Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Trains, Planes, and Automobiles (and Streetcars!).

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby GRANDPASMUCKER » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:35 am

Hal Daub flopped on Ricks Boathouse leaving us with a mess to clean up and now were supposed to have trust and confidence in him having anything to do with a billion dollar streetcar project. Thats insanity. :no:

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby iamjacobm » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:25 pm

Coyote wrote:
iamjacobm wrote:
Coyote wrote:I just talked with Hal Daub about the streetcars, and he mentioned in two months time a report will be out... there will be light rail on Farnam from 10th to the Med Center. He talked about KC, and the $5B of investment along the line...


Did he mean report as in a new study or report like, its happening?


I asked him if this was Heritage and he said no, but it sounded like this was now a done deal. Second line would be the airport, third would be 24th St and then 10th St to the Zoo.


Hmm interesting thanks for sharing. Fascinated to see how they propose funding this.

The 24th street spur is really interesting too. If it actually reaches into north or south O it would really be a notable transit move IMO. Most cities our size generally put their streetcar in the wealthier areas. Just imagine how much impact it would have for a line to run from 24th and Lake to South 24th St where a lot of people use transit out of necessity instead of luxury like a line from DT to UNMC will certainly be.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby Omaha Cowboy » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:25 pm

Coyote wrote:
iamjacobm wrote:
Coyote wrote:I just talked with Hal Daub about the streetcars, and he mentioned in two months time a report will be out... there will be light rail on Farnam from 10th to the Med Center. He talked about KC, and the $5B of investment along the line...


Did he mean report as in a new study or report like, its happening?


I asked him if this was Heritage and he said no, but it sounded like this was now a done deal. Second line would be the airport, third would be 24th St and then 10th St to the Zoo.


I'll be VERY curious and interested to see if this shakes out...

Ciao..LiO...Peace
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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby OmahaJaysCU » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:02 pm

I've heard foundation money is mostly in place and it will receive large contributions from employers positively effected by this route (easy to guess). This is closer to reality than is public.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby choke » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:16 pm

This has probably already been posted but a reminder nonetheless:

Decades after the idea, Omaha streetcar proposal edges closer to reality


http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/decades-after-the-idea-omaha-streetcar-proposal-edges-closer-to/article_517b4eb9-baea-5ca7-80cf-1d85602067a4.html

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby NEDodger » Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:54 am

iamjacobm wrote: Just imagine how much impact it would have for a line to run from 24th and Lake to South 24th St where a lot of people use transit out of necessity instead of luxury like a line from DT to UNMC will certainly be.


Probably the exact same impact that the bus line that's there now has.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby Dundeemaha » Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:25 pm

NEDodger wrote:
iamjacobm wrote: Just imagine how much impact it would have for a line to run from 24th and Lake to South 24th St where a lot of people use transit out of necessity instead of luxury like a line from DT to UNMC will certainly be.


Probably the exact same impact that the bus line that's there now has.


Less even, though imagine how much it would help people with real transit needs to spend some of the hundreds of millions on buses and drivers.

This would help encourage development and drive them out of their homes though so it's got that going for it. Plus I'm sure Kiewit, UNMC, Mutual, HDR, etc will make tons of money on TIF financed new development.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby choke » Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:07 pm

“Lightttttttt raillllllll”

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby Busguy2010 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:46 am

Daub, if not confused, has caused a lot of confusion as to the difference between light rail and Streetcar.

This Farnam streetcar is a perfect example of what a streetcar really is: A rail vehicle that stops every few blocks and travels in mixed traffic, in an urban area. Streetcars by nature tend to be a little slow... They aren't meant to be a solution to traffic congestion at all in this day and age. There was a time when streetcars were the best way to get around and that's why most every city of good size had a system. That was before the automobile came around. With two lanes, the Farnam route will work because it will not cause congestion to other modes of transportation

On the contrary, 24th street in particular is a bad candidate for a streetcar. In the past, 24th Street was a major streetcar route because it was the best way for people to get around. Today, 24th street is a major north-south route that will eventually be reduced to one lane in each direction. With just automobile traffic, this is fine, but adding a streetcar to the equation will cause major lines of cars stuck behind the streetcar. Additionally, a streetcar will influence no ridership along 24th street because it will be inefficient compared to Route 24.

My point is we shouldn't build streetcar routes along long stretches of one lane road with no opportunity to pass, or where they will provide a slower service than the bus that already serves the road. On another point, what good is a streetcar that goes from the airport to downtown when after that, it goes nowhere else in a timely manner? Once you add the airport to the conversation, you're talking about high speed transit. Anybody that rides from the airport on a 55 mph train that turns into a 25 mph streetcar would be better served to transfer to a bus at that point.

The two modes shouldn't be mixed in one system. When you try to make a streetcar system "kinda sorta" into a pseudo light rail system, you rob the city the opportunity to build an actual, respectable form of mass transit. Streetcars have a place in this city's future, but are not a viable solution to mass transit.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby iamjacobm » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:53 pm

image.png
Haha. Well maybe all the studies were saying 2030 was a good time?
image.png (95.58 KiB) Viewed 1581 times

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby Dundeemaha » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:17 pm

Depending on your perspective that says we won't be doing it any time soon or that we're starting right now.

It's taking 6 years to put in 14 BRT stops, it would probably take 10 years to build a street car route if we started today.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby MTO » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:03 pm

It's a pretty safe bet to go with the BRT option and just forget about light rail for now. This is omaha we do small if at all.
15-17, 26, 32

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby almighty_tuna » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:16 pm

Used to be very bullish on this. Now, I don't see anything happening. I look at the investment in denver (yep, head there often) at the light rail they are implementing and see what we will never have. Best we will get is a token (no pun intended) streetcar between downtown/midtown, brt will flounder, we build more road infrastructure. call me pessimistic, whatever. the balking which occurred at the west dodge expressway would pale in comparison to a proper line and nobody has the political cahones or corporate philanthropy & benefits program (think subsidized fares instead of parking) to see this through. Furthermore, with Noddle facilitating major corporate buildouts from Aksarben Village to west Omaha there wont be enough employment density in one area to really make it monetarily viable. Even if you could take advantage of current railways and strike a deal with the freight carriers, you're going from Durham/KETV down along I-80 and near Oakview to Village Point, last stop Elkhorn. That's minimum investment. There needs to be way more serious talk about a commitment to the next 50 years in not only terms of non-auto transportation to go hand in hand with an equally large major employment strategy to even start reserving websites at this point. Omaha will forever pretend like it's making transportation strides. Meanwhile, I'll be flying into DIA and taking the train to friends in Arvada.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby almighty_tuna » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:56 pm

Furthermore, the NDOR spends roughly $840M per year (figures from nov 2015) on:

- Maintenance: $150M
- Construction: $600M
- Support & Administration: $56M
- Other (including rail): $35M

Compare that to a 2015 operating budget of $466M for RTD. Granted, this is not a rail system in its infancy. However, if you still look at the big picture, RTD's annual expenditure is half...HALF...of the entire NDOR 2015 dollars. Forget anything else spent by CDOT on its highways, freeways, maintenance; break it down by thousands per mile. I dare you. Not only can the Omaha area not absorb a $200M yearly operating budget for a small light rail system there's no way it will be able to spend (nor get the rest of rural nebraska to permit via state legislature spending) $68 million per mile to just build the system.

Nope. Light rail isn't going to happen in the Omaha area. The best, and maximum, we would ever get is some sort of Eppley/Downtown rail service. Streetcars would be a good start but I'll believe that when I pay my fare and take a ride. In which case I'm buying some beers if I still live in the metro.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby choke » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:59 pm

Omaha metro isn't even at million people yet. Omaha will never be a Denver, Chicago, Dallas, etc. but it is a city that continues to grow. I am fond of living here with or without light rail. When there is a demand for light rail in Omaha, it'll be built. Although, a mini-light rail system would be pretty sweet.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby almighty_tuna » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:22 pm

Everything you say is true, I can't refute it. However, it perpetuates the little city that could. I'm fond of living here, too. It's a great town! Its greatest contribution to the national society will be the arts, where its greatest philanthropy lies. And I happen to be a big fan of the arts.

But if we're going to start talking streetcars and light rail then we need to have this conversation with our big boy panties on. That means "oh, well we're growing and by golly gosh we'll get there" isn't exactly going to cut it. Find an Omaha politician who is willing to stake their career on the transportation and economic future of Omaha. Take your time, I've got a few beers standing by.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby nativeomahan » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:23 pm

almighty_tuna wrote:Used to be very bullish on this. Now, I don't see anything happening. I look at the investment in denver (yep, head there often) at the light rail they are implementing and see what we will never have. Best we will get is a token (no pun intended) streetcar between downtown/midtown, brt will flounder, we build more road infrastructure. call me pessimistic, whatever. the balking which occurred at the west dodge expressway would pale in comparison to a proper line and nobody has the political cahones or corporate philanthropy & benefits program (think subsidized fares instead of parking) to see this through. Furthermore, with Noddle facilitating major corporate buildouts from Aksarben Village to west Omaha there wont be enough employment density in one area to really make it monetarily viable. Even if you could take advantage of current railways and strike a deal with the freight carriers, you're going from Durham/KETV down along I-80 and near Oakview to Village Point, last stop Elkhorn. That's minimum investment. There needs to be way more serious talk about a commitment to the next 50 years in not only terms of non-auto transportation to go hand in hand with an equally large major employment strategy to even start reserving websites at this point. Omaha will forever pretend like it's making transportation strides. Meanwhile, I'll be flying into DIA and taking the train to friends in Arvada.


Is the light rail from DIA into downtown operational now? That's would be awesome, as airfares to Denver are cheap, but there hasn't been a cheap and easy way from the airport all the way into downtown. If light rail is operational I can see me booking a trip soon to Denver, as the 16th Street mall is a wonderful tourist destination.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby almighty_tuna » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:25 pm

nativeomahan wrote:Is the light rail from DIA into downtown operational now? That's would be awesome, as airfares to Denver are cheap, but there hasn't been a cheap and easy way from the airport all the way into downtown. If light rail is operational I can see me booking a trip soon to Denver, as the 16th Street mall is a wonderful tourist destination.


Yes it is.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby Uffda » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:22 pm

nativeomahan wrote:
Is the light rail from DIA into downtown operational now? That's would be awesome, as airfares to Denver are cheap, but there hasn't been a cheap and easy way from the airport all the way into downtown. If light rail is operational I can see me booking a trip soon to Denver, as the 16th Street mall is a wonderful tourist destination.


Yes I rode it from DIA to Union Station at the end of June. From there you can catch different or rails.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby Busguy2010 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:10 am

I really appreciate the discussion on the topic! The long range transportation plan vaguely identifies a Light Rail Transit route along Dodge in 2040. Kind of a cool mention, but that means nothing.

Denver's transportation system is the greatest in modern US history and is what every city should strive to achieve. Will Omaha ever have something so comprehensive? No. I am absolutely confident of that. The cost of these rail systems is everything, especially in this city. Omaha was built on streetcars, and we should embrace that given the recent reinvestment in our core areas. It should happen soon as all these developments we have been so excited about would be that much more impressive because there's a streetcar route nearby. Hopefully it happens before all the prime locations are already filled in. I am confident Omaha will not pass on the opportunity to build a streetcar route.

After that happens, who knows what we will get. Honestly, Omaha is not a city interested in mass transit solutions to traffic congestion. Public transit use in Omaha is on the rise, but we still just have a bus system. In two years we will have our first ever shot at a mass transit system. It remains to be seen who will ride it and what affect it will have on development. Once we see how the BRT is received by the masses, we will be able to better gauge interest in further solutions such as light rail or commuter rail.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby bigredmed » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:39 pm

Our city could do streetcars, and did do them when the city was a hub and spoke structure. It has evolved into a less centralized structure. Streetcars worked great when the streetcar burbs of Minne Lisa, Dundee, and Benson were filled with families who left their communities to go downtown. But not very often to go to one another area.

In Denver, you have a large core area and a bunch of smaller areas that feed into the center. We have people who work at UNMC and live in Gretna, but increasingly people who work at more than one place and don't have time in their day to wait on an inefficient mass transit system.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby mcarch » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:41 am

Busguy2010 wrote:I really appreciate the discussion on the topic! The long range transportation plan vaguely identifies a Light Rail Transit route along Dodge in 2040. Kind of a cool mention, but that means nothing.

Denver's transportation system is the greatest in modern US history and is what every city should strive to achieve. Will Omaha ever have something so comprehensive? No. I am absolutely confident of that. The cost of these rail systems is everything, especially in this city. Omaha was built on streetcars, and we should embrace that given the recent reinvestment in our core areas. It should happen soon as all these developments we have been so excited about would be that much more impressive because there's a streetcar route nearby. Hopefully it happens before all the prime locations are already filled in. I am confident Omaha will not pass on the opportunity to build a streetcar route.

After that happens, who knows what we will get. Honestly, Omaha is not a city interested in mass transit solutions to traffic congestion. Public transit use in Omaha is on the rise, but we still just have a bus system. In two years we will have our first ever shot at a mass transit system. It remains to be seen who will ride it and what affect it will have on development. Once we see how the BRT is received by the masses, we will be able to better gauge interest in further solutions such as light rail or commuter rail.


I'm not against streetcars, but saying that we should only have streetcars because of Omaha's history with them seems to be backwards thinking. Chicago had streetcars, as did many other cities.

Cities with Light rail still have hub and spokes. There's are just further away from the center. I can see one day, a light rail system operating on Dodge. Maybe one to Bellevue, and if Omaha ever grows north, possibly a route that direction. If the city keeps growing west there will be a huge issue with taking Dodge during rush hour. Over the past 5 years I have seen a difference on Dodge. Anymore, it doesn't matter what time of day; traffic is always heavy (unless there are just more stupid people driving slow in the left lane).

The only thing the city can do is possibly add another lane to dodge without having to retrofit the bridges, but anymore than that, there are certain bridges that would have to be expanded to allow for more lanes to travel underneath, 156th street as an example. Then the city is also planning on allowing 150th Street to be more connected to dodge with the new development in Boys Town. This will cause more traffic congestion. I solely believe, that there should be an exit ONLY every mile. 1/2 miles should be taken out, except the Boys Town exit.

As the city grows and Dodge becomes so congested (congested 1+ hour to get downtown on a normal weather day) that Pacific/Blond/Maple Street becomes a faster alternative the below should happen. I say 1+ hour as Omahans wont sit in traffic for 1+ hours. I know I wouldn't.

An elevated rail should be built over dodge, stopping possibly every mile or two. I would suggest from the west to east: End of line 204th, 180th, 168th, 144th, 132nd, 114th, 102/Regency Parkway/Westroads, 90th, 84th, 72nd, UNO, Dundee, Med Center, Midtown, and just like Minneapolis the light rail would turn into a streetcar with its own dedicated line and would continue on other stops until it reaches downtown. At each of the stops in West Omaha, there would be smaller parking garages so that people would leave their car and get on the rail.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby HR Paperstacks » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:46 am

And I have been seeing some pretty bad congestion on I-80 as well. It's not very uncommon to see 80 east back up 72nd to 680 during the evening commute. When I used to come across a backup in the past, it was always due to an accident. More and more there is no accident - just traffic.

And I agree about the half-mile exits on Dodge. Boys Town and 150th need to go.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby Dseidholz » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:46 am

We may be closer than anyone thinks

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby Dundeemaha » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:12 pm

I have no real problem with adding a streetcar from UNMC/Mutual to wherever, so long as it's billed as what it is. A public subsidy to private property developers to encourage growth in the property tax base. As such I would hope that some form of turnback tax and/or restriction of TIF use adjacent to its run is implemented in tandem.

Don't call this thing mass transit and attempt to run it on user fees as if it's anything like a commuter rail system or even bus transit system.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby bigredmed » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:22 pm

Dundeemaha wrote:I have no real problem with adding a streetcar from UNMC/Mutual to wherever, so long as it's billed as what it is. A public subsidy to private property developers to encourage growth in the property tax base. As such I would hope that some form of turnback tax and/or restriction of TIF use adjacent to its run is implemented in tandem.

Don't call this thing mass transit and attempt to run it on user fees as if it's anything like a commuter rail system or even bus transit system.


Yep. I would build a Metro pick up close by so people could ride a bus. Frankly, I would skip the street cars and just use buses.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby choke » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:52 am

The development community wants it (at least midtown developers) but there seems to be no consensus on how to do it. Stothert and Mellow both are for it. Sharp contrast to when Hal was mayor.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby Coyote » Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:03 am

choke wrote:The development community wants it (at least midtown developers) but there seems to be no consensus on how to do it. Stothert and Mellow both are for it. Sharp contrast to when Hal was mayor.


Hal Daub was and is a leading supporter for streetcars.

Greenslate owners (Lund and Dwyer) and Blackstone developers said that they are closer than ever to making this happen, and it is still down to finances, but they said from the Ballpark to the new development at the Med Center (the old ball bearing plant) would be logical terminals.
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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby Busguy2010 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:38 am

mcarch wrote:
Busguy2010 wrote:I really appreciate the discussion on the topic! The long range transportation plan vaguely identifies a Light Rail Transit route along Dodge in 2040. Kind of a cool mention, but that means nothing.

Denver's transportation system is the greatest in modern US history and is what every city should strive to achieve. Will Omaha ever have something so comprehensive? No. I am absolutely confident of that. The cost of these rail systems is everything, especially in this city. Omaha was built on streetcars, and we should embrace that given the recent reinvestment in our core areas. It should happen soon as all these developments we have been so excited about would be that much more impressive because there's a streetcar route nearby. Hopefully it happens before all the prime locations are already filled in. I am confident Omaha will not pass on the opportunity to build a streetcar route.

After that happens, who knows what we will get. Honestly, Omaha is not a city interested in mass transit solutions to traffic congestion. Public transit use in Omaha is on the rise, but we still just have a bus system. In two years we will have our first ever shot at a mass transit system. It remains to be seen who will ride it and what affect it will have on development. Once we see how the BRT is received by the masses, we will be able to better gauge interest in further solutions such as light rail or commuter rail.


I'm not against streetcars, but saying that we should only have streetcars because of Omaha's history with them seems to be backwards thinking. Chicago had streetcars, as did many other cities.

Cities with Light rail still have hub and spokes. There's are just further away from the center. I can see one day, a light rail system operating on Dodge. Maybe one to Bellevue, and if Omaha ever grows north, possibly a route that direction. If the city keeps growing west there will be a huge issue with taking Dodge during rush hour. Over the past 5 years I have seen a difference on Dodge. Anymore, it doesn't matter what time of day; traffic is always heavy (unless there are just more stupid people driving slow in the left lane).

The only thing the city can do is possibly add another lane to dodge without having to retrofit the bridges, but anymore than that, there are certain bridges that would have to be expanded to allow for more lanes to travel underneath, 156th street as an example. Then the city is also planning on allowing 150th Street to be more connected to dodge with the new development in Boys Town. This will cause more traffic congestion. I solely believe, that there should be an exit ONLY every mile. 1/2 miles should be taken out, except the Boys Town exit.

As the city grows and Dodge becomes so congested (congested 1+ hour to get downtown on a normal weather day) that Pacific/Blond/Maple Street becomes a faster alternative the below should happen. I say 1+ hour as Omahans wont sit in traffic for 1+ hours. I know I wouldn't.

An elevated rail should be built over dodge, stopping possibly every mile or two. I would suggest from the west to east: End of line 204th, 180th, 168th, 144th, 132nd, 114th, 102/Regency Parkway/Westroads, 90th, 84th, 72nd, UNO, Dundee, Med Center, Midtown, and just like Minneapolis the light rail would turn into a streetcar with its own dedicated line and would continue on other stops until it reaches downtown. At each of the stops in West Omaha, there would be smaller parking garages so that people would leave their car and get on the rail.


I used to believe we should have a streetcar system and a light rail system. I have always pointed out the practical advantages of light rail over streetcar, and have posted many variations for a useful and realistic (as it gets) light rail and commuter rail system for this city. Simply rebuilding our lost streetcar system as it was would be inefficient and couldn't compete with the other transportation options we have in this age. Our city's past is a basis for which we could plan a streetcar system. It only makes sense, since the densest parts of our city are still the ones that were built around our historic streetcar system. Having said that, we should only focus on the densest parts. Farnam is the best of just a few routes I can think of that would make any sense for Omaha's future.

I think we can have a streetcar system, but it will be limited compared to our old one. It should only cover short runs in our densest areas. This Farnam route is the backbone. After that, I could only realistically see extensions to Dundee, Park Avenue, and South 10th. And this is a big as our system should be with the current makeup of the city.

On the light rail note, thats almost exactly the idea I had posted around different forums over the past 5 years. I disagree that a light rail train should turn into a streetcar at any point during its trip. A good light rail system should be able to travel freely at top speeds during the entirety of the route. At the very most, the light rail train could operate at a slower speed (maybe 35mph...) in a designated right of way with limited at grade crossings in the downtown portion. A good example of how to do it correctly is the Welton street portion of Denver's D line

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Re: Blackstone Business Improvement District

Postby Busguy2010 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:29 am

I think the streetcar is going to happen and as a result there will be a drive to build bigger, higher occupancy buildings along Farnam and Harney. The one thing I worry about is the number of sitting duck single family homes that are more common to this area than I realized. Many of these homes are diamonds in the rough. I hope the approach moving forward is to preserve these many homes and over-build on the empty lots.

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Re: Blackstone Business Improvement District

Postby choke » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:16 am

Busguy2010 wrote:I think the streetcar is going to happen and as a result there will be a drive to build bigger, higher occupancy buildings along Farnam and Harney. The one thing I worry about is the number of sitting duck single family homes that are more common to this area than I realized. Many of these homes are diamonds in the rough. I hope the approach moving forward is to preserve these many homes and over-build on the empty lots.



I thought HDR was a sure thing to go downtown. They can talk all they want about a streetcar but until I see a shovel hit the dirt, I won't get my hopes up. Omaha is talking streetcar and hasn't even cemented the BRT yet.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby choke » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:17 am

Per Joe Jordan / April 27, 2011 / NebraskaWatchdog.org:

Omaha’s Streetcar (Don’t Call It a Trolley) Still Desired, By Some



According to Cunningham while he’d like it sooner “in reality it probably wouldn’t happen for four or five years.”


Buffett objected to spending “$200 million to move people a few miles in Omaha and people want to use their car.”


Stothert would rather put money into buses. According to Stothert, “We need better public transportation-NOT a small downtown streetcar loop.”


That was 2011. Oy Vey.

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PotatoeEatsFish
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Re: Blackstone Business Improvement District

Postby PotatoeEatsFish » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:41 am

choke wrote:
Busguy2010 wrote:I think the streetcar is going to happen and as a result there will be a drive to build bigger, higher occupancy buildings along Farnam and Harney. The one thing I worry about is the number of sitting duck single family homes that are more common to this area than I realized. Many of these homes are diamonds in the rough. I hope the approach moving forward is to preserve these many homes and over-build on the empty lots.



I thought HDR was a sure thing to go downtown. They can talk all they want about a streetcar but until I see a shovel hit the dirt, I won't get my hopes up. Omaha is talking streetcar and hasn't even cemented the BRT yet.


I used to love the streetcar idea but now I'm iffy on it. Who would really use it? I think they should build a light rail first connecting downtown to West Omaha.
I got that Milf $

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby bigredmed » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:16 am

choke wrote:Per Joe Jordan / April 27, 2011 / NebraskaWatchdog.org:

Omaha’s Streetcar (Don’t Call It a Trolley) Still Desired, By Some



According to Cunningham while he’d like it sooner “in reality it probably wouldn’t happen for four or five years.”


Buffett objected to spending “$200 million to move people a few miles in Omaha and people want to use their car.”


Stothert would rather put money into buses. According to Stothert, “We need better public transportation-NOT a small downtown streetcar loop.”


That was 2011. Oy Vey.


Why people are still beating this dead horse is the Oy Vey! driver here. The money it will cost to build a street car system (to say nothing about the cost of road modifications once modern low slung vehicles get to deal with street car roads like old Leavenworth street and their owners start getting the body shop bills) is far better spent on a logical city wide transit plan. UNMC is part of MidTown 2050 and that is great. Their own parking analysis shows that the bulk of their workers live in the west or SW part of Omaha like everyone else. A street car that starts at the Clink and ends at Don and Millies on Saddlecreek is just not going to be the answer. And Oy Vey! its not even partial credit worthy.

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choke
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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby choke » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:37 pm

bigredmed wrote:
choke wrote:Per Joe Jordan / April 27, 2011 / NebraskaWatchdog.org:

Omaha’s Streetcar (Don’t Call It a Trolley) Still Desired, By Some



According to Cunningham while he’d like it sooner “in reality it probably wouldn’t happen for four or five years.”


Buffett objected to spending “$200 million to move people a few miles in Omaha and people want to use their car.”


Stothert would rather put money into buses. According to Stothert, “We need better public transportation-NOT a small downtown streetcar loop.”


That was 2011. Oy Vey.


Why people are still beating this dead horse is the Oy Vey! driver here. The money it will cost to build a street car system (to say nothing about the cost of road modifications once modern low slung vehicles get to deal with street car roads like old Leavenworth street and their owners start getting the body shop bills) is far better spent on a logical city wide transit plan. UNMC is part of MidTown 2050 and that is great. Their own parking analysis shows that the bulk of their workers live in the west or SW part of Omaha like everyone else. A street car that starts at the Clink and ends at Don and Millies on Saddlecreek is just not going to be the answer. And Oy Vey! its not even partial credit worthy.


¡Ay, caramba! You didn't like that comment one bit. So, sitting around and doing nothing while your competition (Denver, KC, OKC) implement streetcars is the correct plan of action???? At some point, it's inevitable. I don't see a slow down of living space opening up downtown and midtown. I, for one, would like alternative transportation to getting around the city. No, a streetcar isn't the answer; it's only part of the answer. Perhaps, after your first incident with a street car road, i.e., Leavenworth Street, you can go on a national tour, get on your soapbox, and preach the evil of streetcars.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby bigredmed » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:09 pm

No the correct plan of action is to do the following:

1. All bus routes east of 72nd are re structured so that they stop no closer than ever 200 yards. No more stopping every 100 feet. This means that most routes are now 50-60% faster.

2. Because these routes are more efficient, fewer buses are needed and these can be repurposed to other routes.

3. Two east-west commuter routes added to current routes. One on Pacific and one on Maple. These start in Elkhorn and end at Westroads.

4. Two more express buses that start at Westroads and end at 10th street. They stop at UNO, UNMC, MTC, 24th street, 16th street, and 10th only.

5. Small shuttle buses that loop through the city that link to these east west express buses. These will be cheaper to run than regular buses and allow for more neighborhood routes.

6. North south express routes on 144th, 120th,90th, 72nd, 48th, 30th, and 24th. From Dutch Hall road to Giles (or their equivalents).

In other words, just take the effort to make an effective square grid with loops that link to these express routes.

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Re: Blackstone Business Improvement District

Postby buildomaha » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:21 pm

PotatoeEatsFish wrote:
choke wrote:
Busguy2010 wrote:I think the streetcar is going to happen and as a result there will be a drive to build bigger, higher occupancy buildings along Farnam and Harney. The one thing I worry about is the number of sitting duck single family homes that are more common to this area than I realized. Many of these homes are diamonds in the rough. I hope the approach moving forward is to preserve these many homes and over-build on the empty lots.



I thought HDR was a sure thing to go downtown. They can talk all they want about a streetcar but until I see a shovel hit the dirt, I won't get my hopes up. Omaha is talking streetcar and hasn't even cemented the BRT yet.


I used to love the streetcar idea but now I'm iffy on it. Who would really use it? I think they should build a light rail first connecting downtown to West Omaha.

Light rail would be a lot ore beneficial.

buildomaha
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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby buildomaha » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:27 pm

bigredmed wrote:No the correct plan of action is to do the following:

1. All bus routes east of 72nd are re structured so that they stop no closer than ever 200 yards. No more stopping every 100 feet. This means that most routes are now 50-60% faster.

2. Because these routes are more efficient, fewer buses are needed and these can be repurposed to other routes.

3. Two east-west commuter routes added to current routes. One on Pacific and one on Maple. These start in Elkhorn and end at Westroads.

4. Two more express buses that start at Westroads and end at 10th street. They stop at UNO, UNMC, MTC, 24th street, 16th street, and 10th only.

5. Small shuttle buses that loop through the city that link to these east west express buses. These will be cheaper to run than regular buses and allow for more neighborhood routes.

6. North south express routes on 144th, 120th,90th, 72nd, 48th, 30th, and 24th. From Dutch Hall road to Giles (or their equivalents).
The problem with this is that most people that live out west are not going to want to get on a bus to go to work. It's almost an ego type of thing. Also people don't need public transit if they can afford to drive and chose to live in the suburbs knowing they would have to do so.
In other words, just take the effort to make an effective square grid with loops that link to these express routes.

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Re: Official: Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Postby OmahaOmaha » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:04 pm

Sorry, but I'm not sold on street cars. I'm curious. What makes having a street car so cool? Isn't it basically just a big over-sized bus riding on a track running down the street? I get so frustrated when I see all these big buses riding around town and you can see there is only one or two people riding in them. Why is having a street car going to make any more people want to ride the thing? When the temperature is below zero and it's snowing, do I want to walk more than a mile to get to the street car and then do the same getting off when my destination isn't close to the street car route?

When it comes to riding a bus, I don't want to ride with the people with droopy pants that look like they're going to mug me. I don't want to sit next to the guy that smells like he crapped his pants or the guy that smells like an ashtray. I don't want to worry about getting lice or bed bugs from sitting on the same seats as some of the dirty people. Aren't these going to be the same people that will be riding the street car?

The cost to build a street car and the cost to maintain one is huge. No matter what amount they tell us that it's going to cost to build, I'm sure it will end up costing millions and millions more. I imagine it would be cheaper to buy a car for everyone who doesn't have one. Why can't these people just take a taxi to get where they need to go? I work hard so I can own my own transportation. Maybe other people should do the same thing.

Street cars come with problems too. There's bound to be a lot of accidents when it's running down the street mixed with cars, trucks, and buses. Street cars can bring undesirable people into good neighborhoods. One or two stabbings, beatings, or robberies on a street car can quickly decline ridership.

I say no to buses, I say no to street cars, and I certainly say no to light rail. That's my opinion. Let the bashing begin.....

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Re: Blackstone Business Improvement District

Postby Busguy2010 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:15 pm

Of course light rail would be better for actually moving people, but there's no way it would fit in this part of town unless we went as far as elevating or making it a subway. BRT and streetcar are the way to go in this area, and I used to be a big dreamer for light rail on Dodge.

Anyway, my post is hardly about transportation. No matter what kind of transportation improvements there are in the future, I worry that the developers of the neighborhood will not see much in these single family homes. There are plenty of houses built before 1930 in this neighborhood and I worry developers won't bat an eye at bulldozing them in favor for big modern high density apartment buildings. Hence I hope whoever develops the empty lots really goes overboard for the sake of preserving the history of the neighborhood.

This is all way off in the future though. I've just been in the area more recently admiring these houses, some of which need a lot of love. I just can't help but think they look like sitting ducks with all of this cool new development quickly happening around them.


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