Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Uffda · Post by **Uffda** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:57 am

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Consumers can expect retail gas prices to rise to $4 a gallon in the near future, a pricing analyst said Wednesday.

"There's no question gas will hit $4 a gallon," Ben Brockwell, director of pricing at the Oil Price Information Service, said. "The question is how high will it go and how long will it last?"

I think I am going to stay home a lot more.

OmahaJaysCU · Post by **OmahaJaysCU** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:09 pm

Anyone notice lately that the Public Pulse has been having one person writing about the benefits of light rail almost daily. Maybe light rail could have more popularity than we thought.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:04 pm

There have been several updates to Omaha Streetcar:

A draft brochure: http://www.omahastreetcar.com/Brochure.doc

And a summary of the lessons learned from the 2005 Rail~Volution conference: http://www.omahastreetcar.com/Rail~Volution%202005.doc

Also, we are currently considering having our first membership meeting in the Old Market in late October or early November and will announce that by the end of this month.

Let me know if you have any thoughts and as always, if you would like to help by joining us!

cosmoguy · Post by **cosmoguy** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:39 pm

In Austin they just passed the commuter rail n combination with rapid buses. They actually have free transportation for the whole city on days when the pollution is bad, and their monthly fee is only $15 a month!! It costs $.50 each ride otherwise. They are EXtREMELY proactive and have a 20 year plan. Their first attempts at passing this were not successful, but people warmed up to it.

Blazepaw · Post by **Blazepaw** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:05 pm

Wow, sounds like Austin is really planning for the future. Omaha is less than likely to embrace such a plan sadly.

I think the Omaha - Lincoln metro areas should be more proactive with it's mass transit system.

I am however a huge fan of the street car plan. Great to hear it's moving along.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:08 pm

I have actually been working on the Austin commuter rail project for the past year.

Blazepaw - thanks, we appreciate your support!

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:46 pm

I am happy to announce our first membership meeting, the Streetcar Plenary. It will be on Wednesday, November 2, 2005, from 6:00-7:30 PM at Spaghetti Works in the Old Market. The only cost is dinner at Spaghetti Works.

Our featured speakers include:
Charlie Hales, Vice President of Transit Planning for HDR;
Hal Daub, former Mayor of Omaha; and
Tawanna Black, Executive Director of Destination Midtown.

Please see our newsletter for more information:
http://www.omahastreetcar.com/Topics9-30-2005.pdf

Since attendace is limited to this event, please reserve at:
omahastreetcar@gmail.com

Hope to see you there!

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:29 am

Those are some impressive speakers!!

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:02 am

Well, you know, nothing but the best!

reddomaha · Post by **reddomaha** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:37 am

I only lived in Portland for two years, unfortunately, and my thing I miss most it the light rail and rail cars. Riding to the station in the morning, hopping on the light rail, with my mountain bike than riding the rest of the way to work once we got through the mountain on Burnside St. Kinda of weird but, hey! save a lot on gas.

As a home plan designer, taking permits down for customers, riding a light rail or rail car would be great, no risk of a parking ticket because i don't have any loose change.

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:13 pm

well its really a nice site Zephyr!

just thinking out loud here. I'm wondering if informal serveys at Omaha's larger employers(FDR, Mutual, Con Agra, UP etc.) would garner support from employees fed up with gas prices. Would strong support from such employees carry any weight with securing more federal funds?

the1wags · Post by **the1wags** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:09 pm

Good question Nebport5, I wonder what it would take to get some kind of survey set up. Maybe the World Herald could run some kind of survey regarding public transportation.

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:43 am

another thought, after riding UPs commuter line in Chicago I wonder how much of the existing lines in Omaha could be effectively used for the sake of infrastructure costs.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:18 pm

I am trying to develop a proposal to present to the Omaha Streetcar group for the November 2 meeting and am trying to decide on a Phase 2 corridor. Here's what I have for now:

My main goal with phase 2 is to connect Creighton and North Downtown, but how to do this while tying in with the existing system? And also, a connection south to Rosenblatt and the Zoo could be part of phase 2 - what do you think?

Ultimately, after approval by the group members, a map like this would be put on the website and the concept would be advanced for the demonstration line proposal.

Let me know your thoughts!

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:34 pm

That's a good idea. Especially since 10th st is such a high traffic area. Imagine all the people going to a concert or sporting event at Qwest and seeing streetcars driving by. That would surely up the ridership numbers.

jsheets · Post by **jsheets** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:45 pm

I think connecting the Qwest and North Downtown is very vital to the growth of a streetcar system. A link to the CWS/Zoo/Botanical Gardens is a great idea too, as I think it would spur re-interest in the area between I-80 and the Old Market, but it would probably only be profitable during the timeframe around the CWS. It would be a great tourist draw though.

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:50 pm

Zephyr wrote:I am trying to develop a proposal to present to the Omaha Streetcar group for the November 2 meeting and am trying to decide on a Phase 2 corridor. Here's what I have for now:

My main goal with phase 2 is to connect Creighton and North Downtown, but how to do this while tying in with the existing system? And also, a connection south to Rosenblatt and the Zoo could be part of phase 2 - what do you think?

Ultimately, after approval by the group members, a map like this would be put on the website and the concept would be advanced for the demonstration line proposal.

Let me know your thoughts!

I don't mean to sound stupid, but what is the goal for phase 1?

I love the idea of connecting the Near North Side and Zoo/Rosenblatt. And I love the idea of Creighton connecting to DT. A Tourists could stay in a hotel downtown and get from the north side to the zoo area without taxis or rental cars etc. Along those same lines it would be nice if a line ran by Joslyn, the Performing Arts Center/Leahy Mall.

I guess I do not understand why the main 2 parts of phase 1 line are a block away from each other(Farnam and Harney). Why not run part of the line down Howard St.(the quintessential Old Market street)?

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:10 pm

Thanks for your thoughts, jsheets and Swift.

Nebport5, to see Phase 1 discussed, go here:
http://www.eomaha.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2558

The idea of the one-way couplets a block apart from each other is popular for streetcar routes like Portland and Seattle, and even downtown light rail alignments like in Minneapolis, Houston, Denver, Portland, and Columbus. This just works better with one-way streets so the systems mix with traffic better. As a plus, it spreads the alignment out a little more to broaden the access for people.

the1wags · Post by **the1wags** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:34 pm

Heres my 2 cents and/or ideas.

I think that this has a better chance of going forward (light rail in general) if it builds upon the momentum of happenings DT. That being said, I'd really like to see something like this blue line constructed. From the NE corner of the Hilton/front door of the Qwest, running south on/along 10th, then cut under 480 and diagonal through the Swanson site (lavender area) to 11th. Then down 11th through the GLM on my proposed bridge. the heart of the Old Market to Jackson. Then jog back over to 10th and go down to the Durham.

My reasons are these, developers would be foaming at the mouth to get a piece of the action for the Swanson site and also that awful parking lot at 11th and Capitol (Brown area) that has been talked about on here. Secondly 11th runs through the heart of the OM and I think it would get more riders there. Also, this leaves most of 10th open to vehicle traffic, 11th street, with its brick, is slower and more suited to something like a trolley system IMO.

The other color lines could be additions to where you have spoke of the lines going, all of those being great ideas. North extention into North DT and to Creighton, West extention out to UNMC/midtown and south line going to Rosenblatt/Zoo/south omaha. The only change I would suggest there is going down 13th street. Catch people wanting to ride to shows at Sokal and also the area around the Bohiemian (sp?) Cafe would boom I think with the addition of a light rail/trolley.

Well thats about it for now, just my opinion about it. Hope it gets the gears going.

At any rate I think any sort of system like this can be nothing but good for Omaha and is exciting to ponder.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:38 am

Good ideas, the1wags. That is an interesting concept along 11th - a new bridge would need to be constructed on 10th accross the Mall for a streetcar, so why not build a new bridge at 11th that is also a pedestrian connection? And good point about 13th Street - that is better suited for a streetcar than 10th (wider, not as steep grades) and serves a better business district. Another idea is to have the line go down 10th, past the Durham and Burlington, then jog over to 13th on Pacific and use it as a catalyst to redevlop the Post Office site.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:08 am

One thing I think about line one thoug: on the outbound route, I think it should go north at 40th st one block to dodge, then go west another block before turning south. Everything else the same. I think it would be important for it to intersect dodge st at some point. It's not too hard to imagine dodge with some below ground lightrail transportation and thus 40th st could become an inportant crossover point.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:29 am

I like it, Eric.

Connecting the line out to UNO could also be part of phase 2, or maybe just phase 3.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:38 am

Good idea, Swift.

And Aaron, I completely forgot about the UNO/Ak-Sar-Ben connection when drawing the map - after all, that's in the Midtown plan as Phase 2! Perhaps we could have the first phase solidly identified, then general corridors noted on a map going west, north, and south.

I'll try to get a more professional looking map out by tomorrow.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:02 pm

Eric-

As lazy as Americans are getting, is there some sort of psychological comfort zone that people are willing to walk?

For example: say the closest train stop to First National is 5 blocks away. Now for people who aren't used to taking a train and walking even that much, and who would eventually have to do it in bad weather (this is Nebraska), is there a certain point where they would rather take the car?

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:46 pm

DShawn - generally you can figure most people will walk 3 blocks - a 5-minute, 1/4-mile distance from a station. This is the "sweet spot" radius around a station, and has been tried and true in many cities. Hey, even people in Dallas, with all the humidity and car lovers, accept this.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:48 pm

Here is a new map - sorry for the large size, but it's supposed to be an 11X17.
It's amazing what a little Mac and Adobe Illustrator can do - better than Paintbrush!

What do you think??

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:11 am

Looks good! I actually spent a few hours drawing up an extensive light rail system based off of the one SF has (the MUNI). The MUNI trains run under Market St (which would be SF's Dodge St.) and then eventually they all become streetcars. I sort of was imagining the same thing for this map.

This is why I made that comment about the first line crossing Dodge, because I've always imagined that someday there will be butt-loads of rail tranist runnning up and down Dodge (like this).

This is assuming that the Omaha-Lincoln rail line uses the UP tracks.

Also, this was just for my amusement.

We'll call it "phase 3"

Full size image here (it's huge): http://images14.fotki.com/v220/fileawZp ... itled1.jpg

Ofcourse I don't really know anything about mass-transit (other than what I've learned from studying maps). In fact this was more of an excercize in procrastination than anything else.

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:44 am

That looks nice, Zephyr. Its hard being patient and not say 'why not do this and add that, run a line to Creighton, UNMC, Eppley etc, etc', but I have to tell myself you know what you're doing and that this is a first step in a series of many baby steps. Thanks for all your hard work.

jsheets · Post by **jsheets** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:14 am

Todd n Tyler mentioned omahastreetcar.com this morning, and your upcoming city meeting. They even discussed their own ideals of a lightrail running from downtown to village point. Say what you will about TnT, but they have a large audience in this town...

Zephyr/Streets, you should call them up and get an interview going on air! Travis has mentioned the concepts before on tv too, so I think you could have a good discussion for a great word-spreading opportunity.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:09 am

I agree with jsheets!

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:18 pm

Nice map, Swift - those are good connections for phase 3!

Tuna, I'm Zephyr, not Coyote - or maybe you meant Swift?

Thanks for the tip, jsheets. That would explain the influx of email we recieved this morning!! We need to hire an intern.

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:53 pm

Zephyr,

looks like a great start(with my limited knowledge of light rail)

a few questions pop up...

On the 10th St. strech between the Pierce facility and Harney/Farnam are you running two lines side by side or is this capable of running both north and south?

Is it too early to have any thinking on where stops would occure along phase 1?

Also I was wondering if any thought has been given(for a future phase) of running a line off of phase 1 to the Dundee area(or maybe even Benson)?

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:21 pm

Zephyr wrote:Nice map, Swift - those are good connections for phase 3!

Tuna, I'm Zephyr, not Coyote - or maybe you meant Swift?

Thanks for the tip, jsheets. That would explain the influx of email we recieved this morning!! We need to hire an intern.

Oh for pete's sake. I must've gone to bed waaay to late last night.

Yes I meant, you Zephyr.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:52 pm

Just wanted to remind everyone about the First Annual Streetcar Plenary on Wednesday, November 2. It will run from 6:00-7:30 PM at the Spaghetti Works in the Old Market. Pasta dinner menu will be offered for $10.99.

Our speakers will include former mayor Hal Daub and Tawanna Black with Destination Midtown. We will also have a speaker from a consulting firm talk about modern streetcars and the current projects across the country. This speaker is yet to be confirmed.

If you plan on attending, please reserve your spot by sending an email to:
omahastreetcar@gmail.com

This information is also available at http://www.omahastreetcar.com

Let me know if you have any questions!

Harpoon · Post by **Harpoon** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:27 am

Isn't the streetcar guy from Portland speaking at the event as well?

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:49 pm

^ Right you are. Unfortunately, Charlie Hales had to cancel speaking to the group, but the Streering Committee is lining up another consultant to give a streetcar presentation. I'll let you know who this is when I hear about it.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:17 am

Meeting to gauge streetcar desire

redfield · Post by **redfield** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:26 pm

Everytime I hear talk of a streetcar system, one of the first destinations or potential stops that comes to my mind is the airport.

With the airport so close to downtown it just seems obvious, but I've never heard it mentioned in any of the proposals.

Is passing through Iowa the issue? There has to be a way to work around it if so...

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:31 pm

redfield wrote:Everytime I hear talk of a streetcar system, one of the first destinations or potential stops that comes to my mind is the airport.

With the airport so close to downtown it just seems obvious, but I've never heard it mentioned in any of the proposals.

Is passing through Iowa the issue? There has to be a way to work around it if so...

That’s an awesome thought, imagine a terminal at the airport that says connection to QCO, hotels, downtown and old market/shopping etc.

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:00 pm

redfield wrote:Everytime I hear talk of a streetcar system, one of the first destinations or potential stops that comes to my mind is the airport.

With the airport so close to downtown it just seems obvious, but I've never heard it mentioned in any of the proposals.

Is passing through Iowa the issue? There has to be a way to work around it if so...

Zephyr addressed the issue in another thread.....

http://www.eomaha.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2558

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