Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Trains, Planes, and Automobiles (and Streetcars!).

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GetUrban
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby GetUrban » Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:32 pm

I don't think most people in Omaha have been paying attention enough to know this is coming down the pike. They're gonna sheet when they realize this will effect automobile traffic on Dodge. I wish BRT luck though!
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby NeGoofyfoot » Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:56 pm

City needs to develop an early and great marketing strategy other than cool looking bus stations, hopefully provide park and ride lots for our suburban friends. Maybe provide free ridership for a pre-determined amount of time. They really get people involved and excited about this! This is an opportunity to re-boot the way this city looks at transportation.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby MTO » Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:42 am

Why couldn't Metro start running articulated buses down Dodge now? They don't have to have super sized stop nor do they need extra paint on the streets to work. It would seam to easier to phase the new system in, kinda usurp the contra-populous. I've been noticing more "six figure" commuters using the metro through Fairacres and Dundee not so much in the Goldciast but the winds of change are here.
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U R my Helix
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby U R my Helix » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:08 pm

Once upon a time we were supposed to have flying cars so we would not need buses. Alas it never panned out.
So we continue to think about transportation in ways we have become accustomed to.
Trains and busses are expensive to maintain and operate.

Perhaps we need a sky cab system. Think trolleys and zip lines with clean, fast pods that take you to your destination without even touching the ground until you are within a few blocks of your destination.

Major East to west route would run on:
State St., Fort St., Maple., Blondo, Dodge, Pacific, Center, L st., and Harrison.

North south routes would be 168th, 144th,, 108th, 90th/84th, 72nd, 50th , 20th and 13th

Now after you stop laughing think about how to pay for it. The infrastructure could be supported by our cable, and phone providers. They all have various routes along these lines to maintain anyhow. Incorporate them into the system. Advertising on the exterior and interior of various cars would also be collected. A video display in the car can run ads to the captive audience.

The repeating loop would mean no one has to think about when the next car will be past and there could be a reduced speed nighttime rotation. You are above the snow, out of the rain and don’t’ freeze your toes off waiting for the next bus.

It could be a very cool system and city’s everywhere would say why didn’t we do that.
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PotatoeEatsFish
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby PotatoeEatsFish » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:37 pm

I don't think it would move fast enough to be used a lot. Plus even if the companies paid for the poles what about the stations? Those would be VERY expensive.
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby RNcyanide » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:39 pm

It would be less problematic for traffic...
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby PotatoeEatsFish » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:41 pm

The stations would be elevated that would mean elevators and escalators, both are expensive. Home owners wouldn't like it too because they would view it as an eyesore.
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby RNcyanide » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:54 pm

I guess they would try to string them along commercial or industrial areas.
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby U R my Helix » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:34 pm

There is no reason it could not come to ground level to load or unload. No elevator or escalator needed. Station cost is basically a turnstile and a key card reader. The rest of the station is to keep fools out of the loading zone. What does a city bus driver earn annually in pay and pensions? I think there would be a long term return. Up hill grades may be slower but down hill can be fast. No bus on the main line belching black smoke. The value of being on the line will increase the value of the home / business and off set any view issue.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Garrett » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:42 am

Oh, a personal rapid transit system? I believe Morgantown, West Virginia, home to their State University, has one. Very unique and situational things though.
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby PotatoeEatsFish » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:27 am

Very odd city to have a rapid transit line but very cool! I think Omaha would need something bigger than that. Grand Island could use something like that or Fremont.
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Garrett
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Garrett » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:31 am

PotatoeEatsFish wrote:Very odd city to have a rapid transit line but very cool! I think Omaha would need something bigger than that. Grand Island could use something like that or Fremont.

It's probably more oriented to a college town environment, so like one could work in Lincoln, or around UNO.
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Coyote » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:42 pm

Image

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby iamjacobm » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:21 pm

The article doesn't give a lot of detail, but it sounds like parking minimums will be an important factor here. Anything that helps to remove mandated parking minimums I am all for.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby PotatoeEatsFish » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:15 pm

Or they have something big in mind but don't want to give it up.
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby RNcyanide » Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:58 pm

http://www.hdrinc.com/portfolio/omaha-u ... id-transit

I don't know if this has been posted yet.
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Busguy2010 » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:37 pm

I think it is best to keep the BRT and Streetcar separate from each other or they would slow each other down. Since the plan is to make a contraflow lane on Dodge for the BRT and one on Farnam for the Streetcar I do wonder if the Streetcar will actually happen. And since the original plan, the BRT has changed and won't serve CLink or the ballpark. That probably had to do with keeping the travel time to less than 30 minutes.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby ILexpat » Fri May 27, 2016 6:36 pm

I believe the chinese have solved the problem. Omaha should just get one of these!

Image


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/world/asia/china-elevated-bus.html?_r=0

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby skinzfan23 » Fri May 27, 2016 8:34 pm

Still don't understand how that works if cars decide to change lanes.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Athomsfere » Mon May 30, 2016 7:15 pm

skinzfan23 wrote:Still don't understand how that works if cars decide to change lanes.


The idea appears to be: They don't change lanes while the train is there.

I expect this to be a failure, honestly. I think cars are going to hit the legs ALL the time and drivers will freak out when they are suddenly in or out of a tunnel. It's an awesome idea, I just think people will screw it up.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby MTO » Mon May 30, 2016 8:09 pm

Plus it's cramped it looks like only cars will fit under it.
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Dundeemaha » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:31 am

BRT Open House at FNB tower over lunch, UNO Durham Center late afternoon on June 15:
https://www.facebook.com/events/1624556227834405/

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby iamjacobm » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:57 pm

Wish I would have had time to go! They brought in a bus as an example.

Image

Materials shown.
http://www.ometro.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Metro_BRT_Boards_web.pdf

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Stargazer » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:04 pm

I like the improvements to the station designs

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Coyote » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:12 pm

Stargazer wrote:I like the improvements to the station designs



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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby HR Paperstacks » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:36 pm

iamjacobm wrote:Wish I would have had time to go! They brought in a bus as an example.

Image

Materials shown.
http://www.ometro.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Metro_BRT_Boards_web.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otOARxAOp2g

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby MTO » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:55 pm

I agree with you Stargayzer but you know they'll change four times by the time they build any.
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby choke » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:55 pm

So how is traffic going to move faster on Dodge Street with BRT if the buses don't have a dedicated lane? Your gonna have these mega buses clogging up traffic lanes.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Busguy2010 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:56 pm

The only way it'll be faster is by stopping fewer times. Like I said in the HDR thread, it will be very underwhelming as a faster option.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Dundeemaha » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:28 pm

On the scale of BRT implementations this is the least you can do and try to get away with calling it BRT, but still there are these speedups compared to standard buses:

1. Pre-pay at the stop (no line to get on to pay)
2. Multi-door boarding
3. Level boarding
4. Bikes on board instead of in front
5. Westbound dedicated lane from 10th to 31st
6. Potentially Queue Jumps at 90th and/or 72nd Street
7. Less frequent stops


Standard buses would get a pretty good speed up from just starting to move once everyone is on board instead of waiting for everyone to be seated.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Busguy2010 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:11 pm

Dundeemaha wrote:On the scale of BRT implementations this is the least you can do and try to get away with calling it BRT, but still there are these speedups compared to standard buses:

1. Pre-pay at the stop (no line to get on to pay)
2. Multi-door boarding
3. Level boarding
4. Bikes on board instead of in front
5. Westbound dedicated lane from 10th to 31st
6. Potentially Queue Jumps at 90th and/or 72nd Street
7. Less frequent stops


Standard buses would get a pretty good speed up from just starting to move once everyone is on board instead of waiting for everyone to be seated.


Good points. Our BRT will be bare bones. I think as more people use the BRT I could see the outer lanes on Dodge between 30th and 69th become alternating bus/car lanes. Make the eastbound curb lane bus and right turn only in the morning, and the westbound curb lane bus and right turn only in the evening. Until that happens I will consider this bus not BRT, but enhanced bus.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Busguy2010 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:57 pm

iamjacobm wrote:Wish I would have had time to go! They brought in a bus as an example.

Image

Materials shown.
http://www.ometro.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Metro_BRT_Boards_web.pdf


Another thing, the Xcelsior pictured above is just a regular old articulated bus. The bus they make specifically for BRT looks bigger and is configured more like a light rail vehicle.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Busguy2010 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:33 pm

With BRT coming to dodge street this decade, I've been thinking a lot more about possible light rail routes. I visited Denver a few times and really got a good idea of how much space tracks really take up, and I don't think Dodge street would be the right place for one anymore. I came out with that Dodge street light rail map, and Bellevue light rail map a few years back and I have since revised it to exclude dodge street and 13th street as alignments. This new map will probably remind you of Denver's system. Maybe this would be the way to go? Maybe not? What are your thoughts?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=11XaRj ... sp=sharing

And allow me to add that I only really see the Bellevue line as the one line that would ever have a slim chance of being built. I find this due to the fact that it would take people between Offutt and Eppley, with stops in Downtown and at MCC/South Omaha. And for the fact it would be almost completely aligned next to existing railroad tracks, and Fort Crook Road and Abbott Dr. are relatively wide and not flanked by dense development. As far as cost, this is the one that could end up being semi-reasonable.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby NEDodger » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:31 pm

Light rail? Maybe something to think about once we approach 2.5 million in the metro.

BRT makes more sense in every way.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Busguy2010 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:25 am

NEDodger wrote:Light rail? Maybe something to think about once we approach 2.5 million in the metro.

BRT makes more sense in every way.


Do you think BRT could cover the entire metro? Should it?

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby NEDodger » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:59 am

Busguy2010 wrote:
NEDodger wrote:Light rail? Maybe something to think about once we approach 2.5 million in the metro.

BRT makes more sense in every way.


Do you think BRT could cover the entire metro? Should it?



No. I would do BRT along Dodge and along 72nd Street, between Sorensen Parkway and Highway 370.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby GetUrban » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:58 am

NEDodger wrote:
Busguy2010 wrote:
NEDodger wrote:Light rail? Maybe something to think about once we approach 2.5 million in the metro.

BRT makes more sense in every way.


Do you think BRT could cover the entire metro? Should it?



No. I would do BRT along Dodge and along 72nd Street, between Sorensen Parkway and Highway 370.


I't should extend north to a new Park & Ride near N72nd & I-680. That way people could get there easier from I-680 EB & WB and far N72nd. Sorenson Park Plaza would make a good hub though, I agree.
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Uffda » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:09 am

GetUrban wrote:
NEDodger wrote:
Busguy2010 wrote:
NEDodger wrote:Light rail? Maybe something to think about once we approach 2.5 million in the metro.

BRT makes more sense in every way.


Do you think BRT could cover the entire metro? Should it?



No. I would do BRT along Dodge and along 72nd Street, between Sorensen Parkway and Highway 370.


I't should extend north to a new Park & Ride near N72nd & I-680. That way people could get there easier from I-680 EB & WB and far N72nd. Sorenson Park Plaza would make a good hub though, I agree.



There is enough parking up on Sorensen Parkway and catch people heading downtown or south from the NW part of town.

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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby choke » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:11 pm

Omaha already had BRT at one time:
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Re: Omaha Alternatives Analysis

Postby Busguy2010 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:59 am

I saw a picture of one of these buses not all that long ago. They weren't Bus Rapid Transit, just longer buses because the ridership justified them. There are a loads of these articulated buses operating regular bus routes in LA, Chicago, and NYC today. Cool to see Omaha ever had enough ridership to need these. When these buses were running, ridership was twice what is is today and operating in half the coverage area. Amazing the polar shift this city has gone through. Were just barely starting to scratch our way back.


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