Omaha Alternatives Analysis

[iamjacobm]

BRT is actually a very viable option, if executed properly. It has been very successful in Curitiba, Brazil and Bogota, Colombia. Yes, a streetcar would make a lasting impression, but BRT would make a much better impact on the city because it would be much less costly on a per-mile basis, thus allowing it to serve way more areas of the city. Want a streetcar out to, say, Crossroads or Westroads? Then be ready to pay in the billions, easy. But a BRT? Very doable.

Based on current costs nationwide a 5 mile line from Downtown to Crossroads would probably be more around the $200 million price tag, not in the billions.

[Garrett]

Ahhhhhhhh the pains of hyperbole and not googling things before I say them. I'll be giving a more well thought out post tomorrow. Until then, sleep.

[almighty_tuna]

Yeah, definitely not in the billions. The current Eagle P3 project in Denver is $2.2B for 32 MILES of light rail. Makes a 2-3mi streetcar loop look like child's play.

[bigredmed]

BRT is actually a very viable option, if executed properly. It has been very successful in Curitiba, Brazil and Bogota, Colombia. Yes, a streetcar would make a lasting impression, but BRT would make a much better impact on the city because it would be much less costly on a per-mile basis, thus allowing it to serve way more areas of the city. Want a streetcar out to, say, Crossroads or Westroads? Then be ready to pay in the billions, easy. But a BRT? Very doable.

Based on current costs nationwide a 5 mile line from Downtown to Crossroads would probably be more around the $200 million price tag, not in the billions.

For a city with budget issues, it would still be more bang for the buck to get Metro off it's dime and build a system of express bus routes.

[RNcyanide]

Whatever it takes for us to stop wasting money on these repetitive studies. As stated before, they really aren't telling us anything we don't already know and haven't told any other city. It's stupid that we keep spending money on this.

[Garrett]

Whatever it takes for us to stop wasting money on these repetitive studies. As stated before, they really aren't telling us anything we don't already know and haven't told any other city. It's stupid that we keep spending money on this.

Maybe we should study how much many we could save but not doing studies.

[RNcyanide]

Whatever it takes for us to stop wasting money on these repetitive studies. As stated before, they really aren't telling us anything we don't already know and haven't told any other city. It's stupid that we keep spending money on this.

Maybe we should study how much many we could save but not doing studies.

Is it sad that I can totally see Omaha doing just that?

[Seth]

For a city with budget issues, it would still be more bang for the buck to get Metro off it's dime and build a system of express bus routes.

Agreed.  Even a KC-style rebranding (basically faking mixed-traffic buses to look like BRT) would be an improvement.

[iamjacobm]

BRT is actually a very viable option, if executed properly. It has been very successful in Curitiba, Brazil and Bogota, Colombia. Yes, a streetcar would make a lasting impression, but BRT would make a much better impact on the city because it would be much less costly on a per-mile basis, thus allowing it to serve way more areas of the city. Want a streetcar out to, say, Crossroads or Westroads? Then be ready to pay in the billions, easy. But a BRT? Very doable.

Based on current costs nationwide a 5 mile line from Downtown to Crossroads would probably be more around the $200 million price tag, not in the billions.

For a city with budget issues, it would still be more bang for the buck to get Metro off it's dime and build a system of express bus routes.

I don't see anyway a streetcar would happen without a large check from the federal level.  Even BRT will probably take a federal grant to make it a viable option.  One thing I think a streetcar would be able to do that BRT wouldn't is pull in a pretty nice number of private donations.  Anyone from companies that would benefit from the line to people wanting their name on a certain station could throw around some major cash, Omaha has a pretty good history of that.

[Garrett]

Now then, time for BRT vs. Streetcar comparisons!

Let's say Omaha has a budget of $500 million to overhaul the entire transit system.

So, say Omaha wanted a comprehensive streetcar system. There would be a loop of sorts in the downtown area. I personally used the definition of 10th, Harney, 20th, and Cuming, about 3 miles total. Next, we would want a line up to the airport, another 4 miles including the loop around back toward the city. Then, another 3 miles for a Zoo branch, including a loop around. Finally, 4.5 miles out to Crossroads. Total, this amounts to 14.5 miles of track, and costs on a per mile basis, according the Minneapolis Post in 2011, are from $20 million to $40 million. So, in total, this system, which would connect some of the most important cultural and economic components of Omaha, would amount to somewhere between $290 and $580 million, which is definitely not bad at all. However, this system also leaves out a vast majority of the city, and connecting more would naturally come at a ballooning cost. Furthermore, streetcars usually have a very maximum speed of 40 mph,

BRT on the other hand? It costs around $2 to $5 million per mile, again according to the Minneapolis Post. So, for effectively the exact same type of service, the cost would be from $29 to $72.5 million. With that, we could have routes to Florence, Papillion-La Vista, Village Pointe and Elkhorn, and Bellevue and Offutt, and still probably spend less on the main skeleton of the system. Furthermore, using those type of smaller buses the DundeeOmaha talked about, we could have smaller feeder routes in these local areas that help support the main lines. But then we have a few big problems here, namely, public perception. No matter how shiny it is, a bus would still be a bus, which sucks in the context of North America. Also, the fact that they are less visible, due to a lack of very obvious rails, typically decreases public awareness.

And then there is light rail, which thrown into this mix makes for a very confusing comparison.

Now, I think the best option is a mix of all of the option we have available. Use streetcars mostly in downtown/midtown, light rail out to the inner ring, say Florence, Southroads and Westroads, and the from there, BRT.

[Garrett]

Here are some readings to consider:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon ... treetcars/

http://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2011/ ... ntal-needs

http://www.urbanreviewstl.com/2013/07/w ... streetcar/

[Dundeemaha]

I don't see anyway a streetcar would happen without a large check from the federal level.  Even BRT will probably take a federal grant to make it a viable option.  One thing I think a streetcar would be able to do that BRT wouldn't is pull in a pretty nice number of private donations.  Anyone from companies that would benefit from the line to people wanting their name on a certain station could throw around some major cash, Omaha has a pretty good history of that.

A couple things to note about an alternatives analysis is that it is a required step to bid for the kind of federal grants you're talking about. Also, it is exclusively focused on the target area and not on the city as a whole.

A huge problem with BRT is that Omaha would implement a half hearted BRT, without dedicated lanes, without prepay stations, etc. and then try to call nicer buses BRT.

[Busguy2010]

Where people get it wrong is when they think one mode is meant to do it all.  Obviously that doesn't work, with Metro being case in point.  When it is suggested that a streetcar will be built in midtown it is never meant to be interpreted as a mode that will be useful for commuters (However if you live in Midtown, it most certainly is).  Streetcars are inherently exclusive of suburban environments.  And that's where the BRT, Light Rail and fixed and express bus routes come in.

To me it's clear that in order for any of those other things to work well and be desirable for the entire population, you have to build up a desirable riding community and build up the density of the common endpoint of all these modes.  The perfect way to accomplish that is to build a starter streetcar route, and properly understand the scope of all the different modes.

[iamjacobm]

Where people get it wrong is when they think one mode is meant to do it all.  Obviously that doesn't work, with Metro being case in point.  When it is suggested that a streetcar will be built in midtown it is never meant to be interpreted as a mode that will be useful for commuters (However if you live in Midtown, it most certainly is).  Streetcars are inherently exclusive of suburban environments.  And that's where the BRT, Light Rail and fixed and express bus routes come in.

To me it's clear that in order for any of those other things to work well and be desirable for the entire population, you have to build up a desirable riding community and build up the density of the common endpoint of all these modes.  The perfect way to accomplish that is to build a starter streetcar route, and properly understand the scope of all the different modes.

Good points.  With BRT from the further suburban areas we would need a very efficient and reliable core transit system to move people to their last destinations.  In theory you would take your BRT from Suburb X to the transit center of your need(UNMC, Midtown, Downtown, Crossroads ect.) and have to make no or only one transfer to finish your trip.  Right now unless you are on some very specific bus lines you are transferring a lot which is a huge detriment to attracting people that don't need to use public transit, but would if it were easier to use.

[iamjacobm]

For the record I am not sold one way or the other.  I know we need to make some improved investments, I want to read the findings from this report to help inform a more firm stance in the next few months.

[Garrett]

Another article for reading. Yay information!

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2011 ... -and-rail/

[Omababe]

4. A big part of it is branding, but branding and perception matter, as I'll illustrate below:

What People Picture When you say "Bus"

This whole image (about the bus) thing is one of the first big surprises I remember upon moving to Omaha.

When and where I grew up, it was socially acceptable to ride the bus. Everybody rode them and they went about everywhere. Every major street had a bus. They filled in the gaps between the subway and el lines very nicely.

I also vaguely remember the trolley bus lines, or the trackless trolleys. They ran on overhead wires but they had tires like a bus and did not have rails. These disappeared when I was quite young but I remember seeing them in ElLay as late as the mid 1960s. I don't know if they are still around.

In Omaha, however, it was like "You take the bus? What's wrong with you?"

I think it's a vicious cycle. Nobody rides the bus, so there are fewer lines and the service is infrequent. Therefore nobody rides the bus.

Oh well ...

[Seth]

In Omaha, however, it was like "You take the bus? What's wrong with you?"

I think it's a vicious cycle. Nobody rides the bus, so there are fewer lines and the service is infrequent. Therefore nobody rides the bus.

Oh well ...

I do agree. The city where I attended university (Urbana-Champaign, IL) has a superb bus system, even outside the university areas. In addition to students, quite a few middle-class citizens ride it, and the transportation district has done a good job of maintaining a good image and reputation, as well as being tough on ner-do-wells.

Unfortunately, even though I'm a big supporter of mass transit, the first image that comes to mind of "Omaha Bus" is 16th st crowded with shady characters following you around aggressively demanding money.  Sadly, a transit node that should be invigorating that corridor is poisoning it.

[Seth]

BTW, um genuinely impressed with the calm discussion and presentation of contrasting ideas in this thread. I definitely learn from it and gladly admit that my opinions evolve as a result.

[iamjacobm]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20131127/N ... sit-future

The main options are:

>> Bus rapid transit from downtown to 72nd and Dodge Streets to Crossroads Mall by way of Dodge and Douglas Streets.

>> Bus rapid transit from downtown to 72nd and Dodge Streets to Crossroads Mall by way of Farnam and Harney Streets.

>> Modern streetcar from downtown to the University of Nebraska Medical Center by way of Farnam and Harney Streets.

A fourth option, which will be discussed with the other ideas at a public meeting Tuesday, would combine bus rapid transit and modern street car. The plan would place street cars in the downtown core and bus rapid transit farther west.

[RNcyanide]

Great. Now that we've figured that out, let's ignore this study and do another one in 2 years.

[bigredmed]

BTW, um genuinely impressed with the calm discussion and presentation of contrasting ideas in this thread. I definitely learn from it and gladly admit that my opinions evolve as a result.

Agreed.

I think that buses that go from crappy scary bus stop to the Crossroads, then to the Westroads, where they turn around and repeat the route backwards are a big driver of the negative image of bus transportation in Omaha.

When I was a kid, we lived in the Holy Name area and we had a bus that ran on Bedford.  The bus would connect to other buses that went downtown and stopped at the stores (Brandeis, etc, and yes I just dated myself.)   The buses were heavily used by all sorts of people because they were useful, the stops were not bum-free, but the cops and the adult men were more than happy to scare off the bums away from my mom and my siblings.   Basically, you might see one, but you were never in a position to be scared (and my mother would travel that way with my baby sister and a stroller.)

If buses in Omaha were pleasant, and reasonably fast (approximating car travel + 15-20 min), and they were not allowed to get gang infested or bum infested, you would see a lot of people use them.  Consider the LaVista express route article in the OWH.  When the route got cleaned of a bunch of under used stops on the way, it shaved 30 minutes off the transit time.  The time between Tara Plaza and 16th and Douglas was 20 min.  You can't drive there in a safe manner in much less time.  If I could drop a car there and know it was safe, or get a circulating bus that would reliably get me to the Express stop in plenty of time to buy a ticket and get on the bus, I would use it on days when I am in one place all day (like today.)

Most people given the choice, would do the same.

Even in Omaha.

What is likely to kill it, is that Metro can't bring itself to reduce the number of stops on the east side of Omaha.  Refer back to the article, the stops were not in Ralston or central Omaha, but in east Omaha and Dundee.  By cutting the stops down to three in the burbs and two in the city, the route got very fast and from a practical standpoint, a pretty sweet deal.  Consider the Leavenworth/Pacific route that has been mentioned here in many forms.  The current Metro has 6 stops between UNO's sign on Pacific and Leavenworth.  It has roughly the same number from 60th and Leavenworth to Saddlecreek.   At some point, you have to look at the 60th street stretch and ask if 4 stops are really necessary on that street.  You clean up the routes, and get efficiency from start of route to end of route as your goal for the express buses, and timeliness of connections being the goal for the connector buses, and you will get riders.

[iamjacobm]

PDF of the final plans being presented at the meeting.

http://content.mindmixer.com/Live/Proje ... 2332700000

[Garrett]

I'm feeling the combined alternative.

[bigredmed]

I'm feeling the combined alternative.

I got to go with none of the above unless there is working plans to extend effective circulators to the Westroads from even just the Burke area.  I also doubt effectiveness of the center city nodes in these plans.

Consider the area in Aksarben or the Holy Cross area.  They are proximate to this served area, but far enough that without lots of well timed and coordinated buses to get people to the hubs, you won't get riders from that area.  This is great for Dundee, but sucks for Benson, Aksarben, or the Westside areas.  Hard to attract new riders when they don't see a service route that gets them from their area to their work area.

How do any of these change the fact that there essentially is no bus service west of 114th?  Or that even with the express bus in Millard that goes by a few times a day, it would still take 2-3 hours one way to get to Benson from 120th and L?

Really think that the way to go here is to gang up buses and run them in express routes along the main arteries.  Cheaper, simpler, and lots more flexible.

[Dundeemaha]

I'm feeling the combined alternative.

I got to go with none of the above unless there is working plans to extend effective circulators to the Westroads from even just the Burke area.  I also doubt effectiveness of the center city nodes in these plans.

Consider the area in Aksarben or the Holy Cross area.  They are proximate to this served area, but far enough that without lots of well timed and coordinated buses to get people to the hubs, you won't get riders from that area.  This is great for Dundee, but sucks for Benson, Aksarben, or the Westside areas.  Hard to attract new riders when they don't see a service route that gets them from their area to their work area.

How do any of these change the fact that there essentially is no bus service west of 114th?  Or that even with the express bus in Millard that goes by a few times a day, it would still take 2-3 hours one way to get to Benson from 120th and L?

Really think that the way to go here is to gang up buses and run them in express routes along the main arteries.  Cheaper, simpler, and lots more flexible.

Some of the limitations of the Alternatives Analysis (which are part of the federal grant requirements) are that they focus on a specific corridor. Yes, this study completely neglects the miserable state of our bus routes, however ideally this could get a major transit improvement on this primary thoroughfare. Then OMetro can revamp its routes to facilitate access to this route or for everyone!

[iamjacobm]

We aren't going to get a perfect modern transit system in one fell swoop.  You have to start somewhere and it makes perfect sense to start with a good urban transit system and rework other routes to feed it.  Get the Crossroads/Downtown corridor established then start branching to Benson, A/V, Westroads and North and South O.  We are putting in the backbone for decades of work ahead with this project.

[Busguy2010]

I strongly agree with the layout and stop locations of the streetcar route.  Riding on Harney you have a direct stop for the Old Market and it's great that they extended it to 16th street along Webster so people at Creighton could easily utilize it to get around Downtown.

Ultimately I say build that streetcar route and only the streetcar now.  Build the streetcar now and the BRT will naturally follow, and both will be better than if we went to have both right now.

[Garrett]

Did anyone go?

Also:

http://www.omaha.com/article/20131203/N ... s-laid-out

» Bus rapid transit from downtown to 72nd and Dodge Streets and Crossroads Mall, then to Westroads Mall, by way of Dodge and Douglas Streets.

Capacity would be 90 people and three bicycles, serving about 1,200 new riders per day. The estimated capital cost is $40 million, plus an estimated $3 million per year to operate.

» Bus rapid transit from downtown to the same destinations, by way of Farnam and Harney Streets, connecting with Dodge Street at Saddle Creek Road.

Capacity would be 90 people and three bikes, serving about 1,400 new riders per day. The estimated cost is $40 million, plus an estimated $3 million per year to operate.

» A modern streetcar from downtown to the University of Nebraska Medical Center by way of Farnam and Harney Streets.

Capacity would be 160 people and six bicycles, serving 1,400 new riders per day. The estimated cost is $140 million, plus an estimated $7 million per year to operate.

All routes would begin in north downtown, around TD Ameritrade Park and the CenturyLink Center Omaha.

» A fourth possible option would combine bus rapid transit and streetcars. Streetcars would go into the downtown core, while bus rapid transit would overlap in the downtown area and stretch farther west.

Capacity for this combined option would be 250 people and nine bikes. The number of riders per day was still being determined. The estimated capital cost is $140 million, plus $7 million per year to operate.

It goes on to say whichever option is adopted would need further study. Yayy.....

[S33]

As long as Omaha is willing to pay for studies, they will recommend studies. Business is good for these consultants.

[RNcyanide]

|expletive| studies. Let's quit throwing money at these people and do something cool with it.

[Dundeemaha]

I know that it's popular to bash studies on here because there were so many useless ones in the past. However, this study is required for federal grants as well as the follow up environmental impact study. With these federal grants you need to get public input, thus the public meetings. This is *by far* the closest Omaha has come to being serious about a streetcar or brt.

I didn't make it to the meeting but http://omahaalternativesanalysis.org/resources/ has some of the stuff from it up:

Display Boards: http://omahaalternativesanalysis.org/do ... 20313a.pdf
Handout: http://omahaalternativesanalysis.org/do ... 120313.pdf

[Linkin5]

I know that it's popular to bash studies on here because there were so many useless ones in the past. However, this study is required for federal grants as well as the follow up environmental impact study. With these federal grants you need to get public input, thus the public meetings. This is *by far* the closest Omaha has come to being serious about a streetcar or brt.

I didn't make it to the meeting but http://omahaalternativesanalysis.org/resources/ has some of the stuff from it up:

Display Boards: http://omahaalternativesanalysis.org/do ... 20313a.pdf
Handout: http://omahaalternativesanalysis.org/do ... 120313.pdf

That video they have on the site is AMAZING!

[iamjacobm]

I know that it's popular to bash studies on here because there were so many useless ones in the past. However, this study is required for federal grants as well as the follow up environmental impact study. With these federal grants you need to get public input, thus the public meetings. This is *by far* the closest Omaha has come to being serious about a streetcar or brt.

I didn't make it to the meeting but http://omahaalternativesanalysis.org/resources/ has some of the stuff from it up:

Display Boards: http://omahaalternativesanalysis.org/do ... 20313a.pdf
Handout: http://omahaalternativesanalysis.org/do ... 120313.pdf

The biggest argument for streetcars is the projected development slide.

[Coyote]

[wmp]http://necoyote.ipower.com/video/COTA001.wmv[/wmp]

[ShawJ]

I went last night. The first 20ish minutes let people walk around and view all of the boards on display. After that they had a 30 minute presentation followed by a one-on-one session where you could ask officials questions. Unfortunately I didn't have time to stick around for the one-on-one portion.

I know it's a rough estimate, but the projected cost of the initial street car line surprised me. I figured it would be over $140 million (although, that's still a large chunk of change). I also wonder how likely it is for them to get funding for either alternative without raising taxes like they hope/want to do.

[Dundeemaha]

They just posted the video of the presentation:

[GetUrban]

I know that it's popular to bash studies on here because there were so many useless ones in the past. However, this study is required for federal grants as well as the follow up environmental impact study. With these federal grants you need to get public input, thus the public meetings. This is *by far* the closest Omaha has come to being serious about a streetcar or brt.

Agreed. As long as the new study builds on the work done in past studies, it is just part of the evolution of the design process which gets us closer to the goal of improving mass transit. From what I've seen of this latest study, it's the most encouraging progress made so far toward actual implementation.

I haven't read all of the info yet, but it seems to me they could start by promoting BRT, or some other form of mass transit, as a great way for people to get to the major entertainment venues downtown such as the CLINK or TD Ameritrade, Old Market, etc. and avoiding the hassle of parking their own vehicle. On the other hand, in Omaha, the traffic and parking situation is really not bad at all compared to other major metro areas. Using mass transit has to become less of a hassle  or less expensive than driving a car before it will really catch on in Omaha. Once people see it as an easier, less expensive alternative, it will catch-on as an alternative to commuting by car. Sorry if it sounds like I'm stating the obvious.  :yes:

[cdub]

This AA is the first study that really mattered.  Everything else was just wishing.  Unfortunately, the new transportation bill doesnt even require the AA anymore, but it was already underway.  The next 'study' really gets things going and is required.  This is what progress looks like in the federal system!

[S33]

This AA is the first study that really mattered.  Everything else was just wishing.  Unfortunately, the new transportation bill doesnt even require the AA anymore, but it was already underway.  The next 'study' really gets things going and is required.  This is what progress looks like in the federal system!

AA? What kind of junkies we got heading these studies?