Della Costa (formerly MTC Brix)
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:30 am
Heard the owner of M's pub placed an offer on half of the old Brix space which will be split into two restaurant bays.
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Which Brix location and which M's Pub owner (Ron Samuelson who just opened Herbe Sainte in Aksarben Village or Ann Mellen)?secret duh wrote:Heard the owner of M's pub placed an offer on half of the old Brix space which will be split into two restaurant bays.
Sarah Baker Hansen / World-Herald staff writer wrote:The restaurant’s name translates to “of the coast,” and it will focus on “the Mediterranean palette,” Samuelson told The World-Herald. That will include Italian seafood and flavor influences from Greece, Morocco, Spain and southern France.
It's certainly a troubled development. That is for sure.onelocalfoods wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 am I'm not so sure there is a winning formula food wise for MTC.
Its a pass-through neighborhood. Moving Alamo, Culprit, and Modern Love into spaces there was absolutely a win, but I just am not of the belief that outside event times, i.e. jazz on the green etc. That MTC will ever find a formula that makes it go. I agree with the above sentiment that lunch should be a priority for employees in the area, but even with some great changes that they have made recently it never ends on my list of options on a night where the wife and I go out. I hope it finds its way but all and all I just dont know what would even be the right fit anymore.
Especially as there is no place there that is really so good that it would make me drive past all other good places between my house and there. If I am going to drive that far, I have the old market and places like Malara's. I also wonder what the combination of their skunked reputation and the proximity of the hassle plagued tax bitten Blackstone area will do in terms of creating and image of a region of the city that just is not a place to go to. Kind of like Benson, where people detest the parking, so they only go to Benson if they can get a decent priced Uber.omaha79 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:08 amIt's certainly a troubled development. That is for sure.onelocalfoods wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 am I'm not so sure there is a winning formula food wise for MTC.
Its a pass-through neighborhood. Moving Alamo, Culprit, and Modern Love into spaces there was absolutely a win, but I just am not of the belief that outside event times, i.e. jazz on the green etc. That MTC will ever find a formula that makes it go. I agree with the above sentiment that lunch should be a priority for employees in the area, but even with some great changes that they have made recently it never ends on my list of options on a night where the wife and I go out. I hope it finds its way but all and all I just dont know what would even be the right fit anymore.
bigredmed1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:53 amEspecially as there is no place there that is really so good that it would make me drive past all other good places between my house and there. If I am going to drive that far, I have the old market and places like Malara's. I also wonder what the combination of their skunked reputation and the proximity of the hassle plagued tax bitten Blackstone area will do in terms of creating and image of a region of the city that just is not a place to go to. Kind of like Benson, where people detest the parking, so they only go to Benson if they can get a decent priced Uber.omaha79 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:08 amIt's certainly a troubled development. That is for sure.onelocalfoods wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 am I'm not so sure there is a winning formula food wise for MTC.
Its a pass-through neighborhood. Moving Alamo, Culprit, and Modern Love into spaces there was absolutely a win, but I just am not of the belief that outside event times, i.e. jazz on the green etc. That MTC will ever find a formula that makes it go. I agree with the above sentiment that lunch should be a priority for employees in the area, but even with some great changes that they have made recently it never ends on my list of options on a night where the wife and I go out. I hope it finds its way but all and all I just dont know what would even be the right fit anymore.
Yeah those two spots are literally always busy.Ebburkrevus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:34 pmbigredmed1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:53 amEspecially as there is no place there that is really so good that it would make me drive past all other good places between my house and there. If I am going to drive that far, I have the old market and places like Malara's. I also wonder what the combination of their skunked reputation and the proximity of the hassle plagued tax bitten Blackstone area will do in terms of creating and image of a region of the city that just is not a place to go to. Kind of like Benson, where people detest the parking, so they only go to Benson if they can get a decent priced Uber.omaha79 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:08 amIt's certainly a troubled development. That is for sure.onelocalfoods wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 am I'm not so sure there is a winning formula food wise for MTC.
Its a pass-through neighborhood. Moving Alamo, Culprit, and Modern Love into spaces there was absolutely a win, but I just am not of the belief that outside event times, i.e. jazz on the green etc. That MTC will ever find a formula that makes it go. I agree with the above sentiment that lunch should be a priority for employees in the area, but even with some great changes that they have made recently it never ends on my list of options on a night where the wife and I go out. I hope it finds its way but all and all I just dont know what would even be the right fit anymore.
Both Blackstone and Benson are always busy. You should just stay west of 132nd street and enjoy your life.
No doubt. Just a hassle. Benson is now a shorthand for bad parking. The Blackstone is similar. With the tax bite added, again, I wonder how long it will be before the MTC and the Blackstone area are seen as more hassle than it is worth.Louie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:22 pmYeah those two spots are literally always busy.Ebburkrevus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:34 pmbigredmed1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:53 amEspecially as there is no place there that is really so good that it would make me drive past all other good places between my house and there. If I am going to drive that far, I have the old market and places like Malara's. I also wonder what the combination of their skunked reputation and the proximity of the hassle plagued tax bitten Blackstone area will do in terms of creating and image of a region of the city that just is not a place to go to. Kind of like Benson, where people detest the parking, so they only go to Benson if they can get a decent priced Uber.omaha79 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:08 amIt's certainly a troubled development. That is for sure.onelocalfoods wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 am I'm not so sure there is a winning formula food wise for MTC.
Its a pass-through neighborhood. Moving Alamo, Culprit, and Modern Love into spaces there was absolutely a win, but I just am not of the belief that outside event times, i.e. jazz on the green etc. That MTC will ever find a formula that makes it go. I agree with the above sentiment that lunch should be a priority for employees in the area, but even with some great changes that they have made recently it never ends on my list of options on a night where the wife and I go out. I hope it finds its way but all and all I just dont know what would even be the right fit anymore.
Both Blackstone and Benson are always busy. You should just stay west of 132nd street and enjoy your life.
Because it not like there are two decent size parking garages that offer three hours free with a buck an.hour maxing out at $10 within a 10 minute walk of the while areabigredmed1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:59 pmNo doubt. Just a hassle. Benson is now a shorthand for bad parking. The Blackstone is similar. With the tax bite added, again, I wonder how long it will be before the MTC and the Blackstone area are seen as more hassle than it is worth.Louie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:22 pmYeah those two spots are literally always busy.Ebburkrevus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:34 pmbigredmed1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:53 amEspecially as there is no place there that is really so good that it would make me drive past all other good places between my house and there. If I am going to drive that far, I have the old market and places like Malara's. I also wonder what the combination of their skunked reputation and the proximity of the hassle plagued tax bitten Blackstone area will do in terms of creating and image of a region of the city that just is not a place to go to. Kind of like Benson, where people detest the parking, so they only go to Benson if they can get a decent priced Uber.omaha79 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:08 amIt's certainly a troubled development. That is for sure.onelocalfoods wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 am I'm not so sure there is a winning formula food wise for MTC.
Its a pass-through neighborhood. Moving Alamo, Culprit, and Modern Love into spaces there was absolutely a win, but I just am not of the belief that outside event times, i.e. jazz on the green etc. That MTC will ever find a formula that makes it go. I agree with the above sentiment that lunch should be a priority for employees in the area, but even with some great changes that they have made recently it never ends on my list of options on a night where the wife and I go out. I hope it finds its way but all and all I just dont know what would even be the right fit anymore.
Both Blackstone and Benson are always busy. You should just stay west of 132nd street and enjoy your life.
If that's how you really feel, you should be ashamed to be a Nebraskan.Ebburkrevus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:34 pm Both Blackstone and Benson are always busy. You should just stay west of 132nd street and enjoy your life.
I agree with this. Overall, MTC has been and will continue to do just fine..Professor Woland wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:55 pm I think the restaurants that failed probably would have failed at most other locations in the city. I actually enjoyed a couple of them. Chicago Dawg was in a bad bay for the kind of restaurant it was, it should have been more in the middle. Crave was a blah type restaurant. Some of the other places there did nothing to differentiate themselves from the competition elsewhere in the city. Della Costa had a number of bad reviews owing to its allegedly confusing menu (I never ate there so I can't really comment on it). Ugly Duck Ramen wasn't as good as many of the other ramen places around town. Ingredient never lived up to the promise of the concept. As far as I can tell the Grey Plume and Modern Love are doing fine because they are well regarded destination restaurants. The development as a whole will be fine in the long run, the area will add more people, after a long period of trial and error a good mix of shops and restaurants will be established and things will work out well.
Honest question, what does that have to do with being Nebraskan?ScrattyB wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:01 amIf that's how you really feel, you should be ashamed to be a Nebraskan.Ebburkrevus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:34 pm Both Blackstone and Benson are always busy. You should just stay west of 132nd street and enjoy your life.
You lose me pretty quickly if you suggest MTC has been and will continue to do just fine. Some turnover is normal. But, you're not seeing this level of turnover at AkSarBen Village compared to MTC. MTC's had a majority of their bays turnover, some multiple times. Some have never been filled and the occupancy rate and caliber of retailers filling the spaces is much lower than other similar developments. Ak has had turnover that's within an expected variance, MTC, not so much.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:02 pmI agree with this. Overall, MTC has been and will continue to do just fine..Professor Woland wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:55 pm I think the restaurants that failed probably would have failed at most other locations in the city. I actually enjoyed a couple of them. Chicago Dawg was in a bad bay for the kind of restaurant it was, it should have been more in the middle. Crave was a blah type restaurant. Some of the other places there did nothing to differentiate themselves from the competition elsewhere in the city. Della Costa had a number of bad reviews owing to its allegedly confusing menu (I never ate there so I can't really comment on it). Ugly Duck Ramen wasn't as good as many of the other ramen places around town. Ingredient never lived up to the promise of the concept. As far as I can tell the Grey Plume and Modern Love are doing fine because they are well regarded destination restaurants. The development as a whole will be fine in the long run, the area will add more people, after a long period of trial and error a good mix of shops and restaurants will be established and things will work out well.
We have a tendency here to “gloom and doom” developments that have had turnover/closures. The news flash is, that’s the nature of retail.. Whether it’s a destination point like MTC or a mall area like Oak View or Westroads..
Cup half full is always a better choice as it relates to analysis of retail destinations. In my opinion anyway ...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
Well put.omaha79 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:21 am You lose me pretty quickly if you suggest MTC has been and will continue to do just fine. Some turnover is normal. But, you're not seeing this level of turnover at AkSarBen Village compared to MTC. MTC's had a majority of their bays turnover, some multiple times. Some have never been filled and the occupancy rate and caliber of retailers filling the spaces is much lower than other similar developments. Ak has had turnover that's within an expected variance, MTC, not so much.
Just like if you compare it to the malls, I'd say Westroads level of turnover and vacancy is within normal for a healthy development. Oak View, not so much.
I’m wondering exactly if there is actually a problem at MTC, or if we’re simply inventing one here? I have heard absolutely nothing that indicates the development is in “trouble” or “not doing fine”.. My question then is, do you have some insider information regarding the development? Are you a member of the MofO Board of Directors? Perhaps you work for the property management company that is responsible for filling in MTC? Unless you are any of these, you’re purely speculating on the condition of MTC..omaha79 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:21 amYou lose me pretty quickly if you suggest MTC has been and will continue to do just fine. Some turnover is normal. But, you're not seeing this level of turnover at AkSarBen Village compared to MTC. MTC's had a majority of their bays turnover, some multiple times. Some have never been filled and the occupancy rate and caliber of retailers filling the spaces is much lower than other similar developments. Ak has had turnover that's within an expected variance, MTC, not so much.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:02 pmI agree with this. Overall, MTC has been and will continue to do just fine..Professor Woland wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:55 pm I think the restaurants that failed probably would have failed at most other locations in the city. I actually enjoyed a couple of them. Chicago Dawg was in a bad bay for the kind of restaurant it was, it should have been more in the middle. Crave was a blah type restaurant. Some of the other places there did nothing to differentiate themselves from the competition elsewhere in the city. Della Costa had a number of bad reviews owing to its allegedly confusing menu (I never ate there so I can't really comment on it). Ugly Duck Ramen wasn't as good as many of the other ramen places around town. Ingredient never lived up to the promise of the concept. As far as I can tell the Grey Plume and Modern Love are doing fine because they are well regarded destination restaurants. The development as a whole will be fine in the long run, the area will add more people, after a long period of trial and error a good mix of shops and restaurants will be established and things will work out well.
We have a tendency here to “gloom and doom” developments that have had turnover/closures. The news flash is, that’s the nature of retail.. Whether it’s a destination point like MTC or a mall area like Oak View or Westroads..
Cup half full is always a better choice as it relates to analysis of retail destinations. In my opinion anyway ...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
Just like if you compare it to the malls, I'd say Westroads level of turnover and vacancy is within normal for a healthy development. Oak View, not so much.
You don't have to be an insider. You just have to use a good old fashioned eye test, have some common sense, and have lived in this city long enough to see a number of retail developments be born, live, and die. There is a cyclical nature to these things that repeat over time.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:17 pmI’m wondering exactly if there is actually a problem at MTC, or if we’re simply inventing one here? I have heard absolutely nothing that indicates the development is in “trouble” or “not doing fine”.. My question then is, do you have some insider information regarding the development? Are you a member of the MofO Board of Directors? Perhaps you work for the property management company that is responsible for filling in MTC? Unless you are any of these, you’re purely speculating on the condition of MTC..omaha79 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:21 amYou lose me pretty quickly if you suggest MTC has been and will continue to do just fine. Some turnover is normal. But, you're not seeing this level of turnover at AkSarBen Village compared to MTC. MTC's had a majority of their bays turnover, some multiple times. Some have never been filled and the occupancy rate and caliber of retailers filling the spaces is much lower than other similar developments. Ak has had turnover that's within an expected variance, MTC, not so much.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:02 pmI agree with this. Overall, MTC has been and will continue to do just fine..Professor Woland wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:55 pm I think the restaurants that failed probably would have failed at most other locations in the city. I actually enjoyed a couple of them. Chicago Dawg was in a bad bay for the kind of restaurant it was, it should have been more in the middle. Crave was a blah type restaurant. Some of the other places there did nothing to differentiate themselves from the competition elsewhere in the city. Della Costa had a number of bad reviews owing to its allegedly confusing menu (I never ate there so I can't really comment on it). Ugly Duck Ramen wasn't as good as many of the other ramen places around town. Ingredient never lived up to the promise of the concept. As far as I can tell the Grey Plume and Modern Love are doing fine because they are well regarded destination restaurants. The development as a whole will be fine in the long run, the area will add more people, after a long period of trial and error a good mix of shops and restaurants will be established and things will work out well.
We have a tendency here to “gloom and doom” developments that have had turnover/closures. The news flash is, that’s the nature of retail.. Whether it’s a destination point like MTC or a mall area like Oak View or Westroads..
Cup half full is always a better choice as it relates to analysis of retail destinations. In my opinion anyway ...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
Just like if you compare it to the malls, I'd say Westroads level of turnover and vacancy is within normal for a healthy development. Oak View, not so much.
To compare it to AK Village is not really an apples to apples comparison either..
Alamo Theater just committed a rather expensive theater refresh at MTC.. and as we know in retail, turnover is the nature of the game, it happens. But it doesn’t mean MTC isn’t doing okay..and I’ve heard nothing to lead me to believe otherwise..
Cup half full.. Remember?...
Ciao.. LiO...Peace
Your “eye test” and common sense should also tell you that a successful national movie chain like Alamo wouldn’t commit millions of dollars for a significant movie theater/restaurant refresh if they felt the MTC development was not a “healthy organization” either..omaha79 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:39 pmYou don't have to be an insider. You just have to use a good old fashioned eye test, have some common sense, and have lived in this city long enough to see a number of retail developments be born, live, and die. There is a cyclical nature to these things that repeat over time.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:17 pmI’m wondering exactly if there is actually a problem at MTC, or if we’re simply inventing one here? I have heard absolutely nothing that indicates the development is in “trouble” or “not doing fine”.. My question then is, do you have some insider information regarding the development? Are you a member of the MofO Board of Directors? Perhaps you work for the property management company that is responsible for filling in MTC? Unless you are any of these, you’re purely speculating on the condition of MTC..omaha79 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:21 amYou lose me pretty quickly if you suggest MTC has been and will continue to do just fine. Some turnover is normal. But, you're not seeing this level of turnover at AkSarBen Village compared to MTC. MTC's had a majority of their bays turnover, some multiple times. Some have never been filled and the occupancy rate and caliber of retailers filling the spaces is much lower than other similar developments. Ak has had turnover that's within an expected variance, MTC, not so much.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:02 pmI agree with this. Overall, MTC has been and will continue to do just fine..Professor Woland wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:55 pm I think the restaurants that failed probably would have failed at most other locations in the city. I actually enjoyed a couple of them. Chicago Dawg was in a bad bay for the kind of restaurant it was, it should have been more in the middle. Crave was a blah type restaurant. Some of the other places there did nothing to differentiate themselves from the competition elsewhere in the city. Della Costa had a number of bad reviews owing to its allegedly confusing menu (I never ate there so I can't really comment on it). Ugly Duck Ramen wasn't as good as many of the other ramen places around town. Ingredient never lived up to the promise of the concept. As far as I can tell the Grey Plume and Modern Love are doing fine because they are well regarded destination restaurants. The development as a whole will be fine in the long run, the area will add more people, after a long period of trial and error a good mix of shops and restaurants will be established and things will work out well.
We have a tendency here to “gloom and doom” developments that have had turnover/closures. The news flash is, that’s the nature of retail.. Whether it’s a destination point like MTC or a mall area like Oak View or Westroads..
Cup half full is always a better choice as it relates to analysis of retail destinations. In my opinion anyway ...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
Just like if you compare it to the malls, I'd say Westroads level of turnover and vacancy is within normal for a healthy development. Oak View, not so much.
To compare it to AK Village is not really an apples to apples comparison either..
Alamo Theater just committed a rather expensive theater refresh at MTC.. and as we know in retail, turnover is the nature of the game, it happens. But it doesn’t mean MTC isn’t doing okay..and I’ve heard nothing to lead me to believe otherwise..
Cup half full.. Remember?...
Ciao.. LiO...Peace
Now, I have heard some second hand insider information that multiple tenants at MTC are either being actively subsidized to stay open or are receiving drastically reduced rent by the real estate arm of Mutual of Omaha. I cannot confirm this and I cannot state whether or not these practices are par for the course with commercial realty.
I'd prefer to just look at what my eyes tell me every day when I drive down Farnam with multiple bays shuttered, some for years now. This simply isn't normal for a "healthy" organization.
Agreed, except for the Oak View part. I don't think any recovery plan for that structure exists. But that's just an opinion.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:38 pmYour “eye test” and common sense should also tell you that a successful national movie chain like Alamo wouldn’t commit millions of dollars for a significant movie theater/restaurant refresh if they felt the MTC development was not a “healthy organization” either..omaha79 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:39 pmYou don't have to be an insider. You just have to use a good old fashioned eye test, have some common sense, and have lived in this city long enough to see a number of retail developments be born, live, and die. There is a cyclical nature to these things that repeat over time.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:17 pmI’m wondering exactly if there is actually a problem at MTC, or if we’re simply inventing one here? I have heard absolutely nothing that indicates the development is in “trouble” or “not doing fine”.. My question then is, do you have some insider information regarding the development? Are you a member of the MofO Board of Directors? Perhaps you work for the property management company that is responsible for filling in MTC? Unless you are any of these, you’re purely speculating on the condition of MTC..omaha79 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:21 amYou lose me pretty quickly if you suggest MTC has been and will continue to do just fine. Some turnover is normal. But, you're not seeing this level of turnover at AkSarBen Village compared to MTC. MTC's had a majority of their bays turnover, some multiple times. Some have never been filled and the occupancy rate and caliber of retailers filling the spaces is much lower than other similar developments. Ak has had turnover that's within an expected variance, MTC, not so much.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:02 pmI agree with this. Overall, MTC has been and will continue to do just fine..Professor Woland wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:55 pm I think the restaurants that failed probably would have failed at most other locations in the city. I actually enjoyed a couple of them. Chicago Dawg was in a bad bay for the kind of restaurant it was, it should have been more in the middle. Crave was a blah type restaurant. Some of the other places there did nothing to differentiate themselves from the competition elsewhere in the city. Della Costa had a number of bad reviews owing to its allegedly confusing menu (I never ate there so I can't really comment on it). Ugly Duck Ramen wasn't as good as many of the other ramen places around town. Ingredient never lived up to the promise of the concept. As far as I can tell the Grey Plume and Modern Love are doing fine because they are well regarded destination restaurants. The development as a whole will be fine in the long run, the area will add more people, after a long period of trial and error a good mix of shops and restaurants will be established and things will work out well.
We have a tendency here to “gloom and doom” developments that have had turnover/closures. The news flash is, that’s the nature of retail.. Whether it’s a destination point like MTC or a mall area like Oak View or Westroads..
Cup half full is always a better choice as it relates to analysis of retail destinations. In my opinion anyway ...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
Just like if you compare it to the malls, I'd say Westroads level of turnover and vacancy is within normal for a healthy development. Oak View, not so much.
To compare it to AK Village is not really an apples to apples comparison either..
Alamo Theater just committed a rather expensive theater refresh at MTC.. and as we know in retail, turnover is the nature of the game, it happens. But it doesn’t mean MTC isn’t doing okay..and I’ve heard nothing to lead me to believe otherwise..
Cup half full.. Remember?...
Ciao.. LiO...Peace
Now, I have heard some second hand insider information that multiple tenants at MTC are either being actively subsidized to stay open or are receiving drastically reduced rent by the real estate arm of Mutual of Omaha. I cannot confirm this and I cannot state whether or not these practices are par for the course with commercial realty.
I'd prefer to just look at what my eyes tell me every day when I drive down Farnam with multiple bays shuttered, some for years now. This simply isn't normal for a "healthy" organization.
Just like our back and forth on your gloom and doom “dying mall” narrative in the Oak View Mall thread, I don’t see your death cycle narrative fitting in with Midtown Crossing either..
My opinion is we are inventing a “MTC is in trouble” narrative in this thread with no real inside proof that the development is in trouble at all. I wonder what MofO thinks, lol..
In the end, you’re entitled to your opinion..although in mine, you’re being a smidge reckless...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
There could be many reasons for them to do this that could go beyond the health of the development as a whole. Alamo may see their business model as having a high probability for success whether or not the rest of the stores are successful. They are a destination in and of themselves. Also, we don't know what level, if any, their rent was cut or subsidized to entice them to move in.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:38 pmYour “eye test” and common sense should also tell you that a successful national movie chain like Alamo wouldn’t commit millions of dollars for a significant movie theater/restaurant refresh if they felt the MTC development was not a “healthy organization” either..omaha79 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:39 pmYou don't have to be an insider. You just have to use a good old fashioned eye test, have some common sense, and have lived in this city long enough to see a number of retail developments be born, live, and die. There is a cyclical nature to these things that repeat over time.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:17 pmI’m wondering exactly if there is actually a problem at MTC, or if we’re simply inventing one here? I have heard absolutely nothing that indicates the development is in “trouble” or “not doing fine”.. My question then is, do you have some insider information regarding the development? Are you a member of the MofO Board of Directors? Perhaps you work for the property management company that is responsible for filling in MTC? Unless you are any of these, you’re purely speculating on the condition of MTC..omaha79 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:21 amYou lose me pretty quickly if you suggest MTC has been and will continue to do just fine. Some turnover is normal. But, you're not seeing this level of turnover at AkSarBen Village compared to MTC. MTC's had a majority of their bays turnover, some multiple times. Some have never been filled and the occupancy rate and caliber of retailers filling the spaces is much lower than other similar developments. Ak has had turnover that's within an expected variance, MTC, not so much.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:02 pmI agree with this. Overall, MTC has been and will continue to do just fine..Professor Woland wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:55 pm I think the restaurants that failed probably would have failed at most other locations in the city. I actually enjoyed a couple of them. Chicago Dawg was in a bad bay for the kind of restaurant it was, it should have been more in the middle. Crave was a blah type restaurant. Some of the other places there did nothing to differentiate themselves from the competition elsewhere in the city. Della Costa had a number of bad reviews owing to its allegedly confusing menu (I never ate there so I can't really comment on it). Ugly Duck Ramen wasn't as good as many of the other ramen places around town. Ingredient never lived up to the promise of the concept. As far as I can tell the Grey Plume and Modern Love are doing fine because they are well regarded destination restaurants. The development as a whole will be fine in the long run, the area will add more people, after a long period of trial and error a good mix of shops and restaurants will be established and things will work out well.
We have a tendency here to “gloom and doom” developments that have had turnover/closures. The news flash is, that’s the nature of retail.. Whether it’s a destination point like MTC or a mall area like Oak View or Westroads..
Cup half full is always a better choice as it relates to analysis of retail destinations. In my opinion anyway ...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
Just like if you compare it to the malls, I'd say Westroads level of turnover and vacancy is within normal for a healthy development. Oak View, not so much.
To compare it to AK Village is not really an apples to apples comparison either..
Alamo Theater just committed a rather expensive theater refresh at MTC.. and as we know in retail, turnover is the nature of the game, it happens. But it doesn’t mean MTC isn’t doing okay..and I’ve heard nothing to lead me to believe otherwise..
Cup half full.. Remember?...
Ciao.. LiO...Peace
Now, I have heard some second hand insider information that multiple tenants at MTC are either being actively subsidized to stay open or are receiving drastically reduced rent by the real estate arm of Mutual of Omaha. I cannot confirm this and I cannot state whether or not these practices are par for the course with commercial realty.
I'd prefer to just look at what my eyes tell me every day when I drive down Farnam with multiple bays shuttered, some for years now. This simply isn't normal for a "healthy" organization.
Just like our back and forth on your gloom and doom “dying mall” narrative in the Oak View Mall thread, I don’t see your death cycle narrative fitting in with Midtown Crossing either..
My opinion is we are inventing a “MTC is in trouble” narrative in this thread with no real inside proof that the development is in trouble at all. I wonder what MofO thinks, lol..
In the end, you’re entitled to your opinion..although in mine, you’re being a smidge reckless...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
Lol..omaha79 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:37 pmThere could be many reasons for them to do this that could go beyond the health of the development as a whole. Alamo may see their business model as having a high probability for success whether or not the rest of the stores are successful. They are a destination in and of themselves. Also, we don't know what level, if any, their rent was cut or subsidized to entice them to move in.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:38 pmYour “eye test” and common sense should also tell you that a successful national movie chain like Alamo wouldn’t commit millions of dollars for a significant movie theater/restaurant refresh if they felt the MTC development was not a “healthy organization” either..omaha79 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:39 pmYou don't have to be an insider. You just have to use a good old fashioned eye test, have some common sense, and have lived in this city long enough to see a number of retail developments be born, live, and die. There is a cyclical nature to these things that repeat over time.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:17 pmI’m wondering exactly if there is actually a problem at MTC, or if we’re simply inventing one here? I have heard absolutely nothing that indicates the development is in “trouble” or “not doing fine”.. My question then is, do you have some insider information regarding the development? Are you a member of the MofO Board of Directors? Perhaps you work for the property management company that is responsible for filling in MTC? Unless you are any of these, you’re purely speculating on the condition of MTC..omaha79 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:21 amYou lose me pretty quickly if you suggest MTC has been and will continue to do just fine. Some turnover is normal. But, you're not seeing this level of turnover at AkSarBen Village compared to MTC. MTC's had a majority of their bays turnover, some multiple times. Some have never been filled and the occupancy rate and caliber of retailers filling the spaces is much lower than other similar developments. Ak has had turnover that's within an expected variance, MTC, not so much.Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:02 pmI agree with this. Overall, MTC has been and will continue to do just fine..Professor Woland wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:55 pm I think the restaurants that failed probably would have failed at most other locations in the city. I actually enjoyed a couple of them. Chicago Dawg was in a bad bay for the kind of restaurant it was, it should have been more in the middle. Crave was a blah type restaurant. Some of the other places there did nothing to differentiate themselves from the competition elsewhere in the city. Della Costa had a number of bad reviews owing to its allegedly confusing menu (I never ate there so I can't really comment on it). Ugly Duck Ramen wasn't as good as many of the other ramen places around town. Ingredient never lived up to the promise of the concept. As far as I can tell the Grey Plume and Modern Love are doing fine because they are well regarded destination restaurants. The development as a whole will be fine in the long run, the area will add more people, after a long period of trial and error a good mix of shops and restaurants will be established and things will work out well.
We have a tendency here to “gloom and doom” developments that have had turnover/closures. The news flash is, that’s the nature of retail.. Whether it’s a destination point like MTC or a mall area like Oak View or Westroads..
Cup half full is always a better choice as it relates to analysis of retail destinations. In my opinion anyway ...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
Just like if you compare it to the malls, I'd say Westroads level of turnover and vacancy is within normal for a healthy development. Oak View, not so much.
To compare it to AK Village is not really an apples to apples comparison either..
Alamo Theater just committed a rather expensive theater refresh at MTC.. and as we know in retail, turnover is the nature of the game, it happens. But it doesn’t mean MTC isn’t doing okay..and I’ve heard nothing to lead me to believe otherwise..
Cup half full.. Remember?...
Ciao.. LiO...Peace
Now, I have heard some second hand insider information that multiple tenants at MTC are either being actively subsidized to stay open or are receiving drastically reduced rent by the real estate arm of Mutual of Omaha. I cannot confirm this and I cannot state whether or not these practices are par for the course with commercial realty.
I'd prefer to just look at what my eyes tell me every day when I drive down Farnam with multiple bays shuttered, some for years now. This simply isn't normal for a "healthy" organization.
Just like our back and forth on your gloom and doom “dying mall” narrative in the Oak View Mall thread, I don’t see your death cycle narrative fitting in with Midtown Crossing either..
My opinion is we are inventing a “MTC is in trouble” narrative in this thread with no real inside proof that the development is in trouble at all. I wonder what MofO thinks, lol..
In the end, you’re entitled to your opinion..although in mine, you’re being a smidge reckless...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
I've lived in Omaha long enough to see the decline of so many retail destinations. Whether you are talking about The Center, Crossroads, Southroads, and numerous other strip mall developments. These things have similar patterns if you know what you are looking at. I see warning signs at both MTC and Oak View that are similar in nature to the spirals that these other developments went though. Now, MTC is in better shape than Oak View and fundamentally, I think they have a shot. I'm just saying there are clear warning signs.
As for what MOO thinks? I don't know. Do we know for sure that MOO is even going to stay in Mid Town? I find it odd that they released the story in the OWH nearly a year ago and said they anticipated breaking ground by mid 2019 for roughly a 2022 opening. It's nearly mid 2019 and we don't even have a location announced. This is also a warning sign to me, at least in the short term. I used to think it unfathomable that MOO would leave this area...now, I'm not sure.
We don't want to bury our heads in the sand and act like there aren't concerns. We risk looking like the Iraqi information minister circa 2003 claiming everything was fine while tanks were rolling in behind him. I want MTC to succeed. I can't ignore what my eyes tell me.
I agree with most of this, but I will take exception to your analogy of Countryside Village. It was getting wiped out of old tenants and these tenants went elsewhere where they have stayed in business and even thrived. I recall that the owner had transferred control to the next generation and the new boss wanted to coordinate the shops there so that more young people would go there. This was seen then as a sketchy plan, but it has worked OK so far. I don't see the same vision for MTC.Professor Woland wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:41 pm I think where MTC got off on the wrong foot was the types of tenants they targeted. Some have done very well (Hutch, the Grey Plume, the hotel) but many others flopped. It seemed like they were going for a lot of new to the city brands that didn't exactly wow anyone. Some of the local options flopped too, but in every case I can think of the problem wasn't MTC per se. I think there is a tendency on this board to look at any problem with anything in Omaha, exaggerate it to the nth degree and then compare it with some fantasy version of some other city. MTC might not be living up to Mutual's expectations, or its potential, but it's not dying. Nor does frequent turnover signal impending doom, just look at Countryside Village; I think a couple of years ago most observers would have written it off as destined for the wrecking ball, now it's thriving. As the population in Midtown and Blackstone continues to grow MTC will benefit. When Mutual envisioned the development they wanted to transform the area. In some ways I think they've succeeded, I don't think the Blackstone revival would have happened to near the scale it has, if at all, without MTC. The changes for the better to the area between the development and the Interstate haven't yet happened as planned, but given time, they will.
Lol..omaha79 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:02 am "normal retail turnover" should never equate to roughly 40% standing vacancy rate. Period.
That's the definition of burying your head in the sand.
And, you have one person painting a rosy image of Oak View. Again, I can go off of roughly the last 7 years of a slow decline with nothing that's really stemmed the tide, but if that one interview makes you feel better, go for it. I think there's a fair bit of confirmation bias in that though.
Take a walk around MTC and tell me everything is fine. Should start calling you Baghdad Bob! LOL!Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:08 pmLol..omaha79 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:02 am "normal retail turnover" should never equate to roughly 40% standing vacancy rate. Period.
That's the definition of burying your head in the sand.
And, you have one person painting a rosy image of Oak View. Again, I can go off of roughly the last 7 years of a slow decline with nothing that's really stemmed the tide, but if that one interview makes you feel better, go for it. I think there's a fair bit of confirmation bias in that though.
In any case, when that one person is a trusted expert in the Omaha retail scene and General Manager of Westroads, I tend to trust his opinions over an “eyeball” test.. Jim Sadler is not GM for Oakview, so I don’t get where there’d be much “bias” in his opinion..
Anywho..
Keep your vision sharp. I’ll be looking forward to your next “eyeball test” death cycle ...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
And 5 years from now, when MTC is still standing and doing business/commerce, your “eyeball test” will have failed you once again..omaha79 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:09 pmTake a walk around MTC and tell me everything is fine. Should start calling you Baghdad Bob! LOL!Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:08 pmLol..omaha79 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:02 am "normal retail turnover" should never equate to roughly 40% standing vacancy rate. Period.
That's the definition of burying your head in the sand.
And, you have one person painting a rosy image of Oak View. Again, I can go off of roughly the last 7 years of a slow decline with nothing that's really stemmed the tide, but if that one interview makes you feel better, go for it. I think there's a fair bit of confirmation bias in that though.
In any case, when that one person is a trusted expert in the Omaha retail scene and General Manager of Westroads, I tend to trust his opinions over an “eyeball” test.. Jim Sadler is not GM for Oakview, so I don’t get where there’d be much “bias” in his opinion..
Anywho..
Keep your vision sharp. I’ll be looking forward to your next “eyeball test” death cycle ...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
Now you're moving the goalposts!Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:30 pmAnd 5 years from now, when MTC is still standing and doing business/commerce, your “eyeball test” will have failed you once again..omaha79 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:09 pmTake a walk around MTC and tell me everything is fine. Should start calling you Baghdad Bob! LOL!Omaha Cowboy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:08 pmLol..omaha79 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:02 am "normal retail turnover" should never equate to roughly 40% standing vacancy rate. Period.
That's the definition of burying your head in the sand.
And, you have one person painting a rosy image of Oak View. Again, I can go off of roughly the last 7 years of a slow decline with nothing that's really stemmed the tide, but if that one interview makes you feel better, go for it. I think there's a fair bit of confirmation bias in that though.
In any case, when that one person is a trusted expert in the Omaha retail scene and General Manager of Westroads, I tend to trust his opinions over an “eyeball” test.. Jim Sadler is not GM for Oakview, so I don’t get where there’d be much “bias” in his opinion..
Anywho..
Keep your vision sharp. I’ll be looking forward to your next “eyeball test” death cycle ...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
I go through the MTC development about 2 times a week. MTC is fine. Like I said earlier, if you choose this forum to manufacture a MTC problem that doesn’t exist, that’s okay I guess..
Your continual proclamations for retail death cycles are akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater. Your opinion is basically a party of one...
Ciao..LiO...Peace