Omaha Beltway Discussion

[papiostud]

Portland has the best light rail for the city it's size. Charlotte just started one. The smallest city would hafta been Edmonton, Canada I believe? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Big E]

<<<<If you look at right now how long it takes to get to the interstate to go downtwon from Elkhorn, you see the need.>>>>

I thought they didn't want anything to do with Omaha? ;)

But seriously... That will be a $billion+ project by the time it rolls around. Why do we keep pumping money into a "solution" that just continues to perpetuate the problem?

-Big E

[DMRyan]

Salt Lake City and Buffalo are two cities that aren't all that much bigger than Omaha and that have light rail.

We need more than just light rail... streetcars, BRT lines, commuter rail, a more effective bus system. Basically, less of a dependance on the automobile is what I am talking about. Houston has two loops and everything that gets developed around them is |expletive|. What happens if/when they build this beltway and then gas goes up to $10 a gallon since there is very little of it remaining? Nobody is going to want to drive anywhere because of the high costs of getting around. Then we will have a million of miles of unused asphalt and concrete laying around for no good reason. I would rather spend the heaps of money on public works projects like libraries, courthouses, parks, etc than blowing it on a project that we don't/won't need in the future.

And we still don't have a traffic problem to justify it. You can get anywhere in the city in a half hour very easily with time to spare. 10-15 years down the road we won't need this thing either.

I'm all aboard the liberal bus here, I think this is overreacting. Sure petroleum is a fossil fuel that isn't renewable, but there's a much larger supply left on earth than most may think. Haven't there been studies that have still shown that it is economically less expensive and uses less energy to continue to produce petroleum than it is with most renewable fuels such as ethanol? There is still the negative environmental impact that petroleum produces, but since when has America blazed the trail with environemntal policies? We care more about the price of gas, not the long term impact, as unfortunate as that may be. As a country, we just need to invest much more in alternative fuels and other modes of transportation to ween us almost strictly off of oil. This isn't something that will happen overnight, it'll take decades to develop a reliable system of alternative fuels that are well entrenched, well researched, and subsidized by government like oil currently is.

$10 a gallon for gas? We'll be at war with Syria and Iran by then.

[Calibraskan]

Rail transport might be a great idea for some segments, but it won't fill the future (in fact OVERDUE) need for an expanded freeway system ......Along the lines of "Greg S's" comments, routes to/from far-west Omaha to MANY areas (Lincoln, Bellevue, Springfield) seem to be missing segments of freeway. No feasible Light Rail system will take the place of an outer freeway loop/ beltway.....and the planning for it (and Light Rail) should have taken place 20 years ago!!

[nativeomahan]

I think the idea of BEGINING the plan for another loop is right on. I only wish the city fathers of the 60's & 70's would have had the cajones to build the west expressway.

Cajones...or foresight. Either way, they didn't have it. Now it is almost too late. Land west of Omaha is being eaten up by the day. Ideally the freeway would have stretched north-sout at about 180th Street. Too late now...it will have to go west of the Elkhorn River.

[eomaha]

As one of the lay people quoted in the article, I would think large tracts of south Highway 6 and 370 could be used to start off a new beltway with bypasses around Gretna, Elkhorn, etc. I'm all for planning ahead and acquiring land, but let's put off it's implementation as long as possible so as to minimize the inevitable continuation of sprawl.

[Will]

Shouldn't this thing go from blair to fremont south to lincoln and west to neb city. for the most part we have a freeway to freemont, I 29 to blair and neb city (on the wrong side of the river) but I also beleive that hwy 75 also does the same thing just not as fast or non stop. If only one segment of this gets built (or the first part to be built) shoud be I 29 to I80 as a cut off for people going to and from lincoln to KC which would help some of the traffic from the interstate. the next part should be from I80 (iowa side) to I 29. then after that it should be up to the states. IMO

[eomaha]

Driver Connie Allner, on the other hand, favors the beltway idea...

She has been on a beltway while vacationing in Madison, Wis...

This woman sounds like she's from Norfolk or Kearney... not Omaha.

[Zephyr]

I wouldn't call being on a beltway a vacation.

And show me where this alleged beltway is?

[icejammer]

Omahan Paul Brasher said the beltway would be a good solution 25 years down the road, but not now. Brasher drives 25 miles each way from his home northwest of 156th Street and West Maple Road to his job at Offutt Air Force Base.

Hmmmm, and people wonder why their commute ain't the best??? Hello, live in a little closer proximity to work people! (like I'm one to talk nowadays)

The time is now for starting the planning process. Like the guy in my quote says, it'll be a good solution in 25 years, and if you want this in 25 years, now is the time to move forward.

I do have to say though, I'm a little baffled by a few comments on here that seem to indicate no need for this to be on the east side of the river? What gives fellas?

[Asten]

I do have to say though, I'm a little baffled by a few comments on here that seem to indicate no need for this to be on the east side of the river? What gives fellas?

Baffled? Howso? I definitely think the planning should include planning for this, but let's face it, the east side of CB ain't growing like the west side of Omaha. I would think the geography surrounding CB also makes it a bit more difficult to implement (but certainly not impossible).

--Asten

[icejammer]

Baffled? Howso? I definitely think the planning should include planning for this, but let's face it, the east side of CB ain't growing like the west side of Omaha. I would think the geography surrounding CB also makes it a bit more difficult to implement (but certainly not impossible).

--Asten

I'm baffled too! I missed a (vital) line in one post and maybe tried to read between the lines on another, as I skimmed through all the comments.

Lesson learned - don't read fast so early in the morning without massive doses of caffeine. Sorry......

Anyway, yeah, geography plays a big role in CB expanding eastward - as mucked up as people in west O think they have it with roads, it's worse in east CB trying to have a direct road anywhere. The sooner things get rolling on this, the better. It's just too bad MAPA didn't get their act together sooner and they could already be breaking ground on the first segment of a real beltway, with the East Beltway in CB. Now, they're going to have to go further east for the Iowa portion. Oh well, that may be better in the long run anyway....

[nativeomahan]

The most needed portions of any beltway system are to the south, across southern Sarpy County, connecting I-80 to I-29. Portions of this are already in the works! The highway bridge and roadway connecting I-29 from Glenwood to the Kennedy Frwy near LaPlatte are already well into the planning stages. No doubt this will be built to freeway specs. Continuing this east-west road across about Platteview Rd. west past Springfield and connecting to I-80 near the Platte River will allow for much of the I-80 truck traffic to avoid heavily congested I-80 in Omaha proper on their trek east to Iowa.

The time to acquire land is now, before housing subdivisions block the roadway. It will be too expensive and contoversial (NIMBY!) to build then.

[DTO Luv]

My growth side is ok but my hard core urban self doesn't really care to see more growth pushed away from the city. If people in West O don't want to have massive commute times than move to Bellevue or North/north of Omaha. The commutes aren't bad at all and it would keep more growth close to the city.

BUT I don't think anyone nowadays is smarter than they were back then so this will get built and years and years later DTO (the Place) will be dead and we'll wonder why.

[nativeomahan]

My growth side is ok but my hard core urban self doesn't really care to see more growth pushed away from the city. If people in West O don't want to have massive commute times than move to Bellevue or North/north of Omaha. The commutes aren't bad at all and it would keep more growth close to the city.

BUT I don't think anyone nowadays is smarter than they were back then so this will get built and years and years later DTO (the Place) will be dead and we'll wonder why.

I really don't fear this happening. With all the new pizazz being added to downtown Omaha (too many to recount here), there is no turning back. It will always be the cultural and social heart of the city, and maybe the sports center as well. The beltway or call it whatever you will will help reroute through traffic away from the mid-city. Especially the big 18-wheelers. I doubt it will add that much to urban sprawl. West Omaha subdivisions went 7-8 miles past I-680 with no freeway in site.

[DTO Luv]

That was kind of an overstatement earlier. DT will always be the social and cultural heart of the city. But what I see being at stake is it being the business center of the city. If their are more 'convenient' business parks out west along the fringes of Omaha, Sarpy county, and possible 880 (I'll just call it that) than DT could see more and more employers cater to the people who are already complaining about the 'long' drive to DT.

There is way more office space being added on the fringes than in the core. Old Mill and Regency are right at Dodge and 680 and it's convenience gives it a much much lower vacancy rate than DT's. (Just taking Regency's office space and adding it to DT would do away with the DT 22% vacancy rate.) All along West Dodge are new office parks with businesses that could have gone DT but didn't because of the convenience. I think the south freeway in Bellevue will start to resemble west Dodge more. Look at Northrup-Grumann.

DT will still prosper but if the businesses go to more where the people live, then DT's vitiality will start to suffer.

[Ingersoll1978]

Downtown was surpassed years ago by west Omaha as the business center of the metro. There has got to be 100,000 jobs along West Dodge Road and I-680 corridors.

[zedmib]

Denver is getting hybrid gas-electric buses.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005 ... 39844.html
They have a few that run the 16th street mall.

[MTO]

Downtown was surpassed years ago by west Omaha as the business center of the metro. There has got to be 100,000 jobs along West Dodge Road and I-680 corridors.

Pathetic but true.

[eomaha]

Actually those jobs are very evenly distributed from downtown to west Omaha. As said before, it seems to be screaming out for some kind of mass transit line... HERE is a corridor which could generate ridership in the tens of thousands.

Anyway, as of this evening MAPA has approved this several hundred thousand dollar study to further increase our dependence on the single passenger gas combustion automobile.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=163 ... nd=5854423

[Omaha Cowboy]

Actually those jobs are very evenly distributed from downtown to west Omaha.

This is a correct assessment..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[icejammer]

And for you out there curious as to what the Iowa-side alignment might generally follow (that the OWH left out of their story)...

Officials give green light to metro area beltway study

[MTO]

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=1636&u_sid=1492715

[icejammer]

I think that was the same story Jeff linked....

[Brad]

Here is a map I drew and posted on one of the 10 other discussions we had on this subject. Its about time the OWH finally brings up the subject and gets it out in the open!

[UNOstudent]

since someone else threw up their idea of a beltway/freeway system, though i'd do the same.

[img][img]http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/491/omaha2xl.gif[/img]

i have a few additions from brads drawing.

1. extension of the kennedy frwy south
2. a new freeway linking central cass/ southern sarpy county to I80 in a motherload of an interchange (with the beltway also)
3. a new frwy from sw gretna that will run north of ashland, parallel i80 then turn south to form the east beltway for lincoln.
4. probably the least likely, is to turn hwy 92 heading east into a frwy and then have it curve along industrial and then have a huge interchange thing w/ Lst/ I 80/ I 680. and from like 204-I80, it would be similar to a houston frwy with feeder roads on the side for the local businesses.
5. the frwy to fremont and a lil connector to southern fremont that crosses the platte
6. hwy 133 a frwy from 680 and head up north and kind of curve around the western side of blair
7. connecting the northern I29/I680 interchange to fremont (also the ne section of beltway)
8. connect southern I29/I680 to I 80

these are just my crazy ideas....

[icejammer]

A few suggestions along UNOstudent's proposal for the Iowa side...

The connection going east across the river south of Bellevue will hook up with Hwy 34 just west of Glenwood (done deal in my opinion). This portion of Hwy 34 is already 4-lane freeway, so follow that alignment to the east side of Glenwood and then follow northward along the Keg Creek floodplain up to G30 (just slightly east of your line shown). Come across 80 on the north side of Underwood and go mostly due west along existing county road to L34 and then snake west by southwest and connect into 29 near Crescent.

The alignment you show extending 680 west into Nebraska won't fly, with it's proximity to DeSoto Bend, Wilson State Park and Boyer Chute. Rather, I would make Hwy 30 between Mo. Valley and Blair a 4-lane divided freeway and extend on westward to Fremont.

Just for starters....

[Uffda]

Looking at the extension of North Freeway, probably the best thing would be to build the new bridge and hook 16th north up the Exit 1 in Iowa. then bring the 4 lanes up and connect into John Pershing and Storz I cant see it going straight thru Florence to I-680.

[Brad]

State studies Fremont beltway plan

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=1636&u_sid=2051304

The Nebraska Department of Roads is studying a beltway that would loop U.S. Highway 77 around the City of Fremont.

A bypass around the city's southeastern edge could reduce traffic on Broad Street, which traces Highway 77 through town, by about 20 percent, said acting City Administrator Derril Marshall.

The study will focus on a beltway that would connect the highway from the Platte River bridge to the intersection of Morningside Road and U.S. Highway 275, Marshall said.

The beltway would cost an estimated $20 million.

[icejammer]

Time for a thread revival!

MAPA looking at loop roadway

Area planners and government leaders of today and in the future don't want to be thrown for a loop on highway needs in the ever-growing Council Bluffs/Omaha area.

That's why the Metropolitan Area Planning Agency on Thursday approved a $545,451 feasibility study for an outer loop roadway around the metro area. The contract was awarded to the consulting firm of HDR.

The study is to take about 18 months, said Council Bluffs Mayor Tom Hanafan, a member of the MAPA Board of Directors.

"It's a long-term traffic analysis of the metro area," he said. "A lot of discussion is taking place on how to move the traffic to meet the growth we're having in the metro area. This study will give us a direction of where everybody is going."

According to information provided to the members, the study will determine whether the area needs an outer loop roadway. If so, it would address where it should be located and when is it needed. The study will also determine the cost and how it would be funded. It will also look at alternatives, such as a partial outer loop roadway and improvement to existing roads. The economic impacts of such a road will be studied, according to the information.

[DTO Luv]

I used to be gung ho on this, not so much anymore.

[Brad]

I used to be gung ho on this, not so much anymore.

You should still support it even if you want public transit.  It will keep a lot of the 18wheelers that are just traveling through, out of the heart of the city, cut down on Urban Traffic.

[the1wags]

The section that is going to be needed is across Sarpy Co and then up to link up to the Fremont freeway west of Elkhorn....Ooops, West Omaha. Also they need to take the North freeway up across the river into Iowa and hook it up to 680.

[DTO Luv]

I used to be gung ho on this, not so much anymore.

You should still support it even if you want public transit.  It will keep a lot of the 18wheelers that are just traveling through, out of the heart of the city, cut down on Urban Traffic.

What does it matter if semis use 80 through Omaha or not? If thats part of the reason to build this then I'm even less inclined to be for this.

[Brad]

Because they are loud, dirty, more dangerous, take up more room, wear out roads faster.

[DTO Luv]

So to cut down on maintanance, build TWO sets of roads?

[Brad]

Don't spin it, you took one word out of that whole post.  Maintenance is only a small part of it.  

I80 is already to full.  If we could have a beltway to divert traffic around the city like a lot of other cities do, leaving The urban interstate to the local traffic.   Creating a safer smoother cleaner quieter ride.

Not all of us want to live downtown and we need roads to get down there when we want to.

[DTO Luv]

It's not about living downtown it's about living smart. Cars and gas aren't going to be sustainable forever. I think money would be better spent on other, more sustainable modes of transportation.

[Brad]

You can't blame pollution on the roads.  I don't feel one bit bad about building more roads.  People need to focus less on the roads and look at the real problem, the car makers.  This is America.  We are not going to give up our cars.  We need Electric cars and clean power plants to charge these cars.  Then we need a beltway so we can drive around and around in our clean cars and take lots of pictures of our clean city.