Official:High Speed Rail Discussion(Omaha to Lincoln)

[Stargazer]

[Seth]

There's no reason to get all sarcastic or upset here.  To address the issue, yes Amtrak does run through both Omaha and Lincoln but it can in no way be used as a daily commuter service.  It is oriented towards long-distance interstate travel, and thus only comes through once a day at whatever hour is convenient for their long-distance scheduling (of course, you need to add an hour or so for delays too).

To even be a commuting option, you would need intercity round trips centered around a workday schedule.  Even just several in the morning from 5-8 at say, half-hour increments, and several again in evening from 4-7 would be sufficient.

In the Chicago suburbs, Metra does this very well and they have excellent ridership.

[nebugeater]

"Are you serious" is a figure of speech. I was trying to express my extreme disbelief that someone would make such a comparison in seriousness.

Really?  Never would have guess.  :roll:  It was such a nice welcoming reply to someone that has not posted much here.

[Edagger]

I honestly didn't expect anything less.
I do understand the difference...it didn't need to be explained.  Just pointing it out for those who may not know.  
It has probably already been mentioned on here.

[Big E]

http://huskerextra.com/articles/2010/05 ... 350283.txt

A railroad service to take Husker football fans from Omaha to Lincoln and back could succeed commercially, according to a professional project study done by a recent University of Nebraska-Lincoln master’s graduate in community and regional planning.

Matthew D. Roque, who got his undergraduate degree in business administration at Union College, has spent months on this challenge, and he’s a believer.

“I’ve learned this’ll work,” he said. “This can make money.”

[thenewguy]

http://huskerextra.com/articles/2010/05 ... 350283.txt

A railroad service to take Husker football fans from Omaha to Lincoln and back could succeed commercially, according to a professional project study done by a recent University of Nebraska-Lincoln master’s graduate in community and regional planning.

Matthew D. Roque, who got his undergraduate degree in business administration at Union College, has spent months on this challenge, and he’s a believer.

“I’ve learned this’ll work,” he said. “This can make money.”

I'd love it...but what i've learned is that they'll just do another study to prolong the inevitable "not in this life-time" statement.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

While I completely oppose this in principle as it would in-no-way address the real transportation needs facing eastern Nebraskans while simultaneously creating the perception that a need has been met, I do think that, as pathetic as it is, this may be the best option for reintroducing urban Nebraskans to passenger rail travel.

Sorry for the ridiculous run-on sentence.  :)

[nebport5]

http://huskerextra.com/articles/2010/05 ... 350283.txt

A railroad service to take Husker football fans from Omaha to Lincoln and back could succeed commercially, according to a professional project study done by a recent University of Nebraska-Lincoln master’s graduate in community and regional planning.

Matthew D. Roque, who got his undergraduate degree in business administration at Union College, has spent months on this challenge, and he’s a believer.

“I’ve learned this’ll work,” he said. “This can make money.”

No Sh*t!!

[mrdwhsr]

While I completely oppose this in principle as it would in-no-way address the real transportation needs facing eastern Nebraskans while simultaneously creating the perception that a need has been met, I do think that, as pathetic as it is, this may be the best option for reintroducing urban Nebraskans to passenger rail travel.

Sorry for the ridiculous run-on sentence.  :)

Glad to know that travel to Lincoln on Husker game days is not a real transportation need.

No saying I'm a Husker fan, but I think there are 90,000 that would disagree.

[Omababe]

Glad to know that travel to Lincoln on Husker game days is not a real transportation need.

No saying I'm a Husker fan, but I think there are 90,000 that would disagree.

I think that one point that's often missed (yeah, I know I'm repeating myself) among proponents of rail/transit/whatever, is that if any kind of non-private-auto transportation is to succeed around here, it must be supported and used by the Great Unwashed Masses. (As opposed to our excuse for a city bus line which runs light most of the time!)

It's not the railfans, the transit buffs, the new urbanists and the like who need to be convinced. It's folks like Joe and Jo Sixpack, the soccer moms and the SUV dads, Jenny and Bobby who now expect a car at age 16, and yes, the Husker Fans!

A "Husker Express" could be just the ticket to show those who have never even ridden a train, other than at an amusement park, just how convenient and cost effective it can be.

In fact, I vaguely remember seeing photos of such a train, maybe dating back to the 1970s. I remember seeing a photo of this train stopped to pick up Big Red fans at the almost-town of Chalco, where I'm sure there was never a real station platform.

All it would really take to bring this back would be a train, and some entity to sponsor it.

[Stargazer]

Actually, I'm pretty sure there was a passenger platform back in the 19th century in the area of Chalco.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

While I completely oppose this in principle as it would in-no-way address the real transportation needs facing eastern Nebraskans while simultaneously creating the perception that a need has been met, I do think that, as pathetic as it is, this may be the best option for reintroducing urban Nebraskans to passenger rail travel.

Sorry for the ridiculous run-on sentence.  :)

Glad to know that travel to Lincoln on Husker game days is not a real transportation need.

No saying I'm a Husker fan, but I think there are 90,000 that would disagree.

No, four Saturdays out of the year is NOT a real transportation need of eastern Nebraskans.  :roll: That wasn't the point anyway.

[Big E]

7 or 8 most years, actually.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Oh, well that's different, then.  8)

[Big E]

I think people underestimate the number of Lincoln students that would show up in the Old Market on weekends if this were a regular service that would take them back Lincoln-wards around last call-ish.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I think people underestimate the number of Lincoln students that would show up in the Old Market on weekends if this were a regular service that would take them back Lincoln-wards around last call-ish.

Ding ding ding ding ding!!!

And vice versa.

[Coyote]

U.S. High-Speed Rail Plan Faces Tension Over Tracks

President Barack Obama announced in January the awarding of $8 billion in economic stimulus money to jump-start the building of high-speed rail corridors. Most passenger trains in the U.S. use freight tracks owned by companies including Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp., bought by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Inc. this year.

The freight railroads were “shocked” last month, when the Federal Railroad Administration issued guidelines that included penalties for failing to meet on-time performance standards for passenger traffic on their lines, said Patti Reilly, a spokeswoman for the Association of American Railroads. Union Pacific Corp. was among freight railroads that balked at the guidance, published May 12, Union Pacific Chief Executive Officer James Young said in a June 15 interview at Bloomberg’s New York office. “There’s not a lot of incentive in terms of putting high- speed rail on freight railroads,” said Young, whose company has the most locomotives of all U.S. freight railroads.

The U.S. Federal Railroad Administration, which is administering the stimulus high-speed rail money, plans to spend about 40 percent of the initial $8 billion on freight-owned tracks, said Warren Flatau, an agency spokesman. A line owned by Omaha, Nebraska-based Union Pacific that runs between Chicago and St. Louis may be the first to host high-speed passenger service funded by the stimulus package, Young said.

[Coyote]

2010 Meeting of the Minds - Omaha

High-Speed Rail Would Save Oil, Create Jobs, Study Finds

OMAHA, Neb. -- A frank discussion about realities of high-speed rail's economics and viability was one of the high points of this week's Meeting of the Minds conference on sustainable cities this week. With billions in U.S. taxpayer dollars being spent on high-speed rail projects, panelists sought to sort out facts from fiction.

Stephen Robillard, vice president of High Speed Rail USA at Siemens AG -- which builds trains and light rails -- said that if 10 percent of drivers switch to high-speed rail ridership, the U.S. would save 550 million barrels of oil annually and that one high-speed railcar equates to taking 200 cars off the road.

[GetUrban]

This is a little far-fetched, but maybe Nebraska's recent joining of the Big Ten will help expedite Omaha-Lincoln's eventual (hopeful) high-speed rail connections to Chicago & beyond. ...not just for sports, but academics and research as well.

[Seth]

[T]he Federal Railroad Administration issued guidelines that included penalties for failing to meet on-time performance standards for passenger traffic on their lines, said Patti Reilly, a spokeswoman for the Association of American Railroads.

The government is 100% on the money with this one.  Riding the California Zephyr to Illinois and back this weekend, I overheard quite a bit of first-hand experiences with Amtrak.  About half the passengers in the several rows near our seats were first-time Amtrak riders, and sadly, I'm pretty sure most of them won't be returning.  Due to freight scheduling conflicts, we were several hours late by the time we made it to Illinois.  The vast majority of complaints from the people I overheard was regarding being late.  They didn't complain that it was slow compared to flying and would have been happy if it only had kept up with the timetable.  If they can get their on-time performance up to the level of airlines, I think ridership (primarily from returning customers) would increase significantly.

The U.S. Federal Railroad Administration, which is administering the stimulus high-speed rail money, plans to spend about 40 percent of the initial $8 billion on freight-owned tracks, said Warren Flatau, an agency spokesman.

How unfortunate: we're spending over $3 billion on your tracks (plus the standard yearly lease fees for Amtrak access) and they're complaining that they'll have to pull over and let a few passenger trains by?

The truly unfortunate fact is that we've squandered so much rail right-of-way over the past 50 years that the increase in freight and passenger traffic are going to be a challenge to fit onto the current infrastructure.  Dedicated high-speed rail tracks solve the freight interference problem, but obtaining the right-of-way can be obscenely expensive (case-in-point: Phase 1 of the Florida high-speed system going to the Orland airport instead of downtown).

[Omababe]

Riding the California Zephyr to Illinois and back this weekend, I overheard quite a bit of first-hand experiences with Amtrak.

Just for giggles, for an upcoming trip to Chicago, I looked at the schedule for Amtrak as well as air.

From Omaha to Chicago one way, it was something like $66 on Amtrak, leaving at 5:something in the morning, allegedly arriving 3:something that afternoon.

However, the price. OMA to MDW on Southwest was $39. Takes off at 8:something, gets there at 9:something.

No-brainer, sorry.

The vast majority of complaints from the people I overheard was regarding being late.  They didn't complain that it was slow compared to flying and would have been happy if it only had kept up with the timetable.

Leaving at 5:00-something, getting there at 3:00-something is very reasonable, however, from what I've been hearing, this train has often been several hours late. This is what bothers me. I don't want to take that chance. Air travel has a much better on-time record.

[NovakOmaha]

I used to ride Amtrack from Omaha to Chicago in the 80s.  It was before Southwest came to OMA and the roundtrip fare on Amtrack was $108 roundtrip vs. over $200 on United or American.  You got on at 7 something in the morning and once you left you went for breakfast (railroad french toast was really good).  You also got seated with strangers to make sure each table had 4 people.  Later they showed a movie in the lounge car.  The train station in Chicago is right downtown so I could catch the bus to my sister's apartment.

The return trip left at 3:45 or so and got into Omaha after 11 at night.  Again, dinner and then a movie.  There were times I didn't get in to Omaha til after midnight.  

I didn't ride Amtrack for some altruistic reason.  I did it to save money and because it was a cool way to go.  Once Southwest came to Omaha it was all over.

On the other hand, it was pretty cool to still be getting settled and putting away my luggage and look out the window to see that we were moving.  No announcement to put my seat back up and put up my tray table.  The seats were very big and comfortable.  The coolest view was out the window during a lightning storm.  

Also, one time I was seated for breakfast with the Ambassador from India who had never been outside Washington and New York and wanted to see the country.  I and the other two at the table had a great time telling him what he was seeing.  He told us all about India.  We spent 3 hours sitting there chatting.  You don't get that on a plane to Chicago.  I probably took 20 train trips to Chicago and always ended up chatting with strangers, some for over an hour.  It was a much more civilized way to travel.  However, you have to give up hours to do it, and even with high speed it will never beat air travel in terms of time.  To take the train from Detroit to Omaha would take 17 hours at least versus less than two hours non stop air.

[mrdwhsr]

I think people underestimate the number of Lincoln students that would show up in the Old Market on weekends if this were a regular service that would take them back Lincoln-wards around last call-ish.

Ding ding ding ding ding!!!

And vice versa.

MetroLink (Los Angeles) and Coaster (San Diego) service do not run around last call-ish. Commuter style service last departure is typically around 7pm. Amtrak-California's Surfliner runs later into the evening, but even that is ends before last call. Omaha - Lincoln would certainly be breaking new ground.

[mrdwhsr]

Leaving at 5:00-something, getting there at 3:00-something is very reasonable, however, from what I've been hearing, this train has often been several hours late. This is what bothers me. I don't want to take that chance. Air travel has a much better on-time record.

Speed isn't that big an issue. The 3:00-something arrival means you just miss connections with the westbound Empire Builder, Southwest Chief and Texas Eagle (even with on-time arrival). An overnight stay is required for East Coast connections. Detroit in 17-hours just isn't possible when the next departure is the next morning.

Unless HSR changes things, travel by train pretty much eliminates plans that would require connecting routes. Even when that connection leads to a next day arrival, at least there could be the option to book a sleeping berth for an over-night trip instead of hotel expense. Hopefully someday Omaha will be connected to a "National" rail passenger network. Amtrak's service schedule just doesn't cut it for now.

[Omababe]

IOnce Southwest came to Omaha it was all over.

Anybody (else) remember Midway Airlines?

I think this was the one that really broke up the Untied/American duopoly between Omaha and Chicago. I know they were here long before Southwest.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

What all of your comments point out is the ridiculous disparity of Amtrak's cost of ridership vs. time spent traveling.

Amtrak is a failed transportation system - the national equivalent of our very own MAT. It needs to be completely dissolved and replaced by a new national passenger rail service.

[Brad]

After another discussion of Car V Train on the Omaha Council Bluffs Railfan Group I came up with this "Regional" rail Map using only Existing rail tracks

[iamjacobm]

It almost makes too much sense...

[mrdwhsr]

I like it Brad  :D  :D

Maybe we will see this someday -- with Nebraska City included. Does complicate Omaha's wheel tax collection. I'd balk at paying a wheel tax if I commute by rail.

[Brad]

Nebraska City would be easy and it would create a second option for Bellevue, as well as pick up Murry, Union, Beaver lake. etc.

I also added Blair on this map.

Again
RED is EXISTING Union Pacific Track
GREEN is EXISTING BNSF Track
YELLOW is EXISTING BNSF Track (optional)

[mrdwhsr]

Omaha to Lincoln in minutes?  Check out the high-speed rail record set by China. Cheng says the scenery is a blur at these speeds. Notice -- electric power from overhead wire, absolutely no rail-highway crossings -- essential elements for speeds in excess of 110mph.


[youtube][/youtube]

[almighty_tuna]

Seth, I would contend that will be the case for a good while and in many areas other than just rail.

[ricko]

Hey, we can't invest in the future.  That's SOCIALISM.

[omaja]

China is definitely going for quantity over quality, for what it's worth.  It remains to be seen if what they are building will last anywhere near as long as it probably should.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

China does not hold the high-speed rail record (non-maglev). That honor belongs to our dear friends the French, whom S33 so despises.

[youtube][/youtube]

For more stunning footage, see this youtube video. Check out the "flyby" around 3 minutes in. Unbelievable!

[iamjacobm]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/1 ... index.html

A Chinese high-speed train broke a world record Friday for fastest unmodified commercial train, reaching speeds of up to 481.1 kph (298.9 mph), state media reported.

I'm guessing the one in France wasn't commercial or something?  I would think that CNN would do some fact checking.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I'm guessing the word "unmodified" is key. The trains in France do not routinely run at these speeds, and modifications were made to reach the record speed.

In any case, the video footage is stunning.

[S33]

Hey, we can't invest in the future.  That's SOCIALISM.

Nope, Actually socialism is spending public funds on |expletive| (most social programs) without any proven return on the investment.

[wasting money]

[ricko]

This is probably just a semantic argument, but it gives me a lame excuse to disagree. I don't consider myself a Socialist (except maybe by talk-radio standards) but I think that investing in light rail/trolley/streetcar/metro/high-speed inter-city rail, or whatever you want to call it, has a huge multiplier effect on a community.  I've seen it myself over the last 30 years with the development of the Washington Metro system.  Property values alone, within about a mile radius of each station, skyrocketed; and development around many stations had the effect of turning each station in Arlington County (Virginia) into a mini-downtown. The "Ballston Corridor", which is comprised of 5 contiguous Metro stations, has experienced several billion dollars worth of high density residential and commercial construction, the likes of which I haven't seen anywhere else. My house increased in value from $145K to $365K between 1985 and 1995, when I sold it.  I should have held on to it since it is now worth $640K.  Arlington County went from the 'ugly step-sister' of the metro area to 'the cool place to live' in the Northern Virginia suburbs.  The Metro had a similar effect on the Maryland suburb of Bethesda, the core of which looks like the downtown of a thriving medium sized city, and several other stations along Metro's 5 (soon to be 6) lines have witnessed unbelievable growth.  Public investment works.  My brother-in-law was getting ready to sell property on south 10th St. in Omaha, but decided to hold on to it when I told him about Omaha's tentative plans for light rail along 10th St., and my experience in Va..  I take the high-speed Acela train from DC to NYC when visiting friends.  I've also taken it to Philly on business.  I've never been to Japan or China, but I have been to Germany/France/Italy/Spain---all have first rate train systems, and I couldn't imagine how they would manage without them.  Granted, high speed rail may not make sense between Omaha and Lincoln in the near future, but I thought that the routes chosen by the Dept. of Transportation for high speed rail made absolute sense.  I like the fact that I can walk a block from my home, take a circulator bus to the Metro, Metro to Acela to NYC to subway to my hotel.  A comprehensive, integrated system that is relatively painless to use, and I don't have to worry about getting molested by the TSA, or worry about my G.D. car.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Hey, we can't invest in the future.  That's SOCIALISM.

Nope, Actually socialism is spending public funds on |expletive| (most social programs) without any proven return on the investment.

[wasting money]

Return on the investment? What are you talking about?! The "return on investment" (since you have to put it in capitalistic terms) for investing in social programs is better quality of life and higher standards of living for more people. Is there supposed to be some monetary return that the government receives back that is reflected on its bottom line? Ridiculous.