Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by BRoss »

There was a little discussion about this article in the streetcar thread, but thought it could be its own thread.

Omaha transportation's $7.4B future: Planners envision widened Interstates, expanded public transit
Jeffrey Robb / World-Herald staff writer wrote:Notably, the study looking out to 2040 would rebuild the Interstate through the metro area. It would widen Interstates 80, 480 and 680 — a difficult prospect for a highway that’s all but maxed out.

But alongside that, transportation planners say Omaha needs a significant expansion of its public transit system. The report, an effort by the Nebraska Department of Transportation and the Metropolitan Area Planning Agency, proposes to focus 40 percent of the costs on transit.
The leading ideas include:

» Widening the Interstate almost throughout. An idea under consideration is to divide each side of the Interstate into two parts: one set of outside lanes that has access to local interchanges, as the freeway exists now, and an inner set of lanes that runs uninhibited through the city, without that local access, said Greg Youell, MAPA’s executive director.

It’s a concept being implemented in Iowa’s reconstruction of Interstate 80 through Council Bluffs.

» Establishing an Interstate interchange around 180th to 192nd Street in Sarpy County near Vala’s Pumpkin Patch, then widening a north-south route to four lanes to connect with that new interchange.

» Widening major streets such as West Maple Road, South 72nd and 84th Streets, and Dodge Street between 72nd and 84th.

Omaha also has decisions to make about its mass transit system.

The report proposes spending almost $3 billion over time on Omaha’s transit system. Some of that funding exists already in operations and maintenance costs, but the area also will need some $1.1 billion for new capital costs, the report estimates, as it builds projects including new feeder lines into the Dodge Street bus rapid transit system and a midtown Omaha streetcar.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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I don't know if we want to be following Iowas lead on interstate concepts. When you cross the Missouri River bridge on Interstate -80 and go over to I-29 you take a funky 1 lane hot wheels track like ramp into the sky. Concrapulations to the genius that came up with that.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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GrandpaaSmucker wrote:I don't know if we want to be following Iowas lead on interstate concepts. When you cross the Missouri River bridge on Interstate -80 and go over to I-29 you take a funky 1 lane hot wheels track like ramp into the sky. Concrapulations to the genius that came up with that.
I'd be willing to bet that when you take 75 North on to I80 west, that's even higher above the ground than on that East 80 on to 29. The 75 North to 80 West is about 100' above the train tracks below if I remember correctly. These really tall ramps are nothing new, Omaha's topography just hides them well. Go to some of the big cities that are flat and they are even taller.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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Brad wrote:I'd be willing to bet that when you take 75 North on to I80 west, that's even higher above the ground than on that East 80 on to 29.
You could be correct about this, but you don't get the illusion of height because you don't go up when you get on it, you're already up there. So I see what Grandpa is saying, but it is because of the topography.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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Came across the Improvement Study from MAPA:

Here's a high-level overview:
Transit Improvements.jpg
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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If a person lives at 132nd & Center and they want to go to 132nd & Dodge by bus they are screwed. They got to take the bus down center to 72nd and get off the bus and take the next bus down to 72nd & Dodge and get off the bus and then take the next bus up Dodge to 132nd. The person has to take 3 buses about 10 miles just to go 2 miles. So yeah that future bus plan don't look promising right off the bat. Sorry!
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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Nice to see a better idea of the route for the new beltway, but it better be limited access. What's the point, otherwise?
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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GrandpaaSmucker wrote:If a person lives at 132nd & Center and they want to go to 132nd & Dodge by bus they are screwed. They got to take the bus down center to 72nd and get off the bus and take the next bus down to 72nd & Dodge and get off the bus and then take the next bus up Dodge to 132nd. The person has to take 3 buses about 10 miles just to go 2 miles. So yeah that future bus plan don't look promising right off the bat. Sorry!
If Billy is two miles from his suburban destination and a city bus is traveling 35mph in an entirely separate and more densely populated area which provides more effective service, how many apples will he have left after he gets off your lawn.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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HR Paperstacks wrote:Came across the Improvement Study from MAPA:
Thanks for the link! Good reading in there.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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almighty_tuna wrote:If Billy is two miles from his suburban destination and a city bus is traveling 35mph in an entirely separate and more densely populated area which provides more effective service, how many apples will he have left after he gets off your lawn.
In all seriousness, there should be at least a little consideration to have a simple bus route in west Omaha connecting those east west routes. I vote for 144th Street, especially because of West Farm. It should happen eventually. But probably nothing more than that.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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almighty_tuna wrote:
GrandpaaSmucker wrote:If a person lives at 132nd & Center and they want to go to 132nd & Dodge by bus they are screwed. They got to take the bus down center to 72nd and get off the bus and take the next bus down to 72nd & Dodge and get off the bus and then take the next bus up Dodge to 132nd. The person has to take 3 buses about 10 miles just to go 2 miles. So yeah that future bus plan don't look promising right off the bat. Sorry!
If Billy is two miles from his suburban destination and a city bus is traveling 35mph in an entirely separate and more densely populated area which provides more effective service, how many apples will he have left after he gets off your lawn.
I realize that you have come to hate Grandpa. But seriously, quit with the insults. It's a valid concern about the plan. Go from Millard to Benson on this route. It will take you 3-4x as long as by car, assuming you live near a route and the buses are all on time.

As someone else posted, going north on 144th would at least connect some areas and afford the plan some plausible benefit to people in west and central Omaha.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by almighty_tuna »

bigredmed1 wrote:I realize that you have come to hate Grandpa. But seriously, quit with the insults.
Looking at my post history I believe this is my first post responding directly to Smucker. So you must have this history of insults confused with someone else.
bigredmed1 wrote:
almighty_tuna wrote:
GrandpaaSmucker wrote:If a person lives at 132nd & Center and they want to go to 132nd & Dodge by bus they are screwed. They got to take the bus down center to 72nd and get off the bus and take the next bus down to 72nd & Dodge and get off the bus and then take the next bus up Dodge to 132nd. The person has to take 3 buses about 10 miles just to go 2 miles. So yeah that future bus plan don't look promising right off the bat. Sorry!
If Billy is two miles from his suburban destination and a city bus is traveling 35mph in an entirely separate and more densely populated area which provides more effective service, how many apples will he have left after he gets off your lawn.
I realize that you have come to hate Grandpa. But seriously, quit with the insults. It's a valid concern about the plan. Go from Millard to Benson on this route. It will take you 3-4x as long as by car, assuming you live near a route and the buses are all on time.

As someone else posted, going north on 144th would at least connect some areas and afford the plan some plausible benefit to people in west and central Omaha.
In an ideal system there would be better suburban coverage, yes. However cherry-picking an example such as 132nd & Center to 132nd & Dodge is pretty weak sauce. Living in the suburbs comes with some concessions, and this is one of them. It is not economical nor practical to provide comprehensive bus service to an area characterized by its low density housing!

The bus system outside of the 680 loop is oriented toward getting commuters to employment centers, not daily errand traffic. This is clearly demonstrated by the numerous Park & Ride locations along the suburban routes and transit centers within the freeway loop, MCC in south Omaha notwithstanding. It's great when those daily errand needs happen to align with a commuter oriented system but it's a one size fits many transit solution. Though I agree, service back and forth along 144th from Maple south to the Chalco area would definitely serve West Omaha well.

So when Smucker, or anyone else, wants to complain about the lack of bus service along a two mile stretch in the burbs I'm going to call that out just as I would someone who whines we don't have a direct flight from Omaha to KC.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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almighty_tuna wrote:
HR Paperstacks wrote:Came across the Improvement Study from MAPA:
Thanks for the link! Good reading in there.
You are very welcome, Mr Tuna! I for some reason find infrastructure fascinating so I like digging around MAPA and NDOT.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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almighty_tuna wrote:"cherry-picking an example such as 132nd & Center to 132nd & Dodge is pretty weak sauce. Living in the suburbs comes with some concessions, and this is one of them"
Sounds like discrimination to me. West Omaha pays taxes so fools and scamming businessmen can get their useless 150 Million Dollar Miller Lite Tall Boy Can on rails going up and down Farnam Street and we don't even get one lousy bus going North to South. :shrug: No we should not have to concede that to you or anyone else.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

GrandpaaSmucker wrote:
almighty_tuna wrote:"cherry-picking an example such as 132nd & Center to 132nd & Dodge is pretty weak sauce. Living in the suburbs comes with some concessions, and this is one of them"
Sounds like discrimination to me. West Omaha pays taxes so fools and scamming businessmen can get their useless 150 Million Dollar Miller Lite Tall Boy Can on rails going up and down Farnam Street and we don't even get one lousy bus going North to South. :shrug: No we should not have to concede that to you or anyone else.
In an ideal, utopian city, you would certainly not be deprived of a bus line on major thoroughfares such as 132nd Street. However, the style of low-density, autocentric, non-grided suburban development that has been allowed to occur in that area makes transit financially unfeasible. It's a trade off. You get a horizontal house on a large plot of land, but you're going to need to invest in a trusty car to get many places in a reasonable timeframe.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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TitosBuritoBarn wrote:In an ideal, utopian city, you would certainly not be deprived of a bus line on major thoroughfares such as 132nd Street. However, the style of low-density, autocentric, non-grided suburban development that has been allowed to occur in that area makes transit financially unfeasible. It's a trade off. You get a horizontal house on a large plot of land, but you're going to need to invest in a trusty car to get many places in a reasonable timeframe.
I always like to imagine we continued the grid pattern. We could have had the same type of housing we do today only on straight streets. But I do realize it was probably mostly due to topography. People at the beginning of the suburban era probably looked at those hills and creeks and said "yeah, we should stop working so hard for these straight roads". It was probably a smart decision from a pure building efficiency standpoint, and they didn't even realize what effect it would have on transportation today.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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Busguy2010 wrote:
TitosBuritoBarn wrote:In an ideal, utopian city, you would certainly not be deprived of a bus line on major thoroughfares such as 132nd Street. However, the style of low-density, autocentric, non-grided suburban development that has been allowed to occur in that area makes transit financially unfeasible. It's a trade off. You get a horizontal house on a large plot of land, but you're going to need to invest in a trusty car to get many places in a reasonable timeframe.
I always like to imagine we continued the grid pattern. We could have had the same type of housing we do today only on straight streets. But I do realize it was probably mostly due to topography. People at the beginning of the suburban era probably looked at those hills and creeks and said "yeah, we should stop working so hard for these straight roads". It was probably a smart decision from a pure building efficiency standpoint, and they didn't even realize what effect it would have on transportation today.
To be fair to those folks, the older suburbs in Millard were pretty straight. Look at the Oaks and Signal Hill subdivisions. The main creek through there was put into a culvert that dumps out south of Q street and Oaks Lane. That area was the last one to have the straightening as the rest of Millard had too many creeks to culvert.

The primary problem is that the planners never think about alternatives to bulky buses. You could run an airport shuttle from 132 nd and Q street to Dodge and back. It would hit a low income housing area, after old Millard and the Lumberyard apartments. It would buzz past a library and the new rehab center as well as a grocery store, two drug stores, and a bank. Then it would hit Sterling Ridge and Boystown, then the Linden Market before turning around. Time it with the BRT on Dodge and now you have a potentially useful transit option that would not cost so much to run.

To write off half of the city, is to do what libs have done for the past decade. Ever wonder why Stothert owns Millard and West Omaha? People are tired of paying for other people's toys.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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bigredmed1 wrote:To write off half of the city, is to do what libs have done for the past decade. Ever wonder why Stothert owns Millard and West Omaha? People are tired of paying for other people's toys.
Oh quit being such a partisan hack. Both sides are guilty of writing off a section of the city. You want people to take you seriously and work with you on solutions? Then don’t attack everyone just because they don’t share your same viewpoint. We live in a society and you need to learn to compromise.

Why should West Omaha get all these expensive new roads while the urban core gets very little? If we can pay millions to widen 168th, then why can’t people in the core get a project that benefits them? It’s not all about the people who live in West Omaha.

Here are some projects planned for the next ten or so years west of 72nd:
- 168th from Dodge to Maple
- 168th from Pacific to Center
- 168th from Center to Q
- 168th from Q to Harrison
- 156th from Dodge to Maple
- 156th from Dodge to Pacific
- Harrison from 144th to 156th
- Pacific from 168th to 180th
- 180th from Dodge to Maple
- 108th from Q to Harrison
- Q St from 192nd to 204th

The cost to widen all those is incredible. And they are mainly for the suburbanites. There are a few projects east of 72nd but nowhere near as many. And for the core? Little to none.

So who is tired of paying for others’ toys? It’s time to stop being a victim and recognize that you are given enough. Let others have something nice too.

:rant:
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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HR Paperstacks wrote:
bigredmed1 wrote:To write off half of the city, is to do what libs have done for the past decade. Ever wonder why Stothert owns Millard and West Omaha? People are tired of paying for other people's toys.
Oh quit being such a partisan hack. Both sides are guilty of writing off a section of the city. You want people to take you seriously and work with you on solutions? Then don’t attack everyone just because they don’t share your same viewpoint. We live in a society and you need to learn to compromise.

Why should West Omaha get all these expensive new roads while the urban core gets very little? If we can pay millions to widen 168th, then why can’t people in the core get a project that benefits them? It’s not all about the people who live in West Omaha.

Here are some projects planned for the next ten or so years west of 72nd:
- 168th from Dodge to Maple
- 168th from Pacific to Center
- 168th from Center to Q
- 168th from Q to Harrison
- 156th from Dodge to Maple
- 156th from Dodge to Pacific
- Harrison from 144th to 156th
- Pacific from 168th to 180th
- 180th from Dodge to Maple
- 108th from Q to Harrison
- Q St from 192nd to 204th

The cost to widen all those is incredible. And they are mainly for the suburbanites. There are a few projects east of 72nd but nowhere near as many. And for the core? Little to none.

So who is tired of paying for others’ toys? It’s time to stop being a victim and recognize that you are given enough. Let others have something nice too.

:rant:
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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It's a different world out there... It almost makes me wish there was a political divide at I-680 and I-80 to Harrison, and anything west and north of that takes care of itself. Hmm, I'm beginning to think that half of the city couldn't come close to being able to afford all the niceties its experiencing presently. Let's do it!
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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Busguy2010 wrote:
TitosBuritoBarn wrote:In an ideal, utopian city, you would certainly not be deprived of a bus line on major thoroughfares such as 132nd Street. However, the style of low-density, autocentric, non-grided suburban development that has been allowed to occur in that area makes transit financially unfeasible. It's a trade off. You get a horizontal house on a large plot of land, but you're going to need to invest in a trusty car to get many places in a reasonable timeframe.
I always like to imagine we continued the grid pattern. We could have had the same type of housing we do today only on straight streets. But I do realize it was probably mostly due to topography. People at the beginning of the suburban era probably looked at those hills and creeks and said "yeah, we should stop working so hard for these straight roads". It was probably a smart decision from a pure building efficiency standpoint, and they didn't even realize what effect it would have on transportation today.
Back to the “grid” comment....developers and people who wanted to live in west Omaha typically didn’t want through-streets and preferred neighborhoods with culdisacs, and named neighborhoods with borders and their own identity. Also, getting rid of the grids allowed streets to be platted to take advantage of and follow the natural grades or slightly modify them to allow almost every house to have a walk-out basement. I do prefer the older grid neighborhoods more, or at least ones that tie-in with the grid.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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HR Paperstacks wrote:
bigredmed1 wrote:To write off half of the city, is to do what libs have done for the past decade. Ever wonder why Stothert owns Millard and West Omaha? People are tired of paying for other people's toys.
Oh quit being such a partisan hack. Both sides are guilty of writing off a section of the city. You want people to take you seriously and work with you on solutions? Then don’t attack everyone just because they don’t share your same viewpoint. We live in a society and you need to learn to compromise.

Why should West Omaha get all these expensive new roads while the urban core gets very little? If we can pay millions to widen 168th, then why can’t people in the core get a project that benefits them? It’s not all about the people who live in West Omaha.

Here are some projects planned for the next ten or so years west of 72nd:
- 168th from Dodge to Maple
- 168th from Pacific to Center
- 168th from Center to Q
- 168th from Q to Harrison
- 156th from Dodge to Maple
- 156th from Dodge to Pacific
- Harrison from 144th to 156th
- Pacific from 168th to 180th
- 180th from Dodge to Maple
- 108th from Q to Harrison
- Q St from 192nd to 204th

The cost to widen all those is incredible. And they are mainly for the suburbanites. There are a few projects east of 72nd but nowhere near as many. And for the core? Little to none.

So who is tired of paying for others’ toys? It’s time to stop being a victim and recognize that you are given enough. Let others have something nice too.

:rant:
This. Let's remember this next time you cry about the streetcar/any form of mass transit that goes through areas where it's feasible in about 2 seconds or so.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by Louie »

Garrett wrote:
HR Paperstacks wrote:
bigredmed1 wrote:To write off half of the city, is to do what libs have done for the past decade. Ever wonder why Stothert owns Millard and West Omaha? People are tired of paying for other people's toys.
Oh quit being such a partisan hack. Both sides are guilty of writing off a section of the city. You want people to take you seriously and work with you on solutions? Then don’t attack everyone just because they don’t share your same viewpoint. We live in a society and you need to learn to compromise.

Why should West Omaha get all these expensive new roads while the urban core gets very little? If we can pay millions to widen 168th, then why can’t people in the core get a project that benefits them? It’s not all about the people who live in West Omaha.

Here are some projects planned for the next ten or so years west of 72nd:
- 168th from Dodge to Maple
- 168th from Pacific to Center
- 168th from Center to Q
- 168th from Q to Harrison
- 156th from Dodge to Maple
- 156th from Dodge to Pacific
- Harrison from 144th to 156th
- Pacific from 168th to 180th
- 180th from Dodge to Maple
- 108th from Q to Harrison
- Q St from 192nd to 204th

The cost to widen all those is incredible. And they are mainly for the suburbanites. There are a few projects east of 72nd but nowhere near as many. And for the core? Little to none.

So who is tired of paying for others’ toys? It’s time to stop being a victim and recognize that you are given enough. Let others have something nice too.

:rant:
This. Let's remember this next time you cry about the streetcar/any form of mass transit that goes through areas where it's feasible in about 2 seconds or so.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by Omaha Cowboy »

Yep..

I think we've effectively, regardless of party affiliation, liberal or conservative- beaten this topic to death..

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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

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So in summary, nobody wants to pay for anything that helps somebody else's neighborhood and not their own directly.

Ok. :yes:
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by michaelsjewel »

Busguy2010 wrote:Nice to see a better idea of the route for the new beltway, but it better be limited access. What's the point, otherwise?
I totally agree. Needs to be a freeway
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by guy4omaha »

GetUrban wrote:So in summary, nobody wants to pay for anything that helps somebody else's neighborhood and not their own directly.

Ok. :yes:
I can only speak for myself. I use and frequent every part of our metro. I want it all to be helped. I just don't understand this effort, or at least it feels like an effort, to pit different parts of the city against each other. Can we let go of the identity politics?
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by Busguy2010 »

guy4omaha wrote:I can only speak for myself. I use and frequent every part of our metro. I want it all to be helped. I just don't understand this effort, or at least it feels like an effort, to pit different parts of the city against each other. Can we let go of the identity politics?
When the sewer separation project came up, there wasn't much argument over it. That was over a billion dollars. There's not much argument in the countless road widening/new road projects in the suburbs.

The BRT is ~ 30 Million, the streetcar, ~150 million, but there has been WAY more dispute over them. So what's the difference?

The widening of 168th street benefits me in no way, but I surely have no say in it. The BRT and streetcar will probably benefit me a good deal, so why should 180th's thoughts count?

My point is there obviously is a divide at some point and it does physically and socioeconomically exist. What decides necessities vs. luxuries is the real question.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by jessep28 »

The Clean Solutions for Omaha (CSO)/sewer separation project exists due to an unfunded Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) mandate. That's completely different than discretionary transportation spending.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by Busguy2010 »

jessep28 wrote:The Clean Solutions for Omaha (CSO)/sewer separation project exists due to an unfunded Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) mandate. That's completely different than discretionary transportation spending.
Thank you for the clarification. I have another thought...

We will spend 30 Million on the BRT route. How does that compare to the new roads, widening projects, resurfacing projects?

It would be very interesting to see how much money has been spent on urban area street improvements and public transportation, vs how much has been spent establishing and improving new areas over a given period of time.

In Omaha, bus use peaked in 1980 at almost 10 million trips and dramatically dropped to the all-time low of just over 2 million trips in 2003. It would be interesting to discuss the various factors we think have contributed to these
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by Uffda »

Busguy2010 wrote:
In Omaha, bus use peaked in 1980 at almost 10 million trips and dramatically dropped to the all-time low of just over 2 million trips in 2003. It would be interesting to discuss the various factors we think have contributed to these
I wasn’t around here back then but it feels to me that Omaha Metro didn’t have a plan to expand farther west to encourage and pick up new customers. I remember driving down to Denver from Wyoming back in the 80s and see the RTD Park n Rides along I-25 as we got closer to Denver . I know that RTD covers more ground and more people than Metro here would but if you want to go west from 108th Or south past Q Good Luck

Just reading the history there was a plan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regiona ... n_District
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Busguy2010
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by Busguy2010 »

Uffda wrote:I wasn’t around here back then but it feels to me that Omaha Metro didn’t have a plan to expand farther west to encourage and pick up new customers. I remember driving down to Denver from Wyoming back in the 80s and see the RTD Park n Rides along I-25 as we got closer to Denver.
I wasn't close to conceived at that time. Denver is one of the most, if not the most progressive city in america, so that doesn't surprise me so much. But it is very revealing to how far behind Omaha is. Denver had things in the 80's that Omaha might not have for another 20 years.

I have noticed in Minneapolis and Denver, their park and ride garages situated along the interstates aren't even part of their rail systems. I'm having a tough time imagining the magnitude of ridership Metro would need to make those sort of improvements.

The 92 West Dodge Express and the 97 Millard Express are the most used express routes in Omaha. I'm struggling to find the data, but I think I remember they each see around 200 trips per weekday. Our best bets to see the big city types of park and rides in Omaha are at 168th and Dodge, 144th & Dodge. Theoretically, if those 100 or so commuters all drive and park at those lots, you'd have 50 different cars sitting in each lot throughout the day, which i kind of doubt actually happens. But I don't know, there might some anecdotal evidence we could conjure up.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by NEDodger »

Busguy2010 wrote:
I wasn't close to conceived at that time. Denver is one of the most, if not the most progressive city in america, so that doesn't surprise me so much. But it is very revealing to how far behind Omaha is. Denver had things in the 80's that Omaha might not have for another 20 years.
Denver also has three times as many people. This is like lamenting how backwards Blair is because they don’t have a AAA baseball team like Omaha does.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by bigredmed1 »

Busguy2010 wrote:
Uffda wrote:I wasn’t around here back then but it feels to me that Omaha Metro didn’t have a plan to expand farther west to encourage and pick up new customers. I remember driving down to Denver from Wyoming back in the 80s and see the RTD Park n Rides along I-25 as we got closer to Denver.
I wasn't close to conceived at that time. Denver is one of the most, if not the most progressive city in america, so that doesn't surprise me so much. But it is very revealing to how far behind Omaha is. Denver had things in the 80's that Omaha might not have for another 20 years.

I have noticed in Minneapolis and Denver, their park and ride garages situated along the interstates aren't even part of their rail systems. I'm having a tough time imagining the magnitude of ridership Metro would need to make those sort of improvements.

The 92 West Dodge Express and the 97 Millard Express are the most used express routes in Omaha. I'm struggling to find the data, but I think I remember they each see around 200 trips per weekday. Our best bets to see the big city types of park and rides in Omaha are at 168th and Dodge, 144th & Dodge. Theoretically, if those 100 or so commuters all drive and park at those lots, you'd have 50 different cars sitting in each lot throughout the day, which i kind of doubt actually happens. But I don't know, there might some anecdotal evidence we could conjure up.
There will be some push back about the lots. We had this discussion at UNMC and staff who moved from the east coast were pretty adamant about not using park and ride lots due to the risk to their vehicles left in lots and the unwillingness of their employers or the police to protect the lots. We see push back from local employees doing park and ride now. In addition to the same concerns at UNMC in terms of their safety, they have to get to work half an hour early (but don't get to clock in at the park and ride, so they don't get paid for the extra half hour each way) and this is wearing them out.

I think that expanded express routes would work in Omaha, especially if we could set up connector nodes and let circulator buses connect to them at these nodes. But I think we should try to avoid or fix problems we know actually are happening here or have happened in other cities as we design the system.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by Busguy2010 »

Uffda wrote:Just reading the history there was a plan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regiona ... n_District
I really love how Denver fully expects to become a HUGE city. I've always felt their public transportation system has been hugely overbuilt, but when they do become that city, they definitely won't be scrambling for solutions. They've got their commuter rail system looking like the ones in the east coast, it's incredible!
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by Uffda »

NEDodger wrote:
Denver also has three times as many people. This is like lamenting how backwards Blair is because they don’t have a AAA baseball team like Omaha does.
Yes Denver is larger BUT I think you are missing the point --- Denver's RTD has been going for 40+ yrs and there was a definite plan of expansion into new areas... Omaha Metro -- not so much
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by ZaEry »

HR Paperstacks wrote:
bigredmed1 wrote:To write off half of the city, is to do what libs have done for the past decade. Ever wonder why Stothert owns Millard and West Omaha? People are tired of paying for other people's toys.
Oh quit being such a partisan hack. Both sides are guilty of writing off a section of the city. You want people to take you seriously and work with you on solutions? Then don’t attack everyone just because they don’t share your same viewpoint. We live in a society and you need to learn to compromise.

Why should West Omaha get all these expensive new roads while the urban core gets very little? If we can pay millions to widen 168th, then why can’t people in the core get a project that benefits them? It’s not all about the people who live in West Omaha.

Here are some projects planned for the next ten or so years west of 72nd:
- 168th from Dodge to Maple
- 168th from Pacific to Center
- 168th from Center to Q
- 168th from Q to Harrison
- 156th from Dodge to Maple
- 156th from Dodge to Pacific
- Harrison from 144th to 156th
- Pacific from 168th to 180th
- 180th from Dodge to Maple
- 108th from Q to Harrison
- Q St from 192nd to 204th

The cost to widen all those is incredible. And they are mainly for the suburbanites. There are a few projects east of 72nd but nowhere near as many. And for the core? Little to none.

So who is tired of paying for others’ toys? It’s time to stop being a victim and recognize that you are given enough. Let others have something nice too.

:rant:
Don't forget Fort from 120th-132nd and 120th from Fort-Maple. This is just my opinion, I've been trying to talk to the city about this but since 120th from Maple-Fort, along with intersection improvements to 120th & Maple is in the plans, that would be a great time to make Maple from Emmet-124th six lanes.
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by BRoss »

Noticed that the executive summary for phase 3 of the Metro Area Travel Improvement Study was posted recently on NDOT's website.

Phase 3 consisted of making a detailed freeway plan. I haven't been able to find the actual report yet, but the executive summary lists the following:
  • I-80
    • Addition of one or two mainline lanes in each direction plus auxiliary lanes, depending on location
    • Potential new interchange on I-80 between 180th Street and 192nd Street
    • Reconfiguration to a Diverging Diamond Interchange at N-31, N-370, N-50, and L Street (US 275)
    • Permanent closure of the 24th Street Interchange in Omaha
  • I-480
    • Addition of one northbound mainline lane between I-80 and Leavenworth Street
    • Addition of one southbound mainline lane between I-80 and Harney Street
  • US-75
    • Addition of one or two mainline lanes in each direction, depending on location
    • Reconfiguration to a Diverging Diamond Interchange at Cornhusker Road
    • Reconfiguration to a Diamond Interchange at Q Street
    • Reconfiguration to a Half Diamond Interchange (to the north) at L Street
    • Reconstructed frontage roads between Q Street and L Street
    • Permanent closure of the F Street interchange
  • I-680
    • Addition of one or two mainline lanes in each direction, depending on location
    • Reconfiguration of the collector-distributor road between Pacific Street and I-80
    • Reconfiguration to a Diverging Diamond Interchange at Pacific Street
    • Reconfiguration to a Partial Cloverleaf Interchange at Fort Street and Blair High Road
  • Dodge
    • Addition of one mainline lane in each direction plus auxiliary lanes, depending on location
    • Narrow lanes (11-foot) and shoulders to provide four westbound lanes on the elevated portion of West Dodge Road Expressway (two lanes from westbound West Dodge Road and two lanes from I-680)
    • Reconfiguration to a Diverging Diamond Interchange at 192nd Street
    • Reconfiguration of a portion of the I-680 / West Dodge Road system interchange to eliminate weaving for traffic from I-680 heading westbound

It says that these projects are expected to start prior to 2030:
  • Interchange Expansion
    • I-80 & N-370: Reconfiguration to a Diverging Diamond Interchange
    • I-80 & 180th/192nd Street: Potential New Interchange
    • West Dodge Road & 192nd Street: Reconfiguration to a Diverging Diamond Interchange
    • I-680 & West Dodge Road: System Interchange Reconfiguration to eliminate weaving for traffic from I-680 to westbound West Dodge Road
  • Mainline Expansion
    • I-80 WB (Q Street to Giles Road): Addition of a westbound auxiliary lane
    • I-80 WB (I-80/I-480/US 75 System Interchange to 42nd Street): Addition of one westbound mainline lane
    • I-480 (I-80 to Harney Street): Addition of one mainline lane in each direction
    • I-680 NB (Pacific Street to West Dodge Road): Addition of one northbound mainline lane under the Pacific Street bridge to the I-680/West Dodge Road System Interchange
    • I-680 SB (Under Pacific Street): Addition of one southbound mainline lane under Pacific Street
    • I-680 (Fort Street to Blair High Road): Addition of one mainline lane in each direction with auxiliary lanes
    • US 75 NB (Chandler Road to F Street): Addition of one northbound mainline lane
    • West Dodge Road WB (132nd Street to 144th Street): Addition of one westbound mainline lane
    • West Dodge Road EB (137th Street to 132nd Street): Addition of one eastbound mainline
MTIS Phase 3.JPG
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by bigredmed1 »

Why do they plan to shut down the 24th street interchange on I-80?
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Re: Omaha transportation's $7.4B future

Post by Busguy2010 »

bigredmed1 wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:49 pm Why do they plan to shut down the 24th street interchange on I-80?
I dont know, maybe to increase walkability of the intersection. Im not in favor of getting rid of 24th, but F street, Martha, and 13th aren't too far away. If you want to go west or north from 24th, those options are a little undesirable.
Last edited by Busguy2010 on Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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