New Devon Tower in OKC--20th Tallest in the Nation!

[iamjacobm]

Very cool.

[Linkin5]

Found this on the internet.  Whoawhoaweewhoa.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Whoawhoaweewhoa is right! Jealous!

[dmoor82]

 it all ready dwarfs everything!

[dmoor82]

The Devon Energy Center is now topped out at a final height of 844'ft tall.This tower has sure turned out to be a beauty!

[dmoor82]

Photo by MadMonk @OKCTalk

[Coyote]

Awesome!Thanks for posting!

[thenewguy]

That perspective makes the skyline look like a cell phone signal bar

[Stargazer]

That is crazy tall... looks out of place, but I'm totally jealous.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

That is crazy tall... looks out of place...

I agree. It's too big both in height and mass/width. Plus, with the hazy sky and the road and sidewalk in the foreground, it looks like it would be the skyline of a third-world, desert, oil-producing country. Maybe that's not a coincidence...

[S33]

Looks badass - If it were proposed for Omaha, you all would be changing your shorts.

[iamjacobm]

Looks badass - If it were proposed for Omaha, you all would be changing your shorts.

This.  I don't care how much taller it is than the rest of DT, that thing is legit.

[almighty_tuna]

Looks badass - If it were proposed for Omaha, you all would be changing your shorts.

This.  I don't care how much taller it is than the rest of DT, that thing is legit.

No kidding! I'll take that any day. Out of place? no way, just an opportunity for more infill ;)

[ShawJ]

Hey, the John Hancock Center was out of place when it was first built.

I think it looks great, it's just too bad they couldn't reach the 1000ft mark.

[Greg S]

For the height obsessed, this is great for OKC.  I think it looks too out of place.  If they can get a 2nd tour even close to it in height that would really help.

Greg

[Stargazer]

I certainly wouldn't complain... but if it were proposed in Omaha... I would prefer 2 x 400 footers rather than this.

[Brad]

I saw it on a TV commercial yesterday during one of the football games.

[S33]

I saw it on a TV commercial yesterday during one of the football games.

I can see the top of it from my upstairs bedroom window.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Many people (and I agree with them) believe that massive skyscrapers, like the classic American suburb, represent an egregious misallocation of resources and that they really don't have a future when we start to think about resource and energy scarcity. For this reason, places that are over-burdened with these structures (chiefly places like NYC and Chicago) are not positioned well to cope with future realities.

It's a little like putting up a massive, elevated, urban freeway. Oops, I guess we boo-booed, too.

[Garrett]

Many people (and I agree with them) believe that massive skyscrapers, like the classic American suburb, represent an egregious misallocation of resources and that they really don't have a future when we start to think about resource and energy scarcity. For this reason, places that are over-burdened with these structures (chiefly places like NYC and Chicago) are not positioned well to cope with future realities.

It's a little like putting up a massive, elevated, urban freeway. Oops, I guess we boo-booed, too.

You, sir, are the ultimate contradiction.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

How so?

[Linkin5]

How so?

I believe he means you make no sense.

[NovakOmaha]

I could be a snarky smart |expletive| & say "Hey everyone!  Streets, who said he was leaving this board forever, is back!", but no.

I think I'll stick with this.  In the spirit of the season thank god we live in America where morons can build mcmansions & then get in their gas guzzling car and drive alone to the ocean-sized parking lot of the mega suburb mall then get on the 12 lane wide freeway to their overly tall office tower that isnt leed certified.  

Welcome back Streets.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Been "back" a while now. Yes, from time to time many of you drive me insane with your ignorance (in the literal sense) of the issues under discussion, and your assuredness and certainty that you know what I'm all about and that you have me pegged. It's when those discussions have gotten to the level of absurdity and, often, when I am too laden with more important considerations to devote any more energy to said worthless discussions, that I have proclaimed that I am leaving the forum.

But then, let's face it, this is the best clearinghouse for information on what is going on in urban development in Omaha, and, I admit, that keeps me coming back.

Linkin, exactly. And I'm wondering why he feels that way seeing as there is nothing contradictory in the remarks to which he is referring.

Welcome "back" indeed. Welcome back to a thought-free, nuance-free, black-and-white zone.

[nativeomahan]

How so?

Well, for someone who has pounded home his strong distaste for low density developments surrounded by vast parking lots and empty spaces, and who seems to have as his mission in life transforming America's cities from what most of them are to high density neighborhoods feeding into dense urban cores, criss crossed with trolleys, subways, bike lanes, and made inconvenient for automobile usage, to now declare that cities like Chicago and NYC (and I might add Toronto, Seattle, San Francisco, Dallas, Minneapolis, Denver, Miami, Atlanta and several others) are now becoming overburdened by high density skyscrapers, well, my head is beginning to spin.

Tokyo, Shanghai, Bangkok, Beijing, Hong Kong and many other Asian cities have adopted America's obsession with building things tall, and taken the obsession to the next level.  They all seem to be flourishing.  NYC is by far North America's número uno megalopolis (I guess unless you include Mexico City), and I see no evidence that it has become overburdened by its legendary density.  Same with the others I listed.  Now, the Middle Eastern cities like Dubai may have gone on a big building bender, but for the rest of the world, such construction has only added to the vibe and intense excitement that comes with living and working in such urban centers.

For the record, Aaron, I concur with the majority of your thinking relating to the transformation of urban areas into more liveable, ecologically friendly, diverse places to live and work.  I have spent enough time in NYC, Boston, DC, Chicago and San Francisco to know what a great city looks and feels like.  I am just confused by your latest post.  Maybe I read it wrong.

And I will just add that I appreciate 90% of the comments I read on the Forum.  Even those I may disagree with.  What I detest are those postings that show a disrespect for the opinions of others.  Sarcasm can be a wonderful seasoning, but it is best used sparingly, so as not to overpower the basic message one is intending to share with others at the table.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I have spent enough time in NYC, Boston, DC, Chicago and San Francisco to know what a great city looks and feels like.  I am just confused by your latest post.  Maybe I read it wrong.

You might have. Sure, these cities seem to be doing fine now, just as most people are continuing their happy-motoring lifestyles. But there will be a day--and it may be sooner than later--when these megastructures will become a burden. Where will future energy come from to up-keep them? How can they be adaptively re-used once they can no longer be maintained? They'll most likely turn into vertical ghettos. And, don't get me wrong, as far as I'm concerned this has nothing to do with global warming or anything like that. I know some people hear certain words like "energy scarcity" and they automatically make some association to global warming or some other conflated issue (not saying you are one of these people).

I feel like some people think anti-skyscraper is anti-urban or anti-density. It's not. It's sad that that's our association with urbanity in America. We'd rather have big buildings that are impressive from far away than have functional, livable, enriching street space.

I was just in NYC over the Thanksgiving holiday. It's actually quite a |expletive| hole. From far away, sure, all the big buildings are mind-boggling, but to actually be in the city is not a good feeling; extreme overcrowding, pedestrians crammed onto crumbling sidewalks like sardines, cramped subways, dangerous traffic, the streetscape is completely dwarfed by the over-sized buildings... etc. etc. We all think NYC is so great because we've been indoctrinated into thinking of it as the greatest city in the world. So, when we're there, we look past all of it's many failures.

I only bring that up as an aside to respond to your comment of having spent enough time in places like this to know "what a great city looks and feels like".

I'm just asking people to take a second to ponder: what is the future of a skyscraper?

[almighty_tuna]

As a mod I need to not be a dick on the forums...as much. But, Streets, your posts are just mind boggling. You may be a great guy in person, and maybe if you're back in Omaha we can have a beer and discuss policy. But right now? on this forum? you are effing batshit crazy. I really don't get your ideals and utopian, contradictory arguments. good grief, man.

[S33]

He's a top-level, well-seasoned troll, and he plays us like a fiddle. I can actually respect him for that.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Tuna, this has nothing to do with utopian ideas or ideals; if anything, this is a dystopian vision that is completely realistic given energy projections. We're going to run out of oil. This is a fact. Nuclear energy is ape-|expletive| dangerous. Renewables simply are not going to supply enough power to sustain our current lifestyles and these megastructures we keep hoisting up. They're just not. I'm still curious where people are finding contradictions and what is so befuddling about what I'm suggesting.

And frankly, I'm just saying. I actually don't care too much about these ideas. People can accept them or not; it won't change the outcome.

And sure, I would love to get a beer. I'll be back in Omaha for about a whole month starting around Dec. 19.

[Stargazer]

While I think Streets is an unhappy person in general and would find something else to whine about if he couldn't find it here... I personally think our suburban lifestyle is a ticking time bomb as well, not because of energy sustainability.  Most Americans don't realize just how dependent all we have here is on the status of the US dollar as the world's trade currency of choice.  If that ever changes, and with the way Washington is waffling around on addressing our astronomical debt pile, it may well sooner than later... most of our population is going to end up roaming the streets out here like zombies.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Jeff, you're actually totally correct. While it's belittling to classify my comments as whining, you are 100% right. I am extremely unhappy right now. Everything I see around me is a huge, embarrassing failure. It kind of wears you down after a while. Albany is a disheartening, demoralizing, decaying, decrepit, depressing |expletive| hole. It's all of America's failures rolled up into one location without any redeming qualities (except the ones that have to do with owning a car and being able to "escape" to some of the nicer, but still shitty, places in the region). Every day that I walk out my front door I'm reminded of how far we've fallen as a society. For people who shelter themselves from reality in the suburbs or behind a windshield... well, as you described, the day of reckoning is coming. I've just gotten a nice preview living here in New York State.

And yes, I know. That's not a happy, comfortable thought. That's kind of the point.

[S33]

While I think Streets is an unhappy person in general and would find something else to whine about if he couldn't find it here... I personally think our suburban lifestyle is a ticking time bomb as well, not because of energy sustainability.  Most Americans don't realize just how dependent all we have here is on the status of the US dollar as the world's trade currency of choice.  If that ever changes, and with the way Washington is waffling around on addressing our astronomical debt pile, it may well sooner than later... most of our population is going to end up roaming the streets out here like zombies.

In this instance, what does that have to do with the Suburbs? If our local economies eventually reflect the financial situation of our federal government, which is a ticking time bomb, then you will find that the closer you get to rural areas, is where you will find small factions of people teaming up for security and self-sufficiency.

Do I think things will ever get to that point? I hope not. But the inner city is the last place you would ever want to find yourself in total economic collapse. Your best chance for getting food would be waiting in line for days for a loaf of bread and some cold soup.

I know I sound like a tin foil hate wearing nutball, but the fact is, our government is unable to function and change spending habits (see "super committee"), China/Japan/Brazil/Russia are all weaning themselves from purchasing our treasury, and once that happens, the federal funding trickling down to the states will shutdown, the purchasing power of our personal savings will be sharply diminished, and everything else follows as a domino effect. (DTO, if you happen across this, that is when it reaches your kitchen table)

It's what we get for establishing higher educational institutions who's core focus is to teach their students how to create financial instruments and criminal hedge funds to drum up artificial values from thin air, all while manipulating basic financial principles, and severely undermining the financial system.

Jeff, you're actually totally correct. While it's belittling to classify my comments as whining, you are 100% right. I am extremely unhappy right now. Everything I see around me is a huge, embarrassing failure. It kind of wears you down after a while. Albany is a disheartening, decaying, decrepit, depressing |expletive| hole. It's all of America's failures rolled up into one location without any redeming qualities (except the ones that have to do with owning a car and being able to "escape" to some of the nicer, but still |expletive|, places in the region). Every day that I walk out my front door I'm reminded of how far we've fallen as a society. For people who shelter themselves from reality in the suburbs or behind a windshield... well, as you described, the day of reckoning is coming. I've just gotten a nice preview living here in New York State.

And yes, I know. That's not a happy, comfortable thought. That's kind of the point.

We all have our gripes, yours is clearly city planning, and clearly, mine is the above. I was giving you |expletive| with the troll comment, fyi.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Oh, I know, man.  :)

Frankly, I completely agree with everything you've just said. I truly think the worst is yet to come, and people are shitting themselves if they think we're on the upswing right now, or that we ever emerged from the recession/depression. We're headed for third-world status, which is kind of a blow to the ego of a country that claims to be the best in the world, to put it mildly.

It's for all these reasons that continuing to hoist up these megastructures is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. That's why I made the comment about the OKC skyline photo looking like a third-world desert skyline; you can marvel at the big buildings from far away, but the underlying reality (partially evident in the weird transportation infrastructure in the foreground of that shot) is chaos.

[Linkin5]

So if suburbia=bad and dense tall buildings=bad, what is the happy medium?  Sprawling 10 story buildings clustered together?  Or should we start building underground tunnels to live in, or maybe treehouses?

[S33]

So if suburbia=bad and dense tall buildings=bad, what is the happy medium?  Sprawling 10 story buildings clustered together?  Or should we start building underground tunnels to live in, or maybe treehouses?

Tree houses, that could be fun. I think Street's point is that it takes a functioning electrical grid, teams of highly-skilled engineers, and significant resources to sustain massive structures - which would render those structures as massive, decaying artifacts in times of depression.

On the other hand - I don't mean to continue my beligerent tangent here, but I'm at a loss for words.

If you haven't already heard, we are now bailing out Europe from their massive piles of debt, while ignoring our own. But here's the kicker; what are we bailing them out with? MORE PRINTED MONEY!!!

But, not only are we abusing the dollar again, but we are offering it at a fraction of the cost of what it should cost to borrow : )

Currently, the dollar is taking a nose dive because of this move, and every single one of you are being affected by it.


Fed bails out Europe while ECB dithers

It’s only coordinated in the sense that the Federal Reserve is printing the dollars and the European Central Bank and other central banks put the greenbacks in the virtual vaults of mangled commercial banks that are drowning in European debt. See story on Fed action.

But it’s not coordinated in the sense that the ECB taking any bold action of its own to stem the euro-zone debt crisis.

The ECB on Tuesday accidentally wandered into quantitative easing, basically when banks didn’t want to commit to lending money to the Frankfurt-based central bank, which effectively meant that a tiny sliver of the purchases of Spanish and Italian debt it made were funded from money printed out of thin air.

Fed, central banks slash dollar borrowing costs
Lower price on dollar swap lines as Europe tensions rise

FRANKFURT (MarketWatch) — Global central banks announced coordinated action on Wednesday to shore up liquidity in the financial system as Europe’s banking system showed growing signs of stress.

The moves were announced in statements issued simultaneously by the U.S. Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank, the Bank of England, the Bank of Japan and the Swiss National Bank.

“The purpose of these actions is to ease strains in financial markets and thereby mitigate the effects of such strains on the supply of credit to households and businesses and so help foster economic activity,” the banks said.

The central banks agreed to lower the pricing on existing temporary U.S. dollar liquidity swap arrangements by 50 basis points, putting the new rate as the U.S. dollar overnight index swap rate plus 50 basis points.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

So if suburbia=bad and dense tall buildings=bad, what is the happy medium?  Sprawling 10 story buildings clustered together?  Or should we start building underground tunnels to live in, or maybe treehouses?

Are you seriously suggesting that there is no in-between? It's either suburbia or skyscrapers? This is where I'm confused that what I'm saying is so befuddling to people.

Well, since you asked, Midtown Crossing, the Old Market, Aksarben Village, the type of development we're seeing in North Downtown, the Near South Side/Little Italy, and Market West, as well as neighborhoods like Benson, Dundee, and South Omaha are all great examples of places on the spectrum of livable urban density.

[Stargazer]

High rises have very little to do with what I'm talking about .. it's the rampant waste.   I hope it doesn't come to our economic collapse, but if does... the last place you're going to want to be is out in the suburbs, in your energy sucking two-story, 3 car garage home (yes, I live in one too), far from the few jobs which remain, the grocer (or soup line depending on how dire your situation ends up), and the bus line.  At least in 'urban' Omaha you'll be able to walk to the breadline.  It will be the 'minimalists', living in that Benson bungalow, with the basement apartment they can rent out to help supplement their drastically smaller income, who are going to get by.  Even as our fragile economy continues to crawl along, the suburbs represent the burden we have in terms of maintaining infrastructure with dwindling tax revenues (or at least an increasingly smaller piece of a pie left after government employee entitlements).  There will be some kind of correction eventually.  People are going to suffer (or at least adjust to a new 'standard of living')... it's just a matter of how widespread and how bad the suffering is.  If hard decisions are made about things like Social Security and government pensions... military spending... etc, etc... yes, even Streets' smarter civic planning... a huge collapse could possibly be avoided.  But if the same old partisan politicians keep fighting for the yoke as we careen into the ground, it will indeed be that... a crash of epic proportions.

[S33]

(I think) the severity of the inevitable economic downturn will determine where best to live and try and maintain some decent level of quality-of-life. However, that is impossible to tell, which is why so many Americans have been educating themselves on self-sufficiency, for better or worse.

[Linkin5]

So if suburbia=bad and dense tall buildings=bad, what is the happy medium?  Sprawling 10 story buildings clustered together?  Or should we start building underground tunnels to live in, or maybe treehouses?

Are you seriously suggesting that there is no in-between? It's either suburbia or skyscrapers? This is where I'm confused that what I'm saying is so befuddling to people.

Well, since you asked, Midtown Crossing, the Old Market, Aksarben Village, the type of development we're seeing in North Downtown, the Near South Side/Little Italy, and Market West, as well as neighborhoods like Benson, Dundee, and South Omaha are all great examples of places on the spectrum of livable urban density.

But in a place like NYC this would be impossible and without the skyscraper things would be even more sprawled out, would it not?

[StreetsOfOmaha]

You disagree about nuclear power? I think history has a few examples that might change your mind. And, oh yea... coal is such an excellent energy source.  :roll:

Wind power is great, just like all the renewables. They'll just never be enough to power our current lifestyles, at least not without massive gaps of time between now and when that happens, to the tune of hundreds of years.

Why is it so surprising that I feel this way about places like NYC and even Chicago (though I would choose the latter over the former if given the choice)? Are we not allowed to grow and mature and have view points that develop and evolve over time based on our experiences? Yeah, when I was a young dumb kid I though NYC and Chicago were mind-blowlingly awesome. Now, as I've said, I just see huge disparaging discrepancies and failures juxtaposed against mammoth buildings with a ton of people around. A ton of people and big buildings does not a great city make.

Linkin, why would it be impossible in NYC? Why have American cities not spread out as necessary to sustain a reasonable, livable level of density? Spreading out isn't bad in and of itself. See virtually every European city for an example of this.  In America, just like with so many other things, we've created a world of immense extremes and we're now learning how horrible many of the decisions we've invested in really were.