Gun Control

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S33
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Post by S33 »

The prison system itself serves its intended purpose, it's the judicial system and our |expletive| up laws which crowd our prisions with non-violent offenders, offenders which find themselves behind bars without ever having harmed or violated another individual's rights.

And I agree about our mental health system. Clearly, something is not working. But I also don't think "fixing" the system should include a "crazy man" witchhunt, either. There really are no easy solutions.
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Post by jessep28 »

Judging from the reaction to today's Supreme Court ruling on an Arizona election law, it's funny that some think that reasonable gun control measures like background checks impose an undue burden on a citizen's 2nd Amendment Rights, but it's totally okay for the state to require you to prove beyond a doubt that you can exercise your right to vote.
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Post by bigredmed »

Clarification:  nobody objects to providing ID when you buy a firearm.  People were angry about specifics about the proposal.
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S33
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Post by S33 »

Unfortunately, the entire discussion turned into a political pis$ing match, and you can attribute that to talking heads like Piers Morgan and Alex Jones. I think we all knew nothing meaningful was going to come from that.
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Post by Linkin5 »

S33 wrote:Unfortunately, the entire discussion turned into a political pis$ing match, and you can attribute that to talking heads like Piers Morgan and Alex Jones. I think we all knew nothing meaningful was going to come from that.
If those two people died, I think we would be just fine.
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Post by jessep28 »

Linkin5 wrote:
S33 wrote:Unfortunately, the entire discussion turned into a political pis$ing match, and you can attribute that to talking heads like Piers Morgan and Alex Jones. I think we all knew nothing meaningful was going to come from that.
If those two people died, I think we would be just fine.
And Geraldo.
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S33
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Post by S33 »

Agree and agree.
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Post by jessep28 »

If you thin Alex Jones is bad, listen to 1110 KFAB after Midnight when Coast to Coast AM comes on. They talk about all kinds of stuff like government conspiracies, shadow people, UFO's, the Bermuda Triangle, etc.
Last edited by jessep28 on Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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cp jay 07
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Post by cp jay 07 »

jessep28 wrote:If you thin Alex Jones is bad, listen to 1110 KFAB after Midnight when Coast to Coast AM comes on. They talk about all kinds of stuff like government conspiracies, shadow people, UFO's, the Bermuda Triangle, etc.
So all the stuff thats real?
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Post by jessep28 »

cp jay 07 wrote:
jessep28 wrote:If you thin Alex Jones is bad, listen to 1110 KFAB after Midnight when Coast to Coast AM comes on. They talk about all kinds of stuff like government conspiracies, shadow people, UFO's, the Bermuda Triangle, etc.
So all the stuff thats real?
Yes, there are UFO's that use lasers to suck water up by altering the earth's gravitational field.
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Post by Coyote »

Is Art Bell still around? I thought a UFO abducted him to keep him silenced.
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Post by jessep28 »

Coyote wrote:Is Art Bell still around? I thought a UFO abducted him to keep him silenced.
No, George Noory is the host now.
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Post by guitarguy »

God coast to coast has haunted me for years.. many a late nights spent driving around tipsy/exhausted and being too lazy to switch the station. Whoever produces that show is Bat $hizz crazy!

-adam
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S33
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Post by S33 »

Can't believe I'm even going to admit this, but I actually like listening to the Coast to Coast show, or at least youtube clips, here and there. (I've never listened to AM radio past working hours)

I think most of it is bullsh*t, obviously, but some of it is pretty fascinating - if for nothing else than to get inside the mind of a few crazy people.
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Post by Coyote »

But you have to wonder if these people are really crazy and believe what they are talking about, or if this is just another version of 'shock radio'.
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Post by S33 »

Coyote wrote:But you have to wonder if these people are really crazy and believe what they are talking about, or if this is just another version of 'shock radio'.
A lot of both, I'm sure. The funniest I heard, was some idiot calling into the show from his single engine cessna, attempting to land his plane at area 51, all while giving play-by-play of the entire event on live radio................. until he was shot down. LOL!!!!
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Post by Coyote »

Didn't believe you, but:

[youtube][/youtube]
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Post by S33 »

I still laugh, everytime
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Post by jessep28 »

I think that Area 51 call is totally fake, but still hilarious. I question whether the hosts of that show are seriously interviewing the people, or are just experts at deadpan trolling.
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Post by Coyote »

jessep28 wrote:
Coyote wrote:Is Art Bell still around? I thought a UFO abducted him to keep him silenced.
No, George Noory is the host now.
Legendary Art Bell returning to airwaves

Thanks god it is on Sirius. I was about to say that the airwaves are no longer safe after midnight again...
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Re: Gun Control

Post by bigredmed »

Drudging this back up. Sorry if it is tiresome.

The chick that did the strawman purchase for the gun that killed Kerri Orozco got a whopping 1 year of probation. Now, tell me that is really getting tough on gun crime.

She should do a couple of years of real prison, face a lifetime as a felon without any possibility of parole or pardon, and be permanently banned from owning firearms or even being in a gun store.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by jessep28 »

bigredmed wrote:Drudging this back up. Sorry if it is tiresome.

The chick that did the strawman purchase for the gun that killed Kerri Orozco got a whopping 1 year of probation. Now, tell me that is really getting tough on gun crime.

She should do a couple of years of real prison, face a lifetime as a felon without any possibility of parole or pardon, and be permanently banned from owning firearms or even being in a gun store.
This was a federal case, and the judge's hands were likely tied due to sentencing guidelines. She wasn't the one committing a felony with a firearm after lying on the form to obtain it, so that kind of put her in an "everybody else" part of the guideline, which carries a substantially lighter sentence.

http://www.ussc.gov/guidelines-manual/2011/2011-2k21
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Re: Gun Control

Post by lmdramos »

According to the Omaha Police Department's Union page or something (I saw it on Facebook), the judge had the opportunity to sentence her to up to 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by bigredmed »

The FFL transfer form has a bold type printed warning that says plainly that lying is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.

I hope our DA takes this opportunity to add and enforce gun charges as often as possible and enforce the separate sentence for it vs the central crime.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Dundeemaha »

bigredmed wrote:
As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.
What liberal you know scoffs at increased enforcement of gun control laws? Every liberal I know including myself wants more restrictions and more enforcement of existing laws.

I do know a few conservatives who scoff at gun control laws.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Linkin5 »

Dundeemaha wrote:
bigredmed wrote:
As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.
What liberal you know scoffs at increased enforcement of gun control laws? Every liberal I know including myself wants more restrictions and more enforcement of existing laws.

I do know a few conservatives who scoff at gun control laws.
Yeah I was going to say, I think he has that backwards.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by bigredmed »

Dundeemaha wrote:
bigredmed wrote:
As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.
What liberal you know scoffs at increased enforcement of gun control laws? Every liberal I know including myself wants more restrictions and more enforcement of existing laws.

I do know a few conservatives who scoff at gun control laws.
Not more laws, more use of the ones we have.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by EastCB »

:clap: :clap:
bigredmed wrote:
Dundeemaha wrote:
bigredmed wrote:
As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.
What liberal you know scoffs at increased enforcement of gun control laws? Every liberal I know including myself wants more restrictions and more enforcement of existing laws.

I do know a few conservatives who scoff at gun control laws.
Not more laws, more use of the ones we have.
Yes enforce what we have, :clap:
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Omaha1000 »

I'm somewhere left of center and spent my formative growing up years in Japan, which has almost no handguns and almost zero gun violence. Therefore, I personally don't understand the emotional attachment to guns and why so many people oppose efforts to ban semi-automatics and to make hand guns more difficult to acquire.

HOWEVER, before conservatives become angry at my views, I understand that it seems that the majority of people do not share my opinion. I recently saw a recent Gallop Poll that showed that 58% of Americans currently have a positive view of the NRA. It seems to me that most (a small, but real majority) Americans still do not want gun changes even though so many Americans are killed by gun violence. Therefore, I think that Democrats should not focus on this issue. It is a lost cause, at least for this generation.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by bigredmed »

To ban something you have to pass 4th amendment restriction on laws being precise. When it comes to mechanical devices like guns, either you go Clinton and produce a narrowly drawn bill that ends up doing nothing or you write a bill so broad, you end up banning stuff you don't want to ban simply because they share common mechanical features.

This results in laws that under perform or overreach. Both fail ultimately. Underperforming laws get dumped. Overreaching laws get overturned. See Roe v Wade. Gun control and abortion are very similar. We accept that there are people who are sexually reckless and use abortion like a safety net and we also understand that other women getting them may well be in danger and getting one because they have no other option. To pass a law restraining repeat users from getting frequent flyer miles at the clinic will affect these other women who really need it for some reason. We could write a law making them illegal like the one RvW overturned, and the women who are in a horror show come to life will be even more screwed over. We could write a law that works around these people and we create enough loopholes that we end up letting the reckless people through.

Same with guns. I have guns. Several are 100years old or close to it. So far in their century of existence, they have harmed no one. To punish me and deny my civil right to hunt or shoot targets is overreaching. This never works.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Omaha1000 »

I did not propose that someone come take away your hunting guns, nor your antique guns. If I was "King of the world", I would still think that you should continue to own those guns in your collection. For that matter, I have not heard any proposals that would include taking away the guns that you own.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by bigredmed »

Omaha1000 wrote:I did not propose that someone come take away your hunting guns, nor your antique guns. If I was "King of the world", I would still think that you should continue to own those guns in your collection. For that matter, I have not heard any proposals that would include taking away the guns that you own.
Hillary Clinton recently endorsed a plan to do an Australian gun buy back plan. They called it a buy back, but the Australians were banned from not selling them back to the government. So, the Gov sent the token price and you were forced to take it and surrender your gun or go to prison.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hil ... 6a900c5d67
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Re: Gun Control

Post by jessep28 »

I signed up for PACER to try and find the sentencing opinion, but I'm waiting for an activation token to be mailed to me in 7-10 business days. That's government for you.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by TLGJames »

bigredmed wrote:
Dundeemaha wrote:
bigredmed wrote:
As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.
What liberal you know scoffs at increased enforcement of gun control laws? Every liberal I know including myself wants more restrictions and more enforcement of existing laws.

I do know a few conservatives who scoff at gun control laws.
Not more laws, more use of the ones we have.
The NRA literally lobbies politicians to take away money from the ATF which is suppose to be enforcing the laws. They even literally wrote amendments into new laws that make it even harder for them to do anything. They literally had it written into law that the ATF chief had to be confirmed by the Senate, so for years they had no Chief because of currently political divide.

I'm not anti guns at all, but I'm very anti NRA.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by GetUrban »

I wonder if the Republicans/NRA would object to banning non-citizen's right to bear arms, such as Syrian refugees, or ISIS sympathizers. GOP seems to want to ban all Syrian refugees from entering the USA regardless.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by jessep28 »

Leadership appointments for several agencies are subject to Senate confirmation. FBI and IRS directors to name two others. I doubt the ATF appointment provision was something shoehorned in by the NRA.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Uffda »

jessep28 wrote: I doubt the ATF appointment provision was something shoehorned in by the NRA.
A little research shows that is probably how it happened.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by jessep28 »

Uffda wrote:
jessep28 wrote: I doubt the ATF appointment provision was something shoehorned in by the NRA.
A little research shows that is probably how it happened.
There are over 1,000 federal government positions which are subject to presidential nomination and Senate confirmation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... nfirmation.

It would be ludicrous to have the appointment of the Deputy Under Secretary for Logistics and Materiel Readiness subject to Senate approval, but not the director of a major federal law enforcement agency.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Joe_Sovereign »

First Gun related deaths in the US are greatly exaggerated by including suicide numbers and then gun control activists try to use this larger number to create the gun panic to promote their agenda.

Just looked it up. Suicide is the reason for 60% of all US Gun Deaths. If stopping suicide is a valid reason to restrict guns that is a separate discussion than "Bad Guys with Guns".

The actual perpetrators and victims of the vast majority of American gun crime were identified earlier in this thread but the whole topic was ignored. Despite there being more guns in the US than people, somewhere north of 80% of gun homicides are committed by people connected with criminal drug gangs and huge numbers of the victims are as well. Legalization of some drugs to cut off funding to the gangs and vigorous criminal conspiracy prosecution could dramatically reduce gun crime.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Uffda »

jessep28 wrote:
Uffda wrote:
jessep28 wrote: I doubt the ATF appointment provision was something shoehorned in by the NRA.
A little research shows that is probably how it happened.
There are over 1,000 federal government positions which are subject to presidential nomination and Senate confirmation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... nfirmation.

It would be ludicrous to have the appointment of the Deputy Under Secretary for Logistics and Materiel Readiness subject to Senate approval, but not the director of a major federal law enforcement agency.
I didn't say that the person shouldn't be confirmed. I was commenting on the NRA involvement.
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