, KC, and Denver. What is Boise within a day's drive to? Spokane and Denver? Yipeee...

How are you ahead of Des Moines or ABQ in terms of retail/restaurants]? Jordan Creek is bringing new retailers in years before they come to the Omaha market. What upscale, mixed use, high profile center is there in Omaha that will come close to ABQ Uptown? ABQ Uptown is the type of thing other cities are replacing malls like Crossroads with. I'd say The Springs and Omaha are in a dead heat in terms of retail and Tucson and Tulsa are out of everyone else's league.

1. Tucson
2. Tulsa
3. DsM
4. ABQ
5. Omaha
6. Colorado Springs
7. Boise

.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions..And differeing ones make the world 'go 'round' as they say..But as it relates to this point specifically..Des Moines basically got 5 tennants before Omaha did: Apple Store, Cheesecake factory, Coach, J Crew and Joe's Crab Shack. 4 of those 5 are either currently building a store or have already opened in Omaha. The 5th, Joe's Crab shack, is purportedly on it's way..Usually, Omaha achieves these kind of stores years before Des Moines does..And Omaha still does. For example: Dillards, D & B's, California Pizza Kitchen, Chipotle, Kona Grill, Z Gallerie, Wild Oats Market, Whole Foods Market, Flemming's, etc etc..The list goes on and on..And other than a Saks, Omaha has more new retail/eateries moving into it's metro than does Tulsa at the present time (check out the retailers web sites to validate). I'd put Omaha in the top 3 of the list of cities you're comparing Omaha too..

And for the record, I do believe Omaha's airport is larger than Tulsa's ..And Omaha annually has the larger passenger count (as does Omaha over Oklahoma City)..

In every catagory mentioned in this discussion, Omaha rates as high or higher than it's 'peer cities' of Tulsa, Albuquerque, or even Tucson..Considering I've actually spent fairly considerable time in every one of those cities, I feel comfortable saying that with mucho confidence..Understanding that NONE of us are really an authority; and we all have our personal city preferences for whatever reason or agenda..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace
Last edited by Omaha Cowboy on Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Go Cowboys!
trailer
New to the Neighborhood
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:58 pm
Location: Lawrence, Kansas

Post by trailer »

Omaha Cowboy wrote: Everyone is entitled to their opinions..And differeing ones make the world 'go 'round' as they say..But as it relates to this point specifically..Des Moines basically got 5 tennents before Omaha did: Apple Store, Cheesecake factory, Coach, J Crew and Joe's Crab Shack. 4 of those 5 are either currently building a store or have already opened in Omaha. The 5th, Joe's Crab shack, is purportedly on it's way..Usually, Omaha achieves these kind of stores years before Des Moines does..And Omaha still does. For example: Dillards, D & B's, California Pizza Kitchen, Chipotle, Kona Grill, Z Gallerie, Wild Oats Market, Whole Foods Market, Flemming's, etc etc..The list goes on and on..
Chipotle? I always thought it was really bizarre when Lawrence had two before Omaha had one...funny it took a Colorado chain that long to get to Nebraska.

Please do go on with more that makes Omaha superior-- I don't see it...Jordan Creek has Ulta, Costco (how can Omaha not have something as omnipresent as Costco?) Rampage, Brighton, Aldo, Forever 21, Bravo, Steve Madden, Fossil, Jared Jewlery, Brookstone + Cheesecake FATory and whatever else people in Omaha wet their pants about.

The retail discussion isn't about what happend 5 years ago or what you think will happen 5 years from now...as it stand right now:
1. Tucson
2. Tulsa
3. Des Moines
4. ABQ
5. Omaha
6. Colorado Springs
7. Boise
trailer
New to the Neighborhood
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:58 pm
Location: Lawrence, Kansas

Post by trailer »

Also,

Which peer city they would choose to live in given the choice (you can use pragmaticism in your decision or pretend like you won the lottery). Please give a brief, one to two sentence expanation as to why you made the choice that you did.

Omaha or Tulsa?
Omaha or Boise? Boise is actually a quite surprisingly interesting area, but I could not live in that part of the country. I just could never say I lived in Idaho of all places-- sounds the same way as someone from Idaho saying they're moving to Kansas or Nebraska.
Omaha or Colorado Springs? I don't really like Colorado much, but I find the mass transportation options and general political/social attitudes much more welcoming than Omaha.
Omaha or Tucson? I have a feeling Tucson would feel too fake for me, but the University of Arizona is a giant selling point for this emerging metro. You can't have a school like Arizona there and not have a bevy of cultural offerings.
Omaha or ABQ? I like ABQ's proximity to the West Coast while still having Southwest heritage in tact. Another massive selling point for ABQ is U of NM.
Omaha or Des Moines? This is quite a close call, but I kind of admire the state of Iowa. Des Moines also seems like more of a mini-MPLS and Omaha as more of a mini-KC/Denver.
Last edited by trailer on Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Omaha Cowboy
The Don
Posts: 1013167
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:31 am
Location: West Omaha

Post by Omaha Cowboy »

Dude..

Your postings here (thus far) are not constructive..And are only ment to be provocative for trolling flame purposes IMO..Nothing anyone will say here will ever convince you..Your disdain for Omaha is well documented over on the KC site..That you carry this 'attitude' over to our Omaha site is no suprise..

The point is, this discussion is really a useless one. Again, NOTHING anyone could point out to you will ever change your negative dislike for our city. It's a waste of our time (and really yours as well)..The root of your problem with Omaha seems to be your dislike for the 'Big Red', and a perceived republican influence (however if voter registration is any indication, the city of Omaha is decidedly split 50/50 Dem and Rep..Omaha's 2nd term mayor is a DEMOCRAT)..

I know you were invited to post here..But if you continue to waste time with this sort of discourse, I suggest you take it back to the Kansas City site..Where it will undoubtedly be more 'well received'..

I'm done with this thread. Unless I'm drawn back to lock or delete it..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace
Go Cowboys!
trailer
New to the Neighborhood
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:58 pm
Location: Lawrence, Kansas

Post by trailer »

[quote="jhuston"]
Are these hard facts starting to sink in? [quote]

I was about to ask you the same question...the only thing Omaha tops in the first round is # of corporate HQs.

I don't get the transportation thing...you were in traffic in Tucson so that makes it worse than Omaha. I've been in traffic in both cities before. I've been in Boise and had no problems whatsoever. Does that make them #1? I think for this category there must be a more specific measure...do you want price of highway construction projects? Or maybe number/availibility of mass transit? You make the call...

I don't think there is any question that Omaha is surely not #1 in terms of retail/restaurants or airport passengers (what kind of category is that anyway?).
trailer
New to the Neighborhood
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:58 pm
Location: Lawrence, Kansas

Post by trailer »

jhuston wrote: EDIT: Here's a map which actually shows all of 680/29. These other cities look about as developed as Lincoln.
Many of them are still doing quite well in the battle royal-- no matter how "developed" they look to you.
jhuston wrote: I couldn't resist this one... yeah, the place is called 'Old Tucson Studios'... I've been there... a really fun tourist attraction for the kids. ;)
I don't know of what movies were filmed in Omaha besides that Alexander Payne stuff.

Tucson surely has a few more hits under its belt than About Schmidt and Election: Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore (1974), Arizona (1940), Bodies, Rest and Motion (1993), Boys on the Side (1995), C.C. and Company (1970), Can't Buy Me Love (1987), Dance with the Devil (1997), Flashpoint (1984), Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man (1991), Hombre (1967), How the West Was Won (1962), Jesus' Son (1999), A Kiss Before Dying (1956), Lilies of the Field (1963), Major League (1989), The Postman (1997), Revenge of the Nerds (1984), Revenge of the Nerds II: Nerds in Paradise (1987), Rio Bravo (1959), A Star Is Born (1976), Stir Crazy (1980), Terminal Velocity (1994), The Three Amigos (1986), Thunder Alley (1985), Tin Cup (1996), and Tombstone (1993).
eomaha
County Board
Posts: 4200
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:29 am
Location: West Omaha

Post by eomaha »

Let's just cut to the 'chase'... average commute time from the census bureau. ;)

Rank Place Average Lower Bound Upper Bound
43 Albuquerque city, NM 21.5 19.9 23.2
57 Tucson city, AZ 20.4 19.7 21.1
58 Colorado Springs city, CO 20.3 18.8 21.8
67 Omaha city, NE 17.3 16.6 18.0
68 Tulsa city, OK 16.8 15.6 18.0
69 Wichita city, KS 16.5 15.7 17.3

Odd my own experience mirrors their findings in at least a 'relative' manner. I guess Boise was such a leisurely drive, they didn't even show up on the scale. :)



As for the significance of airport passengers... an indirect indicator of service. I guess I should have gone straight to the non-stop destinations figure.

And I don't mean to steal your angle... but what's the significance of how many movies were shot in a given city anyway? That's like me bragging that 3 of the top 6 greatest screen legends of all time came from Omaha. ;)
eomaha
County Board
Posts: 4200
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:29 am
Location: West Omaha

Post by eomaha »

By the way, do you see anything in common between those three fastest commute cities there? ;)

You know, as much as I've enjoyed this little exercise... once again, I think the only thing we've proven here is... you're as tireless in your interest in undermining Omaha's standing (not necessarily promoting that of these other random cities) ... as I am in promoting it. You're not offering anything new or compelling... and I'm tired.

Buh bye.
Locked