Omaha Eppley Airfield

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NovakOmaha
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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby NovakOmaha » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Omaha Cowboy wrote:This is fantastic growth..

As the W-H piece points out, a strong indicator of an excellent economy combined with increased demand for larger planes, more seats and now a record 29 non stop destinations.. I'd like to see that number increase to the mid 30's within the next 18 or so months...

Ciao..LiO...Peace


Bostom, Philly, Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa(TPA), JFK, BWI, Dulles, Ft Myers, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans, San Antonio, Austin, Toronto, Puerto Vallarta, Cancun.

And before you spew something about "PDEW" or "Omaha can't support all that. We should be happy with what we have. For a city this size..." Blah, blah, blah, my response is this. Why not Omaha? The day is approaching where there will be a new terminal. Outfit it with whatever it takes to have an international gate or two and customs. Why Not Omaha??? Dream large! This inferiority complex is over. While Kansas City and Des Moines were harping about new arenas Omaha built one. They are only now building headquarters hotels for their arenas while Omaha is finishing it's second. I've been to plenty of other cities that would cut off their balls & hand them to you if they could have what Omaha has. Why Not Omaha. Yes, Cancun, Toronto, Puerto Vallarta. It's enough already.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Omaha Cowboy » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:04 pm

NovakOmaha wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:This is fantastic growth..

As the W-H piece points out, a strong indicator of an excellent economy combined with increased demand for larger planes, more seats and now a record 29 non stop destinations.. I'd like to see that number increase to the mid 30's within the next 18 or so months...

Ciao..LiO...Peace


Bostom, Philly, Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa(TPA), JFK, BWI, Dulles, Ft Myers, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans, San Antonio, Austin, Toronto, Puerto Vallarta, Cancun.

And before you spew something about "PDEW" or "Omaha can't support all that. We should be happy with what we have. For a city this size..." Blah, blah, blah, my response is this. Why not Omaha? The day is approaching where there will be a new terminal. Outfit it with whatever it takes to have an international gate or two and customs. Why Not Omaha??? Dream large! This inferiority complex is over. While Kansas City and Des Moines were harping about new arenas Omaha built one. They are only now building headquarters hotels for their arenas while Omaha is finishing it's second. I've been to plenty of other cities that would cut off their balls & hand them to you if they could have what Omaha has. Why Not Omaha. Yes, Cancun, Toronto, Puerto Vallarta. It's enough already.


I couldn't have said it better. I agree completely :clap: :clap:..

Ciao..LiO...Peace
Go Cowboys!

buildomaha
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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby buildomaha » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:54 pm

Omaha Cowboy wrote:
NovakOmaha wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:This is fantastic growth..

As the W-H piece points out, a strong indicator of an excellent economy combined with increased demand for larger planes, more seats and now a record 29 non stop destinations.. I'd like to see that number increase to the mid 30's within the next 18 or so months...

Ciao..LiO...Peace


Bostom, Philly, Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa(TPA), JFK, BWI, Dulles, Ft Myers, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans, San Antonio, Austin, Toronto, Puerto Vallarta, Cancun.

And before you spew something about "PDEW" or "Omaha can't support all that. We should be happy with what we have. For a city this size..." Blah, blah, blah, my response is this. Why not Omaha? The day is approaching where there will be a new terminal. Outfit it with whatever it takes to have an international gate or two and customs. Why Not Omaha??? Dream large! This inferiority complex is over. While Kansas City and Des Moines were harping about new arenas Omaha built one. They are only now building headquarters hotels for their arenas while Omaha is finishing it's second. I've been to plenty of other cities that would cut off their balls & hand them to you if they could have what Omaha has. Why Not Omaha. Yes, Cancun, Toronto, Puerto Vallarta. It's enough already.


I couldn't have said it better. I agree completely :clap: :clap:..

Ciao..LiO...Peace

I agree. We're not going to get better than our peer competitors by following their lead. The only reason different cities become better than their peers is because they stared doing something different!

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Louie » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:31 am

NovakOmaha wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:This is fantastic growth..

As the W-H piece points out, a strong indicator of an excellent economy combined with increased demand for larger planes, more seats and now a record 29 non stop destinations.. I'd like to see that number increase to the mid 30's within the next 18 or so months...

Ciao..LiO...Peace


Bostom, Philly, Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa(TPA), JFK, BWI, Dulles, Ft Myers, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans, San Antonio, Austin, Toronto, Puerto Vallarta, Cancun.

And before you spew something about "PDEW" or "Omaha can't support all that. We should be happy with what we have. For a city this size..." Blah, blah, blah, my response is this. Why not Omaha? The day is approaching where there will be a new terminal. Outfit it with whatever it takes to have an international gate or two and customs. Why Not Omaha??? Dream large! This inferiority complex is over. While Kansas City and Des Moines were harping about new arenas Omaha built one. They are only now building headquarters hotels for their arenas while Omaha is finishing it's second. I've been to plenty of other cities that would cut off their balls & hand them to you if they could have what Omaha has. Why Not Omaha. Yes, Cancun, Toronto, Puerto Vallarta. It's enough already.

Rah! Rah!!

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby daveoma » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:15 pm

NovakOmaha wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:This is fantastic growth..

As the W-H piece points out, a strong indicator of an excellent economy combined with increased demand for larger planes, more seats and now a record 29 non stop destinations.. I'd like to see that number increase to the mid 30's within the next 18 or so months...

Ciao..LiO...Peace


Bostom, Philly, Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa(TPA), JFK, BWI, Dulles, Ft Myers, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans, San Antonio, Austin, Toronto, Puerto Vallarta, Cancun.

And before you spew something about "PDEW" or "Omaha can't support all that. We should be happy with what we have. For a city this size..." Blah, blah, blah, my response is this. Why not Omaha? The day is approaching where there will be a new terminal. Outfit it with whatever it takes to have an international gate or two and customs. Why Not Omaha??? Dream large! This inferiority complex is over. While Kansas City and Des Moines were harping about new arenas Omaha built one. They are only now building headquarters hotels for their arenas while Omaha is finishing it's second. I've been to plenty of other cities that would cut off their balls & hand them to you if they could have what Omaha has. Why Not Omaha. Yes, Cancun, Toronto, Puerto Vallarta. It's enough already.

Thank you so much for posting this. I totally agree :-) :-)

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Mr.Nuke » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:41 pm

NovakOmaha wrote:As for advertising I'd suggest the Lincoln, Grand Island, Kearny, Des Moines, Sioux City papers. Why Des Moines if they aren't in the true catchment area? Because those west of Des Moines read that paper. And for what it's worth, there is a percentage of Des Moines residents who still drive to Omaha to fly. I wouldn't put an ad in every day but a couple of Sundays a month in the travel section.

That’s where I’d want to look at the data about how many people in a given city fly, how many of them already come to Omaha (see Lincoln), how many of them would consider coming to Omaha versus flying out of somewhere else. My assumption is that within Omaha’s catchment area and I’d certainly include Sioux City and Lincoln in that, is that leakage is fairly small negating the need/impact of any advertising. I do think there are opportunities particularly if Des Moines if say data shows that there is a market for people flying to California and Omaha could go in and create a niche ad highlighting the non-stops, total travel time, and significantly cheaper tickets (true on some random days I looked at).

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Mr.Nuke » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:47 pm

Q3 2016 PDEW
Chicago 383
Denver 295
Washinton D.C. 278
LA 256
Dallas 215
New York City 205
Phoenix 200
Las Vegas 187
San Francisco 164
Seattle 150
Portland 127
Atlanta 123
Orlando 120
St. Louis 111
San Diego 106
Boston 100
Houston 89
Minneapolis 77.5
Tampa 77
Salt Lake City 62
Detroit 61
Charlotte 59
Sacramento 58
Philadelphia 58
Miami 55
Nashville 50
San Antonio 44
Raleigh Durham 36
Austin 35
Cleveland 34
New Orleans 33
Norfolk 31
Indianapolis 30
Columbus 26
Milwaukee 25

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Mr.Nuke » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:52 pm

Q4 2016 PDEW
Chicago 350
Denver 307
Phoenix 262
Los Angeles 246
Washington D.C. 245
Las Vegas 213
Dallas 206
New York City 199
Orlando 163
San Francisco 148
Atlanta 123
Seattle 122
Houston 113
St. Louis 102
San Diego 91
Boston 87
Minneapolis 81
Portland 80
Tampa 75
Miami 71
Detroit 68
Salt Lake City 62
Charlotte 61
Philadelphia 58
Nashville 54
San Antonio 45
Sacramento 45
Raleigh Durham 41
Columbus 39
Austin 36
Indianapolis 34
New Orleans 33
Fort Myers 29
Cleveland 28
Milwaukee 26

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OmahaJaysCU
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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby OmahaJaysCU » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Those Milwaukee numbers amaze me considering a few years ago we had 2 airlines routing multiple flights per day there. I get that wasn't necessarily their final destination but still.

Also those San Diego and Boston numbers.......

Omaha_corn_burner
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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Omaha_corn_burner » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:21 pm

Are PDEW numbers an average?

Why are 29 people flying back and forth from Fort Myers each day? Meaning, what is the connection with Omaha?

EDIT: Maybe Mutual of Omaha?

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby NovakOmaha » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:18 pm

All right. I seriously don't want to put anyone down or get into a p i s s i n g contest. I really don't. Last time I did that was with the European Village dude.

BUT.....

Add up the numbers. Multiply by two. Multiply that by 365. I don't remember the exact number but it was either 2.5 or 2.8 million. Are there that many cities not listed where over 2,000 people flew every day to make up the difference?

AND...

As I said, I was at a business lunch meeting and there was a representative from Delta there. I happened to ask him about PDEW. He said Delta doesn't take such things into account and to his knowledge neither does any other airline. They have a very thorough set of parameters they use in deciding where to have service. He said yes, demand is the largest part but there is a different matrix they use for demand projection and there are other parts that go into it.

SO...

Eppley is approaching the point where growth is beginning to call for preliminary design and planning for the terminal expansion project.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Omaha Cowboy » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:37 pm

NovakOmaha wrote:Eppley is approaching the point where growth is beginning to call for preliminary design and planning for the terminal expansion project.


If the numbers for 2017 continue the uptick trend (and I don't see any reason they won't) I believe the talk of terminal expansion will really grow legs Q1 of 2018...

Ciao...LiO...Peace
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Ryan Air
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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Ryan Air » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:21 am

Omaha Cowboy wrote:
NovakOmaha wrote:Eppley is approaching the point where growth is beginning to call for preliminary design and planning for the terminal expansion project.


If the numbers for 2017 continue the uptick trend (and I don't see any reason they won't) I believe the talk of terminal expansion will really grow legs Q1 of 2018...

Ciao...LiO...Peace


The terminal expansion, combined security checkpoints will come after the expansion of the north and the south concourse expansion after that. It's not all one inclusive project.

It appears that the number of flights/destinations has triggered an "immediate need" for the expansion of the north concourse and a combined utility plant.

New terminal and south concourse expansion are 1-2.5 million passengers away (new terminal 1.5 million ish away, so 4-5 years and 2.5 million ish away from south concourse expansion)

I would not be surprised if construction/expansion of the north concourse begins sometime next year. With that will likely come a new control tower too, I'm guessing.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Omaha Cowboy » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:25 pm

Ryan Air wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:
NovakOmaha wrote:Eppley is approaching the point where growth is beginning to call for preliminary design and planning for the terminal expansion project.


If the numbers for 2017 continue the uptick trend (and I don't see any reason they won't) I believe the talk of terminal expansion will really grow legs Q1 of 2018...

Ciao...LiO...Peace


The terminal expansion, combined security checkpoints will come after the expansion of the north and the south concourse expansion after that. It's not all one inclusive project.

It appears that the number of flights/destinations has triggered an "immediate need" for the expansion of the north concourse and a combined utility plant.

New terminal and south concourse expansion are 1-2.5 million passengers away (new terminal 1.5 million ish away, so 4-5 years and 2.5 million ish away from south concourse expansion)

I would not be surprised if construction/expansion of the north concourse begins sometime next year. With that will likely come a new control tower too, I'm guessing.


Interesting intel. Thanks for the feedback and perspective Ryan :thumb: ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace
Go Cowboys!

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Omaha Cowboy » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:57 pm

Southwest adding a seasonal non stop to Tampa from OMA-

http://www.omaha.com/money/southwest-ai ... a9010.html

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby NovakOmaha » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:06 pm

Omaha Cowboy wrote:Southwest adding a seasonal non stop to Tampa from OMA-

http://www.omaha.com/money/southwest-ai ... a9010.html

Ciao..LiO...Peace


Somebody tell the airport to make that total in the ad 30 airports.

Now....

1) It's about time

2) I don't understand why seasonal. One would think Orlando & Tampa would be year round routes.

3) There is only a 75-77 PDEW. Southwest is foolish to fly a 137 passenger jet. 60 empty seats on average.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby daveoma » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:21 pm

NovakOmaha wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:Southwest adding a seasonal non stop to Tampa from OMA-

http://www.omaha.com/money/southwest-ai ... a9010.html

Ciao..LiO...Peace


Somebody tell the airport to make that total in the ad 30 airports.

Now....

1) It's about time

2) I don't understand why seasonal. One would think Orlando & Tampa would be year round routes.

3) There is only a 75-77 PDEW. Southwest is foolish to fly a 137 passenger jet. 60 empty seats on average.

What's PDEW?

I saw on Wikipedia that there's a cargo flight that travels between Omaha and Winnipeg. I had no idea we had that.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Omaha Cowboy » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:39 pm

daveoma wrote:
NovakOmaha wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:3) There is only a 75-77 PDEW. Southwest is foolish to fly a 137 passenger jet. 60 empty seats on average.

What's PDEW? .


PDEW = Passengers Daily Each Way...

Ciao..LiO...Peace
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Uffda
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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Uffda » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:01 am

NovakOmaha wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:Southwest adding a seasonal non stop to Tampa from OMA-

http://www.omaha.com/money/southwest-ai ... a9010.html

Ciao..LiO...Peace


Somebody tell the airport to make that total in the ad 30 airports.

Now....

1) It's about time

2) I don't understand why seasonal. One would think Orlando & Tampa would be year round routes.

3) There is only a 75-77 PDEW. Southwest is foolish to fly a 137 passenger jet. 60 empty seats on average.


Well it looks like it is only flying Saturdays so that is probably How they justify it.

You can also fly non stop on Allegiant to St Pete/Clearwater year round.
Last edited by Uffda on Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby nebugeater » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:25 am

Uffda wrote:
NovakOmaha wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:Southwest adding a seasonal non stop to Tampa from OMA-

http://www.omaha.com/money/southwest-ai ... a9010.html

Ciao..LiO...Peace


Somebody tell the airport to make that total in the ad 30 airports.

Now....

1) It's about time

2) I don't understand why seasonal. One would think Orlando & Tampa would be year round routes.

3) There is only a 75-77 PDEW. Southwest is foolish to fly a 137 passenger jet. 60 empty seats on average.


Well it looks like it is only flying Saturdays so that is probably How they justify it.

You can also fly now stop on Allegiant to St Pete/Clearwater year round.


It is not only about the flight out. If the plane is full coming in and they need to get it to the next destination where it again is full it can be as much about total management of the plane and not just any one flight on it's route legs
For the record  NEBUGEATER does not equal BUGEATER    !!!!!!!

Omaha_corn_burner
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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Omaha_corn_burner » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:11 am

Omaha Cowboy wrote:
daveoma wrote:
NovakOmaha wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:3) There is only a 75-77 PDEW. Southwest is foolish to fly a 137 passenger jet. 60 empty seats on average.

What's PDEW? .


PDEW = Passengers Daily Each Way...

Is PDEW defined as a passenger that flies both directions in one day? Or do they allow stopovers to be counted?

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Omaha Cowboy » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:50 pm

Omaha_corn_burner wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:
daveoma wrote:
NovakOmaha wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:3) There is only a 75-77 PDEW. Southwest is foolish to fly a 137 passenger jet. 60 empty seats on average.

What's PDEW? .


PDEW = Passengers Daily Each Way...

Is PDEW defined as a passenger that flies both directions in one day? Or do they allow stopovers to be counted?


From what I understand, PDEW is simply the number of passengers on a given fight going each way, each destination. I would think if there is a stopover, that would likely be counted. Perhaps one of our forum air experts can give 100% clarification on that point...

Ciao..LiO...Peace
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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Ryan Air » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:55 pm

Omaha Cowboy wrote:
Omaha_corn_burner wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:
daveoma wrote:
NovakOmaha wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:3) There is only a 75-77 PDEW. Southwest is foolish to fly a 137 passenger jet. 60 empty seats on average.

What's PDEW? .


PDEW = Passengers Daily Each Way...

Is PDEW defined as a passenger that flies both directions in one day? Or do they allow stopovers to be counted?


From what I understand, PDEW is simply the number of passengers on a given fight going each way, each destination. I would think if there is a stopover, that would likely be counted. Perhaps one of our forum air experts can give 100% clarification on that point...

Ciao..LiO...Peace


PDEW is the number of passengers originating and destined to a particular set of cities on a given day.

Two example cities below: PDEW for City A snd City B
Notice how City A's PDEW for City B is the same as City B's PDEW for City A for the same time period? There may or may not be a connecting flight between cities (direct or indirect flights)

Q3 2011
City A
_________
City B 120
City C 110
City D 54

City B
_________
City A 120
City C 64
City D 110

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Omaha Cowboy » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:57 pm

Ryan Air wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:
Omaha_corn_burner wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:
daveoma wrote:
NovakOmaha wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:3) There is only a 75-77 PDEW. Southwest is foolish to fly a 137 passenger jet. 60 empty seats on average.

What's PDEW? .


PDEW = Passengers Daily Each Way...

Is PDEW defined as a passenger that flies both directions in one day? Or do they allow stopovers to be counted?


From what I understand, PDEW is simply the number of passengers on a given fight going each way, each destination. I would think if there is a stopover, that would likely be counted. Perhaps one of our forum air experts can give 100% clarification on that point...

Ciao..LiO...Peace


PDEW is the number of passengers originating and destined to a particular set of cities on a given day.

Two example cities below: PDEW for City A snd City B
Notice how City A's PDEW for City B is the same as City B's PDEW for City A for the same time period? There may or may not be a connecting flight between cities (direct or indirect flights)

Q3 2011
City A
_________
City B 120
City C 110
City D 54

City B
_________
City A 120
City C 64
City D 110


And there you go..

Thank you Ryan :thumb: ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace
Go Cowboys!

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Omaha_corn_burner » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:39 pm

Mr.Nuke wrote:Q4 2016 PDEW
Chicago 350
Denver 307
Phoenix 262
<snip>

Are these the grand total numbers, or just the domestic numbers?
Is there an international destination PDEW list for Omaha?

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby joleo » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:45 pm

Omaha_corn_burner wrote:
Mr.Nuke wrote:Q4 2016 PDEW
Chicago 350
Denver 307
Phoenix 262
<snip>

Are these the grand total numbers, or just the domestic numbers?
Is there an international destination PDEW list for Omaha?


PDEW has nothing to do with domestic vs international, I think you're misunderstanding PDEW. If you are flying from Omaha to LGA via ORD, the OMA-ORD does not count in the Chicago PDEW, it only counts in OMA-LGA PDEW. For example, flying to Austin, Texas, it doesn't matter where you connect, the PDEW is the number of passengers that originate at Omaha and arrive in Austin. Make sense?

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Ben » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:50 am

Just returned from a trip out of town last week, and Eppley is going to have some big time problems come the holidays, and peak travel season hits....

With the north garage (rental cars) currently under reconstruction, there's a huge limit on available parking, as the temporary rental car spot takes up a bunch of the south lot. Between the 2 on-airport lots, there were less than 2 dozen available long term spots.... That's clearly going to cause an issue come Thanksgiving/Christmas time.

I hope the airport authority is thinking ahead, and trying to figure something out. I don't know what the answer is (use employee lot for public use?; temporarily rent one of the vacant old lots across Abbott Dr?, or suggest using the private lots off aiport?).

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Omaha_corn_burner » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:16 am

joleo wrote:
Omaha_corn_burner wrote:
Mr.Nuke wrote:Q4 2016 PDEW
Chicago 350
Denver 307
Phoenix 262
<snip>

Are these the grand total numbers, or just the domestic numbers?
Is there an international destination PDEW list for Omaha?


PDEW has nothing to do with domestic vs international, I think you're misunderstanding PDEW. If you are flying from Omaha to LGA via ORD, the OMA-ORD does not count in the Chicago PDEW, it only counts in OMA-LGA PDEW. For example, flying to Austin, Texas, it doesn't matter where you connect, the PDEW is the number of passengers that originate at Omaha and arrive in Austin. Make sense?


Oh, I get it. I'm asking where the international destinations are. London, Paris, or some south American destinations should be up there for international destinations.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby iamjacobm » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:00 am

Ben wrote:Just returned from a trip out of town last week, and Eppley is going to have some big time problems come the holidays, and peak travel season hits....

With the north garage (rental cars) currently under reconstruction, there's a huge limit on available parking, as the temporary rental car spot takes up a bunch of the south lot. Between the 2 on-airport lots, there were less than 2 dozen available long term spots.... That's clearly going to cause an issue come Thanksgiving/Christmas time.

I hope the airport authority is thinking ahead, and trying to figure something out. I don't know what the answer is (use employee lot for public use?; temporarily rent one of the vacant old lots across Abbott Dr?, or suggest using the private lots off aiport?).


I have noticed that the garage has been exceptionally full the last few months as well. The expansion is certainly needed, but your right will cause some pain for a couple years.

There is that lot off of Locust that has been vacant for years, but it has to be pretty deteriorated by now and would need some quick investment.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Uffda » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:15 am

Ben wrote:Just returned from a trip out of town last week, and Eppley is going to have some big time problems come the holidays, and peak travel season hits....

With the north garage (rental cars) currently under reconstruction, there's a huge limit on available parking, as the temporary rental car spot takes up a bunch of the south lot. Between the 2 on-airport lots, there were less than 2 dozen available long term spots.... That's clearly going to cause an issue come Thanksgiving/Christmas time.

I hope the airport authority is thinking ahead, and trying to figure something out. I don't know what the answer is (use employee lot for public use?; temporarily rent one of the vacant old lots across Abbott Dr?, or suggest using the private lots off aiport?).


If I can't get dropped off/picked up by a friend, I use Budgets lot on Locust. I think it was like $5.50 a day.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Ryan Air » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:59 pm

Omaha_corn_burner wrote:
joleo wrote:
Omaha_corn_burner wrote:
Mr.Nuke wrote:Q4 2016 PDEW
Chicago 350
Denver 307
Phoenix 262
<snip>

Are these the grand total numbers, or just the domestic numbers?
Is there an international destination PDEW list for Omaha?


PDEW has nothing to do with domestic vs international, I think you're misunderstanding PDEW. If you are flying from Omaha to LGA via ORD, the OMA-ORD does not count in the Chicago PDEW, it only counts in OMA-LGA PDEW. For example, flying to Austin, Texas, it doesn't matter where you connect, the PDEW is the number of passengers that originate at Omaha and arrive in Austin. Make sense?


Oh, I get it. I'm asking where the international destinations are. London, Paris, or some south American destinations should be up there for international destinations.


I seem to be having issues updating my computer and every time I go to pull the FAA passenger stats, I do not have "a secure connection" to do so.
Yes, international PDEW numbers are available. I believe I have even seen some of them quoted before (perhaps by Mr. Nuke?). Anyway… here is the link I use, look around… you will find the data. Maybe somebody on here can pull the numbers again from the last reporting period? If so, that would be awesome.

https://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviat ... tatistics/

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Omaha_corn_burner » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:42 pm

I gave up after 10 unsuccessful minutes of clicking around and just started going back though this thread. Mr Nuke posted a link, but mentioned it only listed city pairs with more than 10 passengers per day.

So either there's not a lot of international travel from Omaha, or we all like to go to different places in the world.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Ryan Air » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:06 pm

Omaha_corn_burner wrote:I gave up after 10 unsuccessful minutes of clicking around and just started going back though this thread. Mr Nuke posted a link, but mentioned it only listed city pairs with more than 10 passengers per day.

So either there's not a lot of international travel from Omaha, or we all like to go to different places in the world.


I do seem to remember him quoting numbers for Can Cun and Toronto maybe? I could be making that up- I am not even sure if he was referring to OMA or another airport, to be honest.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Ryan Air » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:12 pm

Mr.Nuke wrote:I like pie in the sky ideas for what could fill in route holes for Omaha or where I would like to see service, but I think we need to look at this rationally too.

All data is for quarter 4 of 2015. There is going to be some seasonal variation particularly with warmer climate destinations in quarters 4 and 1. All numbers are passengers daily each way (PDEW) except where noted with the international destinations. I think it is also important to keep in mind that just because people are flying to these cities doesn't necessarily mean they'd take the direct flight if there was one be it: allegiance to a competing airline, better timing with a 1 stop connection, or price, etc. I also don't have a clue what PDEW in airline is looking for prior to starting service, but my guess is even if you are using 1 regional jet a day you'd like to see 90+ and or be relying on connecting passengers (something PDEW doesn't factor).

Lastly, I don’t doubt that some routes would see a pdew boost of someone actually started flying them, but it is a little chicken and egg like in that no one really is likely to start flying them without the perceived demand.
joleo wrote:Future wishlist service:
Alaska to San Diego

PDEW of 85. This is one of the higher values not currently seeing direct service from Omaha. If not Alaska, I could also see Southwest trying this seasonally at some point. It is borderline still though.
joleo wrote:Southwest to Minneapolis, Houston and Nashville.

Minneapolis is only 55 daily. That is a fairly good sign many people taking the delta flights are connecting elsewhere. I don't see Southwest touching that. Same with Nashville and only 45. Houston is at 102 people each way daily, but this is still only half of the next highest city that receives direct flights on multiple airlines. If they want to start connecting people to Mexico and Latin America from Omaha I wouldn't be surprised there.
joleo wrote:Southwest - a second daily flight to Dallas. (they are testing a second daily flight on select weekends this winter)

DAL alone, not including DFW has a PDEW of 88, obviously higher than many of the metros we've already discussed.
joleo wrote:Southwest switching Orlando service to year-round service instead of summer only and weekend only other times of the year.

Again the numbers I'm using are for Q4 when you'd expect people are going to head to warmer climates, but Orlando's PDEW is 146, the highest of any metro not seeing daily service. This is really the main route that needs to see more attention.
joleo wrote:Frontier going to daily service year-round to Denver and double daily in the summers.

Frontier is still a mess and with 2 other airlines already serving the route I personally don't expect much. Denver has a PDEW of 265, and again that doesn't count all of the people going through there on their way to somewhere else.
joleo wrote:American to Philadelphia would be nice too!

Only 51 people daily each way.

NovakOmaha wrote:My list of fill ins in the route map:
Boston

Another really borderline one with San Diego with a PDEW of 81. Short of JetBlue coming to Omaha I'm not really sure who would fly it either. Southwest goes to Kansas City, but the Boston<->KC PDEW is 257, over 3 times that of Omaha.
NovakOmaha wrote:JFK

Nope. While the New York metro has a PDEW of 230, JFK is only a measly 12.
NovakOmaha wrote:BWI , Dulles

Nope and nope. BWI is 41 and IAD is only 32. Entire metro is 224 very similar to the NYC situation.
NovakOmaha wrote:PHL

Already addressed.
NovakOmaha wrote:MIA
FLL(yes, Fort Lauderdale in addition to Miami)

The entire metro is only 78. Getting service to one is questionable much less both.
NovakOmaha wrote:Ft. Myers

Nope only 25.
NovakOmaha wrote:Nashville

Already addressed
NovakOmaha wrote:New Orleans

Only 36
NovakOmaha wrote:San Diego

Already addressed.
International is a bit different as there isn't the same data source. For this i'm relying on 2011 Brookings Institute data, which is the best I can do.
NovakOmaha wrote:Toronto

8,495 total passengers in 2011. Converting into PDEW that is 11.6. Kansas City is on track for about 15,000 passengers on air Canada one way this year.
NovakOmaha wrote:Cancun

59,177 total passengers or 81 PDEW. Given that a lot of these would be clustered seasonally pdew would be even higher during specific time periods. I have no doubt if Cancun had pre-clearance or Omaha had a customs/immigration facility to handle commercial aircraft that someone would be doing this seasonally.
NovakOmaha wrote:Puerto Vallarta

See Toronto. 11,577 or 15.85 passengers daily each way.
NovakOmaha wrote:Cabo San Lucas

Same. 10,517 or 14.4
NovakOmaha wrote:Let's put the issue to bed. I don't care if they call it Omaha Hooterville Airfield. Bring on the international flights.

There are actual issues there preventing this and again, nothing is preventing scheduled flights from Canada (Toronto) right now other than a lack of demand.


Here is his post regarding international figures. Seems as though the information collected needs to be converted to PDEW by taking an annual statistic and dividing it out daily? Or whatever the reporting period would have been that provides international passenger information.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby NovakOmaha » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:11 pm

Let me address a single point.

In the post above mine there is a quote for some cities I would like to see service to. He is quoting, I assume, demand to particular cities.

Regarding such cities as PHL, BWI, JFK, Dulles, those are all gateways so demand to each as a final destination is irrelevant, or at least not totally relevant.

One more thing. Once and for all post a link to verify the numbers. I'm assuming it's public.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Ryan Air » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:18 pm

NovakOmaha wrote:Let me address a single point.

In the post above mine there is a quote for some cities I would like to see service to. He is quoting, I assume, demand to particular cities.

Regarding such cities as PHL, BWI, JFK, Dulles, those are all gateways so demand to each as a final destination is irrelevant, or at least not totally relevant.

One more thing. Once and for all post a link to verify the numbers. I'm assuming it's public.


Airlines do not use PDEW as the exclusive metric when deciding service expansion. I can assure you of this. Think of the complexity that exists with underwriting at a bank with regard to lending. Yes, FICO score is important. It tells a significant story relating to the process. But it's only part of the underwriting process. There are other factors heavily considered. In this analogy, FICO is PDEW.

The information is public- it is available on FAA website. I have seen information relating to it before. Pulling the data into excel from a specific city pair takes time. With the FAA website, you can take the data from different cities over a reporting period (to get the each way part) and divide by the days in the reporting period.

Now, I do not know if Mr Nuke is using an already formatted report with PDEW already calculated, or if it is one he created. If you want to test his numbers for a specific city, you can access the components of PDEW through reporting agencies and calculate it.

I think I may do this tonight or tomorrow, not because I don't trust him (he is exceptionally credible in my opinion)
But because I'd simply like to mess around with numbers and see what they can tell me.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Ryan Air » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:30 pm

NovakOmaha wrote:Let me address a single point.

In the post above mine there is a quote for some cities I would like to see service to. He is quoting, I assume, demand to particular cities.

Regarding such cities as PHL, BWI, JFK, Dulles, those are all gateways so demand to each as a final destination is irrelevant, or at least not totally relevant.

One more thing. Once and for all post a link to verify the numbers. I'm assuming it's public.


Sorry, Novak. I for the life of me cannot understand why my computer will not pull this:
https://www.transtats.bts.gov/Tables.as ... n%20Survey

I believe you pull traffic by market, from origin (OMA) to destination (IAH example), get the quarterly/monthly numbers desired, then go to origin (IAH example) with OMA as the destination for the same reporting period. You then add together and divide by days in the reporting period.

I provided one link to FAA and this is the other I have saved for other research. I can't open them

Could you (Novak) or somebody else take a look and see if what I'm sending is what I'm describing? I'm almost 100% sure it is

Thanks!

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Mr.Nuke » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:10 pm

Ryan Air wrote:Now, I do not know if Mr Nuke is using an already formatted report with PDEW already calculated, or if it is one he created. If you want to test his numbers for a specific city, you can access the components of PDEW through reporting agencies and calculate it.

I need to get caught up with this thread tonight. I'll post specific instructions on how to pull the data directly from the DOT (they are in this thread somewhere). The data I pull is from the DOT the only alterations I make are dividing the passenger numbers in half as they are presented as total passengers and then manually sorting the OMA-XYZ city pairs from most to least.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Mr.Nuke » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:41 pm

Omaha_corn_burner wrote:Are PDEW numbers an average?

Why are 29 people flying back and forth from Fort Myers each day? Meaning, what is the connection with Omaha?

EDIT: Maybe Mutual of Omaha?

As others successfully chimed in in my absence yes, it is an average. The data from the Department of Transportation is presented as average daily passengers between a given city pair. That is simply divided by two to get passengers daily each way (PDEW). So one of the obvious implications there for a given city pair in this case Omaha and Fort Myers is based on that data alone we don’t know if the number of people traveling from Omaha to Fort Myers equals the number of people coming from the opposite direction. Given there was a spike here though in Quarters 4, 1, and 2 my guess is that it is largely people from Omaha going down and coming back for the Winter and or vacations to a warmer destination.
OmahaJaysCU wrote:Those Milwaukee numbers amaze me considering a few years ago we had 2 airlines routing multiple flights per day there. I get that wasn't necessarily their final destination but still.

Amazing good or amazing bad? What is sort of crazy to think about to me is the PDEW in the early 2000s and even later that decade when you had two airlines serving the route typically hovered between 35-55. So not unlike Minneapolis the flights were being driven by connecting passengers.
OmahaJaysCU wrote:Also those San Diego and Boston numbers.......

San Diego starts at the end of the month and we need to find a carrier to do Boston. From Boston's end Eppley was the 6th highest Q4 PDEW without a direct flight (86) behind San Antonio (150), Norfolk (144, and starting with Delta soon), Memphis (108), Albuquerque (102), and Louisville (96).
Omaha_corn_burner wrote:Oh, I get it. I'm asking where the international destinations are. London, Paris, or some south American destinations should be up there for international destinations.

We have the PDEW data that we do because every quarter the department of transportation randomly samples 10% of the domestic tickets. To get equal data to that for international travel, we’d need every foreign government to being the same thing. The U.S. DB1B process is largely a holdover from airline regulations and foreign governments simply don’t collect the data that the Department of Transit does.
Ryan Air wrote:Here is his post regarding international figures. Seems as though the information collected needs to be converted to PDEW by taking an annual statistic and dividing it out daily? Or whatever the reporting period would have been that provides international passenger information.

So yeah this was the best compromise. Brookings in 2012 published their data where the aggregated data from SABRE (one of the largest airline booking/travel agent booking, etc. software databases) with DOT T-100 data to come up with what I posted. https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/ ... n-america/

For Omaha, and many other major metro areas you can see what they determined the top 200 destinations to be along with estimated yearly passengers to and from those destinations. To convert into PDEW, I took their annual passenger numbers and divided by 365 to get daily passengers (what the DOT reports domestically) and again divided that number by 2 to convert to PDEW.
Last edited by Mr.Nuke on Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Omaha Eppley Airfield

Postby Mr.Nuke » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:53 pm

Ryan Air wrote:
Sorry, Novak. I for the life of me cannot understand why my computer will not pull this:
https://www.transtats.bts.gov/Tables.as ... n%20Survey

I believe you pull traffic by market, from origin (OMA) to destination (IAH example), get the quarterly/monthly numbers desired, then go to origin (IAH example) with OMA as the destination for the same reporting period. You then add together and divide by days in the reporting period.

I provided one link to FAA and this is the other I have saved for other research. I can't open them

Could you (Novak) or somebody else take a look and see if what I'm sending is what I'm describing? I'm almost 100% sure it is

Thanks!

You correctly linked the DB1B. The DB1B is a quarterly random sample of 10% of U.S. domestic passenger tickets. It has three tables: ticket, market, and coupons. I have never been able to get excel to open the files and even if it did I’d still need a program like Access to combine the tables into a meaningful database. If you could it would show you all of the itineraries for say OMA-MIA or MIA-OMA, where people connected, what they paid, etc.

The good news is the DOT summarizes the information for all city pairs that average more than 10 total one way passengers between them daily. That information can be found here. https://www.transportation.gov/policy/a ... are-report

Tables 6 and 1A are the most valuable. Table 6 lists every city pair meeting the 10 total daily average one way passenger criteria. Table 1A breaks down city pairs into individual airports. So if you want to see how many passengers are going to/from Omaha to New York via Newark vs. LaGuardia vs. JFK or Chicago via MDW or ORD, etc. you can do it there. Again, the passenger data in those charts is one-way passenger trips per day. To convert to PDEW that number needs to be divided by two (and as opposed to what you hypothesized above given the data is presented this way you don't need to look for the opposite pair i.e. the DOT is combining OMA-IAH and IAH-OMA already for you). The last thing to note is that if you are going to sort or filter either table Omaha is listed in both the first and second city columns depending on the city pair so you need to look in both places.


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