Gun Control
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The prison system itself serves its intended purpose, it's the judicial system and our |expletive| up laws which crowd our prisions with non-violent offenders, offenders which find themselves behind bars without ever having harmed or violated another individual's rights.
And I agree about our mental health system. Clearly, something is not working. But I also don't think "fixing" the system should include a "crazy man" witchhunt, either. There really are no easy solutions.
And I agree about our mental health system. Clearly, something is not working. But I also don't think "fixing" the system should include a "crazy man" witchhunt, either. There really are no easy solutions.
Judging from the reaction to today's Supreme Court ruling on an Arizona election law, it's funny that some think that reasonable gun control measures like background checks impose an undue burden on a citizen's 2nd Amendment Rights, but it's totally okay for the state to require you to prove beyond a doubt that you can exercise your right to vote.
Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum
Unfortunately, the entire discussion turned into a political pis$ing match, and you can attribute that to talking heads like Piers Morgan and Alex Jones. I think we all knew nothing meaningful was going to come from that.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill
And Geraldo.Linkin5 wrote:If those two people died, I think we would be just fine.S33 wrote:Unfortunately, the entire discussion turned into a political pis$ing match, and you can attribute that to talking heads like Piers Morgan and Alex Jones. I think we all knew nothing meaningful was going to come from that.
Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum
If you thin Alex Jones is bad, listen to 1110 KFAB after Midnight when Coast to Coast AM comes on. They talk about all kinds of stuff like government conspiracies, shadow people, UFO's, the Bermuda Triangle, etc.
Last edited by jessep28 on Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum
Yes, there are UFO's that use lasers to suck water up by altering the earth's gravitational field.cp jay 07 wrote:So all the stuff thats real?jessep28 wrote:If you thin Alex Jones is bad, listen to 1110 KFAB after Midnight when Coast to Coast AM comes on. They talk about all kinds of stuff like government conspiracies, shadow people, UFO's, the Bermuda Triangle, etc.
Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum
Can't believe I'm even going to admit this, but I actually like listening to the Coast to Coast show, or at least youtube clips, here and there. (I've never listened to AM radio past working hours)
I think most of it is bullsh*t, obviously, but some of it is pretty fascinating - if for nothing else than to get inside the mind of a few crazy people.
I think most of it is bullsh*t, obviously, but some of it is pretty fascinating - if for nothing else than to get inside the mind of a few crazy people.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill
A lot of both, I'm sure. The funniest I heard, was some idiot calling into the show from his single engine cessna, attempting to land his plane at area 51, all while giving play-by-play of the entire event on live radio................. until he was shot down. LOL!!!!Coyote wrote:But you have to wonder if these people are really crazy and believe what they are talking about, or if this is just another version of 'shock radio'.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill
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Legendary Art Bell returning to airwavesjessep28 wrote:No, George Noory is the host now.Coyote wrote:Is Art Bell still around? I thought a UFO abducted him to keep him silenced.
Thanks god it is on Sirius. I was about to say that the airwaves are no longer safe after midnight again...
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Re: Gun Control
Drudging this back up. Sorry if it is tiresome.
The chick that did the strawman purchase for the gun that killed Kerri Orozco got a whopping 1 year of probation. Now, tell me that is really getting tough on gun crime.
She should do a couple of years of real prison, face a lifetime as a felon without any possibility of parole or pardon, and be permanently banned from owning firearms or even being in a gun store.
The chick that did the strawman purchase for the gun that killed Kerri Orozco got a whopping 1 year of probation. Now, tell me that is really getting tough on gun crime.
She should do a couple of years of real prison, face a lifetime as a felon without any possibility of parole or pardon, and be permanently banned from owning firearms or even being in a gun store.
Re: Gun Control
This was a federal case, and the judge's hands were likely tied due to sentencing guidelines. She wasn't the one committing a felony with a firearm after lying on the form to obtain it, so that kind of put her in an "everybody else" part of the guideline, which carries a substantially lighter sentence.bigredmed wrote:Drudging this back up. Sorry if it is tiresome.
The chick that did the strawman purchase for the gun that killed Kerri Orozco got a whopping 1 year of probation. Now, tell me that is really getting tough on gun crime.
She should do a couple of years of real prison, face a lifetime as a felon without any possibility of parole or pardon, and be permanently banned from owning firearms or even being in a gun store.
http://www.ussc.gov/guidelines-manual/2011/2011-2k21
Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum
Re: Gun Control
According to the Omaha Police Department's Union page or something (I saw it on Facebook), the judge had the opportunity to sentence her to up to 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
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Re: Gun Control
The FFL transfer form has a bold type printed warning that says plainly that lying is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison.
As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.
I hope our DA takes this opportunity to add and enforce gun charges as often as possible and enforce the separate sentence for it vs the central crime.
As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.
I hope our DA takes this opportunity to add and enforce gun charges as often as possible and enforce the separate sentence for it vs the central crime.
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Re: Gun Control
What liberal you know scoffs at increased enforcement of gun control laws? Every liberal I know including myself wants more restrictions and more enforcement of existing laws.bigredmed wrote:
As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.
I do know a few conservatives who scoff at gun control laws.
Re: Gun Control
Yeah I was going to say, I think he has that backwards.Dundeemaha wrote:What liberal you know scoffs at increased enforcement of gun control laws? Every liberal I know including myself wants more restrictions and more enforcement of existing laws.bigredmed wrote:
As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.
I do know a few conservatives who scoff at gun control laws.
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Re: Gun Control
Not more laws, more use of the ones we have.Dundeemaha wrote:What liberal you know scoffs at increased enforcement of gun control laws? Every liberal I know including myself wants more restrictions and more enforcement of existing laws.bigredmed wrote:
As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.
I do know a few conservatives who scoff at gun control laws.
Re: Gun Control
Yes enforce what we have,bigredmed wrote:Not more laws, more use of the ones we have.Dundeemaha wrote:What liberal you know scoffs at increased enforcement of gun control laws? Every liberal I know including myself wants more restrictions and more enforcement of existing laws.bigredmed wrote:
As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.
I do know a few conservatives who scoff at gun control laws.
Re: Gun Control
I'm somewhere left of center and spent my formative growing up years in Japan, which has almost no handguns and almost zero gun violence. Therefore, I personally don't understand the emotional attachment to guns and why so many people oppose efforts to ban semi-automatics and to make hand guns more difficult to acquire.
HOWEVER, before conservatives become angry at my views, I understand that it seems that the majority of people do not share my opinion. I recently saw a recent Gallop Poll that showed that 58% of Americans currently have a positive view of the NRA. It seems to me that most (a small, but real majority) Americans still do not want gun changes even though so many Americans are killed by gun violence. Therefore, I think that Democrats should not focus on this issue. It is a lost cause, at least for this generation.
HOWEVER, before conservatives become angry at my views, I understand that it seems that the majority of people do not share my opinion. I recently saw a recent Gallop Poll that showed that 58% of Americans currently have a positive view of the NRA. It seems to me that most (a small, but real majority) Americans still do not want gun changes even though so many Americans are killed by gun violence. Therefore, I think that Democrats should not focus on this issue. It is a lost cause, at least for this generation.
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Re: Gun Control
To ban something you have to pass 4th amendment restriction on laws being precise. When it comes to mechanical devices like guns, either you go Clinton and produce a narrowly drawn bill that ends up doing nothing or you write a bill so broad, you end up banning stuff you don't want to ban simply because they share common mechanical features.
This results in laws that under perform or overreach. Both fail ultimately. Underperforming laws get dumped. Overreaching laws get overturned. See Roe v Wade. Gun control and abortion are very similar. We accept that there are people who are sexually reckless and use abortion like a safety net and we also understand that other women getting them may well be in danger and getting one because they have no other option. To pass a law restraining repeat users from getting frequent flyer miles at the clinic will affect these other women who really need it for some reason. We could write a law making them illegal like the one RvW overturned, and the women who are in a horror show come to life will be even more screwed over. We could write a law that works around these people and we create enough loopholes that we end up letting the reckless people through.
Same with guns. I have guns. Several are 100years old or close to it. So far in their century of existence, they have harmed no one. To punish me and deny my civil right to hunt or shoot targets is overreaching. This never works.
This results in laws that under perform or overreach. Both fail ultimately. Underperforming laws get dumped. Overreaching laws get overturned. See Roe v Wade. Gun control and abortion are very similar. We accept that there are people who are sexually reckless and use abortion like a safety net and we also understand that other women getting them may well be in danger and getting one because they have no other option. To pass a law restraining repeat users from getting frequent flyer miles at the clinic will affect these other women who really need it for some reason. We could write a law making them illegal like the one RvW overturned, and the women who are in a horror show come to life will be even more screwed over. We could write a law that works around these people and we create enough loopholes that we end up letting the reckless people through.
Same with guns. I have guns. Several are 100years old or close to it. So far in their century of existence, they have harmed no one. To punish me and deny my civil right to hunt or shoot targets is overreaching. This never works.
Re: Gun Control
I did not propose that someone come take away your hunting guns, nor your antique guns. If I was "King of the world", I would still think that you should continue to own those guns in your collection. For that matter, I have not heard any proposals that would include taking away the guns that you own.
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Re: Gun Control
Hillary Clinton recently endorsed a plan to do an Australian gun buy back plan. They called it a buy back, but the Australians were banned from not selling them back to the government. So, the Gov sent the token price and you were forced to take it and surrender your gun or go to prison.Omaha1000 wrote:I did not propose that someone come take away your hunting guns, nor your antique guns. If I was "King of the world", I would still think that you should continue to own those guns in your collection. For that matter, I have not heard any proposals that would include taking away the guns that you own.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hil ... 6a900c5d67
Re: Gun Control
I signed up for PACER to try and find the sentencing opinion, but I'm waiting for an activation token to be mailed to me in 7-10 business days. That's government for you.
Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum
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Re: Gun Control
The NRA literally lobbies politicians to take away money from the ATF which is suppose to be enforcing the laws. They even literally wrote amendments into new laws that make it even harder for them to do anything. They literally had it written into law that the ATF chief had to be confirmed by the Senate, so for years they had no Chief because of currently political divide.bigredmed wrote:Not more laws, more use of the ones we have.Dundeemaha wrote:What liberal you know scoffs at increased enforcement of gun control laws? Every liberal I know including myself wants more restrictions and more enforcement of existing laws.bigredmed wrote:
As much as liberals scoff, enforcing the |expletive| out of these laws is a big step to getting guns away from criminals.
I do know a few conservatives who scoff at gun control laws.
I'm not anti guns at all, but I'm very anti NRA.
Re: Gun Control
I wonder if the Republicans/NRA would object to banning non-citizen's right to bear arms, such as Syrian refugees, or ISIS sympathizers. GOP seems to want to ban all Syrian refugees from entering the USA regardless.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
...and then they were gone.
Re: Gun Control
Leadership appointments for several agencies are subject to Senate confirmation. FBI and IRS directors to name two others. I doubt the ATF appointment provision was something shoehorned in by the NRA.
Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum
Re: Gun Control
A little research shows that is probably how it happened.jessep28 wrote: I doubt the ATF appointment provision was something shoehorned in by the NRA.
Re: Gun Control
There are over 1,000 federal government positions which are subject to presidential nomination and Senate confirmation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... nfirmation.Uffda wrote:A little research shows that is probably how it happened.jessep28 wrote: I doubt the ATF appointment provision was something shoehorned in by the NRA.
It would be ludicrous to have the appointment of the Deputy Under Secretary for Logistics and Materiel Readiness subject to Senate approval, but not the director of a major federal law enforcement agency.
Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum
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Re: Gun Control
First Gun related deaths in the US are greatly exaggerated by including suicide numbers and then gun control activists try to use this larger number to create the gun panic to promote their agenda.
Just looked it up. Suicide is the reason for 60% of all US Gun Deaths. If stopping suicide is a valid reason to restrict guns that is a separate discussion than "Bad Guys with Guns".
The actual perpetrators and victims of the vast majority of American gun crime were identified earlier in this thread but the whole topic was ignored. Despite there being more guns in the US than people, somewhere north of 80% of gun homicides are committed by people connected with criminal drug gangs and huge numbers of the victims are as well. Legalization of some drugs to cut off funding to the gangs and vigorous criminal conspiracy prosecution could dramatically reduce gun crime.
Just looked it up. Suicide is the reason for 60% of all US Gun Deaths. If stopping suicide is a valid reason to restrict guns that is a separate discussion than "Bad Guys with Guns".
The actual perpetrators and victims of the vast majority of American gun crime were identified earlier in this thread but the whole topic was ignored. Despite there being more guns in the US than people, somewhere north of 80% of gun homicides are committed by people connected with criminal drug gangs and huge numbers of the victims are as well. Legalization of some drugs to cut off funding to the gangs and vigorous criminal conspiracy prosecution could dramatically reduce gun crime.
Re: Gun Control
I didn't say that the person shouldn't be confirmed. I was commenting on the NRA involvement.jessep28 wrote:There are over 1,000 federal government positions which are subject to presidential nomination and Senate confirmation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... nfirmation.Uffda wrote:A little research shows that is probably how it happened.jessep28 wrote: I doubt the ATF appointment provision was something shoehorned in by the NRA.
It would be ludicrous to have the appointment of the Deputy Under Secretary for Logistics and Materiel Readiness subject to Senate approval, but not the director of a major federal law enforcement agency.