METRO at CWS

[OmahaJaysCU]

I'm not sure how many of you all have been down to the CWS yet, but I've noticed an enormous presence of the METRO bus system.  Their CWS circular routes and their buses that go to Westroads and Oakview, etc, seemed to be in high use.  They all seemed to be their new buses too.

Anyone else notice this?

Just my two cents, but I feel that if METRO can make a positive impression on riders at the CWS this will help amplify public sentiment IN FAVOR of streetcars.  Same goes for the Starskys/Barretts/etc shuttles.

[Brad]

I saw them all lined up the other night on the west side of the stadium.

[Big E]

Used one for the 6 PM game last night.  It was full and turning away passengers by the time it got to 16th and Harney or so.

Please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please continue this service after the CWS, particularly evenings and weekends.

[bigredmed]

Drove through downtown on Saturday morning while running errands.  Noticed a bunch of metro buses.  Agree that the circulator function would be great to continue on Friday and Saturday nights.  

Don't agree with Street cars.   I think most people get that these are infrastructure nightmares and don't really accomplish anymore than a competent bus system could with MUCH less infrastructure and at a lower cost.  Also, most people get that buses can be redirected so routes that are really busy on Fridays, but not on Sundays don't have inadequate service on Friday or too much service on Sundays.

[cdub]

The circulator is doing giant numbers indeed.  Unfortunately, as much as it would be useful to some, there isn't near the impetus without CWS.  This is not to say that many are not still trying to figure out a way to do it.

[the1wags]

BigRed, I think most people get that developers don't build for bus lines. Portland saw $3.5B in development within 3 blocks of their streetcar in 11 years. Seattle has seen $2.4B in development within 3 blocks of its streetcar in 8 years. Streetcars bring developement dollars that bus routes don't, period.

As far as the buses, I completely support them continuing the circulator evenings and weekends in lieu of streetcars, for now.

[Big E]

BigRed, I think most people get that developers don't build for bus lines. Portland saw $3.5B in development within 3 blocks of their streetcar in 11 years. Seattle has seen $2.4B in development within 3 blocks of its streetcar in 8 years. Streetcars bring developement dollars that bus routes don't, period.

As far as the buses, I completely support them continuing the circulator evenings and weekends in lieu of streetcars, for now.

Agreed on all.  While there's certainly no guarantee that a streetcar will bring X-billion dollars in development, you can guarantee buses won't.  The bus circulator would be great to service the existing developments, but it won't spur significant new.  It might fill some empty bays on 16th, though.

[S33]

Here's an article I found a while back, the last time we had a discussion about whether the streetcars alone were an impetus for development and how buses were, for lack of a better description, non-factors.

[bigredmed]

BigRed, I think most people get that developers don't build for bus lines. Portland saw $3.5B in development within 3 blocks of their streetcar in 11 years. Seattle has seen $2.4B in development within 3 blocks of its streetcar in 8 years. Streetcars bring developement dollars that bus routes don't, period.

As far as the buses, I completely support them continuing the circulator evenings and weekends in lieu of streetcars, for now.

Agreed on all.  While there's certainly no guarantee that a streetcar will bring X-billion dollars in development, you can guarantee buses won't.  The bus circulator would be great to service the existing developments, but it won't spur significant new.  It might fill some empty bays on 16th, though.

Yes, but my arguments were that streetcars are infrastructure pigs.  Streetcar lines make road and sewer repair more expensive by the need to either pave around them or moving them to get to pipes below them.

The "cool kids" neighborhood gets a sweet new street car line that the rest of the city ends up supporting directly through more taxes or indirectly through reduced services elsewhere.   Streetcars are great for the neighborhoods that get them but suck for the rest of the city that doesn't.  These systems end up costing so much to build and run (and rarely even break even, much less make profits) that transportation and other needs for neighborhoods that don't get support of such a system get the bills and they get less money available for their needs.

How many of the billions in development in Seattle and Portland came from TIF financing or other "government picks the winners-type" public financing models?   How many of the developers billions actually came out of their pocket as new money and into their new business without government cash mingling into it?  This is important in sorting out just how exciting these are.   If we have to bleed an already cash-strapped city to build and subsidize the street car line, and then bleed it again to pay for the all the TIF-based developments, kindly let me know, so I can go long on U-hauls moving to Sarpy County.

Hello, its the ghost of St. Louis calling for you.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I'm not sure how many of you all have been down to the CWS yet, but I've noticed an enormous presence of the METRO bus system.  Their CWS circular routes and their buses that go to Westroads and Oakview, etc, seemed to be in high use.  They all seemed to be their new buses too.

Anyone else notice this?

Just my two cents, but I feel that if METRO can make a positive impression on riders at the CWS this will help amplify public sentiment IN FAVOR of streetcars.  Same goes for the Starskys/Barretts/etc shuttles.

That is awesome to hear! And I completely agree that it is a fantastic form of "outreach" to get many of the suburbanites who attend the game exposed to the possibilities.

[Seth]

People I work with have parked at Midtown Crossing and rode their shuttle to the CWS as well.  I even overheard suburbanites from 180th-and-something recommending it to others.

These are great opportunities to correct the misconceptions about mass transit.

[HuskerDave]

People I work with have parked at Midtown Crossing and rode their shuttle to the CWS as well.  I even overheard suburbanites from 180th-and-something recommending it to others.

These are great opportunities to correct the misconceptions about mass transit.

Seth, I know what you're saying; but you're mistaken if you think "suburbanites" would ride the bus more, if only they knew how great it was... Cars are still the best way to get around from point to point, until some event like the CWS makes it more convenient to park and ride in a large group.  We don't ride the bus because we don't want to ride the bus, not because we just haven't been enlightened.

[Coyote]

Fans hit home run with traffic

Thousands of College World Series fans have been taking buses or shuttles to this year's games, making driving and parking downtown much easier. “It's been fantastic,” said Todd Pfitzer, the City of Omaha's traffic engineer. “The circulator has been hugely popular. They're packed. We never thought they'd be utilized to that level.”

[Seth]

People I work with have parked at Midtown Crossing and rode their shuttle to the CWS as well.  I even overheard suburbanites from 180th-and-something recommending it to others.

These are great opportunities to correct the misconceptions about mass transit.

Seth, I know what you're saying; but you're mistaken if you think "suburbanites" would ride the bus more, if only they knew how great it was... Cars are still the best way to get around from point to point, until some event like the CWS makes it more convenient to park and ride in a large group.  We don't ride the bus because we don't want to ride the bus, not because we just haven't been enlightened.

I think it's a little more complex than you describe.  I agree that typical low-density, segregated-use suburban development is not attractive for public transit use.  It's simply expensive and difficult to provide comprehensive public transit to these types of areas, not to mention inconvenient for users.  Improving the popularity of more conventional urban development patterns (not even high-rises, but single-family homes on smaller lots, rowhouses, mixed-use apartments, etc) requires some acceptance of public transit, because it isn't as practical to provide the road capacity for every resident to move via single-occupancy passenger car.

I hope this doesn't come off as one of the pointless "urban vs suburban" flame wars.  I see the Metro circulator as an experience for positive interaction with public transit for those perhaps unfamiliar with it.  It might even improve his/her opinion of living in a city neighborhood where public transit is practical and convenient.

[Seth]

Fans hit home run in traffic-congestion game by packing buses

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110622/CWS/706229780

Thousands of College World Series fans have been taking buses or shuttles to this year’s games, making driving and parking downtown much easier.

“It’s been fantastic,” said Todd Pfitzer, the City of Omaha’s traffic engineer. “The circulator has been hugely popular. They’re packed. We never thought they’d be utilized to that level.”

They even have a component of BRT:

Omaha police have helped keep the circulator buses moving freely, Simon said, noting that officers will hold up traffic at green lights so that buses can get through.

[HuskerDave]

People I work with have parked at Midtown Crossing and rode their shuttle to the CWS as well.  I even overheard suburbanites from 180th-and-something recommending it to others.

These are great opportunities to correct the misconceptions about mass transit.

Seth, I know what you're saying; but you're mistaken if you think "suburbanites" would ride the bus more, if only they knew how great it was... Cars are still the best way to get around from point to point, until some event like the CWS makes it more convenient to park and ride in a large group.  We don't ride the bus because we don't want to ride the bus, not because we just haven't been enlightened.

I think it's a little more complex than you describe.  I agree that typical low-density, segregated-use suburban development is not attractive for public transit use.  It's simply expensive and difficult to provide comprehensive public transit to these types of areas, not to mention inconvenient for users.  Improving the popularity of more conventional urban development patterns (not even high-rises, but single-family homes on smaller lots, rowhouses, mixed-use apartments, etc) requires some acceptance of public transit, because it isn't as practical to provide the road capacity for every resident to move via single-occupancy passenger car.

I hope this doesn't come off as one of the pointless "urban vs suburban" flame wars.  I see the Metro circulator as an experience for positive interaction with public transit for those perhaps unfamiliar with it.  It might even improve his/her opinion of living in a city neighborhood where public transit is practical and convenient.

Ok...

we're good.  :)