Iowa Interstate Signage Biased and Inaccurate

[StreetsOfOmaha]

You could easily flip the coin and say Omaha is a very large suburb of Council Bluffs...

Ingersoll, THAT is ridiculous and you know it.

Council Bluffs constitutes LESS THAN ONE 10th of Omaha's metro area population (Omaha being over half). The only reason people refer to it as the "Omaha-Council Bluffs" metro area is to emphasize the dual state nature of the metro area. These are not two equal parts, or "twin cities". The date of Council Bluffs incorporation as a city, and its role in the history of Omaha are beside the point.

While maybe not YOUR definition of a suburb, council bluffs is a smaller metro city (one of many) in the Omaha metro area.

[EastCB]

StreetsofOmaha  get over it. This is getting tiring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ingersoll1978]

You could easily flip the coin and say Omaha is a very large suburb of Council Bluffs...

Ingersoll, THAT is ridiculous and you know it.

Council Bluffs constitutes LESS THAN ONE 10th of Omaha's metro area population (Omaha being over half). The only reason people refer to it as the "Omaha-Council Bluffs" metro area is to emphasize the dual state nature of the metro area. These are not two equal parts, or "twin cities". The date of Council Bluffs incorporation as a city, and its role in the history of Omaha are beside the point.

While maybe not YOUR definition of a suburb, council bluffs is a smaller metro city (one of many) in the Omaha metro area.

It's a fact that Omaha wouldn't be what it is today WITHOUT Council Bluffs.  Millard, Elk Horn, Chico, La Vista, Papillion and others in fact are suburbs.  They grew after World War II in the same fashion as most suburbs around central cities in the United States (and were an after thought).  

Council Bluffs simply doesn't fit the mold as "suburb" and has and will continue to play a major role in metro development in the future, regardless of your obnoxious attitude towards CB and Iowa.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

It's a fact that Omaha wouldn't be what it is today WITHOUT Council Bluffs.  Millard, Elk Horn, Chico, La Vista, Papillion and others in fact are suburbs.  They grew after World War II in the same fashion as most suburbs around central cities in the United States (and were an after thought).  

Wait....so you mean to tell me we are a tri-state metro now? That is pretty exciting news to hear that we are now, in fact, within the commuting realm of the metropolitan area of Chico, California. I thought my commute was pretty long, these Chicons (Chickens?), must be driving upwards of 1600 miles one way to work! This will only put more fuel in Streets's fire seeing as how there probably are not interstate mileage signs listing Omaha as a control city until you get within 500 miles of downtown. That is 1100 miles of linear road within this newly added Super Really Far West Omaha/Chico area of the metro without a mileage sign for Omaha.

(It's Chalco )

(Also, Elkhorn is one word)

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Ingersoll, you, like everyone else, are totally missing the point.

I LOVE COUNCIL BLUFFS AND I LOVE IOWA. Period. This is not an attack on either!!!

I may have ERRONEOUSLY used the word "suburb" in place of "smaller metro city" when describing CB. You've obviously taken a huge issue with that, which was not my intent.

So, if you can get over THAT, all I'm saying is do you not see my point about the way Omaha is treated on Iowa's interstate signage?

EastCB, don't post in or read the thread if it's getting tiring. Simple as that. If you have something to say about the topic, THEN you make a post.

[Ingersoll1978]

The thing is Streets, Council Bluffs is a control city for our interstate system in Iowa.  I believe that it should be (as it is the economic center for SW Iowa).  Omaha is indeed posted on numerous signs.  You're basically saying CB should be removed from all signs and replaced with "Omaha" right?   I don't get what the big problem is (I could understand it if there wasn't ANY signage).  

I'm not offended!  :)   I was just trying to point out why Council Bluffs isn't a "suburb".

[Stargazer]

Although it is ridiculous to call Council Bluffs the economic center of SW Iowa... Omaha is of course, the economic center.  I'd wager that there are more Pottawattamie and surrounding MSA county residents working in Nebraska... than in Iowa.  They're all flying out of Omaha, predominantly doing business/buying consumer goods/etc in Omaha... heck Glenwood is arguably an Omaha bedroom community... and it's 20+ miles away.

[MTO]

Well CB is NOT the core city of the metro area.  So wouldn't it be logical to use the most dominant city to represent the metro on a directional sign?  I see sings for KC hundreds of miles away I never see sings for Overland Park KS.

[Stargazer]

I guess that would be a good comparison... what do drivers see along I-70 headed east?  Kansas City, KS?

[Ingersoll1978]

Although it is ridiculous to call Council Bluffs the economic center of SW Iowa... Omaha is of course, the economic center.  I'd wager that there are more Pottawattamie and surrounding MSA county residents working in Nebraska... than in Iowa.  They're all flying out of Omaha, predominantly doing business/buying consumer goods/etc in Omaha... heck Glenwood is arguably an Omaha bedroom community... and it's 20+ miles away.

Really?  How many of you have lived in these small communities in SW Iowa (I've lived in Tabor, Treynor and Defiance)?  I know from experience that most people don't go to Omaha for their basic needs.  They go to Council Bluffs.  They have pretty much everything they need there.  Of course, some people do go over to Omaha for work (and vice versa) and the occasional shopping trip, but Council Bluffs provides enough retail to allow most trips by its residents to be done at "home".  Whenever I go home, I hardly ever go over the Missouri River.  There is simply no need.  The times I do is simply to feed my Amigos fix...but I hardly even do that nowadays.

If this isn't happening, then explain to me why retail sales per capita is higher in Pottawattamie County than Douglas?  According to data I'm looking at, Council Bluffs has a retail pull factor of 1.4.  Yes, some Iowans are working in Omaha, but they are spending most of their cash at "home".  Their were only three catagories in which Pottawattamie County has a leakage, that is home furnishings (not a surprise), services, and wholesale.  They were positive for apparel, building materials, eating and drinking, food, general merchandise and specialty.  Overall, a sales surplus for the county was over $36 million (this is according to 2000 data).  I'd assume that this has only increased, with the addition of more big-box stores and restaurants.  In addition, the civilian workforce is smaller than the number of jobs in the county (2006).  

I'm not saying there aren't people working or shopping in Omaha from Iowa.  Obviously there is.  But, Omahans are also shopping and working in Council Bluffs. As for entertainment, we know millions are left behind at CB casinos.  We thank you for that!  :)  I don't think it's "ridiculous" to call Council Bluffs the economic center of SW Iowa.

Regardless of your views about the economic status of CB, the signs are what they are.  If Kansas wants to make Overland Park a control city, they have that right (and maybe they already do?).  

Cheers!

[Stargazer]

Council Bluffs can of course thank that casino revenue for the vast majority of it's 'retail trade' numbers... hardly an indicator of it's own people spending locally.  I guess we'll call it the entertainment center of eastern Nebraska.

[the1wags]

Don't overlook that a lot of eastern Omahans are shopping in CB. Since retail has all but pulled out of eastern Omaha, CB's expanding retail offerings are often much closer than their Omaha counterparts.

Totally off topic.

[DTO Luv]

Don't overlook that a lot of eastern Omahans are shopping in CB. Since retail has all but pulled out of eastern Omaha, CB's expanding retail offerings are often much closer than their Omaha counterparts.

Exactly, and then people wonder why there property taxes are high here. They don't spend money here.

[DTO Luv]

Hey Streets,

You want to have another freakout? Go to the des moines website where they have the non DM related city talk and have it listed as the Council Bluffs-Omaha metro.

(Now that one I think is blatantly biased. )

[Brad]

Hey Streets,

You want to have another freakout? Go to the des moines website where they have the non DM related city talk and have it listed as the Council Bluffs-Omaha metro.

(Now that one I think is blatantly biased. )

I think Josh and Ryan call that the "D'Shawn proof" forum....  Its like kryptonite

[DTO Luv]

I check it out often enough and post every so often. heck I'll even be in Des Moines next month for Britney Spears and most likely spend the night and explore the next day.

[Ingersoll1978]

I check it out often enough and post every so often. heck I'll even be in Des Moines next month for Britney Spears and most likely spend the night and explore the next day.

I hope you will be saying hi!  I'll be at the concert.  :)

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Although it is ridiculous to call Council Bluffs the economic center of SW Iowa... Omaha is of course, the economic center.  I'd wager that there are more Pottawattamie and surrounding MSA county residents working in Nebraska... than in Iowa.  They're all flying out of Omaha, predominantly doing business/buying consumer goods/etc in Omaha... heck Glenwood is arguably an Omaha bedroom community... and it's 20+ miles away.

Really?  How many of you have lived in these small communities in SW Iowa (I've lived in Tabor, Treynor and Defiance)?  I know from experience that most people don't go to Omaha for their basic needs.  They go to Council Bluffs.  They have pretty much everything they need there.  Of course, some people do go over to Omaha for work (and vice versa) and the occasional shopping trip, but Council Bluffs provides enough retail to allow most trips by its residents to be done at "home".  Whenever I go home, I hardly ever go over the Missouri River.  There is simply no need.  The times I do is simply to feed my Amigos fix...but I hardly even do that nowadays.

If this isn't happening, then explain to me why retail sales per capita is higher in Pottawattamie County than Douglas?  According to data I'm looking at, Council Bluffs has a retail pull factor of 1.4.  Yes, some Iowans are working in Omaha, but they are spending most of their cash at "home".  Their were only three catagories in which Pottawattamie County has a leakage, that is home furnishings (not a surprise), services, and wholesale.  They were positive for apparel, building materials, eating and drinking, food, general merchandise and specialty.  Overall, a sales surplus for the county was over $36 million (this is according to 2000 data).  I'd assume that this has only increased, with the addition of more big-box stores and restaurants.  In addition, the civilian workforce is smaller than the number of jobs in the county (2006).  

I'm not saying there aren't people working or shopping in Omaha from Iowa.  Obviously there is.  But, Omahans are also shopping and working in Council Bluffs. As for entertainment, we know millions are left behind at CB casinos.  We thank you for that!  :)  I don't think it's "ridiculous" to call Council Bluffs the economic center of SW Iowa.

Regardless of your views about the economic status of CB, the signs are what they are.  If Kansas wants to make Overland Park a control city, they have that right (and maybe they already do?).  

Cheers!

Now that I'm on this side of the river and work at a job in Atlantic and that takes me all over southwest Iowa, I'm going to have to agree with all this. I haven't found anyone who is anti-Nebraska towards their shopping, but Council Bluffs has just about everything as far as retail is concerned...save for a decent mall and a wide array of new car dealerships. I probably would spend more of my tax dollars in Nebraska if everything wasn't so convenient to my place here and completely out of my way in Nebraska.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Working Downtown (Omaha that is), I sure see gobs of Iowa license plates lined up to cross back into CB at the end of the day. And OBVIOUSLY people go back and forth from both sides, like they do ANYWHERE in the metro. People who live in Papillion, Bellevue, Elkhorn, et al probably don't have much need to go into Omaha for their daily needs (retail, grocery, etc. etc.). That's the way it is in ANY major metro.

I feel like a broken record, but I don't have a choice as for some reason this has turned into a CB vs.  Omaha debate, which is COMPLETELY BESIDE THE POINT.

No, I'm not saying they should take CB off the interstate signs, just at least come to terms with reality and put Omaha up when showing directions. Obviously give mileage along the way for CB, just like Omaha!

Yes, the fact that Council Bluffs is a control city for the interstate in Iowa CERTAINLY explains WHY things are the way they are... However, that very fact also proves my point that it's TOTALLY because of biases and favoritism in Des Moines.

It just REEKS of nepotism!

If you see a sign in Des Moines that says "Kansas City, Chicago, Minneapolis, and COUNCIL BLUFFS" and don't see a problem with that... well, I don't know if there's any help for you, or if there's any use continuing to try to make you understand.

[DTO Luv]

If it will make you feel better I'll bring a can of hot pink spray paint with me the next time I'm in Des Moines and take care of that pesky sign for you.

[icejammer]

Yes, the fact that Council Bluffs is a control city for the interstate in Iowa CERTAINLY explains WHY things are the way they are... However, that very fact also proves my point that it's TOTALLY because of biases and favoritism in Des Moines.

What does Des Moines have to do with it?  The Iowa DOT is based in Ames, not Des Moines.

[MTO]

Ok Josh and D'Shawn queer party over.

And I do not see any case for using retail sales to quantify using CB on a road sign?  Wouldn't the SMA and CMA be more relevant?

[the1wags]

Jake do you have to work at being a dumbass, or is it all natural?

I was following the flow of the discussion. Retail sales has no effect on interstate highway signage. Of course, neither does any sort of Iowa DOT conspiracy to slight Omaha.

[DTO Luv]

Jake do you have to work at being a dumbass, or is it all natural?

I was following the flow of the discussion. Retail sales has no effect on interstate highway signage. Of course, neither does any sort of Iowa DOT conspiracy to slight Omaha.

Wrong Josh dumbass. He was refering to me and Ingersoll and Britney.

[the1wags]

Whoops. My bad Jake. I guess I'm the dumbass this time.  :;):

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Icejammer, I was just using Des Moines as a metonym for Iowa's government, although I'll admit I didn't realize the IDOT was in Ames.

[SabrinaFaire]

Wait a second. You're complaining about Iowa interstate signs when Omaha can't even be bothered to let you know when you're in an exit only lane? Really?

[StreetsOfOmaha]

What are you talking about? And what do exit lanes have to do with this topic?

[SabrinaFaire]

My point is, pick the apples off your own tree first.

[MTO]

There are many many things folks find to complain about.  It just so happens this time they chose IDOTs choice on how they label their signs.  
Anyone is more then welcome to start other threads about other topics if they so choose.

[OmahaJaysCU]

My point is, pick the apples off your own tree first.

I understand that, but a few of us are missing what the problem is with exit signs?

[SabrinaFaire]

My point is, pick the apples off your own tree first.

I understand that, but a few of us are missing what the problem is with exit signs?

There's a couple of instances where you're in an exit lane in the area, and don't know it until it's too late. If you travel the road a lot, no problem, you know not to be in that lane. If you don't travel that road a lot, you're in trouble. Such as the L street exit on 80. There's 3 lanes there and the right one is exit only, but there's no sign telling you that. The Saddle Creek/NW Highway/Cuming Street is another example. If you're going southbound on NW Highway, the right lane is for Saddle Creek only. There's a TINY little sign saying that the curb lane is for Saddle Creek. Very, very easy to miss.

[Mr.Nuke]

of instances where you're in an exit lane in the area, and don't know it until it's too late. If you travel the road a lot, no problem, you know not to be in that lane. If you don't travel that road a lot, you're in trouble. Such as the L street exit on 80. .

Which direction?  The I-80 East exit for L isn't marked exit only, but there is a sign a mile ahead of the exit warning that the right lane is an exit only lane for L Street and 80 East through traffic needs to be in the left two lanes.  Also the way the road is painted makes it fairly obvious even if you missed the sign.

[thenewguy]

i think i understand the initial point sabrina was trying to make, if it's any consolation.

[SabrinaFaire]

of instances where you're in an exit lane in the area, and don't know it until it's too late. If you travel the road a lot, no problem, you know not to be in that lane. If you don't travel that road a lot, you're in trouble. Such as the L street exit on 80. .

Which direction?  The I-80 East exit for L isn't marked exit only, but there is a sign a mile ahead of the exit warning that the right lane is an exit only lane for L Street and 80 East through traffic needs to be in the left two lanes.  Also the way the road is painted makes it fairly obvious even if you missed the sign.

Westbound/from Southbound 680.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Is this what you're talking about"




While I'm at it, here's another sign that irks me, and it's just miles outside of the metro! If NORTH OMAHA doesn't need a "Nebr" behind it, why does |expletive| OMAHA? If anything, it's the inconsistency that bugs me most.



Anyway, I totally know what you're talking about on NW Radial, and I totally agree.